How lovely! DD is reading Selfish Gene now for a WTM Academy class.

I have in front of me pp. 494-497 of WTM with the high school reading list and it seems...ambitious for us. What would be your absolute minimum list of challenging Great Works of Literature that absolutely must be read in 4 years of high school? Canterbury Tales? Dante's Inferno? As a math science gal, I hardly know what's what. Thanks!

I started a thread last spring on Science Olympiad. I really wanted to do it, but we're so busy now, and the learning curve just looked too steep for me. It does seem like an awesome program. Maybe I can still pull it off for this year? :lurk5: Listening in...

I won't be able to book the library for another week or so. If you want to come to my center in RWC, PM me with your email address, but I won't be set up for registration for another couple of weeks yet. In the meantime, if you find another center, take it because I can't guarantee I'll get the library when I want it. But usually I do.

I wonder about that balance between attending a large "name" school versus a smaller LAC with more opportunity for research. Which is more advantageous?

Thank you for your detailed reply! Yes, she plans to volunteer coaching middle school math teams, hopefully with an underserved population and a group of homeschoolers. She also plans to resume voice lessons to support her return to musical theater. And she plays tennis. We've got fun stuff covered. I kind of consider history an elective or at least elective-y since I let her choose what she wants to study. I forgot to mention she will also resume her electronics/arduino/raspberry pi "elective" which is really a required tech class for her. :001_smile:

DD14 is *this close* to pulling out of her school and resuming homeschooling. She's had one foot out the door for a few weeks now, so she's been doing some online classes already. What do you think of this freshman year? Math: AoPS Intermediate Algebra at home (we're about 1/3 of the way through) Statistics: Coursera online class (about 2 weeks behind, using this weekend to catch up) AP Chemistry: PA homeschoolers (loving it) Writing: resume with old writing tutor Literature/Great Works: I've got nothing. What do you recommend? (I'm not qualified to teach this.) History: She doesn't want anything too challenging, as she already has a full plate. Ideas? Spanish: No idea. What should I do? She has about 0.5 years of it already.

And just to make everyone more depressed, here's a recent article in the WSJ about Chinese students being recruited to US universties: By TE-PING CHEN And MELISSA KORN Sept. 30, 2015 10:18 p.m. ET Like many U.S. colleges, Wichita State University wants more foreign students but isn’t a brand name abroad. So the school, whose mascot is a muscle-bound wheat bundle, in late 2013 started paying agents to recruit in places like China and India. The independent agents assemble candidates’ documents and urge them to apply to the Kansas school, which pays the agents $1,000 to $1,600 per enrolled student. Overseas applications “shot up precipitously,†says Vince Altum, Wichita State’s executive director for international education. But there is a down side: Wichita State rejected several Chinese applications this year from an agency it suspected of falsifying transcripts, Mr. Altum says, adding that it terminates ties with agencies found to violate its code of conduct by faking documents. Paying agents a per-student commission is illegal under U.S. law when recruiting students eligible for federal aid—that is, most domestic applicants. But paying commissioned agents isn’t illegal when recruiting foreigners who can’t get federal aid. So more schools like Wichita State are relying on such agents, saying the intermediaries are the most practical way to woo overseas youths without the cost of sending staff around the world. No one officially counts how many U.S. campuses pay such agents, most of whom operate abroad, but experts estimate at least a quarter do so. “Using agencies to help connect with talented, qualified prospects has been very helpful,†says Michael Heintze, associate vice president for enrollment management at Texas State University, which began using agents in 2012. Critics of agent use like Philip Altbach, a Boston College professor who studies higher education, say it is rife with abuses and conflicts of interest, and may eventually degrade the quality of U.S. higher education. “The growing reliance on agents is a terrible development, and it’s very widespread,†especially at less-elite schools needing help boosting enrollment, says Mr. Altbach, whose institution doesn’t use agents. “Why are American universities doing this? The answer is very simple: money.†The agent debate is dividing U.S. higher education. Concerns about recruiting through paid agents—they range from freelance operators to firms with hundreds of employees—are deepening as the foreign-applicant flow grows. A record 886,052 overseas students enrolled in U.S. universities and colleges in the 2013-2014 school year, versus 573,000 a decade earlier, with nearly one-third from China, says the nonprofit Institute of International Education. Chinese enrollees were up 41% in the year from two school years before. The increase is driven partly by schools offsetting budget cuts. Nationwide, per-student funding at public colleges fell 13% in fiscal 2014 from 2009, says the State Higher Education Executive Officers association. Foreign students usually pay full nonresident tuition. At Wichita State, that is $12,681, versus $6,022 for in-state tuition this school year. Hugo Hu, U.S. deputy director of EIC Education, a Chinese agency that recruits for American campuses and also takes students as clients, says it is hard for Chinese students, who often don’t have college counselors, to navigate the maze of applications on their own. “There are so many U.S. schools out there,†he says, “and that’s where we can help students.†Phony applications Skeptics say agents, whether paid by a school or an applicant, can open the door to falsified applications that make admission easier for unqualified candidates, such as those with poor English or spotty academic records. For a college, poorly qualified students can add burdens—requiring professors to bring them up to speed in class, say—or jeopardize accreditation. North Dakota’s Dickinson State University says its accreditor sanctioned it after an audit found most of its agent-recommended students weren’t fulfilling graduation requirements. “We’re still working to recover our reputation,†says D.C. Coston, who called for the audit as Dickinson State’s president in 2011 and retired this August. Interim President Jim Ozbun says the school has stopped using agents. For a foreign student, an agent’s guidance may mean landing on a campus that doesn’t offer the appropriate curriculum or support. And when an unqualified student gets a college slot with a falsified application, it can mean a lost college prospect for a qualified applicant. “We find third-party recruiting agents to be not just not cost-effective, but dangerous,†says Dale Gough, international education services director at the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. The debate intensified in 2013, when the National Association for College Admission Counseling, which previously barred use of commission-based agents among its members, changed its ethics code to permit them for foreign applications if schools ensured integrity and transparency. Some nonmember colleges were already using commission-based agents for foreign applicants, as were some member colleges despite the NACAC ban. But the shift by NACAC, whose members include most major U.S. universities and many smaller ones, opened the door wider. Paying commissioned agents remained illegal for most U.S. applicants under a ban Congress enacted in 1992 after agent-fraud concerns. NACAC reversed itself after hearing from about 100 colleges that wanted to expand recruiting, says David Hawkins, its executive director of educational content and policy. “Ultimately,†he says, “this association is governed by its members.†Member schools that started using commissioned agents since then include campuses like Wichita State and Shepherd University, Shepherdstown, W.Va. Colleges typically pay an agent 10% to 15% of first-year tuition for a foreign student who enrolls. “The most efficient way to recruit international students is through agents,†says Charles Nieman, director of international initiatives at Shepherd, which wants to increase international enrollment to about 5% of its 4,500 students from under 1% now. A Beijing agency Students also hire agents to help land them in U.S. colleges, a practice especially popular in China. “My impression is 80%-90% use some kind of agency services,†says Rick Shang, who moderates an online forum for Chinese students in America. Agents meet with prospective clients inside the Beijing headquarters of Tiandao, a large Chinese agency that helps students apply to U.S. colleges and universities. In the background, a message in LED lights congratulates a client on her recent admission to Yale. ENLARGE Agents meet with prospective clients inside the Beijing headquarters of Tiandao, a large Chinese agency that helps students apply to U.S. colleges and universities. In the background, a message in LED lights congratulates a client on her recent admission to Yale. PHOTO: TE-PING CHEN/THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Demand for agents was visible recently at Tiandao Education, an agency that spreads across a Beijing office tower’s sixth floor. Dozens of students and counselors sat in clusters or conference rooms named “Ivy 1,†“Ivy 2†and “Ivy 3,†flipping through images of U.S. schools on iPads. American-college pennants and admission letters adorned Tiandao’s walls, with statistics on how many Tiandao students got in. A placard by a Cornell University letter said 239 Tiandao clients gained admission there. Eric Xiao, director of Tiandao’s college-application business, says agencies often ghostwrite student essays but Tiandao discourages students from engaging in such activities or other falsification. U.S. students also get outside help, he says. “It’s a question of the extent,†he says. “OK, in China, it might be a little more.†Cornell says it doesn’t use agents and doesn’t allow applicants to use them to complete applications. Students found submitting misleading materials face possible expulsion, it says. Shawn Felton, Cornell’s undergraduate-admission director, says it is concerning that agents tout their ability to get students into Cornell. “Students should be completing and submitting their admission applications themselves. Agents should not be handling these particular tasks.†Adding to concerns, some agents work for both students and colleges, taking commissions from both sides for a successful enrollment. That can give an agent the incentive to get a student accepted at a client school’s detriment or to place a commission-paying student on an inappropriate campus to get the school’s commission as well. Some schools prohibit double-dipping. Shepherd says it bars agents from charging both school and applicant. Several Chinese students interviewed say agents in China falsified their documents or wrote their essays, sometimes discouraging them from playing any role in preparing their applications. A University of California, Berkeley, sophomore from China says his family paid roughly $30,000 to an agent who rewrote his essay using language the student never used. He feels uneasy, he says, but “no one knows about the whole application process better than they do so I had no choice.†A Berkeley spokeswoman declines to comment on specific cases. Berkeley doesn’t pay agents and discourages their use, she says, but lets students use them if work submitted is “their own and accurate.†The school randomly requests additional documentation to combat fraud, she says, and students who provide false information can be expelled. A Chinese student who started at New York University this fall says her family paid $26,000 for an agent who wrote her personal statement, inventing a tale about how the student dragged her father out of a gambling den to save him from a life of vice, and how he stopped gambling and “has instead devoted himself to spreading his appreciation of nature.†The student says “that stuff didn’t actually happen†and that she wrote her own essay. NYU doesn’t pay agents but allows applicants to as long as they don’t falsify any information. If the student had used the fake essay, an NYU spokesman says, she would have been subject to expulsion. Spotting falsification can be hard, other schools say, given small admissions staffs and high foreign-applicant volume. The University of Pennsylvania says applicants to this fall’s freshman class include students from roughly 1,000 schools new to its database of about 10,000. Penn, which doesn’t pay agents and says it discourages families from using them, uses Google searches and input from alumni to learn about unfamiliar schools, and occasionally verifies reference letters with schools. But “we’re not going to pick up the phone on every single application,†says admissions dean Eric Furda. “We can’t.†The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign doesn’t do “a lot of individual fact-checking,†says Charles Tucker, its vice provost for undergraduate education. Its applications from China for the fall 2014 class rose to 6,160 from 2,595 four years before. The university doesn’t pay agents but lets applicants do so. Applicants provide self-reported overviews of high-school records, filing official transcripts only after admission. “The admissions people feel fairly confident†they can spot falsifications, Mr. Tucker says. Still, he says, the only compelling way to determine that an essay or test score doesn’t reflect capabilities is to see the person struggle in class. Curbing fraud One way to curb fraud, says Charles Wester, associate director of Asia outreach at Omaha’s Creighton University, is to spot-check candidates in video interviews. Another is to work principally with overseas high schools that ensure secure transcripts and recommendations, he says. Creighton keeps a database of trusted high schools. Many campuses are “all too eager to turn a blind eye, however revenue’s coming in,†Mr. Wester says. Applications from Asia have increased 30% since 2012 at Creighton, which doesn’t use commissioned agents and interviews all Chinese applicants in person or by video, he says. Federal data show 64% of nonresident-alien students starting full-time undergraduate programs in 2007 graduated within six years, versus 59% for all students. But some overseas students start in remedial programs, not on degree tracks, never making it into mainstream courses nor on rolls used to calculate graduation rates. They can still hurt a school. Dickinson State, which isn’t a NACAC member, began using agents about a decade ago. The internal audit, released in 2012, found that it was admitting students—recommended by agents it paid—with questionable qualifications and that it had been duped by altered transcripts. Only 10 of more than 400 foreign students receiving degrees over the prior decade had fulfilled graduation requirements, the report said. The school’s accreditor sanctioned it for that shortfall and issues including financial-stewardship concerns. Dickinson State has stopped paying agents and beefed up admission requirements, and the sanction was lifted in late 2013. “There may be a role for agents,†says Mr. Ozbun, the interim president, “but at least for the moment we’re not anticipating moving ahead with any of that kind of activity.†Wichita State, which previously worked with agents whom students paid, started to pay agents after NACAC’s reversal. Many rival schools were paying agents, Wichita State’s Mr. Altum says. “This was our way to remain competitive.†One graduate-school dean worried agents would hurt its reputation, he says, but most were on board. With more applicants, Wichita State can be more selective, Mr. Altum says. It had 1,848 foreign enrollees in fall 2014, up 65% from fall 2010, a rise he attributes to agents. Wichita State contacts high schools when there are document-authenticity concerns and sometimes “spit tests†signatures, wetting them to see if they smear (ink does, laser-printed signatures don’t), or uses black lights to check transcripts for doctoring. Wichita State has stopped requiring essays of any applicant, Mr. Altum says, because “it’s too easy to have someone write an essay on your behalf.â€

I was an amazing parent...before I had kids. :lol:

One thing the blogger brings up that I hadn't thought before is the volume of materials that is expected of student applicants these days. When I applied to competitive colleges I had my one single essay that I used for ALL my applications. Then I had a couple of shorter paragraphs about extracurriculars and whatnot. Easy peasy. Nowadays, students spend so much time and emotional energy on their applications, it is a huge letdown and a huge amount of wasted time if they don't get in. Like he says, what should be a Tinder swipe-left turns into a break up after 6 month intense relationship.

Amanda Ripley, the author of The Smartest Kids in the World might be a good candidate for this. "How do other countries create “smarter†kids? What is it like to be a child in the world’s new education superpowers? The Smartest Kids in the World “gets well beneath the glossy surfaces of these foreign cultures and manages to make our own culture look newly strange....The question is whether the startling perspective provided by this masterly book can also generate the will to make changes†(The New York Times Book Review)."

Isn't it interesting that so few test-takers are white. Are they opting out, or are they enrolled in private schools?

Can I add 2 more points on this topic: 1. I'm a big fan of the AMC solutions generated by James Tanton. He begins every solution with this: STEP 1: Read the question, have an emotional reaction to it, take a deep breath, and then reread the question. Every difficult problem begins with an emotional reaction. "I have no idea what this means, and I have no idea how to solve it." I love how he acknowledges this reaction and normalizes it. We all feel this way when encountering hard problems. 2. I don't often use sports metaphors, but I do play tennis. One thing I notice with tennis newbies is they will often judge a ball to be beyond their reach and won't bother to attempt to run after it. At some point I decided I was going to go after every ball, even if it was out of my reach. To my surprise, I often did get those out of reach balls. Also, running after out of reach balls improved my speed, so I was able to get more of them, too. It is embarrassing to chase after a ball only to have it slip by, but worth the effort. I think this applies to math problems as well. Even if the problem is too hard, try it anyway. If you fail, you are no worse off than before, and probably better off even if you don't solve it, because you will have a deeper understanding of the problem and solution. Always go for it!

You hit it on the head here. I believe it is an important skill to try to solve problems where the solution isn't obvious. It's a scary thing to try solving a problem when you don't even know if your approach will even lead you to the solution. But if you give up here, then you are saying good bye to lots and lots of difficult problems that will come up in college math, college physics, college chemistry, etc. I believe students need to get accustomed to solving hard problems, learning to be brave enough to try something, anything, that may or may not lead to a solution. I model this behavior a lot. "Uh...I have not idea how to solve this, but let's try this and hope for the best..."

I'm glad to hear you are happy with CTY Spanish because I'm looking for Spanish options now.

Nothing to add here except that I'm jealous of students in other states that an participate in school clubs and sports without being enrolled. This is the biggest disadvantage of homeschooling in California, IMO.

Any ideas or resources for the study of statisics and data analysis and R for high school?

This is especially true for elementary. Once you get to high school the charters get more difficult, and you have less independence. A couple of years ago Ocean Grove even raised the amount of money it distributed to families...the year we quit, lol!

I think the most important thing wrt exponents is to not memorize. If your student forgets what x^(-2) is, they need to run through a little derivation: 3^2 = 9 3^1 = 3 3^0 = 1 3^(-1) = ... what's the pattern? 3^(-2) = ... continue the pattern... If your student forgets what x^(a+b) means, don't just tell them but lead them socratically through basic principles: x^a = x*x*x*...*x (a times) x^b = x*x*...*x (b times) x^a * x^b = (x*x*...*x)*(x*x*...*x) a times and then b times for a total of a+b times. That is, you have a+b x's being multiplied by each other. I think it's very important to be able to do a quickie derivation of these principles, because you never know when you'll be in a situation where you'll forget and won't have the internet handy. Or as my math teacher used to say, "Mere memorization is a mathematical malpractice."

I forgot to mention that if you host an exam, they waive your child's registration fee.

I run a MK test site at the local library for homeschoolers. I can choose to have my center open to the public so folks like you can sign up. Or I can keep my center private so just people I know have access and can sign up. The option to keep your center private is new this year. (Last year if you wanted your center to be private you needed to register and collect the money yourself, then sign up everyone on the MK site. It was tedious, and the new feature is an improvement to me.) I haven't opened registration yet for my site, just because I've been distracted, but I think I'll get on that today. If a site doesn't open up, I would encourage you to host your own exam. You don't need to have very many students, theoretically it could just be your own student, though it's more fun with a small group. Also I like having the exam early in the afternoon rather than late in the evening or during dinner hour, like other test sites. MK is very friendly to homeschoolers, and it really isn't that much work. I'm happy to go over the issues in hosting the exam in detail.

He should ask around. Sometimes a master's is a pre-professional degree, while those who are going into academia go straight from BS to PhD programs. But I doubt having an MS will hinder an application to a PhD program, except to delay his entry by a year. But he should really ask around because it varies by department.

Ooh, I like this idea. I have a fake birthday but not a fake ssn. But wouldn't it cause trouble for you down the road? What situations do you use the fake ssn?

Jack Pien is the founder of EEME, a subscription-based electronics curriculum. They mail a project to you every month and you build it using his detailed online videos. It really helped me get my feet wet in learning electronic components. He has presented at other homeschooling conferences and has many homeschooled subscribers.

Very much agree with this, but to be clear, the author's name is Cal Newport. (I think Cal Thomas is a syndicated columnist?)