I dont think my authority comes from an especially arrogant place. It is often negotiable, if they negotiate respectfully. My kids know I dont feel I know everything, or that my was is the only way. Just this afternoon, dh and I were laying a firm boundary for dd16, who wants to go to an "after ball party" on Saturday, after a long awaited ball she has helped to plan, for Venturers. The "after party" begins at 12.30am! So....we said no, and she was very upset for a while because for some reason she had her heart set on it. We told her it was too late for us to be out at night driving, that we understood other parents said yes but not every parent would, that we werent happy with her being driven from the ball to the party by a teenager, and that she had chosen to get in with a bunch of friends who were generally older than her and when she was older sh ewoudl have more freedom too. And we told her we loved her to bits, that we didnt say no without consideration, and that one day when she has kids she may well understand why we woudl say no. She calmed down and after some time in her room grieving, she came out and thanked us for allowing her to go to the party she is going to tonight. So....we really try to be reasonable and to help the kids realise we are human and we dont make decisions arbritarily or because we want to make their lives miserable. It doesn't always work, and sometimes especially our son is quite obnoxious and just wants what he wants and wont see reason..so we end up having to stop justifying and being reasonable, and just lay down the law, black and white, for him. I also dotn feel we have a huge generation gap. I talk freely and openly with my kids about issues I have with various things. I dont play the authoritarian parent much- quite the opposite. Dh is more authoritarian but probably not even as much as my parents were, and they were fairly laissez faire. Times have changed....most parents I know are fairly reasonable- probably too reasonable, really.

I enjoy Susan Wise Bauer's writing because it doesn't try to baffle me with unecessary big words and complex language- it communicates, clearly and effectively, and simply, without being simplistic. Writing is about communicating, not impressing the reader with your brilliance, even if you are brilliant. I like simple, clear language, and I dont like waffle (except perhaps in things like Walden Pond type books where the whole book is kind of waffle in a way, but I happen to enjoy that particular waffle). I remember reading Climbing Parnassus and being so impressed that I could barely understand what he was saying unless I focused really, really hard, and I felt in awe of him....and then later realising that it is pure arrogance to write like that, and so unecessary, although "impressive". I am sure he would say that is exactly why more people should study Latin and Greek, but I have read many books written in the 19th century, and most were easier to understand than Tracy Simmons!

Most of the year, i exercise first thing in teh morning, before school. It is hot where I live and too hot to exercise any other time but first thing. However, it is winter now and a much colder winter than normal. I am exercising either not at all, or later in the day- often at sunset.

No, I don't teach my kids to follow authority blindly and without question- in this day and age I don't feel that is appropriate I try to teach them to be intelligent and when appropriate, to follow their gut feeling. I think basic intelligence and an alert and open mind is sufficient. One follows the rules at Scouts unless one wishes to suffer the consequences of not following the rules- same on the roads and at home. If one finds a rule stupid, inconvenient or unwise...one considers the consequences of not following it, and then chooses a pathway. Most of teh time, following the rules is just easiest and most appropriate. But if my kids can give me a valid reason for breaking a rule, (such as at home) I will accept it. I don't just say "they are the rules no matter what" if they can prove to me the rule is sometimes stupid. I don't follow all rules blindly. There is a mall nearby that has a turn right only exit, and I always turn left there because I think it is a stupid and inconvenient rule, and I am hurting no one by turning left safely. I notice many other cars doing the same. Hopefully one day they will change the rule. I walk my dog in a no dog area after hours when the ranger wont be on duty. I pick up after my dog. I speed sometimes. I think blind trust for authority and rules is not appropriate and it is how we as a society are controlled and manipulated by big business and vested interests. Think all the people who listen to the medical profession as if they are God, without checking for themselves. Think all the people who accept bank rulings even when the bank made a mistake. IN Australia, our prime minister is not revered..he or she is just an ordinary person and they are not generally hugely charismatic people that we look up to particularly. I really think the time for trusting authority just because they are considered authority, is past. Yes, there is a certain convenience in following most rules. I teach my kids to accept the consequences, and do what they feel is right or best. Most of the time that is just goign to be to follow the rules. My son does not accept that his Scout leader, a very dominating and sometimes bullying woman, deserves his respect. He does not respect her authority, because of how she treats him and others. She abuses her authority. But he generally will follow the rules anyway, and every now and then he wont just to be a rebellious teen who wont be controlled. I don't usually support his rebellion because it is often immature, and I cop it a lot at home, but I do respect his independent spirit and don't wish to break his spirit in the name of obeying authorities who behave ridiculously.

My maternal grandparents were both teachers (and both are still alive at 90 and 95). When my grandmother still had her marbles, she thought it was great that I was homeschooling my son, because she recognised his learning difficulties- and she gave me good advice too. But she was very concerned about my bright dd and for quite a while, whenever I saw her, she would ask me" when is Gen going to highschool? " over and over, as if this homeschooling thing was ok up to a point, but I couldnt even be considering it for highschool (which is year 8 where I live). But she repeated herself because she was at the beginning of her Alzheimers back then and probably never remembered my answers- which were that she wasnt going to highschool. Over and over. Grandad- they are divorced- checked on my kids a few years back by asking them a few maths questions and asked who Helen Keller was (phew, we had just read a book on her!) and seemed pretty satisfied they were ok. Hes a character at 95- 93 back then- and he gave them $20 bucks each and that was that! I certinaly didnt get any lecture of bad vibes. My teacher neighbour did tell me highschool kids needed the socialisation of school, so I didnt discuss homeschooling with him again! My dad is/was a PhD university lecturer...he's just proud of me for homeschooling and wanted me to know it recently so he wrote me a letter. He has cancer and I tihnk he just really wanted me to have on paper how proud he is of me...he is not generally an expressive person at all. Basically, the way I communicate doesn't usually leave me open to people's opinions- I dont actually invite them or in any way suggest I am asking for their approval. So I rarely get negative comments.

:iagree: Melissa. I would rather bring up the babe myself than have it adopted. Family bonds are strong and the babe would not be destitute. If my dd couldnt cope- or ds for that matter- I would step in and support up to 100% until they could. Even if they could step up to the plate by the time the child was older, it would be better for the child than being adopted. But I guess not everyone has the loving granma option. I am surprised by all the adoption talk...I think it is a cultural thing because adoption within Australia is so, so rare, possibly because our social security is so good for single mothers. I dont mean to offend those who have adopted, but it is not something I would actively encourage.

I was a pregnant teen too- one who was encouraged rather strongly- as in, I didn't feel I had a choice- to abort. I would not do that to my dd, even though I am pro choice. I dont think I would freak out. I think I would freak out more if my ds got a girl pregnant because he is just a different personality and I wouldnt trust him to be responsible. But dd16? I would be concerned for her emotional health because of the relationship with the guy, more than anything. I wouldnt be particularly concerned for the baby because dh and I would support as much as necessary (if it did happen at 16, I imagine she would stay here and we would go through it together, helping her continue her education and prepare for independent life). 19? I would consider her an adult and just support as needed. Dd16 dates and has a relatively normal but probably more protected than normal life with plenty of guy friends and girl friends. She has had a serious relationship where the guy was way more serious than she was ready for, and she left him because of that. She is grounded and sensible and has generalyl good self confidence and good self esteem- and a good relationship with her father. I don't have the moral issues many of you have. I wouldnt see myself as a failure, or that sin was involved or any of that stuff. I would be concerned for her in a motherly way. But in the end...whether one has babies early or later, they are always a blessing, and having them earlier has its advantages. I would try to see the cup half full. Dd herself would have the consequences upon her for her whole life, so she doesnt need me coming down on her as well.

Planning is the fun part! It all looks so good on paper!

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: A counsellor shouldnt just be able to give advice. They should be able to help you just unload, to speak what is happening, and to support you in that, as long as you need it. Anyway, this thread has really touched me to tears. I can hardly imagine how hard it would be.

jld, I admire your honesty and I think it can be good to share things like that because many of us have little corners of shame around issues like this. Until I read about not serving dinner, I was just thinking to share that I try to find a balance, and that balance is goign to be different for everyone. If I dont get an afternoon rest, chances are it is a do- it -yourself dinner. Although I am better than I used to be in that area. My kids are getting older. Balance. Take care of yourself. If you are exhausted, cut yourself some slack. On the other hand...about 6 or 7 years ago I read some books by a woman who I hope someone here knows the name of. She is kind of an anti feminist, very opinionated, and has a talk back radio show. Maybe Laura someone? Cant remember. She kicked my butt big time about my attitude toward my dh, and how my feminist mother and societal conditioning kind of brainwashed me into thinking dh needed to make all the money AND do his half of the housework etc. In other words, I realised I was expecting him to do more than his share, got resentful if he complained, and basically, didnt have a very loving attitude toward to the whole marital work balance. I took the work he did and money he brought in for granted. I saw I was being selfish and I did change. I had started hoemschooling, and I didnt have littlies any more, but my attitude wasnt healthy. I started making regular meals and cleaning up without feeling resentful. I stopped thinking taking care of my (2) kids equalled dh working hard to support us, and that we should then share everything else. The biggest light bulb fo rme was realising a marriage doesnt take two people giveing 50/50, or 60/40. It takes two people giving 100%, and not counting. I found the Flylady system around the same time. I realized I had stinking thinking and I cleaned it up. But in the end...I did it for me, not for anyone else. I did it because I recognised it was wrong- my integrity around it changed and I could no longer be the person I was. And I found joy in cleaning and cooking, wheras before I found it such a chore I avoided it. So, if you feel that perhaps you are having a realisation that you are actually selfish, good on you. Not that I think selfishness is always a bad thing- we do need to take care of ourselves- but there is a line, and maybe you have realised you go too far. But can you serve your dh with love, happily, or is it just out of guilt? Or maybe try it and see how it feels? Sometimes practice makes perfect. Sometime a bit of extra giving can energise me, too, rather than deplete me. In the end, only you know. But I do love to serve my family. And .....no, I dont "play" with my kids, except in the sense of verbally mucking around and joking.

Lol Rosie, Capricorns have a wicked sense of humour to make up for their rather practical natures. And you must have a sense of my dh by now through various SCA things (actually I shoudl get him to friend you on Facebook)- he is anything but boring. :)

Of course. ETA, it is natural to me, even though my parents didnt apologise to me. However, it has not come naturally to dh at all, and the kids really notice. He does apologise sometimes but no where near enough (according to my opinion :) ) . But that is relaly to anyone, not just the kids. I have trained him to apologise to me, though :) I think it is an old school mentality that says parents always know best and are infallible. Times have changed. Everyone (around here anyway) seems to think that its a bad thing that times change, but I think most parents I know are much more likely to apologise for losing their temper than their parents' generation, and I cant see how thats a bad thing. The "generation gap " seems less rigid than previously, and I too think that is generalyl a good thing. Particularly since many older people really can behave most immaturely and that behaviour should not be revered. Whether it has anything to do with the divorce rate, I dont know, because I think people are more willing to apologise now than in the past, in my experience.

My perspective may be unpopular, but I am going to say it anyway. The divorce rate is a sign of the times and yes, it reflects, to some extent- and I wont guess how much- a population of people who are focused on the wrong things, who cant cope with bad times, who dont understand the long term seasons of marriage, who want what they want and want it now...all of that, I agree. In other words, a lot of immaturity. However, I also think it represents a culture where: It is no longer necessary to stay in a relationship where one partner is being abused. It is no longer necessary for a woman to stay with a man, no matter how loveless the marriage is, for financial reasons. And mostly....there are a lot of us for whom marriage is a spiritual relationship and the sharing of emotional growth, maturity and deepening love is a pre requisite for staying in the marriage, not just entering it. In other words, people arent going to waste their lives with someone with whom they no longer have much in common or dont get along with any more, and where there is no, or very little, love left. It is very difficult to stay in a relationship where one partner is growing and maturing and blossoming, and the other just watches TV all day. I am not saying it is impossible, and I am all for giving it a really, realyl good go...but I personally feel grateful for being able to "move on" from unhealthy relationships form my earlier life. For those who have been with one partner their whole adult life, and who are still with them, and for whom that relationship is still alive and full of underlying love and respect....it might be hard to imagine how many peopel are in situations where that is NOT the case, no matter how hard ONE of the partners tries. So I dont think the divorce rate reflects only people who gave up too easily. It also reflects many, many unique situations that, if you only walked in their shoes, you would help them leave their unhealthy situaitons and move on to something better. I think there are a lot more of those situaitons than people realise.

Worrying about what other people think is the wrong direction. It never matters. Just love your dd and her baby unconditionally, and without judgement. Its that what real Christianity is about anyway? Its not your job to judge her. Stay open and soft and teachable, and support your dd without taking away her responsibility for the consequences of her choices. You are not repsonsible, she is. I think it would be terrible to be "supported" by parents who judge me and feel terrible about the whole situaiton, wringing their hands in angst over what they did wrong, subtly and not so subtly reminding me frequently of my guilt and sin. Ugh. A new baby doesnt need to come into a situation like that. It needs acceptance and love, and so does the mother. And so do you.

I LOVE this idea. I think I will try it with BOTH my kids. They will think its really silly- all the better ! :lol: I can so relate to this. I did think that homeschooling my kids would mean we could go to the beach and the park and the movies while all the other kids were at school, and instead I turned into this classical homeschooling nut who stays home being the drill sergeant week in week out! Overall though, we have done a lot of driving to and fro activities and that is where we have had a lot of bonding time. One thing I do is listen to their music in the car and let them tell me about it. They even like picking songs on their ipod they think I will like- and I often do. I am not a girly girl, and my hair takes 2 minutes of my time daily...but my dd16 has golden ringlets. I borrowed the Curly Girl book from the library and we read it together and I helped her learn how to take care of her hair. She has a great fashion sense- in her own quirky way- so I dont buy her clothes anymore without her around- but I do take her shopping for them sometimes. We also go op shopping together, which she loves. I tell the kids stories from my past either in the car or when we do our daily together work and they just come up. Generally when they are a captive audience :) My dd and I are similar in some ways but quite different in others. She is a social extrovert and I am an introvert. So I have had to make a lot of allowances to accomodate her need to socialise. We all spend a fair amount of time on our computers around here, especially in the evening. Before I go to bed I make sure I give the kids a hug (well, my son wont let me at the moment, but dd loves it) and a kiss, to connect, because computer world, even if we are sitting in the same room, can be rather isolating. And when they wake up in the morning, I welcome them warmly and ask how they slept, ask if they had any dreams they remember, and basically connect with them. I think connecting can be by finding a common interest, but it can also be physical- just touching, giving a hug...it can be sitting at the table a bit longer than normal to ask them how they are doing in some area of their lives...or to finish a conversation...it can be looking them in the eyes for a few seconds, consciously, to connect. No matter how clumsily I sometimes make efforts to connect with my kids (for me it is more my son than my daughter because we are "easy" together) I feel that keeping my sense of humour and laughing at myself a lot, and even making fun of my own desire to connect, helps me "just do it" instead of being so self conscious that I dont. My son knows I love to give him a big hug- he is now taller than me- and he loves the power of not letting me hug him anymore (he was very affectionate when younger)- but sometimes he does let me and I tell him how lucky I am that my great big grown up son still lets me hug him sometimes. I try to muck around and play and tease. I find they are generally gracious, and if not, well, I try again later. I am not the sort of mum who will do pedicures either, but I will ooh and ah over my dd16's new bright red painted nails or new outfit. I try to just be myself with her, without trying to be something I am not, and find ways to connect that are natural for us both.

Thanks everyone for your great ideas, I really appreciate it. Colleen- I want to get one month ahead, too- we have a similar situation to you with self employment and erratic income. We can actually do it...but it will involve taking some money out of savings...and also some huge trust on dh's part, I think, to hand it over. I might have to earn that trust first :)

I've seen blogs where people workbox with things like that. It would be good if you didnt have a lot of space. I however would find that they don't hold enough. One of the benefits of workboxing to me is being able to fit everything needed for that subject/activity into the box (or in our case, drawer), so that we are not trying to find extras needed that are "somewhere nearby".

Thanks...looks great...after doing some research it seems it doesnt at this stage connect with Aussie institutions. I guess that will be aproblem with most programs which ocnnect with your bank accounts. Oh well.

Never seen an inappropriate app here. I guess you would have to look for them. He does download free ones himself- we use WiFi- but paid ones need my permission. There are so many fun and appropriate apps, I wouldnt worry about the inappropriate ones.

Your post reminded me of something I read on some financial forums yesterday. The hardest part of budgeting for many of us is actually being able to leave the money to sit there until its destined job is fulfilled. So if you want to save for a bill, you have to let the money sit there, adding to it, until the bill comes up. For many of us, having money "just sitting there" is tricky. We live from pay check to paycheck so to speak and every cent just disappears. But it seems you can do it by not accessing money right away. Mm, I seem to remember you are a Capricorn? So is my husband. He can let it sit there too, to a certain extent. Jolly practical people.

I am a morning person and love to get up before everyone else. But going to bed/sleep by 10pm probably has something to do with it. Chronic tiredness is so widespread we think it is normal. I think everyone is wired differently but really, it does take some discipline for me to go to bed at a reasonable hour. But the pay off on the rest of my life is enormous so it is worth it.

Foreign language (modern). Highschool level Science. (which we already did). Art (which we already did). Music (which we already did).

Hi Rosie, its not really that our finances are a mess, its that they are messy. We are not in a hole, we are not in debt except for mortgages, but there are SO many things to consider all the time. Traditionally, dh has held his income and passes me/deposits the exact amount needed to pay bills online. I have my own income stream which covers homeschooling, general kid stuff, and personal stuff. So I dont have to ask him for money, which I didnt enjoy :) But I pay all the bills, and he handles large amounts of the money, and even though he is very intuitive...we are a little too out of touch with each other's income and outgoings to be doing it this way when we are at a point where incomings are barely covering outgoings. We need more accountability. I probably also need to sacrifice my own "blow" money- money I have traditionally had to spend on books etc- to the greater good at this stage. sniff sniff. In reality, we dont HAVE *excess* cash, because it should all be going into "envelopes" or whatever to cover future upcoming bills- But it isnt. THats what needs to change, so we can really see where it needs to go, rather than it all floating around in our heads somewhere. Its not simple enough to have floating around in our heads. Too many variables, too many incomes from various sources, at different times of the month, and outgoings including business costs. That's what I meant by messy. We could however be 'in a mess' shortly if we dont do something now!

Thanks Rosie, sounds like a good system. We have so much mess with rental properties, mortgages, rent, and several business running at once, that it all gets a bit complicated. And because we dont really keep track, it's easy...too easy...to spend what seems like excess cash but really isn't. Or shouldn't be. Somehow as the years have gone by, things have got more complicated...I remember when they were much simpler! I am going to need to write it ALL down for a while to see where the leaks are.

Thanks, Jennifer. I talked to dh briefly this morning. He was so relieved that I decided not to use a credit card anymore, he immediately said now he felt safe handing over all the money to me. Its been hard with us both doing our own areas and I didnt see how this would work but one step at a time. He expressed that he has always bene concerned about my cc useage (he barely uses it at all) and he is happy to support my new "thing", which is DR. OK, so you use Excel plus envelopes. I think envelopes plus a few different bank accounts (for long term savings) is what will work for us. Great, thanks Laura. It is similar to what i have already done...I am wondering if I am really going to be better off just using a notebook/printed worksheets myself, rather than a computer program. Thanks RWJ- I have been using those forms this weekend and its a good start. I will check out Quicken and Crown Financial, thanks Dorinda. The YNAB program gets a good reputation for being better than those, but is going to cost me a bit. Hence the research first. I know we are each quirky about what works best for us- thanks for sharing what works for you. I am pretty sure I will spend less with cash than anything else, but we will see. The Gazelle program is when you sign up for the monthly access to DR style budgeting system online- it is called the Gazelle program. I dont like the idea of paying a monthyl fee to use a program, though. Thanks Joanne- I am a newby to the system (and will soon tweak it I am sure) and what you are saying makes sense, and I am sure it is what we would naturally do under the circumstances too. Using the assets that cost the least to fund the debt snowball is obviously common sense. I guess the point is to make sure the debt snowball is actualyl going to happen and happening, rather than procrastinating..and from reading th stories, many people have done radical things including selling their house/cars etc to get out of crushing debt, and good on them. Talking with dh this morning has made me realise that although I have felt we werent doing what everyone else does, which from my position looked like everyone else was doing better than us because we rent.....we also haven't gone into massive debt, or any at all really (apart from small cc debt which I am finishing with today by using savings.) Basically a mortgage would have stretched us more than we can afford (we have 2 investment properties though). I realise dh is a smart cookie never using debt and always using cash, except for our rental properties. I didn't appreciate it so much before (but he has also been bankrupt before after being a a millionaire, so I guess he should know something! "bout time I gave him some credit!) . The whole DR thing is really a wake up call for *me* and also gives me a sense of direction, which dh is agreeing with. Anyone elee want to share their budgeting secrets?