I'm curious too. I've wondered if the online demo is at the beginning, middle or near the end of the program. When I tried it, it seemed too advanced for a beginning class, but I don't know what else is in the program other than the demo. Based only on the demo, it looks like a great program for adult learners who have already had exposure to the language. The demos dealt with a lot of business world talk (small talk with the receptionist while you wait for your appointment with the vice president), and getting your marketing report ready for the board meeting. The vacation planning and reservation dialogue was fun --- but not quite sure it's right for high schoolers. It has a lot of everything in it for grammar, vocabulary, speech recognition. Dictation (long and difficult). Then I read Cathy Duffy's review too. curious how the full program compares to the level in the demo:confused: However, I didn't use the Spanish demo which is what you were talking about. I was in the Italian demo at first. Realized that I couldn't really follow it. So, I thought I'd check out the program's features and all it has to offer by playing with the English demo on beginner level :) -crystal

I'm going into my 6th year of using MFW. details in my siggy line -crystal

I really liked it. We did RTR when my oldest was in 4th grade. So some of my memories might be fuzzy. But I know my 4th and 1st grader really liked it. It was the first year that I didn't try to add anything to MFW's science other than using the book basket lists for library enrichment reading and it was a really good year. The first semester of RTR is the human body study. You do the The Body Book to make a semester long project; a Janice Van cleave book is used as part of the study. Additionally, there is an Usborne book used in that semester. When I did RTR all those years ago it was the non-internet linked book so I can't compare the two, but in general I tend to like the internet linked Usborne books. The Usborne book that was originally in RTR went out of print or something so MFW got a better book :) and then, the Human Body studies end with using The Wonderful Way Babies are Made. If you've already done astronomy, you could just substitute that semester with something else that you wanted to do. MFW also uses the Apologia Botany book in EX1850, so maybe that'll help in planning. -crystal

tiny nit picky over clarifying moment.... MFW recommends PM text and workbook and also says you should do drill work with Singapore. So they seem to think that just the 2 books is all that's needed -- they recognize the need for drill work with out it *having* to be more workbooks. :001_smile: -crystal

is it just enough with Primary Text, Primary Workbook and drills???? I know my oldest only used from 4B-6B and we both thought there was a lot of review, practice and challenging word problems in just the text and workbooks. Especially in 6B -- a lot of the book was self classified as challenging word problems and the length of the day was enough. My middle child --- we just added drill and would improvise extra problems based on the textbook. But I still like only using the text and workbook and not an extra full IP and no real need for CWP at her level. I guess some kids might benefit from more. My oldest tested in Saxon Alg I at the end of Singapore 6B without doing the IP or CWP. my experience with the review? Just agreeing with Karen in NC: -crystal

thanks for the tip:) -crystal

Rosetta Stone is offering its summer pricing for homeschool edition until the end of September.:001_smile: MFW is also able to participate in the sale. version 3 level 1, 2, 3 package for $429. Not sure of Rainbow's price on version 3. I must have look at the wrong thing. link to MFW's RS page for pricing. http://www.mfwbooks.com/for_lang.htm -crystal

I use and like Writing Strands. My 7th grader will be in book 5 this year because she has completed book 4. I like the feel of the one on one teaching instruction. I'm not sure that same feel would be there in a classroom setting. IEW works well in co-op settings from what I've heard. Does the school have specific goals or standards that are "supposed" to be covered in these years? -crystal

This coming year, my oldest (7th grade) will use Applications of Grammar book 1(CLP) as part of overall language arts. I like the idea of getting it covered in one book. I like the "reference" feel that is in Applications. I didn't look at all of the All in One books. All in One -- we just did the one called English series, master book. It didn't cause her many problems. It just covered parts of speech basics, a few rules on Commas and many a little bit more punctuation. It seems to finish off what was covered in ILL in the 6th grade portion. Likes about the book: It is very straight forward with rules as the name says on the cover. I like that she was able to use it independently. Used to cement the facts. I see in her writing that the information looks retained. Lesson were short, just enough practice. Dislikes -- there were some proofreading errors in the edition that I have. Isn't that true of anything? So that meant that I had to at least take 1 minute to glance over the lesson before telling her to get it done. I've heard they've updated a printing. I don't know anything about that. -crystal

When my middle daughter used PLL in 2nd grade and 3rd grades, we added a spelling program She was using MFW which had a lot of components of language arts built into the unit study. PLL provided the rest. Next year in her 4th grade year, she'll do the language arts in the unit studies in MFW, plus Writing Strands 3, Spelling Power and ILL (the 4th grade part.) My oldest used ILL in 5th and 6th --- I added a formal spelling program (spelling power), and Writing Strands. Somewhere in 6th grade I did a grammar workbook too (All in One English). Again all of the rest of language arts came through the unit studies in MFW. -crystal

Jessica has already given the philosophical side of it. The practical scope and sequence side of it in my house means that I spend the early elementary years helping my child feel comfortable with lots of oral language and different ways to practice language without worrying that they know the vocabulary associated with parts of speech. That way when they are in middle school years you can teach the vocabulary definitions of those parts of speech and it will seem second nature to them. It’s ok to wait until middle school years instead of 1st, 2nd and 3rd grade ages for all of that. The children are older and in the logic stage of learning and able to use those definitions at that point in their lives to analyze their own writing. -crystal

I know Jessica covered this a bit when she mentioned that FLL focuses on terminology and PLL on application. I prefer PLL. I'm already in the "camp" that wants to follow a Charlotte Mason flavor to my classical education especially when it comes to learning those 8 words that categorize parts of speech. PLL helps to keep me on that path. -crystal

7th grader: MFW's ECC with the jr. high readers, writing and research package Applications of Grammar, Writing Strands 5, Progeny Press Saxon 8/7 Apologia General Science Rosetta Stone Russian and life 4th grader MFW's ECC Singapore 3B/4A Intermediate Language Lessons Writing Strands 3 Spelling Power and life K kid: MFW K speech and occupational therapy and life -crystal

Here are some hints to make those bar diagrams work on this problem. I hope this is right. It is going to take 40 bars to represent the total cash prize because it has to be something that can be done in groups of 8’s and 5’s. 8 * 5 = 40. so let's make it an equivalent fraction problem. 3/8 is the same as 15/40 2/5 is the same as 16/40 Therefore 31/40 is spent on washing machine and the fridge. The other 9 parts of the cash prize together equal 180 +270, which is 450. 450 divided into those 9 bars that are still there means that each bar is 50 dollars. There were 40 bars to start with. Each is 50 dollars, therefore the beginning amount was $2000. Sound right or did I read the problem too fast and type too fast too? -crystal

There is one other factor involved that didn’t seem accounted for while comparing these apples to oranges of 2 really wonderful programs that fit the needs of different families. From what I’ve understood from experienced and happy TOG users, with TOG you still have some planning to do and selecting things each week. With MFW --- all of the lesson planning is done for you. That seems to be what is said by those who are happily using each program and among the many reasons why one fits or doesn’t fit. If Beth’s bottom line numbers have some close enough factor to them for discussion purposes, then that means that over K-12 (13 school years) the costs that she compared means MFW is about $443 more compared to buying TOG. But like the others have said, I’m not sure it is a comparison that shows all factors involved. $443 over the 13 years-- that’s right at $34 per year. That’s $1 per week (34 school weeks of lessons in MFW) and I have no extra planning to do and it covers the planning for many subjects that are not included in the other good program. That’s a service and price that *I* am most definitely willing to pay for a program that I want to use. The MFW teacher’s manuals have been great for lesson planning, built in record keeping and have been a great fit. Your mileage may vary. -crystal

Caryn, For book basket you can buy a few books now from VP that you want to use. Look for books that seem interesting for enrichment. Look for titles that can be read independently by your students. Part of book basket time is to let students read by themselves and enjoy it. Then, tagging on to Donna's suggestion.... when you get your CTG manual, look for titles with an asterisk. You don't have to buy all of the books right now for book basket. And maybe some of the grandparents will want to help around Christmas time too??? -crystal

Well.... couple of ideas. Your 8th grader could start high school a year early if you really wanted to. And then be able to do something completely different as a 12th grader. Lots of options on that route. As someone who is using the ECC program a second time around, I have a different perspective about the books being used again and whether or not it is just a repeat from 5 years ago. We are using ECC (the same curriculum from 5 years ago), but with many different books and outloooks to be right for this stage. The Science completely changes for the 8th grader doing ECC. There is so much more writing this time around. I'm glad we did the crafts when she was younger and waited on the writing. You will re-do the Window on the World Book --- we look forward to praying for them again -- especially with my oldest child having 5 years to grow up a bit in understanding it all. The reference books (atlas books) do not have to completely change, but you are expected to get extra references for the older student. MFW recommends a high school text book for geography and/or using World Book Enc. on CD. Very different from what a 3rd grader will do. The 2nd time in ECC -- the jr. high student will not only do the continents, but will begin to do a lot more in depth research study of individual countries. Instead of the book World Geography being just used as a teaching tool (the way a 3rd grader would) it becomes a chance to learn Research Skills and have integrated writing lessons. Additionally, there is a whole other set of readers that will be a very different flavor to the 8th grader doing ECC. I really don't think it is the "same" the second time around. Many of younger books in ECC do not have to be re-done with older student unless they want to. They don't have to re-do Global Art or Wee Sing unless you have them teach it to the younger kids. So, it does change quite a bit 5 years later when they are older to reflect a whole new stage of learning. It's great because it then becomes easy to let them have more responsibility. Beth, you have me curious now :) When you say TOG integrates writing --- does it provide actual instruction for writing, or just assignments in writing that are related to history assignments? One of the reasons that MFW has a separate writing program is to learn the writing skills so that you can complete your notebook assignments that are related to history and science. :confused: I'm just glad there are so many different options out there to be able to fit so many different needs and wants. -crystal

Hi Linda, a few other ideas..... I can't remember if you have done MFW 1st with any of other your kids, If you have done it and still have the manual, there are some simple reading games in the appendix. Maybe some of those ideas would help too? And remember the Go Fish and Bingo games that are already part of MFW K too. Look on the Day 5 routines in the Yellow Pages. -crystal

On the high school comparison stuff (I didn't see if this was mentioned already or not... sorry if it is duplicated.....) Not sure if this is similar or not.... MFW's high school will have the student read the entire Bible. The entire OT is read and studied in the Ancients high school year. The entire NT is read in the high school year 2 (World history Rome to Modern) might be something that is important to some people and not to others. worth a tiny mention. -crystal

Rosetta Stone is great for visual learners. Even my autistic child (most definitely NOT an auditory learner) does great with it. Play with the online demo. -crystal

I might be in the minority opinion on this.... Given her age, find a way to hold off starting in Algebra. The work load gets longer and the pressure to keep up gets frustrating. That might mean to slow down with TT 7 or finding other ways. Maybe instead of continuing in more math, perhaps adding in a class in computer programming that is geared for her age group???? How about considering using some Singapore challenging word problems or something like that? How about life skills or finding ways to let her do service projects that help to instill your family's faith values? My dh was a super accelerated math kid. Started Alg early by most sequences. In 12th grade he was taking college level math courses (differential equations, college sophomore level class). So, you can wait a while and still be on accelerated path :) Think end point with your math sequence as well as what to do next year. -crystal

ECC can be done with 7th or 8th graders. Donna gave you the link to the jr. high recommendations that MFW has for that. Here is a link on how to schedule those parts http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?p=33291#33291 in case it would help anyone who is using ECC with 7th grader. I'll be doing that next year. It will be our 2nd time with ECC. We did it 5 years ago and finished the 5 year cycle!!! :) Agreeing with the others that you'd want to look at what your child has learned and whether or not you have younger children in the mix. On the MFW message board, David Hazell, his wife authors the curriculum, offered some general guidelines for when you have only 2 years to teach until high school. Here's a link to his recommendations because it might help to see some long term planning. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?p=32832 and as the others have said, you might want to call their office and talk through some ideas and recommendations with them. They like to help with placement and planning process. -crystal

I like how Rosetta Stone version 2 uses those kinds of building blocks with phrases to help teach positional concepts. I thought it was an easy way to learn the difference between "on" and "under" and "in" by taking them and using them in phrases with vocabulary that you had already learned. It really made my kids focus on the prepositions that were being taught. My Italian professor in college used to do the same kinds of things. LOL. My girls (ages 12, 9, 6) have done well with Rosetta Stone. I agree with that boy under the airplane isn't an everyday phrase, but other phrases involving the word "under" will be normal to use. And then as you learn more vocabulary you learn how to substitute words around. It's just part of the immersion method. Version 3 of Rosetta Stone is a lot different from version 2. And includes a new section called "milestones" that have a lot more kinds of conversation practice. great improvement!!! -crystal

I was wondering the same thing as well. The biggest differences seem to be cost and amount of disks you need. The DIVE cds is one cd per Saxon level and cost around $50. The teaching tapes website shows that it takes multiple tapes or DVD's per Saxon level and the cost of the videos for the whole set per level varies from $165 for Saxon 54 and 65. Then $215 for 76 and 87. Then $265 for Alg 1/2, 1, and 2 and then a bigger jump to over $300 for the Advanced and Calculus. One style difference I noticed based on the limited sample on the teaching tapes (I used DIVE CD for Saxon) is that on teaching tapes you see the instructor as she talks and on DIVE you just hear him as he writes. DIVE takes you through the lesson and the text. The sample (and I haven't used teaching tapes) of Teaching tapes just seemed to be walking you through a few sample problems in a lesson. Maybe the sample doesn't show everything? But given the cost difference and liking DIVE's format, I like my DIVE for Saxon.:) -crystal