then why not try to brainstorm ways to study that will help him retain the information? After all, just switching curriculum may not help with retention if what is really needed is some guidance on study skills. Some things we've done: I'll read the text as if I was the "teacher" and tell him what he needs to write down. We review/I quiz him on all his written notes from prior days' reading every day. (Sometimes this is before we read together. Some days he likes to read on his own, so we do this after.) We do all the "On Your Own" questions orally, but I have him explain his answer. I look through the Study Guide questions 2-3 times a week and orally quiz him on the ones he *should* know. For next year (physical science), there are "module summaries" in the back of the book. They are summary paragraphs with blanks to fill in. They suggest writing out the paragraphs, we'll probably do these orally. Oh, sometimes I create "study sheets" for him to fill out while he's reading. This way he knows what's important to take notes on and what's not. (That is something I think is harder than we parents know - after all, we already *know* what's important, so it *looks* important to us. But, when you're just learning it for the first time ---- sorry, I'm off the soap box, now!) I realize Apologia is supposed to be an "independent" study type of science. But, these things have *greatly* increased my ds's understanding and enjoyment. Best wishes! Rhonda

Our children have formed good, godly relationships with their teachers at church, and with other children, and I know that Sunday school has been a wonderful help in raising our children for the Lord. Yes! Not belonging to a liturgical church, "worship" is really something *I* do privately between myself and God. Worship is me sacrificing myself in my private "prayer closet", in thankfulness for his sacrifice on my behalf. Church is for teaching (somewhat), and fellowship. My church family, and the needs that are presented by them (& to them), is what pulls me away from my cocoon of a life as a homeschooling mom! It is what keeps me aware of my tendency to self-service, and my-own-family service, and my troubling sin of self-righteousness. I suppose if I were a better person, I wouldn't need to go to church for that, but this is my honest assessment of myself. I really don't care where children are. However, I will never go to a church that refuses to offer services/classes for young children after being told by church leaders in one such church that I should spank my younger ds (then 12-18mo) into learning how to whisper. I felt they wanted me to do something along the lines of Colleen's former post, and I refused. They said awful, *awful* things about our parenting, and made not very well-concealed implications about our spiritual states as well. (But, this was a church that didn't even have a nursury, so obviously kids w/parents was expected.) Since I was tired of dressing up in my best just to walk around outside with a my toddler every Sunday, we found another church. Now people come and tell me they will be *so* surprised if that same ds (now 10yo) isn't a minister one day. =) Rhonda

Then keep it "Simple & Sweet". (That does sound better, doesn't it?) =) Rhonda

That is my ds. It's not that he can't or won't read, but other than his fantasy books - and he takes *long* breaks from those! - he *doesn't* read anything more than what is required! I had also thought about getting HO just to see if that might help alleviate some of my worry (guilt!) about over-loading him with history & lit. I knew Lori D. had used it, so it's nice to see someone else has, too. It would be nice if SWB had a "Hey, if you only want to do 8 books, consider these first" list - LOL! Thanks for the reply! I had forgotten I had even asked~ Rhonda

I, too, was *stunned* when I read that Abraham had worshipped false gods. Then, I opened my One-Year Bible one day, and lo-and-behold (I copied here from Bible Gateway): Joshua 24:1-3 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society Joshua 24 The Covenant Renewed at Shechem 1 Then Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem. He summoned the elders, leaders, judges and officials of Israel, and they presented themselves before God. 2 Joshua said to all the people, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Long ago your forefathers, including Terah the father of Abraham and Nahor, lived beyond the River and worshiped other gods. 3 But I took your father Abraham from the land beyond the River and led him throughout Canaan and gave him many descendants. I gave him Isaac, Admittedly, it doesn't say which specific god. I suppose that is where the archaeology comes in. But, I was very humbled - especially since I knew from markings on the page that I had even read that specific passage before, but never had it sink in. (And, I cringed when I remembered leaving a post on the old board about how upset I was!) I do agree with you that *I* had to do a lot of explaining about what was myth and what was real. My 2nd grader (at the time) really struggled with why he needed to learn about false gods; (ETA: And Paris is still the ultimate "bad guy" against which all other historic villains have been compared!) I'm still really undecided about what I'll do with my next one - thankfully she's only 3yo, so I've a little while to stew about it! :001_smile: Rhonda

Ah! You are a gem!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! =) Rhonda

Well, in reading a library book about Mary Queen of Scots, it became apparent to my older ds and I that she *probably* was having an affair when her husband mysteriously died. Somehow, that failed to make it into SOTW ~ a historical "inaccuracy" for which I was extremely grateful! (Who complains about type-setting????? oh, please!!!! It's nice and big - easily readable - what do these people want?!?!?!?!) =) Rhonda

Greatest Hits of each decade from the 1900's? I'd love to add in some pop-songs and jazz and such next year. (When I was a girl, I had an old record from my Grandfather's collection that was a transparent golden color - I tho't it was *So Cool!* - and it had the hits of the 40's I think. It had the song about the "Three Little Fishies" - Down in the meadow in an itty-bitty pool....) Anyway, that's the sort of thing I'm looking for. Tried Amazon - maybe I'm just not entering the right search words. Thanks! Rhonda (who is depressed from planning Modern Art for next year, and *really* needs some fun music to cheer her up!)

and that *is* very, very hard!!!! You wrote: But I have always had an incredibly hard time scheduling skill subjects. They're so very dependent on ability, and mastery. How can I make goals for writing, when I don't know how long it will take for him to master the skills? If I make goals, won't I just stress us out by trying meet them by my set date, when that is not at all what I believe homeschooling should be? How can I set goals for Latin, when I don't know if we'll hit a snag? Math - who knows? What if he seems ready for algebra now, but a month into the program is struggling? I'll be honest, I don't set my *own* goals. I just follow the curriculum that I've chosen. I try to map out how fast we need to go to finish our curriculum in 34 weeks - that automatically gives us two weeks of breathing room. I also try to be sure to have two review days before tests in math and grammar - that gives me built in flexibility to change one of those into a "Think we better try this lesson again" day. If Math, Grammar, Latin gets too hairy, I just slow down - though I would only change curriculum under extreme circumstances (esp. in Latin, I will just change the schedule to a "review until we get it" week). I have those two extra weeks (which I like to save in case someone gets sick - a frequent happening around here); and, frankly, if we don't exactly *finish* the curriculum by a chapter or so, well....I doubt it will matter *that* much. In writing, I just look for progress and praise it. What else can you do? One thing that has helped is for me to look back at things my kids wrote two or three years ago - things I thought were sure omens that this experiment called homeschooling was destined for failure! Funny, but when I look back, I tend to see all the *good*. Now I try to look at their current work remembering that this isn't the end - just really the beginning. Sorry this is disjointed - gotta get to supper! Rhonda ETA: I forgot the most important part !!!! What I do to keep from over-loading my guys is to in-depth plan 6 weeks at a time. I read every lesson in my TE, and look at their book as well. I make notes to myself *exactly* what to do - what to read, what to do together, what to *not* do, what written work to assign. I try very, very hard to be very, very fair - and limit written work to 20-30 minutes per subject (if no daydreaming is done - LOL!). *And*, while I'm planning, I look to see how much written work, etc. they have in every subject that day, so that no one day is over-loaded. (I only do 6 weeks at a time, because you just never know how you might want to change things up the next 6 weeks.And, I make sure every assignment on their grid communicates my expectations very clearly!) All this extra, admittedly-detailed planning really helps me in those moments when they cop an attitude. I no longer hem and haw and change my mind and doubt my every move. I *know* the plan I made *is* fair - the amount of work *is* fair. I will change my plan if they truly don't understand and need review, or if they are sick, or if life has truly interfered in some unforeseeable way. Otherwise, the plan stays. I am so thankful to Momof7 for all her planning posts on the old board!!!!! If you really want to know how to do it, I would look there - no joke!

I would go ahead with 6. Or, you could just do the last chapter of 5 first next year. That's what I'm doing with R&S-7. There was just so much good writing (& research) instruction in the last chapter, that I knew would be forgotten over the summer, so I just decided to wait. We won't do all the lessons in the last chapter before starting 8 - just the ones dealing with writing and reference books. =) Rhonda

I thought BJU Pre-Algebra moved really fast, and it covered a lot of things that weren't really *necessary* for Pre-Algebra. (I was glad we did them, as I think it will help those things click faster the next time we see them - but they weren't necessary for Algebra, if that makes sense.) I'm not one to offer advice, since we'll just be starting Algebra next year. But, from what I've read Pre-Algebra isn't really a requirement for Algebra. So, I don't think you would need to take Pre-Algebra at all if you did decide to spend next year honing up on basic math skills (say, with Lial's BCM?) - but you could just jump right in with Algebra in 9th. hth, Rhonda

Off topic: I just read the Whole Story edition of Little Women, and I can't believe that series is now OOP. They are beautifully done!

My 7th grade ds read the original last year and *loved* it. My 4th grade ds read the one by Modern Publishing and loved it, too. I didn't compare versions, just went with what we had here. It didn't stick completely to the original, but did retain Twain's flair for boyish fun. =) Rhonda

I thought, "It really is full time. Homemaking is full time, and homeschooling is full time. Which is why I can't keep up with the homemaking the way I used to do anymore." I'd rather devote my energies to teaching my kids. I guess if I can keep up with laundry, cooking, grocery shopping, washing dishes, and bookkeeping, I'm doing pretty well. Yep, that's me, too! I'm finally getting some outside painting done. (WAY overdue!) I just had so many thoughts/plans in my head for next year the last week of "school" that I dropped everything, took the kids to library, and used that week to plan. When you're planning in your sleep, you might as well go ahead and get it on paper - LOL! Anyway, I'm hoping for 15 minutes. =) I'm sure my older ds will get it done in 15 minutes. It's my 5th grader that may need some "training". If it gets to be too much for him, I'll just let him work for 15 minutes and stop, and proceed at his own pace. =) Rhonda

Yes! My favorite version for "just reading" is actually the New Living Translation, because it phrases things so differently than either the NIV or the KJV, and so it brings new nuances/thoughts to mind. =) Rhonda

The 2-Day is: Day 1: Read/Discuss Intro; read some verses; assign "Answers from the Bible" Day 2: Discuss other parts of lesson and assign them to be completed The 3-Day: Day 1: Read/Discuss intro; read some verses; assign some of "Answers" Day 2: read more verses; finish "Answers from the Bible"; assign "Bible Word Study" Day 3: Discuss other parts of lesson & assign them to be completed I think I'm going to read all the verses out loud each day (kind of like Five in a Row) - but that will be as a "beginning our day" thing and not really part of their lesson. ETA: Hopefully, this will help the KJV begin to really "flow" for them. We'll see. Then, I'll split the "Answers" part (Part A) over two days; B & C on one day (the B looks to be fairly short - similar to their spelling if you have that); then, D on the last day and try to finish the lesson in four days. Some weeks may differ - we'll see as we go, I guess. We are the type of family who forgets things that aren't done every day! I'm finding it really hard to guess how much time it will take ds's (I *want* them to do the workbook independently - that's another "we'll see" issue - LOL!). It wouldn't take *me* that long to do it - I went over the first six lessons reading through all the verses in the NKJV and making notes where changes were needed in about an hour (?), but I wasn't writing the answers. Writing in notebooks is not a favorite activity of my ds's - LOL! Also, some of the questions require inferencing, something my younger ds will probably have some trouble with at first - he's still a bit of a concrete thinker. I don't want to make this an onerous task, so I'll probably limit it to 15 minutes a day, even if that means I have to sit with my 5th grader and help him out a bit. How is your planning going? I have the first six weeks in the computer for the basics and am doing Bible (obviously - HA!), Memory work, Art and Music now. Oh - I'd much rather just keep reading their literature than plan those! :001_smile: Rhonda

I kept up our history notebooks with narrations and/or outlines, and I also added in some of the WTM Literature as Read-Alouds at night. It wasn't anything I had to schedule - and it wasn't always consistent, but that way we didn't miss the beautiful Coville/Shakespeare books! I think we also wrote some summaries for the SL Readers ala WTM as well, but not always because they don't schedule time for that. Last year we went back to WTM, but I kept up the history-related Read-Alouds (from WTM and the SL Catalog). I think the difference for me is that I don't plan beyond the very basics of WTM. IOW, I *don't* spend hours pouring over the Activity Guide, looking for just the right supplementary book. And, we *never* do planned-by-mom activities. I think the Read-Alouds do so much more to build those memory pegs (and shared memories for us as a family) than textbook-ish library books read alone (or, in some cases, I think they were just "looked at" alone - LOL!). And, I don't plan the Read-Alouds other than having a list of "these look good" and "whenever the baby is otherwise occupied, we try to read for 45min to an hour". I decide very early which chapters in SOTW are going to be combined (usually those dealing with non-Western countries), and then develop a routine around the spines. *If* we have time to add more to that, I can easily look in the library's online catalog. But last year I used SOTW as our "extra" reading, so we really didn't have the time for very many library books (other than the Read-Alouds). Both SL and WTM are just so very, very good! I miss the SL-IG because it is just filled with those little extras that make good rabbit-trails to follow - I'm a bit boring in that regard. :p But, I love WTM because we just LOVE the classic literature. My kids would have gotten bored if we had done *only* historical fiction. Oh - one thing I did to make room for some WTM-ish notebook stuff in SL was to eliminate some of the spine reading (parts of World of Columbus and Sons for Core 6 and parts of the Hilyer in Core 1+2). :001_smile: Rhonda

Treasure Island Carry On, Mr. Bowditch Stowaway Sounds like fun! Rhonda

Lori, Did you have a guide that taught you how to study that way? If so, I'd love to know about it! Thanks, Rhonda

Well, I realized at dinner - hey, I can probably get a KJV pretty cheap (to use for the R&S study), *and* an NIV pretty cheap as well (to use during church). And, this year when they pack their bibles beside their still-sopping-wet-bathing-suits as they're getting ready to come home from camp, I won't flip a lid and lose my Christianity over it - LOL! =) Rhonda

I'm really starting to lean that way, and I'm thinking maybe I'll do a "Five in a Row" type of thing - start the morning by taking turns reading aloud the passage they're studying that week. (Then, they can do the workbook independently.) I don't think just doing the workbook in KJV would be as effective - it the flow-ing-ness of the language that I find appealing, even more so than the literary influence. Of course, that could just be me being sentimental, as I always "hear" my Dad's voice reading the KJV - lol! Thanks for the post! Rhonda

Did you follow the schedule in the TM's? I'm thinking I'll split the first part of the lessons over two days (when they're reading and filling in blanks). I know every dc is different - just wondering if you've any advice. Thanks! Rhonda

I'm planning to start Rod & Staff Bible 5 next year (ds's will be in 5th and 8th), which uses KJV. DH and I usually read New King James. So, I've been going through and marking things to align the questions to New King James - there's not *much* that needs to be changed. Then I had the thought that maybe doing the KJV (with the Thee's and Thou's) would make the medieval literature (especially Shakespeare) in high school a bit easier. I don't know. I don't want to make things unnecessarily difficult. Thought I should ask here for your experiences... Thanks, again! Rhonda

Here's an old thread from the K-8 board that might help a bit: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17978&highlight=WVWW

Ah, come on! Be a "persistent puppy"!! You can do it! =) - looking at you with a "furtive mien", Rhonda (who really, really loved Ginger Pye a *whole* lot more than 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea!)