Can you not see my avatar? I can see it. :confused1:

I was one who was too lazy to put one up, but y'all motivated me enough to do it. It didn't take but a minute! And truthfully, I do prefer having/seeing an avatar vs. not.

Oh, my dd has definitely given me lectures on this, as well! The character is the Doctor. Not Dr. Who or even Doctor Who The show is Doctor Who, not Dr. Who Apparently, abbreviation is big no-no. You should have seen the look she gave me when I put Dr. instead of Doctor! :lol:

That's sad. My dd is going to be :cursing: . I wonder how much of it is because BBC takes so long between seasons and such. The actors have to work, so they can't put their lives on hold waiting for BBC to get their act together. Or, are the actors just not that dedicated to another season? Which, I don't think is the case, based on the things I've seen. I'd say it's BBC's fault. :mad:

"If you can't take care of your hair, then I am going to cut it." This is what I told my girls when they were 5-7 years old. They wouldn't do anything with their long hair and balked every time I tried to brush or put it up. :glare: They wanted the long hair without the effort, and it just doesn't work that way. They complained at all the tangles, complained when I tried to put it up or braid it to keep it from being tangles, didn't want me to help, and didn't even try to brush it themselves. I didn't expect them to do it all themselves, just for them to TRY and stop refusing help. If your dd is willing to put forth the effort to try to care for the long hair she likes, then I'd meet her there and help her with for it. But if she just wants the princess locks without even trying to care for it, then I'd chop it off.

I think there's a difference between passing on a belief and brainwashing. I think back on how I was raised, and I'm sure my parents didn't intend to "brainwash" me, but that's pretty much the result when you're told that if you don't believe a certain way, then you're going to burn in hell for eternity, and when questions that cannot be explained are brushed aside with "you just have to have faith" and "we'll understand that when we get to heaven." If kids are not free to accept something else without such dire consequences, then IMO, they are being brainwashed. So, I guess my answer would be that when you share, explain, and teach, you're passing on your belief, but when you start issuing eternal ultimatums, then you're brainwashing.

Rosie_0801, I meant to ask this earlier...what book is this?

:bigear: Interesting! I've always had to the desire to visit the north eastern coast! Don't really know why, just want to one day do it. Glad I'm not the only one who finds the area fascinating.

Just to be clear, when kids are involved, and as I stated earlier, I'm thinking younger than 16, the situation might not *necessarily* mean that one would automatically go to the police FIRST. Not that the police might not be involved at all, but that in some situations counselling and appropriate actions by the parents might be what is needed, not being arrested....and yes, even 12 year olds can be arrested. In the TOS situation, without more information, I can't condemn the parents for not automatically going to the police. If it was an immature 14 year old and the 6 year old didn't seem too upset and there didn't seem to be any indication of pain or trauma, I can see the parents thinking that counselling and dealing with the situation with the adults involved would be better in the long run. I don't know all the details, so I'm not going to jump on them and say, "You should have gone straight to the police," without knowing more.

Absolutely a two year age gap between any kids indicates that there was very likely coercion involved, and as I understand it, the age gap was even greater in the TOS story, but IMO, it doesn't necessarily mean that the police need to be involved. As Laurie4b pointed out, it could be making the situation worse for the victim. I'm just saying that I don't think it was necessarily bad that the couple didn't first go to the police, that's all.

Having a BTDT perspective, if children, even younger teens, are involved in sexual inappropriateness with one another, I would certainly pause to evaluate the situation before involving any outside authorities. Kids do things, they experiment sexually....they play "doctor." If it is between kids, then you need to really talk things through and find out what's going on FIRST. So, yeah, if two kids were in my own family, I would definitely talk things through before automatically going to the police. This doesn't mean that teens can't abuse younger children. It just means that the situation requires a bit different evaluation than if adults were involved. And I would include any teen over 16 as an adult. In this TOS case, I don't blame the parents for trying to work through something that at the time, they may have viewed as immature, inappropriate sexual behavior involving children. (14 year olds can be VERY immature, depending on the child, IMO) So, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for not first involving police right away. However, this tendency to cover things up and protect the accused is definitely a problem in our society, not just in religious groups but also in any organization that involves children: all flavors of schools, academic organizations, camps, etc.

Agreed. And it's not exclusive to Muslims by any means.

**acid-loving plants

I was 16 and a junior in high school when I met my now dh. He was 22 and just out of college. We were both interested in each other at first sight, but dh thought I was older and in college. I thought he was still in college. Both of us knew that we could not pursue any relationship while I was still in high school. I graduated at 17, but then I went away for the summer. We didn't start actual dating until after I turned 18. IMO, the age difference is not going stop attraction, but you don't have to act on that attraction. IMO, until both parties are out of high school, they should respect each other and wait.

When my raw milk would get old and sour, I would use it for anything that called for buttermilk...no additional vinegar necessary. So I think using it for biscuits or pancakes would be fine. But if you don't feel comfortable consuming it at all, then I would pour it on some plants instead of down the drain.

People must like it...it's already out of stock! I can't even see the picture.

Wow. I'm impressed! Sorry kiddo isn't well. :grouphug: I'm going outside and fixing my flower beds that have gone to the weeds. Then, I will relax and seize the weekend. ;)

I understand where he's coming from, and you. But I don't agree. First, when I started down this path, it was to make me stronger in my current faith, not pull me away from it. I wasn't angry or even disillusioned with my previous faith. I just wanted some clarification, and I have a tendency to be easily swayed, so I wanted to make sure I was listening only to God. If God chose to speak through my dh, then great. But I didn't want to be the reason dh said anything. I thought my little question would be answered quickly and I would move on. I never, NEVER expected this! My entire paradigm shifted. After that, I spent maybe a couple of weeks just adjusting to that. Then, I did talk to dh. At that time, I did not consider myself Wiccan/witch or pagan. This was over two years ago. It's been within the last six months that I'm finally fine-tuning my beliefs enough to even put them in a category. Before, I'd just say I was very eclectic in my beliefs. And then, you'd have to understand that my dh is very analytical and doesn't like change. He will break apart everything to tell you why it doesn't work. This is great for his work, not so great for getting people to confide in you. I cannot go to him for help unless I am able to take his telling me why everything is wrong. If I want to try something new, to bring him one board, I must first be able to answer every argument that he brings up and even then, I have to give him time to accept change. It's just how he works. I accept this. (Of course, his resistance to change makes what I've done even harder.) I accept how dh works and thinks, but it does limit our conversations. We have had many conversations about his analyzing and negativity, but while I think he understands what I'm saying on an intellectual level, he also says that's just how he thinks. Okay. Again, I can accept that. I have learned to deal with it, but he also has to deal with the consequences of it. (BTW, I learned this years ago, way before my spiritual shift.) So while I understand how and why dh feels betrayed, I cannot see how I could have realistically done things any differently.

Thanks for the advice. I doubt I would actually use that term w/ my kids or even husband, but they consider one to be other, so it wouldn't make that much of a difference. But still, you're right, Wicca sounds "nicer." :glare: :rolleyes: I used the word witch specifically in this thread because (1) if you're coming from a conservative fundamentalist view, that conveys the level of heresy I've committed, and (2) for those that do understand, there is a difference between Wiccan and witch. Rosie, I agree, there are a lot of people that I'm like that about, too! This isn't what you think! Even the thought of trying to explain things to certain people is like this:

Thanks for the support, Mom-ninja. I was not offended at all by Scarlett's comment. I get where she's coming from. I truly do. And she may be right. There may be nothing that I can do that can make this easier or better for my dh.

Thanks for all the replies. I will try to reply in general, instead of quoting posts. It might be easier that way. As far as rituals go, I may have phrased that incorrectly. I can really relate to the way the cycles of the moon, seasons, etc. are viewed in Wicca and many pagan beliefs. It's not so much specific rituals. My dh doesn't need traditional. I don't think that's what is important to him. It's the actual beliefs which would be a deal breaker. And that's the core of the problem. I will look into Episcopal and United Church of Christ, so thanks for those recommendations. As far as the kids: my kids are a wide range of ages. The younger ones, I'm not worried about. I will answer questions as they arise and we'll just deal with things as they come up. The older ones, especially the teens, need more than that, though. They already know that my beliefs have changed and that I don't agree with some key issues that our church believes, and that's why I don't go anymore except on Sunday mornings. Part of me does want to "de-program" the kids! But I can't just do that without regarding my dh's views as well. And the teens in particular have many friends at church and are very involved with the youth group and other programs. I don't think it would be respectful of them as young adults for me to just suddenly pull them out of all that. I do have two sisters and a brother who have followed very similar paths as I am on, so it is wonderful that I can talk to them, and they totally understand! It's interesting that out of all my siblings, really only one has stayed in the faith that our parents brought us up in. But my siblings' experiences are not quite the same since their differing worldviews didn't impact their spouse and kids like mine (they changed faiths at a much earlier time in their lives)...and I want to be careful how and what I share with them because I don't want to skew their view of my dh. Dh really is a wonderful man!

:grouphug: I understand. My oldest is starting a private school this fall. He's 17 and starting as a junior because we just weren't getting it done homeschooling. He's happy because he gets to play football! I'm happy because I know he'll get the structure that he needs that I just can't seem to provide here at home.

How do you help your spouse and family deal with the "new you?" (Okay...this turned out quite a bit longer than I intended! Sorry!!!) In the other thread (the one started by Hoppy), there are several comments that the dh was the same person that he was before. Well, in my case, I'm not! THANK GOODNESS!!!! I am so much more happy, free, and content than I EVER was before. I don't struggle with depression so much. (It's more of a side-issue. I can deal with the occasional times it creeps up, as it opposed to it consuming my life.) It's really ironic, because my previous faith taught that the only way to truly be content and joyful is through Jesus. But my joy comes through all aspects of the Divine, including the God and Goddess, not the Jesus that I grew up believing in. I don't think Jesus was ever that person. I was a devout, conservative Baptist, and now I consider myself more eclectic Wiccan. I don't really identify with the label of Christian anymore, because while I actually do believe what Jesus taught in the four gospels, I interpret it vastly differently than I did before, and my personal theory is that most who call themselves Christians (as in, followers of Christ) are actually followers of Paul, and I'm not convinced that he accurately represented what Jesus taught (or maybe, his writings have simply been manipulated by others). Anyway, I have no problem believing in Jesus and also believing in the God and Goddess and magick. And I find great comfort and peace through the rituals associated with Wicca and in practicing the Craft. My dh is really struggling to deal with this. He feels betrayed and resents the fact that I went on my spiritual journey without him. He feels that I should have talked to him about my questions and doubts. I disagree. I wanted that between me and God only. Anyway, we're trying to figure out how to make this work. Dh doesn't like going to church without me, but I only go to Sunday morning worship service, unless one of the kids have a program or special. I am trying not to be bitter about some of the things I was taught, and it helps to have some distance. I also am slightly offended at some of the views held at church...though I try to accept that they have as much right to believe what they want as I do. Right now, I'm basically a closet witch. Even though dh sort of knows, for his benefit, I try not to flaunt what I do and believe. And I try to keep a Christian point of view when discussing things with the kids. When religious things come up, I usually refer them to what Jesus himself said. However, I cannot continue to hide what I really believe from my children. I won't do that. I don't want to worry about explaining my angel candles or my books or any of my other stuff. If they see a pentacle on my desk, it doesn't mean I'm a devil worshiper and (more surprisingly) it doesn't have anything to do with Supernatural. BUT here's some of the problems I'm facing: When I do tell my kids that I'm a practicing witch, this means I'm fully out of the broom closet, and this is going to affect my entire family. I can't expect my younger ones to not mention something to the rest of my family. My parents are going to be devastated. My brother and sil will be, too---and they'll likely restrict visits so that my kids, who are close to their kids, will suffer. :( Dh would like to find a church that would work for both of us---but neither of us are sure that's even possible. I want to try out the UU church (I love their website!) or maybe a local Methodist church that I know is very open...but dh is strongly against the UU church and I don't think he'd like the other one either simply because of how accepting they are. I'm just not sure if it's even possible to find middle ground on this! In the meantime, what do I do about church? I feel like a hypocrite because everyone assumes that I agree with what they believe, and I don't! If/when I ask to have my name removed, again, this is going to affect my whole family. I'm considering just having my membership moved to the UU church. But if it comes out that I'm a witch, then I will probably face church discipline. Even if it doesn't go that far, I'm afraid my kids might be (1) ostracized because of me, (2) pitied because of me, and/or (3) told that I'm going to burn in hell because of what I believe. :mad: How do I help dh? He is angry and bitter--and I get that I'm the one who changed, so his feelings of betrayal are not entirely unjustified. While I no longer agree with his faith, I do not want him to reject it because of me, either. I want him to accept that I believe differently and that it's okay---but I'm not sure that's compatible with his beliefs. (FTR--if he had been the one to change, and my beliefs had remained the same, I would have taken the kids and left him. :( So, I understand the gravity of what I've done.) Dh isn't being mean or snotty or anything! So please don't think that. If you're familiar with the term, he's what you would consider a Mr. Steady. He's also Virgo, and though he's often blunt, he's not harsh or inconsiderate. I know this is a lot to dump on you all. :blush: This has been something I've been thinking through for a while, and wanting to ask about. I know there are others that are in similar situations and others who have traveled similar roads, so I would appreciate any words of wisdom or voices of experience.

I guess you could delete it from the carousel (thanks...I'd forgotten, too!) each time you're done with it, or before you hand it to the kiddos. That seems like a lot of hassle, though, so I understand what you mean. Sorry. Maybe someone else will have a better idea.