I don't use what you're using... but, my 7th grader writes two history-related "reports" based on SOTW stories each week. Those average about a page each (he has started using college-ruled paper and they're about 3/4ths of one of those). He writes out the answers to his science study guide in complete sentences - this is about two pages every other week. He also has been writing up the labs in paragraph form (usually 2-3 paragraphs) on the "off" week from the study guide. He writes a page-long narration/evaluation or book report (the last one was 2 pages) at the end of almost every novel we've read (we do one about every 2 weeks). He writes out most of the exercises in Rod & Staff as his "copywork" - about a page a day. And, he does their writing exercises. So, he is writing just about every day - at least a page. I didn't start out last year at that amount - it's been a steady but gradual increase from "write a paragraph" to "write a page". But, no, I don't think what you've listed is too much. I think the more you do, the easier it will be for her. If she can't do a page, do a paragraph until she can do a paragraph well and not fuss about it. Then do two. Then three - that's about a page. If you have to sit and "take notes" for her and help her plan that paragraph, that's ok, too. We don't do this all perfectly - sometimes I still help him plan, and I don't expect perfection on every page, but slow and steady is making a big difference here. :grouphug: Rhonda

I keep them safely boxed away, so I can go look at them whenever I get CW-envy. I know if I sell them, I'll end up buying them again!! :lol: Rhonda

It really is a matter of knowing your own kids (and yourself) well enough. I am personally drawn to CW, but I'm learning that I can't push my phlegmatic kids as hard as I could have pushed my A-type-personality-self. ;) But, given different kids (DD is 3yo and seems to be more like me - Yeah!), well....who knows? (That's why I'm not offering my CW to anyone for a look-see.) :) Rhonda

It is how to continue your logic study with rhetoric/writing. The specific book that covers the progym is Corbett's "Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student", and it is discussed (tho' briefly) on p. 468 in the Revised WTM. hth, Rhonda

I don't see why you would throw out an entire curriculum that you'd like to use for next year because of one or two books that are years away. Especially with SL - who knows if those books will still be one the list by the time your dc is ready for the high school cores? And, by the time your child is old enough for that core, you may appreciate that SL gives you a "safe" place to discuss some of those issues with your dc. (One heads up: Catherine Called Birdy in Core 6 is certainly not graphic, but does mention s*x. It could have been easily skipped over, and it was embarrassing at first to talk about what was going on with my then-12yo, but it has opened up a line of communication that has helped him tremendously as he is facing and over-coming his own temptations.) :) Rhonda

will take you through the progym. So, there's no reason to feel like if you miss the CW-time-schedule, your children are destined to never experience the benefits of the progym exercises. Also, one thing that many CW-users do not make prominent is that quite a few people who use CW (the author, Lene, and some users here, anyway) do not schedule science. (Lene does science in the summer according to a post on the CW Website.) It is not that CW isn't a great writing and grammar program, but it is very time-consuming. I have Aesop and Homer here, but simply could not sacrifice other things to make it a reality here. I think if you really, really believe in the program you will be willing to drop something (maybe science, maybe something else) to make it happen (or school year-round). If you can't honestly see yourself letting go of something in order to make CW happen, then you might want to try to find another program. (I say that, but then, I had to buy Aesop and Homer and make a trial run at it before my curiosity was satisfied, so don't feel bad if you do that, either!) Best wishes! It's a hard decision. Rhonda

at the end of every test. So, that would be a place where your dd's could practice writing/narration. Even tho' I quit using the tests, I often "steal" that question and have my 10yo answer it rather than "narrate" the entire story. Best wishes! It must be very difficult dealing with two so close together, both trying to "narrate" the same story at the same time. :grouphug: Rhonda

We used KQ last year in 6th grade, and their logic-stage plans are very, very good. (Since I decided to get the SOTW-AG this year, I just used those maps this year) I haven't seen the Uncle Josh maps, but the Geography Coloring book is mostly coloring the boundaries of the current countries. There are a few climate maps to color and a few "empires of the past" to color. Each country/map/empire has an essay telling about it - in very small print. And, not very "fun". I guess what I'm trying to say is that the KQ maps will show the "lay of the land" as it was during the time period you are studying for almost every topic you study. The Geography Coloring Book will only do that for the "big" empires (Greek, Roman, Ottoman, etc.) hth, Rhonda

We went through Book One of SS pretty fast. At first, we did just one list a day. But, as he grew accustomed to doing it, I would combine two lists at once by alternating between them (since they're basically the same words, just with different suffixes). We also did spelling twice a day - simply turned to another section in the book (like, start on Lesson 1 and also Lesson 60 on the same day, I hope that makes sense, it's hard to explain in words :confused:) As he grew more and more confident, and began associating letter combinations with specific sounds, I would even combine a whole week's worth of words into one day's list. So, I think we got most of Book Two, and a bit of Book Three done before we stopped. I'm not sure exactly how long it took for R&S-5. I think that was something we did for a few weeks into the summer to be sure that we finished the book. We did skip R&S-6, but if he hadn't improved so much, I wouldn't have skipped. (He did have the benefit of over-hearing his younger brother's phonics and spellings lessons :D) I also think that all the reading and the read-alouds we did that year really helped build a framework for him he hadn't really had before, so I would really encourage you to read, read, read as well as work on spelling. hth, Rhonda

much the same circumstances - I started hs'ing my now-7th grader in 5th grade, and spelling was horrible. We started with Sequential Spelling (I heard about it before I'd heard of WTM or R&S). Then, one day after about 3 or 4 months, he told me it was "pointless" to continue because he had figured out that every word was going to use the same spelling pattern.... BUT - SS *is* what got my dc thinking "phonetically", and that is *so* important. Then, we went into R&S-5 which teaches all the "rules". I tried to keep up the SS, but it quickly went by the way-side. (I did do some of the rules with SS after reading The ABC's and All Their Tricks - but if you'll google "spelling rules" I think most of the phonics-based rules are listed in a website somewhere. I'll try to look later.) This was a very good path for him. I think doing the SS first really did help, but I *LOVE* R&S Spelling for how well it teaches how to build words. We still have trouble with some spelling patterns which were ingrained thanks to the public school's policy of never checking for spelling, but he is now doing R&S-7 and doing well on both his tests and in his written work. hth, Rhonda

I think there's just something about ages 10-12 1/2 or so that just makes their brains go to La-La Land for a few years. I could have written the same post as OP when my kids were 7 and 10 - and I was *very* concerned (you can search the old board!). But, now that they're 13 and 10, and his hormones have settled down a bit, the older can run circles around his younger brother all day long. I also suspect some of it is that we as parents accept younger vernacular and less logic from the 7 or 8 yo, so we're easily impressed by them. But suddenly we expect much more once they begin looking "big". No concrete data to back that up, just my own knowledge that I expect so much more from my oldest in all things at all ages. :001_smile: Rhonda

I'm notorious for doing too much for my kids - and your post made me realize that if I continue doing all the legwork, that he'll never learn how to do it for himself! This year's science is already pretty much a done deal, but think I'll take your advice for physical science next year and let *him* pre-read the questions, etc. I *really* like the idea of high-lighting the book as well. That was the best thing about college (especially used books!). Thanks! Rhonda

If you'll scroll down, you'll find a thread about the ziploc bags on Paula's website. http://wtmboards.com/K8currMay292007/messages/2472.html Sorry I can't find my direct link to Paula's, but maybe it's in that thread... (:tongue_smilie: time to actually start wading through all my links - and I just added a few more after reading this thread :tongue_smilie:) Thanks to everyone for such great ideas! Rhonda

it's because I've either made out my own note-taking worksheet for him (notebook paper and pen and lots of blank space - nothing professional!) *or* I've high-lighted or underlined things he needs to take notes on. It is getting better, but esp. at the beginning of the year he had a very hard time separating the "important stuff" from the "fluff". LOL - He used to think it was ALL important; now he thinks it's all fluff! The other thing we do now is to do the On Your Own questions orally, and I try to have him answer in complete sentences and expand to include the reason for his answer. And every other day or so I orally quiz him on the Study Guide questions. I know these things defeat the independence-ness of the program, but it makes for much less stress here! Best wishes! Rhonda

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And it is much less visually "cluttered" than BJU. It is just so obvious what the student is supposed to do with R&S. My ds much prefers the R&S format (though the quantity is a bit overwhelming for him - see my question to Vicki).

We've just recently switched from BJU. My ds can do the work, but he does get overwhelmed with the amount and tends to sit there thinking about how much work it is rather than doing it (kind of like me and laundry!). I've been having him do all of Part A, but marking out about half of the review problems. Does that sound ok? (I also do about half of the Oral Review in the TM). I will try the timer thing for each section - sometimes that works and sometimes not. Thanks! Rhonda

Thanks.

that will go great in our poetry week (we can only take so much poetry at a time, ya know ;)) Thanks! Rhonda

How long did it take your ds to read Johnny Tremain? And, did he get it all on his own? We did it and Witch of Blackbird Pond as Read-Alouds, and there were parts that I think would have been over his head (esp. in Johnny). But, I worry that maybe I don't push him hard enough. I had planned on doing Mr. Bowditch as a Read-Aloud, and ran out of time. But, since both you and Dayle are recommending it, I'll have him read it instead! Think I'll save the Sean Sullivan - we'll be doing the Transcontinental Railroad next year, and that looks perfect. Thanks! Rhonda

my oldest is only in 7th grade (and I'm NOT a professional writer!)... But, last year I got very, very nervous about writing - where we were, where we were headed. So, I checked out the Rhetoric and Writing recommendations in WTM for high school. They will take you through not only a 5-paragraph essay, but also help you learn how to apply logic to your arguments, and even do the pro-gym exercises. I didn't buy the books, just looked through them on amazon. That might be enough to give you an idea of where you are and where you're going. It seems to me like the best of both worlds. We can learn our grammar while working on cross-curricular writing; and then later, once grammar is finished, have some fun working on the "polish" - the transitions, exact phrases and rhetorical techniques, using imaginative descriptions and analogies, etc. I think what *is* hard about teaching writing is that it is hard to improve your own writing. It's kind of like exercise - anyone can exercise by themselves, but in order to really train efficiently for a certain task, it certainly helps to have a coach. It's really hard to feel confident as a writing "coach" when/if you've never really been mentored in your own writing. I haven't yet seen the need for one of the online writing services, but the one thing that really stood out to me was how positively they phrased their constructive criticisms. This is where I *really* fall short!!!!!!!! I am thankful that my AP English teacher taught me *so* much, but it certainly wasn't diplomatically phrased - ;) I think it's Cindy Marsh's site (the one rec. by WTM) that even has a pro-gym class - or, you can have her grade whatever papers you choose to assign as well. I've thought about taking some of her classes myself - the old "iron sharpens iron" thought. Best Wishes! Rhonda

The original Journey to the Center of the Earth is too much for him right now, I think. But, the abridged version I have here is much too easy. So..... Since this is a boy who insists that he hates reading (though when he has assigned reading, he likes it and loves to talk about it), I'd like to choose a few books that aren't too difficult, but just stay with you for a long time after reading them, iykwim. Books that make you hurry-up to get to the end, then make you wish it wasn't over. Any ideas? :) Rhonda Edited to say: Wow, thanks! I admit I am relieved at least we've read *some* of what you all have listed, but your lists really make me see that I - am - a - *WIMPY* - mom!!! OK, I admit it's hard to admit he's as old as he is.....so.....since I (blushing) have so many of the books you all suggest here (at home even - I just thought they were too much for him), I'm pulling them out and creating a summer reading basket so keep 'em coming, please!

ANY writing program will work for some kids because they are just wired for it. And, as the other posters pointed out, this company is only going to choose the best. What would have been better (IMNSHO) would have been to post "before" and "after" essays from the same students. I will say that two years ago, when my oldest was in 5th grade, he couldn't even write an intelligible sentence. Now, we're still working on punctuating some of his complex sentences, but - WHOA! - you honestly wouldn't even believe it was the same child writing now. It has been slow and steady. Well, *very* slow and kind of steady - really! Jean in Wisc and Janice in NJ really encouraged me at the beginning of his 6th grade year to do lot of modeling of how to write, and help him write, and be ok with the fact that alot of his writing was "me" for awhile. And, also to give him some grace while he's going through those really emotional times; looking back, I can tell you that once those emotions settled down a bit, the writing really took off in clarity and quantity. He's not perfect by any means, but - hey - he's only in 7th grade, right? It's not so much the program you use, but just the daily doing of it. IEW was recommended by SWB in one of the threads on this very board, so I wouldn't jump ship without giving it some considerable time to work. :grouphug: Rhonda

Or, I look for a paragraph or two that would be easily re-written and ask for a narration on just that one part. My one word of advice is to talk your dc through his "rough" draft. Take notes on your discussion, and let him use those notes. That will help with the jitters over spelling and trying to remember all the details. (And, at first, you may have to spout off some model paragraphs. I try to do 2 or 3 really fast so dc sees that there isn't a "right" way.) Best wishes! Rhonda

I tried combining the R&S w/Wordsmith (to see if I could drop some cross-curricular writing), and that was overwhelming to my ds. (It would have been the same workload or less, but in his mind if there's a book attached to "writing" then it's another subject and the world is just an unfair place to be! If it's mom coming up with history or science writing, it's just part of history or science. He's 13, what can I say?) Wordsmith teaches the same skills as R&S (as far as I could see, anyway - we're almost finished with R&S-7). But, it is much more "fun" and there is much more direction for mom in what to look for (and what to leave alone) - though there will still be lots of interaction between you and dc, you will have guidance on what to talk about. And, it comes with lessons plans (4 days a week for 36 weeks). SWB's review on the WTM website was very postive on the entire Wordsmith series. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/wordsmith.html Best of luck! Rhonda