I haven't read all the replies because we're headed out the door soon, but wanted to let you know what we did with our 5 year old. This may not work for you, bc my 5 yo is generally pretty well behaved, but he does have his naughty/whiny/arguing moments that were just escalating because I had started arguing with him. Arguing with a child....well it just doesn't work, they're perfectly content to go on and on. What I did was explain to him the difference between obedience and disobedience. I explained that mommy wasn't just making him do everything I wanted just for the fun of it, he had to learn obedience to keep him safe. And I explained that he can choose to be disobedient any time he wants, but he WILL get disciplined for it. In our house discipline is 1) Time out. If that doesn't work to change his attitude we go to 2) Upstairs on his bed. This may not work for everyone, because lots of kids see it as an escape where they don't have to do anything, but my kid absolutely hates it. If that still doesn't work 3)spanking. We rarely get to step 3 anymore. So when he starts getting whiny/arguing, whatever, I just stop him and say, "are you going to choose to be obedient or choose to be disobedient?" Usually before I've even fiinished the sentence he says "obedient". And I say, "then go and do it NOW" (if he doesn't do it now, it's considered disobedience). He's actually never chosen to be disobedient (like I said, usually a pretty mellow kid). But it keeps me from arguing with him and keeps him from thinking that I'm being unfair because he knows the choice lies with him. I had heard someone on this board say that their kids get 3 strikes a day and if they get to 3, they lose a privilege. They also have chances to get a strike erased by being extra good or whatever. So I modified it for us. My son loves to use the computer and he loves to stay up later than his brother. So the rule is if he gets three strikes, he doesn't get to stay up late to use the computer or play a game with me. This was just an obvious motivation for us, you might have a harder time finding something. Oh and I have noticed that his behavior is usually worse when he's needing extra attention/love. So I try to hug him lots first and read to him and sing with him and be silly with him. He definitely wants someone to notice and appreciate his silliness. Sorry it's so long, it's just what's worked with us lately, hopefully something in there can be of use for you. :grouphug:

Oh please oh please oh please pick Utah!

Wow, this is amazing!!!!! Thank you!

I don't know where you are, but Deals to Meals covers the western half of the US.

:bigear: We are using the Gospel Principles manual first to get a good foundation before we go on to other things. It just drives me crazy to think of teaching things out of order, so I want to start with what happened before, "In the beginning..." We'll also probably use Preach My Gospel at some point, I don't know when. My son is five and the way they learn things in Primary is kinda by subject, I want chronological. After that I have all the Study Guides for each SW, we'll just use those.

The general consensus is to give the toddler all the attention first. What I did was go to the dollar store and buy a TON of things that would keep him occupied. I got bubble wrap, glass beads, pom poms, plastic tongs, stamps, ribbons, etc. Anything that could keep his attention, even if it's only for 2 minutes. A hypothetical schedule would be: have him and your 5 year old do "Tot School" by playing with these things. It will work on fine motor skills for both of them. (I also had to get another booster seat for my toddler that strapped to the chair and strapped him down. No climbing out and onto the table) While they do that, have your 7 and 9 year olds do their independent work. Once your toddler has reached his limit, do any family read alouds or your science and history reading with all four on the couch. Then your 9yo could play and supervise the toddler while you do school with your 5 yo or 7yo (depending on who needs more help). Then toddler goes into the pack and play while you do school with the 7 and 9 year old. Then hopefully it's time for lunch, then nap for toddler. Then do more school with 7 and 9 yo. Then rest time for them while you play with the toddler and 5 yo. Then the 4 of them play together while you clean/make dinner/whatever. I don't know, it's just a suggestion, but the ideas come from Managers of Their Home where you schedule out what everyone is doing and assign your olders to play with your youngers so you can get schooling done. I'm not an expert, because as you can see, my oldest is only five and I only have 3 kids. It's probably not as difficult to juggle as 4. And never, ever, ever have that toddler give up nap time. If he never knows it's an option, he should just keep on going to his crib, even if you give him a few toys to play with. That's why I don't move my kids out of their crib until they're 3. They're a little more easy to reason with by then. ETA: http://www.1plus1plus1equals1.com/TotSchoolIdeas.html and http://1plus1plus1equals1.blogspot.com/2008/08/minute-by-minute-tot-school.html And yes, I hear the chaos is always there.

Am I right in thinking you are LDS? Would you feel comfortable enough with your bishop (even though he's made some remarks) to tell him the reason you are so nervous? See if he's willing to call more people to the nursery or even you if it would make you feel better? I wouldn't feel a need to explain myself to anyone else. And you aren't the only one. I only leave my children with my mother or my brother and his wife (less often now that I have three) and one friend I really trust. My inlaws are even more picky. They only leave their children with my FIL sisters. I think my MIL even went to nursery the whole time the youngest two were in just because she didn't like the people in it. And you aren't the only one to worry. I don't even have a history like yours but the first week in January (after the time switch) we dropped my son off at nursery and since it was way past his nap time he cried. But my husband was in his branch presidency meeting, so they didn't go get him and I was upstairs playing the piano in primary. So the 2nd counselor in the primary presidency got him and was walking the halls outside the primary room with him. Only I saw him and didn't know why he was there and wondering if she didn't know who his mom was and proceeded to spend the next few minutes freaking out.

I am a big planner and a big worrier. If I could do it all over again (my oldest is five, so that's only going back a few years), I would have spent less time researching curricula for when he was five and enjoying the stage he was at. It seemed like I really wanted him to hurry and grow up so we could get started on school. My wish list of things to do with him is about a mile long: there's spelling, grammar, reading, handwriting, writing, history, science, math, French, art and music lessons, art and music appreciation, plus life skills, PE, and field trips. If that's not enough to burn someone out, I don't know what would be. So when it came time to actually start, I wished I was perfect enough to get to all that, but just knew it wouldn't happen. So I started with the three things that HAD to be done every day: reading, writing, and math. Since we just started on Monday, everything's going fine. When we get in this routine, I'll start adding in another subject, probably history or science. And not in a formal way, but with SOTW and BFSU and lots of read alouds to go along with it (my son loves books and I could read to him all day and he'd be happy). So how does a perfectionist jump in? Start with the bare minimum and then add one thing at a time until you get to your "ideal". And stay away from the desire to buy everything in sight because its promises sound good. Start with the recommendations in WTM (no need to reinvent the wheel) and keep going with them if they work. Only switch if you absolutely have to. This was a fear I recently ran into with Math. I had chosen MUS because it would theoretically work for visual, auditory and tactile learners. Plus it has enough teacher support (math scares me) to not scare me. After I bought it, I found out (on this board) about other programs' that sounded "better". After freaking out a very long time about how he was going to be dumb in math because I'd chosen the wrong curriculum, I had to let it go. He's more likely to have struggles in math if I keep switching curricula. MUS is a perfectly good curriculum and it works for both of us and if he continues to "only" do one level a year, he'll still end up with PreCalc at graduation. And hopefully he'll be better at it than most high school graduates. And if math is not his thing, I won't worry about it too much either. I found that I can't try to live vicariously through him and make sure he's absolutely perfect at everything I am imperfect at. He'll have his strengths and weaknesses and the beauty of homeschooling is that I can tailor to both. (I also bought a lot of SWB mp3 downloads and listened to them and found out WHY they recommend a lot of the stuff they do ie, why science isn't too experiment heavy in 1st grade, why copy work is so important, etc. I would suggest you listen to some of these; they were money very well spent for me to calm my nerves).

Thanks for the help, I feel better. Everyone says it's normal for boys to lag behind in writing, I just didn't know until recently that I should be working on fine motor skills in the meantime. And don't worry, WWE is way down on the list right now. It said in the front not to do it until he can write without having to concentrate on it. I figure we're probably a year or two away from that, which is totally fine with me. I want to make sure he gets handwriting down first.

I have decided to focus on the 3 Rs. DS is so good at reading and the MUS Primer is still very easy for him. Months and months ago, we were working on handwriting and letters. I drew the lines on the white board and explicitly explained how to create each letter (ie, Start at the top, make a diagonal line to the bottom, go back to the top, make a diagonal line to the bottom, go straight across at the middle line). Then he'd have to use a pen to copy it on his writing paper. Insert long break of dealing with 3rd trimester, maniac toddler, husband working 50+ hours a week. Schooling fell to the wayside especially writing because it was his least favorite and I figured, "Oh maybe he's just not ready. I don't want to 'crush his love of learning' so I won't make him do it. We can come back to it later, reading is most important anyway." Now that baby's 6 weeks old I figure we should be doing the 3 R's every day. Math is still fine, reading is still fine. And after my thread about coloring, I realize how important it is to build those hand muscles. And after the threads about skills and content, I realized how important it is that he learns how to write. I got the Writing With Ease books, looked through it and realized he won't be ready for that for at least a year, so I put it aside. I got A Reason for Writing, but he can't even copy the letters very well and it's just awful when he does it on his own. So I got the little white board out and drew the lines and tried making him copy on those. But he's holding his hand up in the air, I guess so he doesn't smudge the marker. So I made him do it on paper and he's moving the pencil funny, holding it in more of a fist, still holding his hand in the air. And I tried to correct him, but it was just making him more confused and doing other weird things. I was getting frustrated so I said, "let's just stop, mommy doesn't know how to teach you this properly." So then we moved on to coloring. It was the French flag out of Galloping the Globe. That's only two colors, I figured it should be easy! I said, "Try to make sure you stay inside the lines." So then he only did his scribble in the very center of each rectangle. So I said, "Make sure you color the whole thing." So when he inevitably went outside the lines and freaked out, I said, "It's ok. Look I accidentally did too." So then he purposefully started scribbling outside the line so I said, "Don't do it on purpose. Try to stay in the lines, but if you accidentally go out it's ok." I haven't ever really given him instructions on coloring before, but with the "scribble, turn page, scribble, turn page" that he usually does, I figured he might not really know what he's supposed to do. :banghead: What am I doing wrong? Should I just give the coloring thing more time before I even attempt handwriting again? Should I do both simultaneously? I could go back to the white board and paper, but he hated it and I hate having to set it up every day. We have stamps that I could stamp onto his paper and just have him trace those, but we only have the capital letters, not lower case. And why the heck is this even so hard? :banghead: It's HANDWRITING for pity's sake! It's the easiest subject out there. Why can't I teach it right? Would HWOT be a better program for him? Is there another program that would work? I didn't think I'd really need an actual curriculum to teach him how to write his letters.

my mom liked to dip cotton balls in chocolate.

ordering curriculum off amazon?:leaving: haha no, I'm done ordering, but we only have one package left, I'll probably be a little sad when it gets here, knowing more won't be coming for a looooong time

Thank you, I needed that. I just ordered all my curriculum and it's started arriving and I got so excited. Then started wondering if I made the right choices and maybe a different one would have been better or "wow, this is a lot of stuff, how can I do all this?" He's FIVE!!!! You're so right, I definitely needed the message to relax today. I already knew I was going to add in one thing at a time, but seeing it all here makes me super nervous and gives me a "this is it, no more playing around" feeling

This would be enough for me to not want any more. In fact, it is the reason I don't want to have anymore. I am not the same person when I'm so sleep deprived and exhausted and I will not put my children through it again, even if it's temporary. However, that's just me. Only you know how bad it is during this stage, but this would be my biggest concern. Homeschooling would not really be a problem, you could find a way, make a way, take a break, watch videos, whatever, it could work. And DH may want more, but most of the burden would fall on you. If you aren't 100% on board, you may want to wait until you are.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: That is so sad that a grown man would act like that.

Thanks everyone, it looks like this might be one of those, "Well it just depends on the individual person" things. But I am glad to know that the Mirena doesn't necessarily cause worse depression. There are some reasons why we don't think this would be a good idea. Without getting into the TMI zone, I'll just say he'd rather not.

Definitely start slow and baby step it. Also, I've found that overcooking brown rice and whole grain pasta make them more palatable to me. I use extra water in the rice cooker for brown rice and cook ww pasta for MUCH longer than it says on the box. There's a weird texture, but you can hide/get used to that. And don't make brown and white rice in the same pot, the results are awful.

I went in to the OBGYN today to discuss getting a tubal. He was very hesitant about it, since I'm only 26. I am 99% certain I don't want any more children. I have depression issues that get a million times worse when I'm pregnant or dealing with a newborn. He said if I really thought it best, he would do the tubal, but that I am young and things could change. Everything he told me, I've already thought of and I'm still pretty sure. He did bring up IUDs and said he would rather I try those because it'll ease my worries, but I can change my mind whenever I want. I am willing to go this route, just in case I do change my mind. What I want to know is if anyone has ever had any issues with depression and being on Mirena? I'm worried about the hormones in it making depression worse. The doctor said that it's usually the estrogen in birth control that make women moody and Mirena doesn't have estrogen. But I'm considering the ParaGard copper IUD just in case. The only negative he said about it is that it can increase monthly flow, which doesn't seem like that big a deal to me. My midwife said I'm anemic, so I've been taking Floradix, so I can't imagine that being a problem. Thoughts? DH says either way is up to me.

I get up at five am, but that's because Chuck is only a month old and I have to feed her :D I've heard some people get up 15 minutes earlier for a week until they get used to that. Since you're already getting up at 6, it would only be 4 weeks.

1st labor-40 hours 2nd labor-about 14ish hours (hard to say, because I knew labor would be starting soon, so I ran around cleaning and cooking like a mad woman and wasn't paying attention to when labor actually started) 3rd labor-6 hours None of them were induced. But with all three of mine, I've gotten a sign that labor would be starting soon, so I've never had the worry that you have.

I put the extra in the freezer. And our bread's never stuck around long enough for us to find out how long it takes to go bad. :D But I hear that Dough Enhancer helps keep it from getting too crumbly if it's still around after two days.

I had one hospital birth. I disliked the fact that the nurses were the ones doing all the work, but didn't have time to stay with me forever and then had to switch shifts. I did get one nurse who was just remarkably amazing. My OB was out of town that weekend and the on call doctor whom I didn't even know came in two seconds before I pushed. She was a very nice lady and I much preferred her over my regular doctor. But I also disliked staying in the hospital for two days having to deal with all their policies. My next two births were at home, with a tub. I also used the Hypnobabies course that Veritaserum linked to, in fact I think she was my instructor. My second labor was very much painless until pushing. I had labored in the tub, but gotten out to push. Pushing was 9 minutes of H-E-double hockey sticks. Stitching was also not pleasant (something to consider if you've torn with your previous babies). My third labor was also at home, but I did end up with a water birth. Right before pushing I knew I could get out and it would be more painful but over quicker or I could stay in and it might take a little longer, but it wouldn't hurt as bad. I chose to stay in and let me just say, water birth is better. Chuck did need oxygen after she was born, whether this was because she was born in the water or because of something else, I really don't know. But it was a relief to me that my midwife had it. And I almost ended up with a pitocin shot because of blood loss, but it quickly died down before that so my midwife didn't feel like she needed to. I prefer birthing at home because I don't want to have to travel in the car while in labor or shortly after having given birth. Obviously if there was an emergency I would have, but I am right across the street from the hospital, so I felt very safe where I was. There are pros and cons to each. Good luck with your pregnancy and with your labor.

I am taking Rhodiola, I get it at Good Earth. Also, I find the words to this hymn very comforting and helpful when I'm depressed. Maybe keeping a gratitude journal? There's always something to be thankful for and looking at the glass as half full seems to help. :grouphug:

Glad everything worked out in the end, although the three days of labor...:grouphug::grouphug: Congratulations!

Thanks Jean! I'm so excited I'll probably be taking pictures to document these momentous occasions. I've gotten about 5 shipping notices and that's not even half the order yet! Now I just need to stop second guessing my choices and wondering, "Is this the best one? Maybe I should have gotten ___":glare: