Canada, Mexico, and the Bahamas.

Yeah, I was unclear on the requirements :doh. Theologically speaking, we hold that the only requirement to be a pastor is to be called by a group of Christians to be their shepherd. So an underground house church in China can decide that member A of their little group is best qualified to be pastor, call him, and he is a real pastor, authorized to administer the Sacraments. You do the best you can with what you have. And here in the U.S., we are blessed with a lot, have a lot to work with. So we have the luxury to be able to educate our pastoral candidates to a high standard. And so we don't certify candidates without their having gone through seminary, which includes studying the Bible in the original languages, etc., because we both believe it to be of value and are capable of doing it. But for places that aren't capable of it, it's a practical issue, but not a doctrinal one - pastors are pastors because they are called to serve a congregation, not because of their education or lack thereof. Does that make sense? And it is probably my Big Feelings on the whole anti-intellectual strain in American evangelicalism that prompted my reaction, not her actual words :doh.

That's probably true in a lot of cases, but there's also this undercurrent of anti-intellectualism - that all a pastor (or anyone) needs is a Bible and the Holy Spirit - that at best there's no value in studying what "mere humans" have written and thought about theology, and at worst that such "head knowledge" is actually damaging.

Granted, one can be a genuine pastor without any education whatsoever. The only doctrinal requirements my denomination has is that to be a pastor you have to called by a congregation to serve as their pastor. That's it. But to do it *well*, it takes a bit more. Certainly you can learn on the job - all pastors, no matter how well educated will - but a certain baseline can help safeguard congregations against more common errors. And my denomination considers knowledge of the original languages, theology, and church history (plus how to preach, counsel, etc.) to be our baseline. And while I get other churches have different baselines, the denigration of the very idea of a baseline, or even having a theological educational at all, is very puzzling and disturbing to me :001_huh:. I mean, all pastors - whatever their starting knowledge - should be continually studying and learning.

:iagree:On another board we were discussing educational requirements for pastors, and I was told that our denomination's requirements - four year M.Div program, three years classroom, one year vicarage (internship for pastors), requires knowledge of original languages - were considered to be incredibly, incredibly high wrt the rest of American Protestantism :001_huh:. I was shocked that it was considered so very uncommon.

Definitely agree that its a v v v good idea to get a bachelor's in something marketable, or else learn a trade, or *something* - have some sort of fallback skill for earning a living. I do have Big Feelings about avoiding/disdaining an M.Div. or higher theological education in general because of the sad but true fact that education can sometimes lead to pride issues, though. That bit of human nature is certainly something to be watchful for as one learns more - but it is *not* the fault of education itself, nor is it a reason to avoid education entirely. I mean, this is a classical ed board - despite all the criticism classical ed gets about promoting head knowledge at the expense of character/heart-knowledge/what-have-you, we still believe it is worthwhile - that a strong academic-focused education, though not the end-all, be-all, is still valuable. Why does that suddenly not count when it's a matter of religion? Why is religious knowledge seen as less valuable and more dangerous? I do believe that the original languages are a must - so much crappy, crappy doctrine has been promulgated by sincerely ignorant individuals. And church history is a big help - gives you a better chance to realize that this keen new insight you just had actually leads to a heresy - one that was debated and settled 1500 years ago.

:iagree: And the Pearls in particular make really heinous things sound totally reasonable. Maybe I'm just highly suggestible, but I read TTUAC for research purposes, was thoroughly prejudiced against it before starting, and they *still* managed to make switching infants sound like the natural, sensible thing to do. I was shocked and disturbed at how persuasive they were.

On one hand, I could probably be friends with just about anyone if they could agree to disagree - I.e. I'm not going to pretend I think something is a valid approach if I think it is flat out morally wrong. And I don't expect them to do the same. But if they are still willing to be friends, so am I. Although I might keep dc out of it. Things that I would feel compelled to state disagreement: *Anything to do with God mandating spanking *racist, sexist, etc language *lawbreaking *abuse, be it physical, mental, emotional, spiritual And if they never changed or got worse, I might not be able to take it long term - idk, never been an issue yet - and would step back.

Our denomination requires a four year MDiv for pastors. Any bachelor's is accepted (dh's is in biomedical science). The denom. covers a lot of the costs, but not all, and yes, Dh has a lot of loans and we're on the 30yr repayment plan. Anyway, I value the emphasis on pastoral education. I believe it is important they know the original languages and how to do solid interpretation of their own, how to critically evaluate others' interpretations, to know church history and theological history, to understand the whys and wherefores of our doctrine. Because sincere people can be enthusiastically wrong, and when they are leaders they take others with them :(.

Idk if I could be friends with someone who is nuts about the Pearls - I'd try, but I doubt they'd want to be friends with me, tbh. But I would feel compelled to speak up - that book is just so damaging, so insidious - it truly is like if they were giving poison to their family thinking it was something good - how could I not in good conscience speak up? But I would try v v v hard to frame it as, "good parents that you are, you might not be aware of the damaging aspects of the Pearls - mommy filter and all - and I'm sure you don't take it to extremes yourself, but that book is dangerous, and I'd hate for you to accidentally adopt the bad bits or innocently rec it to a family who gets hurts by the bad bits". Make it more us good parents against the Pearls instead of you horrible Pearl-following people ;). And even then the odds of it going well are probably not high.

Here's the link I learned from: http://webhome.idirect.com/~totton/abacus/pages.htm With beginners I've been doing the RS beginner way, of not using place value, but letting each bead be one. Limits you to answers of 100 (on an RS abacus, anyway), but hasn't been an issue yet.

I use our RS one to illustrate concepts, so my technique is more the long way around than the official, most efficient way - figure we'll do those when they are old enough to get the how and how behind it. So I add by putting the first number on, and then putting the second number on a different row. Then we regroup. Say it's 9+6. Put 9 on one row, 6 on another row, then take one away from the 6 to put with the 9 - now we have one ten and 5 units, and that's our answer. Same thing with multiplication - I put on 4 rows of 6 (or what have you), and then regroup, regroup, regroup until we have the answer. But I've read about "official" techniques, and they have faster techniques. Google "how to use a soroban" - that's a Japanese abacus - and you should find something. That's how I learned. ETA: The abacus is great for doing "harder" numbers with a little one - with it we can do just about any problem she comes up with, in a way that illustrates clearly the underlying concepts :thumbup:.

I always liked reading about Marie Curie :).

Ds wasn't a preemie, but had health issues, so he was in for a week. Things that were hard: *Feeding myself. I didn't like to leave the room, and the hospital food was expensive anyway (b/w dh and I we spent $500 on food for a week's stay :glare:). My main meal was whatever dh brought up each day, breakfast was provided, and the rest was catch-as-catch-can. Mom sent up some favorite foods that kept, and that was very helpful. I was nursing, and at least for me, in the initial stages, I'm *starving*, I have to eat all the time, and b/w stress and all, getting out to get food myself just didn't happen much (honestly, self-care in general didn't happen much). *Living in a hospital room (that's not yours) while having just given birth. This actually wasn't too bad for me, as I had the easiest recovery ever, but for many, many women, sitting on hard chairs, sleeping squished in a chair, communal restrooms, would be extra rough after giving birth. *Dh drove up every day, and while it was stressful for him, I really appreciated having some company. I'm a total introvert, and being alone is nice, but when under stress worrying about baby and medical procedures and all, having someone to give hugs and support was nice. Definitely ask first, though. *Helping keep up the house and such - my mom watched our dds, and I know she was getting worn thin by the end. :grouphug:

:lol: That's me :D. When the library bag is stuffed to the brim and the diaper bag can hold no more overflow, it's time to go ;). That works out to 20-30 books per visit, depending on size (books) and determination (me). We have only my card, and I haven't hit the limit yet. We have three branches we go to regularly - the closest and smallest has three week checkout period, and the two larger and farther ones have just two week checkouts. One renewal for all, which we can do online. Wrt keeping track, the library sends a very helpful reminder email three days before books are due, with the ones due all listed out. That plus a good memory for where I saw books last :tongue_smilie: is generally sufficient. eta: We can return books to any branch, and the nearest branch is just a few minutes away - so if I don't want to drat us all out for a library trip, I just have dh return them on his way home. eta2: Also, wrt keeping track of books, I do limit how many my dc can get - 5 for the 5yo, 3 for the 3yo ;) - so there aren't too many to search out. All the rest are mine, and I'm good at keeping all the ones I'm not actively reading in one spot plus remembering where I left the rest, so my having anywhere from 20-70 out isn't a big deal except for needing more bags to return them.

We only have one card, mine (though dd5.5 wants one, and if she gets one, dd3 will want one, too). We have 105 books out atm, of which 15 or so are the kids', 6 are dh's, and the rest are mine. We usually have more like 30 out at a time - I made several library trips in quick succession to fuel three separate interests, and I am incapable of leaving without a full library bag :tongue_smilie:. No idea the limit - was wondering if 100 would be it, but apparently not :lol:. I only just tried the hold system, which worked so well I will do it more ;) - put four on - and no idea of the limit. Eta: checkout period is 3 weeks at our "home" library, and two weeks at two of the neighboring libraries we go to a lot (bigger, better selection), and we can renew items once.

We've been there, and it sucks :grouphug:. We're in the same denomination as Carol in Cal, and despite the official doctrinal and contractual protections, forced resignations are more common than you'd think :glare:. Most pastors don't fight it, because who wants to have their ministry (possibly family) dragged through the mud? Agree with 3blessingmom that usually it's b/c of a small group - most of the congregation is blindsided, too. And I can't imagine continuing to serve after getting the news - we did go to a farewell lunch, for the sake of the vast majority that had nothing to do with it, but otherwise made a clean break. We went to a different church - the pastor there was so wonderful, such a friend to Dh :) - and otherwise stayed far away. Getting a job was hard - we were at the poverty line for a year and half, until he got another call. Agree that depression is likely - was for Dh :(. I'm glad they've got you as a friend. Eta: we got 6 weeks severance and were glad to get it - could have easily been nothing. Drained our savings entirely, and we were grateful for help from family and friends, but made it.

IME it's important so that you can pronounce long words you only know from reading properly. I never learned how to divide syllables, and I'm forever having to censor my speaking because I don't know how to pronounce a word I learned from reading. Very frustrating and I feel so stupid every time. As I've been studying Latin and Greek, and learning to divide English syllables as I study up how to teach reading, I've gotten a lot better at getting the pronunciation right :thumbup:. Dividing for pronunciation/spelling is a bit different than dividing for splitting the word at the end of the line - that specific application isn't so important to me, though I value dividing syllables in general.

I voted other. I agree with the general sentiment that we were created to be in fellowship with God, but not that our point in life is to glorify God - that wording is too Calvinist for me, too "humanity only exists to serve God's needs". Sometimes the Calvinist emphasis on God's sovereignty gets a little too "narcissistic God" for my taste :tongue_smilie: (besides, I don't agree that God's sovereignty is the foundational doctrine of Christianity in the first place). ETA: I would say that it is not clear in the Bible *why* God chose to create people, only that he wanted too. Speculation as to why is just that, speculation. The Bible does make it clear that He loves us, though, and I see the foundational doctrine of Christianity as the expression of that love in reconciling us to Him through Christ's death on the cross.

No, you're not hallucinating ;). And TT isn't even the only math program who inspires fighting words :tongue_smilie: - fights have started over if CLE qualifies as "conceptual math", too :D. I love being on a board where we come to blows over math programs :lol:. My best guess is that, as WTM attracts a lot of academically oriented, inclined to overachieving types, the idea that we are choosing a substandard program, especially for something as core as math, feels like a failure in parenting. Also, I think people take it extra badly b/c with TT (and CLE) b/c just about all the really prominent math gurus on the board aren't fans. So that reinforces the less than feeling. MM is pretty well established here as a "good", "conceptual" program, so it's not really threatening if people don't like it. Random musings :auto:.

Here's a compilation of baptist history that looks to be from your perspective: http://bible-truth.org/BaptistHistory.html - and it has a bibliography at the end that could point you to some good books.

:iagree: I do that (for myself) with all sorts of subjects (history of science, music, art, etc.) - you can go as specific as you want (history of religion, history of Christianity, history of Lutherans, history of the reformation, history of American Lutherans, history of American Lutherans from 1650-1800, etc ;)). I like to find biographies of key people, too.

Math on the Level.

Does really sound like Claiborne's Common Prayer: A Liturgy for Ordinary Radicals that I linked above :). Eta: I've looked at the samples, and they are pretty good, and pretty in line with the Western liturgical tradition.

Is it the one by Shawn Claiborne - http://www.amazon.com/Common-Prayer-Pocket-Ordinary-Radicals/dp/031033506X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327202181&sr=1-1