I got my "parent's edition" of the workbook (ya know, the thing that *used* to be call a TE? - ahem!) on ebay pretty cheap. They show up on Amazon, too, you just have to be patient. There are probably a slew of other places, too. (I think someone even found the CD-Rom you mentioned on ebay - they just aren't there all the time.) Also, my ds's student's workbook was for a different version (the California vs. the regular) and it was published in a different year than the textbook we were using. But, other than an occasional question that was in one and not the other, and the order of the sections, the two versions were identical. For example, say one has sections A, B, C, D, and E - the other version might be A, B, E, D and C. But, the same titles, and the same questions within in section. It was very easy to match the two. So, I truly doubt you just *have* to have the exact publication-date match - they haven't changed the books *that* much! But, I ended up following Ria's advice (Sniff, sniff! - We miss you Ria!), and just read through each section with my dc, taking notes together according to the "As You Read" note at the beginning of each section, and then discussing the Review Questions together. That way, I learned as we went, we didn't have to worry about the workbook, and my ds's enjoyment & comprehension rapidly improved. I would definitely look over what you have in some depth and see if you can't make it work with just what you have before you buy anything else! Best wishes! Rhonda

I've been trying to think of an alternative to our usual summary/book-report writing for this book, and continuing the story with the movie sounds excellent! Thanks for the link! Rhonda

Oh, good! I will plan to read it (I'm dying to know how it all works out!), but just do the first part with the boys. If they are interested, they'll read it on their own...if not, well.... I *do* think the first part will be much better received than I had feared, but dare not push my luck, iykwim! Thanks! Rhonda

I finished the original "Little Women" (which ended when the father comes homes for Christmas and Meg & John get engaged) Then I checked Sparknotes, and realized they are including the sequel book under the title "Little Women" - so..... I really don't *want* to read the sequel now that I know Jo and Laurie do not get together! But, more importantly, do you think my boys (5th and 8th) really *need* to read the second part? I really like the review of Pilgrim's Progress in the first part, and planned to draw out *those* lessons as the "theme" of the book, whereas Sparknotes emphasizes the role of women at the time. Do the Pilgrim's Progress allusions continue through the whole story? Is the role of women something my 5th grader will really get? So, what say you? The original only, or continue with the whole thing? And, which emphasis? Thanks, Rhonda

I liked 3rd and 6th - loved Pre-Algebra, but really, really disliked 4th. *Way* too conceptual for my ds - not that he didn't "get" the concept, but he didn't like having to write it all out. (One of his points of "mom, this is just stupid": if you know that 6x8 is 48, then why do you have to write out 6x8 = 3x8 + 3x8 = 24 + 24 = 48?) The straw that broke my back was the highly confusing way they taught long division. It left WAY too much room for errors, and didn't provide a "check" until the problem was completely finished. We finished out the year with Rod & Staff (which I had here). I'm still up in the air about next year, though I will probably go back to BJU for 6th and Pre-Algebra. =0 Rhonda

I personally haven't found it very helpful. I bought it just to get a "second opinion" on how to do classical. The religious studies are easily skipped over, and were not my complaint. But, basically, it is just a book/textbook list by grade level. There are good literature and history-related literature lists, recommended poetry lists, sometimes music lists, and timelines for 4th-9th grades. (They just didn't line up with *our* plan for history - maybe they will for you!) But, these lists are not included for K-3rd or high school at all. She uses Seton quite a bit in high school, and an anthology for literature. The 10th-12th suggestions are much more "Catholic"-sounding than the earlier grades (to me, anyway). BTW, 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade is American History. 6th is Ancient Civilizations. 7th is Ancient Greece and Rome. 8th is Medieval. 9th is American History. hth, Rhonda

So, when you say "annotation" you mean writing down your thoughts, notes, etc. in the book, right? That *is* hard to teach! It's not that we never do "literary analysis", and it's certainly not lack of mom-materials - I always say it took Teaching the Classics to help me "get" Reading Strands, but it took WEM to make TtC accessible to *any* book I read! (But, I couldn't have started there.) And *I* get WEM, and I use it for myself to guide our literature discussions, and dabble down bits and pieces to my kids as they seem able to absorb/appreciate it. But, my ds isn't ready for all that, yet. Though he is making connections, and starting to see the "story behind the story" (starting!), he isn't ready to make it his own. Definitely not ready to write about "his thoughts" on the subject. He's still in the "absorbing the world around him" stage and discovering how different other people's worlds can be. He's still firmly entrenched in the one-page summary and one-or-two-sentence evaluation. But one day, he'll get bored with that and be ready to move on. This year he has seen some of *my* notes in his books, so I'm hoping that will give him a paradigm that - hey, this is ok. But, next year we are going to try to do library books. Hmmmm......I'll have two doing the WTM 8th grade Lit list, and I'm planning a little Nan-inspired, everyone listen while reading their own book time. (They are ALL on Cd at the library!) I just can't see buying books ($$$-wise). OK - I'll compromise and get sticky notes and write on them! (Sorry, I'm thinking and typing at the same time - LOL!) Again, not forcing them to write, but just letting them know more what *I* would write as an example to follow when they're ready. And, on writing (not in-the-book, but "about the book"), I haven't found WEM very helpful on that regard, which may be my own fault, so I'm definitely putting this in the margin of my WTM. Rhonda

Janice, I'm so glad you linked to this. I really needed to hear what you said about middle school literature (& plot) - what a breath of fresh air! I have been trying to "rest" and "trust" WTM in spite of the flurry of literature analysis threads awhile back. I was certain this was a high-school level skill, that we *would* get to it, and master it. But - hey, what do I know, my oldest is only going into 8th?! Thanks for the head-up. I love getting a glance at this journey from your vantage-point. Many times it seems I'm just wandering without a map! Good to "see" you! Rhonda

I've posted what we do before....but, what resonated with me about your post is how differently I am reacting to starting my younger ds in Logic-stage stuff next year. When my older was in 5th, and we had just started hs'ing, the WTM method seemed "tough", but I just kept them in mind as a goal while trying to fill in the gaps. I think we're about there, if still a bit shaky in spots - he'll be starting 8th next year. I cannot complain about the results I've seen using WTM & SOTW for history/writing/just maturing in thinking and in general. But, I admit that much of what I remember is not from the outlines and such, but from the historical fiction we've read. During our Middle Ages year, we ended up using the last half of SL Core 6 to get us through, and we kept the Read-Aloud concept this past year even tho' we did a more strict WTM approach - and I really, really do use those stories as my "hooks" for remembering history. I was thinking about this last night - and how I want my younger ds to benefit from the Readers/Read-Alouds in SL 6 & 7 while he's in the logic stage. I'm having a more difficult time feeling confident that following WTM and sprinkling in SL is the right thing for him. There is a huge part of me that wishes I could just use SL and not feel so compelled to make it fit the WTM-model. And, there is a huge part of me that wishes I could forget SL and just accept that high school and the Great Books are coming in 2009, and embrace WTM logic-stage completely as the logical choice for a tag-along middle schooler. This next year (5th and 8th) we are sort of locked into finishing the history cycle ala WTM - and I'm glad in a way. I plan to use the library more, have more independent research and reading, and we'll be reading some really great lit books (the 8th grade list in WTM). But, I'm scared. In my more pragmatic moments, I know everything will be fine. The dots do get connected, as you say. But.....I'm still scared! So, no answers, just more musings....funny tho' how it seems like it should be easier the 2nd time, but it's not - LOL! Rhonda Here's a post I made earlier on our specific plans last year and this coming year: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29533

You spoke to him directly, instead of gossiping. Now, the second step would be to talk with him along with "two or three witnesses". Then, the whole church if necessary. But, I'd probably call CPS as well. Oh, Colleen, this just breaks my heart! Rhonda

Thanks, Jenny! We are too far west & north to take advantage =(, but it is inspiring just to know they are out there. Hmmmm....guess I should take notes and start something up this way.....(sigh - that seems so beyond me right now!) Rhonda

Ereks mom, I'm planning (note: Planning, not "done") on combining Apologia Physical with the Prentice Hall Science Explorer books. Basically, what I found with General this past year is that my ds would fly through the readings. We do the On Your Own orally, which doesn't take much time, and so on days there was no experiment, he was finishing in 20 minutes or so. That just didn't seem to be enough to me, so I'm coordinating the topics in the Science Explorer books we have, and having him read those as well. I think the Science Explorers are more interesting - more color, photos, charts, etc, - but I really like Dr. Wile's discussions on the Christian Worldview and Science (for lack of being able to think of how else to say it - LOL!). And, not being a science person, I find the Science Explorers overwhelming in the amount they cover. I know I don't *have* to cover it all, but I don't know how to stream-line it. So, this is my compromise. I have my first-six weeks in an Excel file, if you're interested in looking at it. Just pm me, and I'll email it to you. Rhonda

Yes, please, I'll try to pm you. Thanks! Rhonda

That is GREAT! It used to be quite a grueling drive. I love shopping at the Kohl's/Old Navy there at 575, but gave it up when we moved from Kennesaw. I'll have to time it to Woodstock Baptist - they certainly do offer a lot for high school! Thanks, again! Rhonda

Hmmm...this looks good, too. Quite a bit closer than Woodstock, and they have fencing! (hopefully, my ds is a little older than what they have listed) Not sure my boys would go for the whole thing (tho' if our time period in history matched up, then, yeah!). It is a shame that Kennesaw and Woodstock are doing Ancients next year. If Woodstock was doing modern, I'd probably drive for that! Thanks a bunch! Rhonda

Thanks! I forgot about Woodstock. It takes me about 15 min to get to 75 & 92, but I think they've widened 92 from there to Woodstock, so that would (hopefully) cut down the time, and make that a doable possibility. (I've tried to talk dh into moving to Woodstock, but that ain't happenin' anytime soon!) =) Rhonda

Or, could somebody spill the beans about one in Cobb County, GA that would be geared to middle/high school? ETA: or Bartow - or Paulding =) I found what looks to be a *great* one, but it's a good hour and 15 minutes to an hour a half - maybe more in traffic (and there's ALWAYS traffic on 75!). I really can't justify that AT ALL; but OTOH, my ds's friends are rapidly deteriorating. You know, they're all going into 8th or 9th grade, and some of them are making not-so-great choices. ;) Anyway, I know it's bothering him and he wants to go to ps just to meet some new people. Surely there's some place this extremely introverted mom can go to help him do this without resorting to public school. Thanks for listening! Rhonda

I would look at doing Sonlight's Cores 6 & 7. It is perfect for middle school! It gets you all the way thru world history in two years. And, the readers and read-alouds really make it memorable. (You can do their history, readers and read-alouds without doing anything else in the Core.) Best wishes! Rhonda

Kate, this was very helpful. Thanks!

Well, I think your assignments are fabulous as well! =)

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29533 :001_smile: Rhonda

Much of the same information is presented in both. The Reading Strands actually has more info, but Teaching the Classics is much easier to absorb. Teaching the Classics is basically a DVD presentation that demonstrates how to conduct a socratic dialogue about the piece of literature. Reading Strands also demonstrates a socratic dialogue, but it is written, and it doesn't really give you specific questions to ask. I was left wondering how I was supposed to think of the questions, and what I would do if my dc didn't answer "correctly". TtC has an appendix full of questions, which Reading Strands lacks. Frankly, it took watching the Teaching the Classics videos for me to "get" Reading Strands, but it also took Well-Educated Mind for me to "get" the how-to of Teaching the Classics with books that weren't in their syllabus. (But, my kids are older, and so the WEM are more pertinent to their reading.) I just couldn't decide which questions in the TtC syllabus "went with" the story we were trying to analyze. Teaching the Classics will help you sift through the mass of available "stuff" to cover, so that you can cover the most fundamental things first. They also have (or did have) lesson plans available for specific books. I'm sure that's not the best comparison. If you have specific questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them~ Rhonda

Yes, just choose whichever version of Arthur seems best for your child. My ds had read a version from the library (can't recall which), and was "Arthured-out" by the time we got the Arthur, so we didn't even actually do one on the official list. :) But, really, I think there are so many on the list so that you can feel free to choose whichever will work best for you - not to make you feel like you must do them all! And, I think you'll be fine substituting for Norse Myths as well. I have the D'aulaire's Greek Myths, and the Norse Myth books on the WTM list are very similar in set up and difficulty. We also read up to Sir Gawain's temptation scenes in the Tolkien version, then switched to a more middle-school (hey my kid's hormones are raging already, thank you) version. It was at our library, but I'll link amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Michael-Morpurgo/dp/0763625191/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1212177754&sr=8-1 hth, Rhonda ps - We also loved the books listed for Middle Ages in SL Core 6.

The book "It Couldn't Just Happen" by Richards was very helpful. When we went through PH Life Science, there was almost always a neatly corresponding section in Richards' book to balance the discussion. hth, Rhonda

I'm thinking about watching the DVD's with my kids the first week of school (skipping the parts that are obviously teacher/parent oriented). I figure that will give the kids a good mental picture of what *I* envision us doing.