There really is no such thing as "pre-algebra." It's a review of arithmetic and an early introduction to algebra. I typical to strong math student can go straight from elementary arithmetic (strong in everything through fractions, decimals, some exponents and square roots, negative numbers) directly into algebra. GIven the hope that multiplication and division are pretty well nailed down by 4th grade or so, hopefully it does not take 4 more years to get fractions, decimals, percentages, and exponents-- that would be an entire year per concept. Now, not all students are necessarily at the same place in math. Some kids read later than others. Some kids walk later than others. Some kids start to get the hang of math later than others. I would NEVER advocate rushing a kid into algebra before he is ready, and for many kids, this is not before ninth grade. That's perfectly fine. It is far more important to really nail down the basics before moving forward* if a student is not ready, and pre-algebra (which does not exist LOL) can really help with that-- see note below. Taking an extra year to work on more difficult problems can really help as well, to build confidence and competence. My kid would get killed on a football field. He is still working, at 9, on learning to run properly. Another kid may need more work on math before tackling algebra; given the extra time he may do just fine, and even learn to like it (I doubt my son will ever like football, and I'm great with that. Algebra does not cause concussions). *why would I advocate pre-algebra if I say it does not exist? Sometimes, including with my own kids, they still need more practice, but they have gotten so bored looking at the same old dumb problems that they insist they know the stuff (even if they don't, really) that they aren't very motivated to keep working at them any more. Sometimes, some somewhat more interesting material is just the ticket to get those underlying skills moving, and that early, easy, taste of algebra that you get in a typical pre-algebra course can be just right to accomplish making multiplicaiton, division, fractions, and decimals much more interesting and motivating. It kind of gives all that stuff a purpose. So algebra in 8th? Sure. Algebra in 9th? That's fine too. Algebra should happen-- when your kid is ready for it. Not before, and the elementary math doesn't need to be dragged out long after he's mastered it; there is nothing magical happening there if he has already built a strong foundation. Only you can determine whether you feel your child is being rushed or set at the right pace, but unless your child is doing something demonstrably behind (I would worry if a neurotypical student was only tackling algebra I at graduation time) or struggling aindi frustrated to tears, follow your child's lead, not so much what others are doing. What they are doing may not be right for you.

I would read it out loud with both. Here is another thread that might give you some ideas: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/442627-how-fast-can-we-effectively-go-through-lof-elementary/

In several recent math threads, I have read questions about math texts that reflected concerns about being able to access answers to exercises (due to lack of a teacher manual, expensive teacher manuals, out of print editions, etc). Although it will not help with word problems, I wanted to make sure forum members were aware of the website Wolfram Alpha for pretty much any problem that you can put into a mathematical equation-- just go to www.wolframalpha.com and enter the equation that is giving you difficulty, and get the answer, if you just need to check the answer. For free, there is now a step-by-step solution feature, where you can have up to three solutions emailed to you (or you can sign up for W-A Pro for unlimited step by step solutions). I see there is an example generator for all kinds of problems, including word problems, so perhaps there is a way to input word problems that I simply have not explored yet. You can expect your answer in several formats, which can be interesting to your kids-- for example, if you enter a fraction problem, your answer will be returned as an exact fraction, a decimal, a mixed number, a number line, and an Egyptian expansion fraction. If you enter a polynomial problem, you can expect a graphical solution as well. This is a really nice resource for quickly checking "Is this answer really wrong, or is this answer key perhaps printed incorrectly?" or for those times when you have a problem and no answer key at all for it, and there is the opportunity to get a step-by-step solution mailed to you. Neither DH nor I has any affiliation with W-A that I am aware of; DH has programmed other mathematical packages, but not, I believe, this one, so I am not pushing anything for any type of personal gain; just trying to help my fellow forum members, because I know math can be a sticky problem for many.

My kids love the videos on YouTube and we have a boxed set of the books, which I have read. I have not found anything in there that upset me from a religious POV. Then again, I generally feel that our faith comes from a pretty strong place, so challenging ideas, humor, honestly portrayed events in history, and so on, really are no threat to our faith. Keep this in mind: you can find people who think (and review online) everything from Little House on the Prairie to Harry Potter as anti-Christian... You may want to remind your Mom that unless she knows that pastor personally, his opinion may not be worth the paper it isn't even written on. Jen PS you really have to watch the YouTube video on HH, Henry VIII wives. Good stuff :)

I'm a WTM minority. We love Spelling Workout here-- the rules for each lesson focus are explained well enough, and the groupings of works show him how a sound ends up spelled differently in different types of words, as well as highlighting the meaning and usage of the words along with the blends and sounds throughout the lessons. For DS9, that really drills the spellings home, along with the periodic reviews of old lessons built into the book. Of course, DS9 also studies Latin, German, and does Caesar's English, which makes a lot of work origins a lot more clear as we go, too. DS11 no longer needs to study spelling, but he studies Latin, German, and is working his way through MCT's Word Within the Word, which works on Latin, Greek, and Old English word roots, which explain a lot of spelling issues. The linguistics major in me is satisfied with the information provided by Spelling Workout, but more importantly, it has been enough to help my kiddo learn to spell, along with the reading he does and our vocabulary work.

When we first started homeschooling, my boys had a lot of gaps-- the swiss cheese background effect-- and we started out with Math Mammoth, and continued it for a little while even after I found our personal "gold" in math programs. I really do like Math Mammoth, how it is laid out and organized, and I corresponded some with Maria, and found her to be so very helpful, dedicated, and genuinely enthusiastic about teaching math. It was such a wonderful thing to encounter someone who wasn't simply out to make a buck in the burgeoning homeschool market, but who really enjoys teaching math; I loved dealing with her! She is a true homeschooling treasure.

This is where different things work for different families. For a book with this much depth, reading multiple times at different ages has its advantages as well :)

What you choose will really vary family by family! Some ideas to mull over: Latin: Lively Latin has worked well here. There are many other options discussed throughout the boards though. Logic: We started with Mind Bender puzzles (grid style puzzles that go by many names, depending upon who publishes them; Mind Benders are the Critical Thinking Co name). We also have worked on Red Herring Mysteries, computer programming, and The Fallacy Detective (not completely secular, FYI). We'll be moving on to more formal logic next semester, and continuing with computer programming as well. Math: We love Life of Fred as a standalone curriculum. It is very quirky-- works for some, not so much for others. There are currently three pre-Algebra books after Fractions and Decimals/Percents; there were only two when my older son went through the series and he did fine (Biology and Economics). There are many popular titles available; the key is to work with what works with your kid-- straightforward textbook (Lial's Forster, Dolciani), student-directed challenges to chew upon that don't necessarily give you every step, but certainly still give you the information to put it all together (Life of Fred, Art of Problem Solving) Vocabulary: Two very worthy ways to go here are Vocabulary Workshop and Michael Clay Thompson's series (Caesar's English and Word Within the Word). They are both excellent. Memory Work: Poetry is a good way to go here. Poems both silly and serious. The kings and queens of England. Key sections of the periodic table. Presidents. States and Capitals. Things that actually interest your child (names of Roman and Greek deities? Oceans of the world? Key American Artists?). Have fun and good luck!

My understanding is that they will be unable to charge more for people with pre-existing conditions, and policies offered under the exchange must be comparable to the better private policies available. Hang in there. Have you worked with an independent insurance broker? There are insurance guys who work independently of any one insurance company who help individuals and small businesses find policies-- even pregnant women, fr example, who need the pregnancy covered-- and who try to work with tough situations like pre-existings. Sometimes they can find a "group" for you to join that you didn't know about or something. Since they don't get paid unless they find you a policy you are happy with and can manage, they work pretty hard to make it happen. Good luck. High medical costs add so much stress!

We had great results from Earobics (the level 2 CD). He actually enjoyed most of the work on it, though parts of it were very hard work. His next step probably ought to be FastForward or LindaMoodBell, but I will wait for a re-eval to get an updated recommendation first, because I hate to put him through the work of the wrong therapy unnecessarily!

This this this this. I could never wrap my head around the school administrators who used to sit in IEP meetings and tell me I was "cruel" for trying to have my son classified as special needs, because of the stigma it would create for him, "because all special needs kids are bullied in school." That was the number one reason they would offer up for refusing him access to services. Seriously. I can't even comment further on that line, because there are just too many things wrong with that entire line of reasoning . . . However, as I stated in my prior post, my son was asking me by age 3 why he couldn't "run and 'gump' and p'ay' like the other kids in my class." I would never fear a diagnosis in terms of making a kid feel different; my son at 4 1/2 was so relieved to discover there was a reason for everything, and that it was not his fault. He is now 9 and is very comfortable in his own skin, which is amazing to me, given that he is over 5' tall and barely cracks 70lb on the scale-- at a young 9 years old. He accepts who he is, he works hard to learn to do the things that are hard for him, because he knows that is is reality, and he enjoys the things that come easily to him as a 2E kiddo. Knowing his dx has made all the difference.

Put me into the "so very relieved" category. Of equal importance, from a very, very young age, put my son into the "very relieved" category. By age 4 1/2--5, he grasped that his diagnosis meant that his differences were not his fault; that he was not sick or defective in some way (despite his dx ultimately having a genetic cause); that he would be able to succeed by working harder and that he had our belief in him and our full support. Mostly he was so happy to find out that his difficulties and differences were not something he was doing "wrong." For that realization for him alone, it was worth it. We did not expect a "genetic diagnosis" when we went into it. Now we are really glad that we have it, because we have uncovered related medical issues related to his dx that we would never have known to watch for, whose symptoms are subtle, but whose implications are very, very important, potentially life-saving. I would never want to alarm a parent into thinking that getting a learning disability is automatically a life or death matter, because that would be frankly, stupid and irresponsible; the overwhelming majority are not; my son just happened to win that lottery. He won the better lottery too-- he will be just fine and will live a normal, happy, healthy, productive life because of what we discovered. Because of that, I also never tell parents to blow off the notion of testing as mere curiousity, or to fear it because of stigma or what others will think. We were actually at first counseled to conceal our son's diagnosis even from family members (!!!) because of what people think about XXY's. Our tack has been the opposite-- to educate everyone about the enormous potential of individuals who happen to have extra X chromosomes, to dispel the myths, and to remove the shame by showing those around us that we see no reason to think it is shameful; we think it is normal. I would advocate testing if you have concerns. Most testing will simply reveal a learning need, and hopefully, point out a direction for how to best handle it (and help you avoid useless strategies, saving you time and money in the long run). It can help you figure out the best way to help your child learn, how to help her to independently cope with any challenges she has. And for one of out every so many kids, testing will uncover a bigger need, including some need for additional medical management and preventative steps to be taken that will be truly life-altering.

I agree with Kai on this completely. Handwriting can be a deal breaker for younger kids, and white boards, window writing, you scribing for them, working on an ipad or a computer, graph paper, and other methods can all be great helps. I think you hit the nail on the head yourself when you said he is advanced "except in handwriting and maturity." And that is fine, and not something that needs to be remedied; it's fine for a bright kid to still be a kid. Help him deal with the disparity between his abilities and his age so that his age is not a roadblock for what he can really do.

I would go back to the point where she is struggling, and have her start there again. I made my older son a separate section in his math notebook, and asked him to take notes in it-- write out the "rules" he learned, or to even explain to himself "why" something worked the way it did if he saw the reason why (if he had his own epiphany). If your daughter doesn't want to write it out (my son is sometimes resistant to that) have her explain the section to you-- what is going on? Why does it work? That way, you are staying true to Fred-- you are not doing the teaching-- but you are letting her teach it to you, and if she isn't getting something, you'll see it. Similarly, if you really think she may be missing something, have her narrate to you as she works the problems. Sometimes having to explain it out loud will make a difference. If she is still stuck, there is always the $5 Math Mammoth fractions book to fall back on to get over a rough spot :). My older son hasn't needed that, but my younger son definitely benefits from seeing things presented in multiple ways; he is gifted in math, but he just retains things better when he sees it different ways (he does MM, Fred, and Singapore, plus Khan and Penrose, and will still get through 2-3 levels of math this year). Sometimes, getting stuck in Fred means that there is some underlying skill that needs more reinforcement. By hearing the lessons out loud, you may be able figure out what that is. Some extra work in Khan Academy may help to iron that out for a while-- it may be that she simply isn't ready for the rest of Fractions just yet! If it stops being fun and turns to tears, I would shelve it for a while. Good luck! Jen

Take time to "play" with the ideas in each chapter-- there is a lot more in those books than just the "Your Turn to Play" problems. In Apples, in one of the early chapters, there is a picture of the 7 pencils and different ways to add 7. Okay, so dump out a box of 250 colored pencils. Pick out 24. How many ways can we make 24? Just by adding? Can we make different groups that make 24? Oh! Cool! So . . . this exercise gives us ways to make . . . multiplication . . . and division . . . and fractions. How about 36 pencils? Again, multiplication, division, and fractions. Not ready for all that yet? What about all the number bonds, a-la Singapore? How about 100 pencils-- now you can introduce decimals and place value. You can spend a week or more just on that one picture. Move forward to the pictures of the clocks. How long did you spend on clock skills from there? Play with the clock ideas. There is a place where Fred moves in increments of 5 minutes. How many increments of 5 are there in an hour? Does this mean a clock can always remind you of 5x12? What about 60 / 5 or 60 / 12? What about clocks and what they can tell you about 20's? 15's? Can you use a clock to help you demonstrate fractions (a quarter of an hour?). Again, there is a week or two of fun there, just from the pictures of the clocks in one of the books. In one of the books he talks about Archimedes. Look up more information about Archimedes. Read about him, get a book from the library about Archimedes. Sets are mentioned throughout the Fred Elementary series, including great information about Domain, CoDomains, and other properties of sets that many college students arrive without a firm understanding of. Take your time, slow down, and really have fun with these sets, and really dig in and grab these concepts completely before moving on. Union, disjoint sets. Can more than one thing map to a codomain, or was it the other way around? Does your 7YO really have that completely nailed down already? I would say take your time. Don't be afraid to go through the books a second time, even, and get the details that may have been missed; I would say the YTTP problems are the least of the teaching that exist in the books. Now, for elementary, I too would hesitate to use them as the sole curriculum without a lot of self-supplementation; they would act for me as more of a "guide" than a be all and end all. The upper level books have been, for DS11, more than sufficient so far. We have been thrilled with the completeness of instruction from Fractions on up through most of Beginning Algebra so far (I do make sure he reads it slowly enough to really get the math out of it; he is advanced in math, and he sets his own pace, but I any time he has struggled the problem has not been the book; it has been him zipping through and not reading carefully. Going back and reading more carefully has always solved the problem). The upper level books are constructed more "completely" than the elementary books. Everyone uses the books differently, in a manner that is right for their family-- quick review, supplement, complete curriculum. That's my take. There is plenty to be found in the elementary books, but it does take parent involvement and time. DS9 certainly *can* read them himself, and when he does, he goes through them much faster than when I read them with him, but he doesn't get nearly the same content out of them as he does when I read them with him-- no big surprise. As the adult reader, you have to be on the lookout for all the gems that are right there waiting to be discovered.

Yes, you can reuse agar, reheat it, let it solidify, and reuse it. Just be careful to use sterile technique when pouring. It will help if when you pour, you will naturally have the vessel at an angle-- only tip it up enough to stop the liquid from pouring, but do not tip it upright any farther; cap it off as soon as it stops pouring. Preferably, hold the cap between your fingers rather than setting it down on the counter while pouring. If you must set it down, set it down on a clean lab diaper or paper towel, facing up. (The face up may be counter-intuitive; you may be worried about germs "falling into the cap," but it is more important that you not set it down face down and pick up germs around the rim by contact with the counter surface). Even better, use gloves when handling the container and pouring.

If you get the computer plan, can you automatically still use it on your ipad/ipod devices as well? I pay just $7/month for full access to all videos and quizzes on my mobile devices. My kids both watch the videos at the same time on the ipad or ipod, or they each have a device and watch, and they just put in their own names when they take the quizzes-- you can type in a name each time you take a quiz. I see no advantage to buying a "multi-user license" at all.

Not completely on topic, but depending upon where in NJ you are, consider Delaware. You file a registration in September/October that lists your students with basic demographics, and in July you report days attended. That's it. There is no actual attendance requirement, testing, etc. Pretty easy state, and we try to keep it that way. We don't want the same people who have bungled public education screwing things up by trying to tell us what we should do. When we find parents not getting it done (DE is a small state) usually someone tries to mentor the parents or gently nudge them back towards school. In cases of true educational neglect, there are sully other forms of neglect happening at the same time.

We ordered sports goggles for my son through Zenni.com for $30-$40. He has a heavy Rx, and we were very happy with the prescription quality--so much so that we have since ordered some regular glasses from them as well. Just check carefully for nosepiece padding, but for the high quality, this is the best price I have found anywhere. DS11 needs them for karate and fencing, and is nowhere near ready to manage contact lenses yet.

I cannot tell you people how much better this thread has made me feel about my entire last two months-- from the asynchrony to the squeaking brother . . . we have had it all!

My son was very young when diagnosed with his extra chromosome (47, XXY) and we explained it to him immediately. He was SO relieved. Even at that young age, he knew he struggled to do things that the "regular kids" (his words) did easily, without even trying. He was, and is, very intelligent and hard-working; a people-pleasing kind of personality, but he had specific roadblocks that held him back from getting many things easily. When we explained that this extra chromosome meant that he COULD do all of the things that he wanted to do, but that it meant he would just have to work harder than some other kids to do them, he was so very, very, very relieved. He was so glad that it was: a) Not his fault B) confirmation that he was not sick or broken c) something that he could overcome with the right attitude and determination. There will always be some things that are tougher to come by for him despite his high IQ. However, thanks to his work ethic, "Mommy, I guess I'll just have to work harder than everyone else so I can do all the stuff I want to do." there won't be anything he can't do, and he knows this to be true. For him, and us, his diagnosis was a relief. It provided us with needed information, and a path forward, and allowed us to avoid subjecting him to unnecessary and unhelpful interventions (all too many boys with XXY are misdiagnosed as autistic or even schizophrenic, which is horrific, as they are entirely capable of living completely normal lives when treated right. I have met some of the men who have lived some of these stories; they absolutely wish they had been properly diagnosed as children). The ones I don't get are the parents who withhold the diagnosis from their child, and allow the child to continue to wonder why he is different, wonder if it is his fault, if he has done something wrong, if he is sick, wonder any number of fears he is unable or unwilling to articulate to his parents for fear of disappointing them or sounding silly, when his fears could so easily be put to rest! We were told many many professionals to not tell our son his diagnoses for fear that he "might tell the wrong people" and get embarrassed. So what if he does-- the biggest problem with his diagnosis is that nobody knows about it, even though it is the most common genetic rearrangement people are born with (more common than Down's). If he tells somebody, we'll simply educate them, and his world will be a larger, better place :). Our son's dx has a medical component as well, and getting the diagnosis and sharing it with him has allowed him to participate, from a very young age, in some of his own medical decisions. We have final say still, at this age, because he is too young to know what is best, but I find he asks excellent, thoughtful questions ("what's the <medical, not financial> cost of this treatment? What will it do to me besides the good part?" "Is this part of my Xtra X, or is this just a little boy issue?") For us, there has been no down-side to getting a proper diagnosis. Knowledge is power, and our son has absolutely been empowered by knowing his diagnosis. He has used it to decide to work harder, to be at ease with who he is when other kids can run faster, and to like himself exactly as he is instead of wishing he was more like other kids.

FYI the above is just what I would do in that situation; first graders learn best through play anyway. Delaware doesn't actually demand any specific time; they recommend we follow district guidelines, but we don't have to.

Hours of school does not have to mean seated butt planted firmly in desk. Physical education time-- skipping rope, playing on swings, riding bikes Life skills/mathematics reinforcement-- help cook, help clean and do chores. Learn liquid measures, math, estimating, safety, etc. Logic, small motor, art-- puzzles, knitting, coloring, imaginative play, play dough, painting, crafts, chalk Music, physical education, mathematical development-- listening to music, dancing, rhythm instruments Math, logic, social skills, reading reinforcement-- many games, both free play and board/dice games Reading, history, science, etc-- free reading time, reading out loud to pets or stuffed animals, bedtime reading, poetry . . . It all adds up.

We started homeschooling when DS11 was haflway through fourth grade and DS9 was halfway through 2nd grade. We spent the first 12-14 weeks just enjoying our way through ancient Greece, Rome, and Egypt, then we really got started. Below is my anticipated plan, and so far it still feels good, though nothing is carved in stone. I'm dealing with American History by spending extra time on it during each section of the history cycle as it comes up during the grammar and logic years, adding in lots of extra literature and field trips, and then condensing world history in high school and adding in a year of US history and government, as I see that that is a requirement for admissions in some of the colleges that I have scanned. This leaves us a year for the kids to choose an area of interest to focus on of their own choosing in their senior year. I am curious whether anybody else has planned in a year or more of allowing their children to choose topics of interest to them in high school (such as a year to focus on the period of history that interests them most, such as Tudor England, or WW2, or signing up for an AP course, or whatever that interest may be) rather than planning everything out for them. I don't seem to hear that mentioned very often, or maybe I just don't hang out around the high school boards enough since my kids aren't that old yet? Yes, the below schedules mean that my kids are not studying the same periods of history at the same time. Two years into it, this has not been a problem. Sometimes they listen in on each other's lessons, which has proved very interesting, because they not only get some great reinforcement, but they see some cause/effect connections over time, and some interesting parallels in leadership styles and mistakes that have taken place that they might otherwise have missed. I certainly don't require this of them, but they have both enjoyed history enough that they sometimes even pilfer each other's literature in their spare time, which has been fun as well. We were able to all watch "1776" (the Musical" together this weekend because DS11 has been reading and listening ahead, so he's learned enough about the American Revolution and the Constitutional Convention to know all of the players involved. The one oddity I have in there is that I have their timings rearranged so that they will both study US and government the same year together-- that will allow for plenty of public service, field trips, and book discussions together on the topic. (O/T: I am doing the same thing in science: I have also arranged for senior year science to permit them freedom of choice to choose a topic of interest to them, having already covered bio, chem, and physics with labs in the high school years. They can choose a second year of one or more of those, earth science, a specialty subject, an AP course . . . but by then they should have some say in figuring out what is interesting, even in a semester or trimester format). For DS11: 1 Ancients World 2 *now Medieval World 3 Early Modern World 4 Modern World Freshman Ancient & Medieval World View Sophomore Modern East & West Junior US & Government Senior DS11 Choice of topics For DS9: Year History & Literature 1 Ancients & Medieval World Survey 2 *now Early Modern & Modern World Survey 3 Ancients World 4 Medieval World 5 Early Modern World 6 Modern World Freshman US & Government Sophomore Ancient & Medieval World View Junior Modern East & West Senior DS9 Choice

And now I thank you! The prehistory timeline is newer, and I did not know about it... I will put it on my list for when DS9 hits logic stage!