Jane, you are right, we are very blessed to have several options for outside classes here. I'm not sure what will be offered next year, though. Also, my son will definitely need a scholarship to go to college. We have no savings and I don't think we will qualify for any financial aid. So that is my dilemma. He does have volunteer work and extra curricular activities, like Key Club, Omicron Delta Honor Society, and Theater. He spends a lot of time on weekends volunteering through Key Club, and will volunteer at a couple of camps this summer, as he did last summer. He is signed up for the Congressional Award program but honestly we are not getting very far with it right now. I think for next year (11th) the best route for him will be challenging high school level work with a focus on getting those writing, reading, and math skills down for the SAT. If we could get the writing issues worked out, he would probably be able to better handle a DE course or two. He just gets paralyzed by essay/research assignments. When he actually gets past the "I've got to write a paper !!!!! :ack2:" mental drama, it doesn't take him that long. He has an issue with letting other things slide when he has a difficult assignment, though. For example, he had to write a research paper (3-5 pages) for his Law & Justice class this week. He had to turn in a rough outline, a final outline with rough Works Cited page, and a final copy. He started Monday and just has to review edits with me and type it today. But he told me last night that he hasn't done history, literature, or vocabulary all week. :confused: I think he gets to a point where he just shuts off. So my fear is that if I put him in an AP history class, math won't get done (or similar scenario). Does that make sense? I want him to be prepared for college. I want him to get scholarships. I really just don't know how much to push him-how much is lazy teenage boy stuff and how much is really "I can't handle it"? Where is the instructor's manual for that? :D

Lisa, did your older kids find WWS too juvenile? I have the 10 week sample printed out to use with my 11ds, but I'm not sure how the older ones would feel about using the same curriculum as him. Are your older kids going through it at a quicker pace? I would love to hear any thoughts on using WWS for 8th grade and up.

That is precisely the point. I'm not sure what you don't get? If he is having this much trouble getting high school level work (challenging, but still high school) done, how could he handle AP/dual enrollment classes and still have time for anything else? We did not start the year off with this schedule in mind, but, as I said, opportunities arose that we wanted to take advantage of (and he assured me he would put in the necessary work with no complaining), so he is having to "pay the price" now. I could be wrong, but I assume the time spent on 8 credits of typical high school work is somewhat close to, or maybe even less, than what he would spend on a schedule with fewer classes but that included a couple of APs or DE classes. I also do not want my son to spend all day long on school, which is why I am debating the wisdom of AP/DE classes for him.

Thank you all for the encouragement. I am always so glad to hear from those that have BTDT. I am breathing a little easier tonight! :)

:lol: I almost fell out of my chair at that one! I would not characterize him as enjoying his school :D He is taking a heavy load-he'll have 8 credits this year. I did not originally plan it that way, but some opportunities came up that we didn't want to miss. He takes several outside classes, so Mondays are big work days (he meets with me for writing and literature and does all subjects on Mondays). We usually finish up around 5:30. Tuesdays, he has several outside classes that are oddly timed, so he is out of the house from 8:15 until about 5:45 with a 2 hour break, which is usually used to decompress. So when he gets home he works for about an hour, then has an online class at 8:30. On Wed. he has chem lab from 2-5, so again he has to work some when he gets home. On Thurs, he usually tries to double up on some stuff because he has two classes on Friday and doesn't want to do any work when he gets home from them. Crazy, hectic schedule that I do not want to repeat, but really it is just Chemistry, Spanish, Theater, and a couple of extra curricular activities (Key Club and Honor Society). ETA: I did ask him today if he was working hard or being distracted by his laptop, phone, etc. He assured me he was working. I may have to start checking on him more often to make sure, but I really think his little brother would rat him out if he was goofing off!

ugh! How in the world are they supposed to write about the Civil War in 3-5 pages!?! I'm guessing they are supposed to narrow the topic down on their own?

We are struggling with writing also. Writing programs frustrate him because he doesn't like generic assignments, like "write an essay on your summer vacation". I don't blame him-they drive me batty also. I want our writing to be integrated to the rest of our curriculum. We are trying a couple of things. First, there was a post on this forum about the 8 sentence paragraph. Also, this list of rules: http://www.americanshakespearecenter.com/v.php?pg=184 So, we read Beowulf, used the SMARR lit guide, looked up and discussed some possible topics for an essay on Sparks notes, etc (just googled Beowulf essay topics and found tons of stuff). He has the 8 sentence paragraph rules. I gave him an hour to write the essay because he kept putting it off and building it up to be impossible in his head. After he finished, I printed off the 39 rules from the above link and highlighted the major rules he broke. I circled the first couple of instances on his essay paper and put the rule # beside it, then sent him off to finish finding the errors himself. He is rewriting it with corrections. Then we will do it again (I'm sure he missed some). After that, he has some major flaws in his argument that we will work on. Joy:glare: I may have him read through Rulebook for Arguments first and reread his essay after every few rules to see if he finds a problem. I told him that we are going to be working on refining this essay for at least a couple of months. I have been bad about just letting him make a few corrections and move on so he could read more books, but I finally decided to just STOP and perfect this essay first. The 39 rules are wonderful, and I think it is helping him to see that someone besides me does not let him start a sentence with "It" or use slang. ;) I think one of the things that has really helped him is having a formula of sorts-the 5 paragraph essay with 8 sentence paragraphs. Next year I want him to take a research paper class. I keep trying to remember what all types of writing I had to do in college, and it was mainly either answering essay questions on tests or doing research papers. I don't really remember having to write 5 paragraph essays, except for the intro writing class.

So much talk here and IRL about CLEP and AP and dual enrollment-is it wrong to just do high school as high school? I was looking at the samples questions for the English Lit CLEP, and I could only answer a couple of them. I know my son probably couldn't answer any of them! Am I doing him harm by just letting high school be high school? One of the colleges he is interested in doesn't even accept very many CLEPs. I don't know. I feel a tremendous amount of pressure to push, push, push but he is already up in his room working on school all day, most days from 8 til 6 or 7 at night or longer. And we still always feel behind. He has other things he needs to be working on, like physical activity :D and I can't even find the time for him to fit it in. Ugh. I guess I would like to hear from those of you that have just done high school without all the college level stuff and still had your kids do well with college acceptance/scholarships. Thanks

I agree with Challenge I. My dd started B in January, and while the Logic has been challenging, everything else has been pretty easy for her. We have always homeschooled classically, so I'm sure that has helped her. She will be 13 in March, and I am planning to put her in Challenge I in the fall. I have spent several hours reading the website and looking at samples of WAS, and I am so impressed with Challenge. I wish it would have been here locally when my oldest started high school!

I would love to see it also. We used SOTW for 1-4, read aloud, and my 5th grade son is using it again this year, reading it himself. My 5th grade dd is also using vol. 1-2 via Sonlight. I would love to have some more logic stage questions/activities for them!

Perplexors Reasoning and Reading What about spelling and vocabulary? Also, you could have him start a language. Our library website has free programs (online). There are some gentle Latin and Greek programs that he might be able to do independently. My dd did Lively Latin almost completely independently at 11.

Both. Our favorite grammar sequence has been FLL for 1-4, JAG for 5th, the Easy Grammar for a couple of years, then back to AG in high school.

Isn't Challenge I government and economics? Could you not just add in some other books/projects to beef it up if you feel like it's not enough? We just started Challenge B in January, and I have been trying to decide whether to go with Challenge A or I next year (dd will be 13). From the website, it looks like Challenge 1-4 gives you credits of .5 in gov, .5 in econ, 1.0 in World History, and 1.0 in US History. Not sure about the Art History in Challenge II. Do you feel like it is not enough to justify the credits, or are you wanting history on top of the government and econ? If you are just wanting to add more to the gov/econ, maybe look at the books MFW sells for that portion of the US history program. Also, I think Generation Joshua has a lot of free stuff for government if you join. You could also do a study of the Constitution. I think the Critical Thinking Company has some books on it. Did you know the American Legion has an oratory contest dealing with the Constitution? They have to write and give an 8-10 minute speech on one of the amendments, I believe. Scholarship money is given to the winners. That would be a great supplement. You could also attend Teen Pact. They have homework to do to prepare, so it's not just an event to attend.

:grouphug: I gave up folding laundry a few years ago. My kids have to do it. I wash and get it in the dryer, then they fold, hang, and put away. Your two oldest could easily do this, and your 6 year old could probably as well-at least the towels that don't need to be neat ;) Also, one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from WTM forums was to have the older kids take turns playing with the toddlers/babies to get one on one teaching time with the younger ones. So schedule your 8 year old to play for 30 minutes with the toddler and baby so you can work on phonics and math intensively with the 6 year old. Your 10 year old can be working independently at this time. Then switch and have the 10 year old play with the littles while you work with the 8 year old (maybe take a quick break to give the baby some snuggles and move to playpen, swing, nurse, whatever). Your 10 dd can read to the 3 year old and supervise easy art projects during this time too. I would shoot for having the three R's done by everyone before lunch, then have the afternoons while the little ones nap to read aloud history and science, do science experiments, art, and other things that they need help with. It has also helped us to have a loose schedule. The kids all have to have their rooms cleaned, dirty laundry in the laundry room, teeth brushed, clothes on, devotion read and be at the kitchen table by 8:30 for family meeting (dh reads Bible and talks to them for a few minutes). They also have other things that have to be done before they have any free time, like folding laundry, unloading dishwasher, emptying trash, exercises, etc. You will be surprised how much your kids can help out, and it is a MUST for homeschooling unless you can afford to hire a full time housekeeper! :D TT Math is not for everyone, I know, but it has been great to have computerized, self-grading math programs here, at least for two of the kids. FLL is great for English. You will have to do it with them, but the lessons are short and really work on memorizing definitions to help them retain the information. You can read SOTW aloud to everyone, and have the oldest take the tests while the youngest just answers the discussion questions orally and the middle child writes a short narration. Don't be discouraged if your youngest isn't seeming to retain anything, though. It will come with time. My now 11ds rarely ever answered the questions correctly at age 6 or 7, even 8, but now answers them all and writes his narrations beautifully. I have newly discovered and absolutely LOVE the elementary Apologia science books! You could read this aloud and have the oldest keep a notebook, do questions orally with the 8 year old, and just let the 6 year old listen in and help with the projects. Let Dad read the Bible in the morning or evening as a family. That hits all the basics. I always wanted my kids to do more (projects, art, etc), but reality usually kept us from it. ;) Also a 4 day week might help. You can then catch up on all the house stuff and run errands on the other day. I would really encourage you not to give up, especially if you feel the Lord has called you to do this. You are in a very difficult phase of life right now, but it is not impossible. My house still always seems a mess to me. With six people in one house it is inevitable-if everyone just leaves one or two things laying about, it's cluttered! I make tacos and spaghetti way too often because it is so easy and mindless to prepare. We are going to spend most of the day today catching up on laundry. But as I am preparing to send my oldest off to college in a couple of years, I can honestly say that I have no regrets. Every single second has been worth it. It has not always been pretty and it has never been perfect, but I cannot imagine life any other way. :grouphug:

First, :grouphug: I haven't read all the responses, but I'll start anyway. I agree that asking him for 15 minutes of structure is not too much. Could you listen to the memory work while in the car? Or just have it on as background noise while he is playing? I like the idea of practicing while doing jumping jacks or hopscotch. My 11ds still needs a ball in his hands all the time-perhaps you could play catch? Or offer candy/stickers for every time he memorizes something successfully? Good luck. I completely understand the concept of wanting him to do what is expected at CC. Too often in programs like these, I have seen parents just let their kids show up and require nothing at home. I think it is a valuable character trait that you are teaching. :)

Is there a reason she couldn't go on to Challenge I? My 12dd is taking Challenge B right now, and while it is rigorous and great prep for high school, I don't think I would count it as high school work without adding more science, history, and English. ETA: There are two high schoolers in her class. I'm not sure if they add anything to the Challenge work.

I've used Abeka with all my kids. I just use the Handbook for Reading and the Phonics workbook. I have them read a page out of HfR and do a worksheet each day. Also we use Bob Books instead of the Abeka readers. This is after they have learned to blend. I really don't see the point in using a program until they can blend. It has just led to frustration and tears in my experience. We played until then-just writing letters on the white board, on paper while waiting at the drs office, etc.; flash cards; computer games; Leap Frog dvds; lots of reading to her.

This is soooo true for me, a constant struggle. We have taken more outside classes the last couple of years, and I've found that most teachers (especially the ones who have actually taught in a school) require quite a bit less that I do!! It's just so hard to know how much to push.

It's going pretty well. Doing the Great Books (like Ecclesiastical History of the English People, Margery Kemp, etc) plus HoMW, plus other literature has been too much and we have had to cut some of the Great Books out. Other than that, we are chugging along pretty well.

Hi Crystal I guess my biggest question is about the worldview book. My friend did the same program at a coop, and it has been extremely time consuming. Usually she is having to write 6 essays over a two week period, plus other assignments. Not that I don't think worldview is important, but we are blessed with a wonderful church that goes over a lot of those issues during our Sunday night meeting and monthly teen youth meetings. Also, he is completing Hewitt's I Dare You! Bible study this year, which covers a lot of worldview issues. So, would it be possible to leave that out, and just get credit for history and English? I also seem to remember reading somewhere, probably here, that someone thought the history was light for the last two years (very vague, I know), probably because the Bible portion was so meaty. My son is a big history buff, so I want to make sure it is enough for him. Thanks so much!!

My experience is not with MFW, but I am learning that getting the writing skills down is extremely important! You could always do a World Geo program first, like Bob Jones 9th grade book. Then, if you really wanted to do ancients, you could AHL, WHL, and American History in one year with another program. Or skip AHL and use the other 3 MFW programs. If it is an either or option and you are certain you don't want to do AHL and the Comp class, I vote for the comp class and a geography class. The comp class will make everything else easier in the years to come.

I'm assuming that conceptual physics is lighter in the math department? Is there a prerequisite for it, or could a child doing Algebra II work through the conceptual physics at the same time?

Have you looked at Kinetic Books? They have three options from conceptual to calculus-based. It is self-grading and has virtual labs. I haven't used it, but we loved their Algebra I program. If we decide to do physics, that's the one we'll use. http://www.kineticbooks.com/products/physics/product_demo_physics.html

Ah...this makes much more sense now. I think it is a difference b/w countries. Most people I have talked to, whether public, private, or homeschooling, are focused on high school as prep for college. That is probably one aspect of classical schooling that I have failed in(one of many, lol).

Maybe I'm crazy, or maybe I am just coming from a different worldview, but I have always thought one of the greatest things about homeschooling was the opportunity to customize their education. I am so proud of my son for knowing what he wants to do, for wanting to serve his community and country. I also know he could change his mind, but is skipping physics really going to limit opportunities for a child who knows that he would never choose a career in the math/science field? If anything else, it would be law school or teaching. Wouldn't the physics principles he needs to know for ballistics,etc, be included in the class, since physics is not a prerequisite for taking the class? His math and physical science classes have covered speed, distance, friction, angles, etc. I'm still not sure what to do. Honestly, the Kinetic Books Conceptual Physics looks fun to me :D We will talk to his Law and Justice teacher and probably call a couple of the colleges he's interested in and get their take. As far as taking physics simply for the sake of it, in order to understand the workings of things-I'm really in awe of people who can do that. I remember next to nothing from college physics, biology, or chemistry. The saying "if you don't use it, you lose it" has been especially true for me. I went right into mommy-hood from college and never worked in my field, so all the knowledge fled. It has helped vaguely in teaching my own kids, but that is about it. If he was going into a major that required physics in college, there would be no question about it. But he's not.