Hula Hoop Giga Ball (very fun!) Hippity Hop Stilts--yes Pogo stick Picnic table

Stomp Rockets. Yes, they go to the neighbor yard sometimes. They go get them :) Soccer ball. Baseball/gloves Nerf football-- yes, even girls play. Lacrosse stuff Tetherball Rebounder net for times when just one kid wants to play ball. Bug vacuum Sandbox Nerf arsenal (swords/guns/crossbow/you name it) Sidewalk chalk Hyper dash Hopscotch equipment Water guns (warmer weather)/water balloons Things to build obstacle courses Badminton Bocce Kubbe Croquet Remote control planes, kites

Do you get any other swim practice time with your daughter other than swim lessons? My son was terrified to jump in (to put it mildly) for his physical therapy sessions, and this is how we eased him into it: Stage 1: have him sit on his fanny on the pool deck, I put my hands under his armpits and spring him into the water (no face wet). Big hug! Yay! Stage 2: Stand on edge of deck, toes over edge. Grab my hands (I am in pool). Jump out away from deck, while I hold hands, no face in water. Big hug. YAY! Stage 3: Stand on edge of deck, toes at edge. I am close to edge, but far enough away to encourage him to jump away from edge of pool. I catch him under armpits as he enters water. Still no face wet. Big hug. YAY! Stage 4: Like 3, but I catch him a little lower down in the water. Big Hug. YAY! Stage 5: I stand farther away. He has to land in water unassisted, but then I grab him right away. Face might get wet. Big hug. YAY! Stage 6: I stand about the same place. He lands in water unassisted, has to grab ME (don't wear a bikini unless you are in a really private pool). Face will get wet. Big Hug! YAY!! Go out for ice cream. Stage 7: Stand farther away. Jump in, has to paddle 2 or 3 strokes to reach you. Big Hug! YAY!! Brag about performance at dinner table. Your kid's performance too. My formerly screamed like he was being axe-murdered kid is now working on his breast stroke and swim team dives, despite fighting motor apraxia and other issues, and loves to play in the pool. The above took him months, not days. It takes other kids minutes. Your kid will work on her own time table.

I have never seen "grout" (implied with anything ceramic) and "easy to clean" used in a sentence together without hilarious laughter involved. Grout sealer has always been a joke. If it has nooks and crannies in a bathroom, there is NOTHING easy to clean about it! I have a 20+ year old fiberglass shower, and yes, the three-layer aluminum track door is something I cannot wait to replace but the fiberglass itself-- nice smooth surface, no cracks or sharp nooks and crannies, is easy-peasy to clean. I have a green pad on a telescoping handle, a bottle of Soft Scrub, and a big plastic cup for rinse water (we have a fixed shower head). After my shower, on a periodic basis, I just squirt some Soft Scrub onto the green pad on the telescoping pole (no reaching up, no bending over) and the pole provides the leverage for scrubbing power across the surface of the pad-- I don't have to push very hard at all. I can scrub the insides of the glass doors and the other three walls of the shower, floor to ceiling in about three minutes flat. Use the cup to rinse clean (always start at the top, then re-rinse at waist level again so you don't get any residue). Then step out of shower, scrub the floor, and rinse again and done. Whole process takes maybe five to six minutes, no reaching, no bending, no sore shoulders, even for somebody like me with spinal cord issues, squeaky clean shower-- you can run your fingers over it and no grit. We did try the daily spray thing-- it smelled really bad and chemical-ish, and didn't help very much. Squeegee-ing the shower after showering does help keep it a bit cleaner longer and only takes seconds.

What fun!! We really enjoyed our butterflies :D

This is O/T, does not in any way exonerate Sandusky, whom I agree was a complete monster, is likely even more guilty than the jury found him, deserves his essentially life sentence, and is nitpicky. I'm sorry for being nitpicky. But statements like the above continue to irk me. McQueary specifically testified that he did NOT specifically see a rape. He said he expected to see sexual activity, and was surprised that he did not. He heard sounds, and that triggered and image in his mind, and thought that what he did see was inappropriate. He testified that the child did not even appear frightened at the time, and that he only had one or two quick glances, but that he definitely did not see any actual sexual activity. Because of the additional issues continuing to affect PSU, it bugs me to see misinformation being perpetuated. We don't know-- McQueary may have walked in on a "grooming session" with the boy, or yes, worse. But what was specifically taking place there is not known, and McQueary did not testify that he walked in on a rape in any of his versions of what took place. Returning to what is otherwise a very good, and I think important, discussion.

In that case, it indicates some type of asynchronous development, and qualified neuropsych testing is worthwhile. He could potentially be "Twice exceptional" and very frustrated-- very bright, with with some type of roadblock getting in the way of his performance, and a good evaluator will be able to tease out what is working for him, and what is challenging him. (for example, both of my kids are gifted, but my younger one has challeges such as dysgraphia, audio processing disorder, executive function problems, and so on; these made it hard for him to get what he knew onto paper, and the school had him in remedial classes, because he could not complete even simple worksheets, despite the fact that he was dreadfully bored). Your son will have a different constellation of gifts and roadblocks, from the sounds of it, and understanding where he needs support and chances to dive in deeper would probably be met with a lot of relief on his part-- and over time, probably relieve his feelings of negativity. Make sure you find someone who will use a fairly extensive battery of tests and really dig through subtest scores, not just the main cluster scores of one or two tests. The "big picture" that falls out of the details can be really illuminating in the hands of a really good evaluator, and really point the way toward liberating your son. Best of luck to you!

I'm confused by your son's comment about filling in bubbles... MAP is a computer adaptive test that changes the difficulty of the questions in real time to adjust to how the student is responding; it is not a paper-based bubble sheet test. The two of you may not be discussing the same test. That aside, I wouldn't worry over the test scores too much. Just as on the Stanford or ITBS, scoring at 10th/11th grade does not mean he is ready for 10th or 11th grade work, but it does confirm your gut feelings-- he has probably been bored in school. My kiddo was in the same boat when I pulled him out in 4th grade. I would both be prepared with good enrichment materials (you don't need to toss him into high school history, but if you study ancients and he finds he loves mythology and stories, read Colum's Homer with him, D'Aulaire's Greek Myths, a Gilgamesh story, some version of The Aeneid, such as Lively's "In Search of A Homeland," and so on as he studies the ancients. Or let him research Alexander and other military minds if that s his thing, or start learning Latin) AND watch for gaps in his abilities. He might struggle with grammar or writing or fractions or baseball or art. Let him have some fun getting started. Every Friday in science my kids have to present something they have researched on their own; it can be anything however peripherally mentioned in that week's study that they just HAD to know more about. So far they like the flexibility to have time to read about something they wanted to learn more about, then teach it back to us :) Have fun teaching your son, and good luck!

Agree with all of the above. Also realize that CAPD, ADD and IQ are not related. You can be intelligent and have CAPD and all the other combinations. Teasing out all those components at your daughter's age is extremely difficult; choose your evaluator carefully.

Generally function must be x months behind normal or y % below typical to qualify for state paid services. They can be quite helpful. If you disagree with the assessor, document any observations made you felt were inaccurate for purposes of an appeal, but most really are trying to help. Our first assessor completely missed the mark, but that experience is not the norm, and the decision was later reversed.

:iagree: We played vintage Battleship at the Chatterbox Cafe in St. Paul, MN when we lived in MN for four months (loved that place!). DS put that game down as his only request for Christmas. We have been disappointed with every version we have been able o locate-- weird shapes, hard to read grids, pegs that fall out, versions that require batteries... Ugh!

Sandusky is 68 and has a host of medical problems, and is a high profile child predator entering the prison system, soon to no longer be in solitary, and not eligible or early release. You can't really keep him much longer than dead, which I am sure he will be in prison, with a minimum 30 year sentence. This is not a guy who will be setting world records for longevity.

I agree with Bill on this aspect... in places, the workbook is not mere drill, but the problems build sequentially from point A to point B, where the earlier problems teach methods for the more difficult problems. This is why I do still buy the workbooks, even if we use mostly the IP books; if he gets stuck, he can backtrack and walk on up the ladder. Halfway through 4B I still have not seen any conceptual leaps... If anything, it feels like stuff is explained half to death. Really, the problem sequence instruction is very AoPS-like, with very few if any leaps at all if you really pay attention to what they are showing you. This is likely why RR has recommended Singapore in the past. But back to how all this applies to Sonja and her situation... Given the level of math her daughter is doing and at what age, it does not sound to me as if DD needs a program that spoon feeds each micro step. I suspect Sonja is also quite capable of providing mathematical background help as needed. I think given the implied mathematical ability from the description, the text + IP book is a very reasonable way to go. You can always backtrack to the workbook if needed.

I would say that although we focus on one topic per year, we actually appreciate an integrated approach, and we don't necessarily follow the WTM sequence; remember, 4 year cycle does not equate to classical; it is simply one author's method of implementing classical! You can study classically very well without a four-year cycle. Now that we are into biology, I am very glad we covered chemistry first; ATP, processing doe by chloroplasts, DNA, lipid rafts, proteins, the role of RNA and enzymes, and other key ideas make far more sense to my kids with a year of chem under their belts. The musculoskeletal system nearer to the end of the year, the movement of blood through veins, vision, and other topics will provide a nice early glimpse of some physics this time around, and practical physics application next time around. Chem was applied concurrently to geology and used to review some earth and space science, and physics will absolutely review those topics in some detail as well, along with some bio (effects of the space station on astronaut bodies? Growing foods in zero-G?) Throughout the year, my kids will also just watch Neil DeGrasse Tyson videos and read random science books and current magazines in any discipline for fun, outside of schoolwork, though I would not call science a passion for either of them at this age. I selected the four year cycle as the "best answer" of those presented, but my real answer is far more nuanced.

::::waving::: Hi Sonja :) I think you should give the IP book instead of workbook a try in your situation. The problems start out easily enough, which should give her a confidence boost, and then lead up to the more difficult problems for a challenge. The IP book problems are also far more interesting than the workbook problems. For my 9YO, I find I more and more often am skimming over the workbook and going to the IP book, particularly as we get up into more levels-- currently 4B. We are into the decimals chapter, and he is looking at it and saying, "Well . . . since I've already done money, haven't I already done decimals???" Yes, son, you have. Off to the IP book we go. We don't have the want-to-do-every-problem issue. If we had that to deal with while doing the workbook as well as IP, we'd never finish a section. We also use the US Edition, and you know who his Daddy is :) We like it just fine :). You can always get the workbook later if you feel something is lacking, yes? I vote for give it a shot. The text has additional problems and reviews already . . .I doubt you will be lacking for problems, and there is always Khan Academy.

I forgot to mention that one thing I *did* do with my son was not ignore the issue. I did correct his errors as he made them, and made him (patiently, gently) rewrite things correctly. It took a lot of time and a lot of patience-- well over a year of rewriting 13 as 13 instead of 31. Reminding him to say no instead of on, and to write it that was as well. Pointing out that a backwards 2 could kind of look like a 5, and that 13 and 31 are not the same number, so that yes, it did matter, I was not just being picky. We used a system-- if I found a reversal (incluing hting instead of thing or a backwards 'p') I would put a green felt-marker "dot" under each thing that needed to be corrected, and hand it back to him. Sometimes, there were quite a few. If he wanted me to grade his paper with those items as correct, he had to fix all of those errors before starting his regular assignments the next day (when still in public school, I checked his homework for them and did this too; for him, it was a chance to make things right; it was also communication between myself, the teacher, and the special ed staff regarding how many errors he was continuing to make, because they saw a correct paper, but they also had a record of how many green dots were on the homework). The reinforcement seemed to help quite a bit over time. We never made it about making him feel badly about himself. Again, I was convinced he had dyslexia, and I would never try to dissuade a parent with concerns out of getting something checked out (I am a big proponent of "follow the Mommy gut"). But I was wrong; there is no dyslexia, no need for vision therapy. It turns out that it really was normal for his age, and he is now a voracious reader, and is learning to manage his dysgraphia without making the reversals of digits or blends or making letters backwards. But normal or not, I do not regret correcting him and helping him to work on it.

I hear your concerns, and I am admittedly unfamiliar with BF. I avoided the SOTW activity guide-- I spent a few hours sitting in Barnes and Noble leafing through it, and just thought, "I can see this for some kids, maybe, but not for mine." I'm also a tweaker-- I feel completely free to leave out something in any program that doesn't work for me, and to add in what does work for me, at any time. So what works well for me, may well not work for another family simply because our styles are different, and what turns on my kids could be different from what excites other kids.

For what it's worth, my DS did this same thing when he was still in public school as a second grader. I was fighting for his IEP for other reasons than this, but I was worried about dyslexia (there were other indicators too, I thought) and they told me over and over, even at the good school we visited for four months, "No, not yet." I worked with him at home with Handwriting Without Tears, and hung in there with him. He is now in fourth grade. We still do HWT. He does have a formal dx of dysgraphia, but the neurologist says that is not behind the reversals he was making; they were normal for his age (even though there were QUITE a lot of them and I didn't see them on any other kids papers in his classroom). However, he no longer reverses his letters or numbers, and he reads just fine. Yes, he is still dysgraphic; he probably always will be and will have to rely on his OT training to be able to write well. But the reversals have resolved, and he is NOT dyslexic. He did find relief in learning to write cursive (it is harder to reverse in cursive) but he did get it. Just be patient-- and tell the relatives in whatever manner is appropriate for your relationship and situation to kindly shut their traps and keep their unqualified opinions to themselves, as they are not nearly as clued in as they think they are. Try to remember that them complaining to you about this is THEIR problem, not your problem and definitely not your son's problem. Just because somebody not responsible for your son's education, however much they love your son, tells you there is a problem, does not mean there is a problem. Nobody can fault you for worrying (I certainly did, and I wasn't even homeschooling yet) and if there are additional indicators of a problem, a professional evaluation can even be in order. But in the homeschool world, beware of letting other people make their fears into your problems.

Science Explorer: I would call this the biology sequence: Book A: From Bacteria to Plants Book B: Animals Book C: Cells and Heredity Book D: Human Body and Health Book E: Environmental Science I am flying without the TE. There are so many different editions available I just shrugged :). There is a "test prep" section after each chapter in the student books, and you could easily just use those questions to create your own tests, or pull from the material in the books to make your own questions-- there are plenty of questions in the margins that highlight the most important takeaway ideas, essential vocabulary, and such. If somebody else has seen or used any of the TE's, perhaps they can chime in here.

History Odyssey is wonderful, and I would call it literature based. Although there are only 3-5 books actually assigned directly in the curriculum for ancients, there is a list of additional literature you are encouraged to pull from at your discretion to enhance the reading about each section. My son will always have additional history reading going on in addition to the assigned materials, many of which are pulled from their selections. DS11's test scores place him at post-high-school, and I would concur with that assessment; I would call him a strong reader. I don't get a workbooky feel from HO. It does begin gently, as it is aimed at the younger end of the logic stage group (each time period ramps up the work level a bit-- deeper outlines, literature interpretation guides and responses, more research writing and longer essays, etc). Although at first it may seem a bit simple or annoying... list these people and write one sentence about what each one did... these types of things are actually good note taking and study skills to develop. Reading about things is great, and should be heavily emphasized in history. History Odyssey accomplishes this goal beautifully. Discussing ideas and looking at different points of view in history is also of great value. By using varied materials (Kingfisher, TSOM, many of us add in K12 Human Odyssey, and a wealth of literature, plus the History magazines and library research) HO accomplishes this as well. I believe that including sequentially developed study, outlining, research, and writing skills makes History Odyssey a very well-developed program that can be used as-is or supplemented by the parent very easily. I am still baffled by the need for it, as it makes no sense to me, but apparently there was high enough demand that you can now even buy parent TM's for HO. Perhaps they have even more ideas for discussion and reading? Perhaps someone who has used them could chime in on that.

1. For each lesson, there are usually two sentences. It is fine to pick one of the two sentences and not do both. The instructions will often even say to pick the sentence of the more appropriate length for your child. 2. Don't ditch the copywork. I was sooooooo skeptical that 'copywork' sounded like something of a . . . (I am about to offend a great many people on this board) . . . carryover from right-wing fundamentalist gotta whop'em on the head and make'em miserable in order to prove that they're learning wingnuts (sorry, really, that wasn't nice, but it's how I felt at the time) that actually accomplished nothing. However, for whatever reason, I gave it a try, and despite my kids' complaining, I stuck with it. Guess what? It worked. I had one kid who has no diagnosed problems who nonetheless hated writing and despite being lightyears ahead of grade level in every other respect including reading, wrote about 4 grade levels below his ability, and one kid with professionally diagnosed dysgraphia and other language disorders. I started both in WWE 1 despite their ages (we accelerated it tremendously, 1 "week" per day) and they both enjoyed tremendous progress. DS11's writing today is night and day versus where he stood two years ago, as is DS 9's. 3. It is a slow, day by day process. Doing it, leaving it, coming back, leaving it . . . doesn't work so much. Sticking with it (think of it like practicing piano. You can't just do it once in a while and hope to make steady progress). If you stick with it, it really does work. 4. It really did work. I was really wrong. It did really work. It also wasn't nice of me to think of other people that way. The copywork also really did work. 5. Did you hear Diet Coke makes you repeat things?

I also vote Zenni. I ordered sports goggles or my son there that nobody else would make because of the prescription he has, and they are wonderful. So then I ordered myself Rx sunglasses and again, perfection, cheap. Now my husband and I have regular glasses on order. $12 for fantastic Rx glasses? I'm hooked.

Prentice Hall Science Explorer series is definitely secular, and they have many labs incorporated directly into the text (ie, demonstrate that muscles only pull, not push, by dissecting a chicken wing from the grocery store, all directions given right in the text). I have been teaching my kids from this this year for bio, and it is going really well; this series forms our "spine" to plan the year. I teach/we discuss on Monday to introduce the week's topic; Tuesday the each have an assigned reading from which they take some notes or outline. Wednesday is lab day and we go berzerk designing experiments and practicing lab technique and having a lot of fun. Thursday they do extended reading (no notetaking) from additional sources on the topic of the week-- it could be websites, library books, additional books we have around the house, videos, finishing experiments. On Friday, (usually started by Wed or Thursday) they each pick some element of what we learned that week and read more about it, and put together some kind of presentation-- it could be a drawing, an outline, a chart, a powerpoint, any way they want to get some ideas across is fine. But by the end of school on Friday, they have to gather up the rest of us and "teach" us all about whatever it was that was interesting enough to them to learn more about on their own. For example, when we started out with classification, DS9 did an activity where he looked up different animals and traced down Kingdom>>>genus>species to see how closely related the animals he picked really were. He guessed first, then did the research to see how well he had guessed. In his research, he came across the poison dart frog. So, in our week learning about classification and the introduction to cells (cell membrane, cytoplasm, nucleus) he gave a presentation on the poison dart frog. DS11 could not wait to become an expert on cytoplasm, and ended up teaching us everything he learned about it. This week we are looking at Kingdoms Protista and Fungi. I can't wait to see what they show me on Friday :). There is a lot of good material to choose from there! I get lab materials to supplement the ideas in the Science Explorer books (there are 16 of them, but you can find them used for as little as $4 including shipping on Amazon-- $.01 plus shipping) from home science tools and kits like the Elenco Slide Making kit, Owl Pellets, the Sheep Brain and heart, cow eyeball, Magic School Bus World of Germs (sounds hinky, but it provided us with petri dishes, nutrient agar, antibiotic packet, sterile swabs, and more). We are looking forward to a great (secular) year of bio based around these books.

That is exactly how I took it :). I was agreeing with you and just extending the converation!

Yes, she is an ideal associate. Never late, often works beyond expectations, always wants to get everything right, even if it takes extra effort, meticulous, and absolutely does not fight receiving direction; she thinks getting direction is natural and expected, though she is also not afraid to be somewhat creative to problem solve within her area of expertise, as she is an expert at the things she does well. Gifted people, as has been discussed extensively in a variety of other threads, come in many packages. There are many who do work hard, and take nothing, including their gifts, for granted. There are those who get used to coasting, partly because nobody ever takes the effort to challenge them. There is a syndrome in which particularly in late high school or college, some begin to become fearful of extending themselves, after a lifetime of being labeled "So smart" "Mr. Perfect" etc, not confident in their abilities and fearful of being discovered as some kind of fraud, and they therefore stop trying to do difficult things. Many are 2E in some sense, and battle to overcome some disability that is out of sync with their abilities or age in some way, or have some kind of reverse-compensating sensitivities or quirks. Being gifted is not exactly a key to automatic life on a platter, either in terms of ease or instant success. Hard work and social support still matter.