but the books are scattered throughout about 20 different "branches". Still, I'm mulling over how to have a "library sciences" time on Fridays (normally our light day). I thought about starting by having them make a map of our local library - noting what type of books/cd's/music/magazines are where. Then, my next objective would be to get them to use the reference materials to look up history related subjects (atlases, encyclopedias, primary source books in the reference sections). My still-in-progress plan is to read the whole SOTW chapter on Friday morning, having them "take notes" of key names, places, events; discuss what they'd liked to know more about; and then use their lists of names to do their own "research" in the library that day. And, hopefully, then we'll grow to checking out all the different kind of books Jessie lists in her Prologue in WTM (Mine is on p.6). I'm debating if this means we'll no longer have time for Read-Alouds, and I'm not sure how willing I am to give that up. Guess we'll cross that bridge if we ever get to it! ;) If you have any ideas, I would love to hear them, too! Thanks for sharing! It is so encouraging to remember all you other moms out there putting forth the same effort when I'm having one my desperately-needing-chocolate days!!!! Have a great weekend~ Rhonda

I was really afraid I would get burned if I posted. You wrote: The essence what I am thinking is that WTM provides a guide for parents to inspire children who love to learn, and equip them with the tools to do so. It has taken me a couple of years to begin to figure out that WTM methods for teaching history have less to do with history than with inspiring a love of history and equipping children to pursue their interests. It's easy, especially in the grammar years, I think, to focus on filling their minds with facts; to some degree this is important because it provides them with touchstones to inspire further learning, but I think the methods have as much or more to do with the process of learning than the content. Once they master the process, they can learn anything :iagree: Though I am still very much in the process of "figuring (that) out"!!! It is a hard vision to keep alive, and I thank you for sharing this journey with me. Rhonda

and for subjects that I have a broad, over-arching pre-knowledge of, that's great. (Unfortunately, that would be... music.) I don't have years of hs'ing, but this year has been a *great* year thanks to momof7's wonderful how-to-plan threads last year! And, other than history and science, my goals were more along the lines of, "Master the concepts in (insert textbook)." There was one textbook which simply wasn't helping my child master the concepts they were teaching, so I switched. But, I simply don't have time to re-invent the wheel and write my own curriculum. And so, since I have average kids, I try to choose something that maybe isn't the hardest, but isn't continually dumped on for being too lax - kind of average like them. I do get what you're saying, I think. I do hold them to mastering the curriculum I choose. It isn't enough for me to give my dc the book and say, "Do this." (And, I know someone IRL who very much accepts that as ok.) NO - I am there teaching; ensuring that the information isn't being read without comprehension and that it has reached a place where it can be recalled when needed. :) Rhonda ETA: I do have some long-term goals, I guess. But mostly, they aren't "mine" - I borrowed them from WTM. =)

but, (if you don't mind me just spilling out all my thoughts here since I don't blog and it's almost 3am :)) I tell ya, I almost wish I had the guts to just leave SOTW and the AG behind. (And, I'm going to really de-emphasize them ALOT next year - tho, I can't bear to think of parting with them completely!) And the reason is - my boys are basically library-illiterate. I have given us every excuse - the baby, being new to hs'ing, the toddler, their seeming inability to understand the definitions of "quiet" and "sit still". And I have relied so heavily on book lists and catalogs and SOTW that the kids haven't gone to the library and looked up info on ANYTHING this year. I even pick out their "free-reading" books because when they face the library they just die inside - they literally turn pale! It's just so much easier for me to go online and order what we'll need in advance and run in and pick it up. Then last week, while I was waiting to pick up my holds, I saw a mother of 3 little boys and a baby (sleeping baby - mine never slept!) walking calmly through the library, looking through the Juvenile non-fiction books. She came out with books on warships or something, and her boys sat down at a table and started reading and had their papers and pencils ready while she went through the Adult non-fiction books. And, I was just crushed to see such a successful reality of what I had envisioned when I first read WTM, but I've never been able to make that happen. I know SOTW has given my family a great gift, and I am so very thankful for the journey we've had the last 2 1/2 years. But I think the original WTM vision was - I don't know - but it wasn't "how do I condense 42 chapters into 36 weeks?". It was more like "take this sparse list of names and events and go help your dc discover for themselves; and - hey - if it's not there, just go on to the next thing." And, *I* have learned how to teach myself, but I haven't taught that to my kids. So, when you recommended the ATTA, I was thinking, "Oh. wow, this is great!" ~ looking ahead to highschool/middleschool history. But, then the reality of "It's still *me* doing the 'doing' of school" hit me like a ton of bricks; and I wonder will I ever break free of this need to plan every detail. And, I'm sorry Laurie. I hope you don't feel I've jumped all over you! I have been stewing about this for awhile. And, I have been really thinking lately that the first edition actually "supercedes" the new "SOTW-way" not in teaching history, per se, but in other, less "test-able" ways. And I tho't about just deleting this, so plesase feel free to ignore! Rhonda

maybe now that I have a couple of years of this under my belt, that wasn't nearly so intimidating as I remember! I didn't even remember them having actual "literature" as opposed to historical fiction. Of course, since we'll be heading into modern times, I guess it's all becoming one and the same, huh? :001_smile: Rhonda

Really, seriously. And, I did go through and see which ones had bio's available at the library this year (year 3). And, I put check-marks besides their names, and that's about it......I do check the books listed in the AG against our library's database for just about about every chapter. I think there's just so much more out there now - with SOTW and the AG especially - than there was when WTM first came out. So, I imagine if I were using *just* Usborne, that list would be put to better use. For lit, I've been using straight WTM - (but you'll see in my post to Susan I'm a bit perplexed about how to straddle a 5th grader doing Modern Lit next year). If the library had the grammar-stage book, I'd use theirs. But, we had to buy A LOT anyway. And, I bought all the logic-stage books. (That way I could make notes in them.) hth, Rhonda

Susan, Next year my boys will be in 5th and 8th for the Modern Period. And, I am stymied when it comes to lit for my 5th grader. On the "old" website, you had posted this: 7) Remember that the reading texts listed in the chapters on reading and writing (chapters 5, 17, and 26) are basically the same in level of difficulty for the entire four-year-period in which they appear. In other words, all grammar-stage books recommended in the reading chapter are at the difficulty level generally associated with Grades 2-4. Thus, a third-grader can read the books listed for Ancients (First Grade) or the books listed for Modern (Fourth Grade), depending on what year of history he is studying. A sixth grader can do the Medieval / Early Renaissance (Sixth Grade) or Late Renaissance / Early Modern (Seventh Grade) readings with equal ease. And, I scrolled down to your example, and think I did right by having my 4th grader read the 3rd grade list this year. But, your example doesn't state what to do for 5th grade modern lit - it only mentions 5th grade history. Though it does have the 6th grader reading the 7th grade list, the 8th grade list seems like a big stretch for a 5th grader who doesn't just LOVE reading (tho' admittedly, I'm not terribly familiar with the books yet). We haven't read some of the 4th grade books. So, maybe we should do the non-abridged 4th grade books, and then attempt *some* of the 8th grade? (if so, can you please tell which ones would be easiest?) Or, should I just peruse Honey for a Child's Heart and the SOTW-AG? I also have quite a few of the 8th-grade books in abridged versions, so I thought about doing those. Or, do you think we should just jump in and do the originals all together? Thank you for everything! I can't wait to see you in Atlanta this summer! Rhonda

One thing I liked about Sonlight was that there was a specific amount that needed to be read each day, and questions to answer (so you could be sure it *was* read!). We haven't done Sonlight this year, but I still assign a specified amount to be read each day, and I pre-read and jot down a few questions for each section in the back of the book. Yes, sometimes I assign too much, and sometimes too little. Thankfully all my plans are in pencil! But, having a specific amount gives my ds a goal, and lets him know I have a definite expectation. I do *not* expect him to enjoy it, but I do expect "this much" to be done. And, because I know I have really tried my best to not be a complete ogre in my expectations, I am less likely to cave in when life seems to be deteriorating rapidly and we both become a bit emotional. :tongue_smilie: I have also found that sometimes my ds doesn't quite "get" everything. But even so, he still gets the gist of it. So, I try to use my questions simply as discussion starters and not phrase them as right-or-wrong remembering details questions. If he can discuss ANYTHING about the book, then I can tell that, yes, he's done it. So, my ds chooses to sulk and complain about reading sometimes, so what? He's 10. It's the same as sulking and complaining about anything else - the more I pay attention to it, the worse he sulks and complains. If I can just detach myself from what is truly his problem and say, "Well, it has to be done before xyz," without letting it affect *my* emotional well-being, then that usually solves it. (note the *if* - this is an area of myself I constantly have to monitor!) Best wishes! Rhonda

These look interesting. I'd love to hear from someone who's seen them.

the wife of the Lord of the Castle (the Green Knight) tries three times to seduce Sir Gawain. Think of the sl*ttiest pop-music song you can think of - she was *quite* forward would be an understatement. We read the first part of Tolkien out loud and enjoyed it until we got to the "touch my body" parts. Just too much for a boy whose hormones were ***raging*** at the time. There is also a lot of symbolism that is hard to grasp even after reading about them online, just because we don't associate the symbols with the particular ideas they represent in the poem. We did find a more middle-school appropriate book at the local library - by Michael Morpurgo. I'll try to link here: http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Michael-Morpurgo/dp/0763625191/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210247536&sr=8-1 We also really enjoyed the Sonlight selections for Medieval/Rennaisance in addition to the WTM selections. hth, Rhonda

nt

My advice is that no matter which curriculum you choose, set aside a separate time each day to get the basic math facts down. That will go such a long way in getting your child "on grade level"; and until the facts are down, dc will have a hard time with math. And, don't be afraid to just slow down - or even stall - if you need to. Best wishes!! Rhonda

I agree with SWB's "just read for awhile" when you get behind. I'm still working on the "take as much time as you want on subjects that interest you" since I like to be on schedule. But, life happens, and sometimes we have to double-up SOTW anyway just to fit 42 chapters into 36 weeks. Those weeks we usually just read and discuss.

at the end of 7th grade. I just looked through R&S-8 last night and - whew! - it looks *so* less over-whelming than the 7th grade book did this year. My plan is to finish R&S-8 in 8th grade, because we also use it for our writing program. When it's spread out (which is ok - I'm not saying it's not), I would think you would *have* to have a separate writing program. So, *if*, say my 2nd dc can't handle R&S-7 in a year, I'll probably switch back to Abeka for grammar and use the Wordsmith series and/or Writing Strands. I may switch to Abeka for high school at any rate - the R&S 9th & 10th grade books don't get a lot of props even from die-hard R&S users. :) Rhonda

I know that you were using CW for your model, but - wow - that's a really long story! There's so much to hold in your head and have to think about while trying to write "correctly". I can't imagine my 4th grader trying to follow that long of a timeline in one narration. I even make a point of limiting his writing to one well-constructed paragraph at a time. I know our philosophies/methods are different. (I have CW languishing in my attic right now.) But, could you possibly let her dictate to you, then copy her work? Or break it up into (at least) two days' work? (I would do a paragraph a day - but I'm a bit of a wimp.) I really do hate that all our original Veggie-Tales were on VHS, and given away when our last VCR bit the dust. I always think of the Battle of Jericho bit whenever I see "peaple", but it's been so long all the funny lines are fading fast from my ever-aging brain! :grouphug: Rhonda ETA: So glad that so far everyone on your other post agrees these are "normal" errors. (Did you read my kid's narrations below?) FWIW, I really try not to worry about spelling or commas. It will come. My older ds had to get past the "raging onset of hormones" before it came - and I was told by Jean in Wisc that sometimes that's what it takes. The logic side of the brain will kick in, and she'll become more aware of *everything* - including her writing.

I've been wanting to *do* something to help, and this is perfect! By the way, I just now realized who you are/were from the old board - I'd been wondering what had happened to you - LOL! Your family is just beautiful, and your foundation is just inspiring. I don't know how you manage it all! :) Rhonda

=) Oh, if we could just add "withought" and "Peaple" to the dictionary, my kids' spelling would impove by leaps and bounds!!! Hang in there! Rhonda

and now-a-days the accelerated kids who have always been bored in regular classes are demanding they be allowed access to challenging classes. Our school system is also offering Algebra to many 7th graders. I don't think it's "standard" - but it's certainly a much larger percentage than those in my middle school who took Algebra in *8th*. The snag that isn't touted quite so loudly is that the high schools are also offering Algebra 1 spread out over two years (with two years worth of credit). So, see, I think what they're really doing is trying to meet everyone where they're at rather than forcing them to conform to a "one size fits all". It think it's certainly admirable, though (just like reading this board sometimes) it can make the "average" appear as "less-than". I would do what's best for you and your dc. Of course, I say this even though I'm currently worried about the new high school maths being offered here integrating Algebra, Geometry and *Statistics* over 3 years rather than sticking to a more traditional sequence (where do I find *Statistics* anyway?!?!?!?) :) Rhonda

my ds wouldn't be able to spell those words, either. I try to make a list of proper names and places for him (and sometimes that doesn't help!). He just doesn't have the where-withal to look them up in SOTW for himself! Sometimes (rarely) I do this in advance. Usually I write them on a sheet of paper or a small-ish whiteboard while we read. (yeah, that means he's not reading it for himself, yet, either - ugh! there's always more to be done, isn't there?) :) Rhonda

4th grade ds (edits in parentheses to help you understand only!) - very average, but highly active kid - These are not ones we have re-worked in grammar/dictation time. Nat Turners Rebellion Nat Turner was a slave living in virgina at a plantation. He was a black minister. Nat Turner thought that God wanted him to bring slave freedom. An eclipse happened and that made him think it was time to battle. When he was preaching he talked about black souls and white souls in battle with blood everywhere. The night of the eclipse he killed 50 white men. he was eventully foiled exacuted and in the end he just made slaves have to work harder. Now slaves could not own guns, ministers couldn't preach, meet, or even pay to buy their freedom. They were also not allowed to learn to read or write. (on Bolivar and Venezuela) At first (all) Bolivar wanted was a new country then he wanted to be the king of South America. Everything went wrong after words he kept getting greedy greedier and greedier his greed lead his downfall. (on Trail of Tears) A long time ago there was the Indian Removal act and the 7th presedent Andrew Jackson even thought of the idea. There were actully five civilized tribes Chickitaw, Chocktaw, Creek, Seminole, and cherokee. It said he the Presedent could just take away land from any indian tribe he wanted. the cherekee were almost all wiped out because of the trail of tears. ***** Lest you give up hope, it will get better. My older son (now in 7th) couldn't write nearly that much (and no where *near* that well) in 5th grade, and here's his summary of Shaka Zulu just a few weeks ago He edited, but I did not - he did end it at exactly one page, because that assignment said "one page", so it ends rather abruptly. We are working now on looking through old narrations and dividing them into proper paragraphs, but this is his "original": Africa was not a peaceful country when Shaka was ruling. By the time he died, two million people had died from ten years of fighting. The English sometimes called Africa the "Dark Continent" because it felt like peering into a dark room of history. The Africans could not write, so much of their history is lost. However Shaka's history was written by a few English merchants. We know of his childhood and of his mother. Shaka was born in the Zulu tribe, but he and his mother were shunned because of a rumor: that Shaka's father's and mother's clans were too close for marriage. Both of them had to flee to Mtetwa where Shaka grew up. Shaka's fame grew, and the King of Mtetwa ordered him to recapture and rule the Zulu tribe. Shaka didn't even have to fight. The Zulus were so scared; they made him chief instantly. Now the first thing Shaka did was to kill anyone who had wronged him in the past. Then he improved his soldiers. He made them fight in a formation and gave them short spears for stabbing. This ends Shaka's story, for the most part, for now the mfecane starts. *********** Anyway, hope that helps! I tell my boys all the time that the worst part of homeschooling is that they cannot hear other kids' ideas and writing. It is always interesting to me how different kids pick up on different parts of the story, or express things *so* differently than I would. I think alot of writing is "caught, not taught", and I've often wanted to post the same request, but was too chicken! Rhonda

and that for the answers. You do not need the Curriculum Guide (the day-by-day lesson plans). You could easily switch to Abeka; I don't think it would be "wrong" at all. But, I'm wondering, did your dear friend add in a writing program to her 15-20 minutes/day? If it takes 20 minutes to do the Abeka, and then you do a separate writing program such as Wordsmith or Jump-In, wouldn't your total time be approximately the same? (Of course, we switched from Abeka in 5th to R&S in 6th and now 7th - so, we're on a different journey. The Abeka did not have the built-in review (even using the Curriculum guide), and my ds really needed that.) Best wishes! Rhonda

As a ps teacher before kids, the first year was pure h*ck -it was constant planning and doing and planning some more. Not just during "planning" time, but ALL the time! The second year was easier- I re-used at least 1/2 my lessons (only this time I knew what would work and what wouldn't AND I got to re-use most of my bulletin boards - YAY!!!!!! The third year was pure joy! I re-used at least 3/4th of my lessons - if not more - AND had time to peruse other, extra "stuff" that would be inspiring and yet "easy". (And, I didn't have to make ANY new bulletin boards.) The fourth year I quit half-way through thanks to ds#1. Just when I had it down to a science. I still wonder if I made the wrong decision! My point is being a homeschool mom is like being a first-year teacher EVERY YEAR!!!!!! And, I guarantee you he wasn't as good his first year as he is now. Besides, I don't have enough hair as it is to even think about setting it on fire! :lol: I haven't read the book - just the title sounds depressing enough as it is! Rhonda

I haven't. But, the samples for The Colors look like they're much more "wordy". There is a sample lesson for both describing molecules, atoms, protons, etc. and the Rainbow *looks* much easier, with much less detail than the Colors. Of course, not having it here in hand, it's hard to know and compare. Any thoughts? Thanks, Rhonda

Actually, I will try to post about LCII next week. This week I realized *I* just turned 40 as well, and have never *ONCE* planted my own tomatoes and peppers. Time to grow up and do the things I've always dreamed of before it's too late, right? Anyway - about Critical Thinking - we were fine sitting on the couch reading the lesson and just talking about it until we got almost half-way through Book 1. This was last year (6th grade), and I'm trying to remember exactly what it was that threw us. We did try to go back to it more than once, and just never were successful. (OK - coming back to this - I think we got to a point where many of the examples were using high school students/problems as examples. Since my ds didn't have any practical knowledge of what the examples were talking about (graduation requirements and how they're phrased, for example), it was becoming a "culture" class - and not necessarily always the kind of culture I wanted him to be exposed to.) Anyway, I had been posting back and forth with Jean in Wisc about writing at the beginning of that year, and she mentioned that she really liked the Dandy Lion Logic series for middle school, and so many other people seemed to agree; it was pretty cheap, so I decided to try that for this year (7th grade). The difference in presentation was *so* substantial. I have barely glanced at Intro/Logic since I got it in, but I think in all honesty that the DLL will have prepared him well. It may not cover *everything* that CT does, but it does cover quite a lot, and it covers beginning logical notation, syllogisms, and errors in thinking (and other stuff, too, but those are the things that it will be nice to have had exposure to before hitting Intro/Logic from the very little bit I've seen). I'm sure Jean or someone else could probably answer better than I! At any rate, though I do help him over some hurdles in DLL, I basically had to drag him kicking and screaming through CT to the point where every question was "I don't know, Mom." At that point, it just seemed to be crushing him rather than helping. As for the Logic DVD's - with trying to do Algebra next year (and *maybe* RS Spanish), and Logic becoming more of a real "class" rather than a 10-minute/day "fun time", I figured I better start looking at some of those "alternative" methods of teaching. But honestly, just looking at the book to think of how to best answer your question, it doesn't really seem like it would be that difficult to do without them. :auto: Keep on truckin' Rhonda

OH, hon!!! What a yucky time of year this is. My "Abeka-mom" friend is finished for the year. So, now her ds doesn't even wait until 10am to call my ds and harass him about why he's not finished with his work yet :glare:. So, I haven't even looked at next year's stuff - bleck!!!! But, I am going to post an LCII help list once we're through - things I wish I'd have known at the beginning of this year. (Things to mark, chants, etc.) Maybe that will help LCII feel a bit more like LCI for you. (I remember feeling completely lost starting LCII.) hint, hint, nudge, nudge, wink, wink: Can I gently encourage you to opt for the DandyLion logic books instead of Critical Thinking? If not, would you like my copies of CT? ;) I can't really add anything more than what Jennifer and Jean already said. I'm not one to learn things ahead of time (tho' I do try to pre-read all their literature and answer the WEM questions for myself). My older ds gets a bit frustrated with me sometimes, but I really do read his math and grammar with him (most days anyway), because that way I can question him as we go and learn it all at once. And, if you ever get stuck in Latin or Logic, you can always post here. I've had to do so more than a few times, and I've always been amazed at how fast someone responds. :D R&S-7 was *very* overwhelming as I looked through it last July/August. I really doubted we would could it. But, one lesson at a time it's not really so bad. Same with math. I plan on watching the Intro Logic DVD's with him next year, too. The other thing I've done is drop Spanish for now. I'd really love to add in Rosetta Stone next year - but we're already adding quite a bit of time with the Logic and starting Henle, so Spanish will probably just get put off til high school - when we'll probably do SOS. Now, homeschooling and having a clean house and laundry......:lol:.....there, I can't help ya! :grouphug: You can do it, babe! Rhonda