FWIW, 1500 babies for a home birth midwife, especially a lay (direct entry, whatever you call it) is a LOT. My first baby was attended by a wonderful direct entry midwife, and my second would have also if he hadn't been too fast a birth for the midwife to get there . . . (so he was safely and nicely delivered in the hospital by our back up OB). A home birth can typically include 12-24 or (many) more hours of attendance by the midwife at the birth itself, plus 2 or so hour visits for several days following. They don't show up just to catch the baby . . . they show up early on in the birth and are there for the whole thing, awake, coaching, checking on you throughout the labor and for hours post-delivery (and coming back for several more hours once a day for a few days). And of course prenatal care visits of an hour or two up to many visits. In order to be available for such an event, the midwife really can't schedule more than a couple births per month, maybe one per week max if she is working full time and has good back-up with other midwives to cover if she ends up with two births happening at the same time. So, one a week 50 weeks a year would be 50 babies a year. 1500 would be 30 YEARS of full time midwifing. That's a LOT of babies and experience. Typically, a lay midwife always has a second midwife there for most or all of the birth as well, so she likely attends a second birth for every one she is the main midwife for. So, at a "one per week" schedule, she'd be attending TWO 24+/- hour births each week in addition to all the many hours of pre and post natal care . . . I've BTDT with one lay midwife birth (wonderful), one OB attended 4 hour in-and-out hospital birth (the one that was planned as home birth but logistics made it impossible for the planned midwife OR her backup to get there on time due to the illegality of home birth in our state at that time and so the limited number of home birth attendants -- fortunately we had a supportive OB who provided a wonderful and very brief hospital birth and then we got back home for the recovery), and one CNM attended home birth (in a state that was home birth friendly). All were good births with good attendants. I had complete confidence in our attendants in all cases. The home birth attendants were, however, unmatched in their skill, compassion, and peaceful support of a healthy natural birth.

I have no doubts you did a fantastic job homeschooling on a modest budget. Nicely done!! I was, indeed, talking a minimum of $500 on basic homeschooling supplies and curricula. The rest of the things you listed would, of course, easily get it into the many thousands (which, yes, I have used every item on that expensive list . . .) I'm ever impressed with folks who can homeschool cheaper. Me, I always tend to buy the *entire* curriculum that is the newest, greatest edition . . . and have to set up a $1000 lab to do a high school science . . . and bought every cool manipulative I thought of when the kids were little . . . I *know* it can be done cheaper, but it boggles my mind to think of doing it cheaper than $500/yr/kid long term. Even that seems like a big challenge. One year of SonLight Core is $500+ and that just covered readers and history . . . So, yes, I spent a lot more, at least $1000/yr/kid on average in basic curricula and supplies (I'd think I could have done it on 500/yr/kid if I shopped aggressively and re-sold aggressively) . . . and I have been averaging much, much more if you included the other items on your list (all of which I considered very important for the education I wanted my kids to have, but I recognize that not all families consider arts education imperative and others don't need or want to use outsourced language tutoring or AP classes) . . . and since *I* haven't ever done it any other way, I'd not recommend someone try, as it would seem hard and frustrating to me, and I wouldn't want to recommend something to someone that would intimidate *me*. Again, though, of course I know that others have done and can do it for totally free or nearly so. More power to all of you!! Way to go!

FWIW, there was a time (more than one, actually) when we were broke. We had two mortgages on two houses, a BIG heap of student loans, and two kids (so far), and a beginner-vet's salary. I got a PT job -- actually more than one. I worked on dh's day off, working in my aunt's office doing paper work. On my other weekends/evenings free when dh could watch the kids, I did painting, sealed my mom's driveway, and did all sorts of other random work for my mom. My aunt and my mom had some spare cash and jobs they needed done. I did them gratefully -- despite being vastly "overqualified" for those tasks -- but they worked for my schedule and I'm not averse to working hard, and I'm not unaware of what it is to be broke. Another time, when the economy stumbled in 2008 and we were still new business owners and quite vulnerable to the dip, I took up couponing on steroids, and brought our grocery bill down from 1000+/mo to under 100/wk for over a year while we recovered our financial stability. I did it like a PT job and saved huge. Meanwhile, my kids were always taking instrument lessons, etc . . . using all available resources, as always. I've been broke. I've worked hard. When we started our business, dh worked literally 100 hr weeks (for at least 2 years) while I worked 50-60 hr weeks, with 3 young kids at home (ages 2-7). We still homeschooled, but had to hire help to watch them as I had to work (couldn't hire it done, and it was survival mode). We had our first two kids while dh was in school, and we still put our kid in lessons, activities, etc . . . while we were paying for them with student loans. Good golly, we made plenty of silly decisions, generally spending more than is wise on our kids, but, it worked out OK for us. I don't recommend others follow my lead on all those silly choices, but, for us, we made it to the other side, and we don't regret the expenses. I think some posters are inappropriately taking offense at my posts. The original question asked if homeschooling for free (or nearly so) was wishful thinking (or not). I replied with my experience and opinion. Feel free to disagree, but acting like I am some crazed anti-poor person is really inappropriate, IMHO.

:sad: (((hugs))) Sending you a virtual bottle of wine and a great novel, and filling the tub for you. Hang in there. Be strong, be yourself, love generously.

Depends on if you'd be tempted ever, in any way, whatsoever, to flirt with him or cheat with him. If you are 100% solid in your marriage, and your husband wouldn't mind, then I'd do it maybe, if I liked him as a person and wanted to casually touch base and see what he's been up to. I have one or two exes on my Facebook, but we are very lightly in touch -- just a few times a year commenting here or there on a post very casually. (Sometimes there are a couple messages when someone first friends you, that's different, IMHO.) No men I know do a lot of Facebook, lol. If there was a bunch of PM'ing, etc, I'd unfriend just because I wouldn't want my husband doing that with an ex, lol. I'm the jealous type, so I wouldn't want to do something myself that I would NOT enjoy dh doing.

I'm very sorry to make you feel that way. I didn't mean to do that. There is a huge range of what is adequate, and I didn't intend to imply that one required all those things to have an adequate education, nor did I intend to imply that anyone does not work hard enough. I intended to communicate that I think *some* financial resources are needed to provide a good education for *most* families. Public schools are funded with about 10k per year per student. That option is readily available to all, thankfully. I certainly don't think every family needs to spend 10k/yr per student to properly home educate, but I do think that being ready to commit some significant portion of the family resources is generally needed. We each, hopefully, do the best we can do. Whether that be home, public, or private school or some combination thereof. My family does the best *we* can do given our limitations, resources, and abilities. We all have our limits!

It seems to me that the person being led by God to do something should find a way to self-finance that thing. So, get a second job for a few months to save up the plane tickets. If God is leading you to do something, then God probably wants you to work for it, not mooch for it. IMHO.

I have to point out that your signature lists many, many specific (great) curricula, which would cost many hundreds of dollars per child per year. That contradicts your assertion that sh'ing for free or nearly free would be entirely doable . . . Obviously, you are not doing it that way, lol.

I used this stuff -- brick anew -- and it is AWESOME. It really is as easy as they make it sound. It came out great and still looks fabulous 8 years later. http://www.brick-anew.com

I consider long term more than a year or two. You can muddle along for a year or two pretty easily. I'm not saying it's impossible to school well for little or no money. Surely there are some incredibly resourceful people. Some people have the inner resources to self-teach nearly anything and/or make manipulatives and other creative hands on experiences. Others have access to fantastic public libraries and/or live in a community with great free public resources (i.e., DC with the Smithsonian and all its free activities). It is *possible* to homeschool for 0, for sure. I just think it is unrealistic for the majority of families. I think most families would be better off spending a few hours a week on an extra income producing activity (or clipping coupons to save $) than they would be to try to school for under $500 or so per year per kid. I know it can be done; I just would not advise someone try to do it. My perspective is from someone who has never been able to budget for kid stuff, so, sure, take it with a salt shaker of salt. If I felt the kid needed it, we just did it, without much if any consideration of cost. Kid stuff was off budget. I couldn't afford new bras for myself, but, sure, let's sign the kid up for harp lessons . . . Yah, well. That's me, but it's worked out OK, just meant that dh has worked VERY hard to earn enough money to support the kids, lol. So, personally, my head would have exploded if I'd tried to school for under 1k/yr per kid. I'm sure we've averaged many multiples that when you include music stuff. But, even with just the basics, we've spent over 1k/yr on average per kid. Once they hit high school and we outsource some AP classes, we're talking 3-4k/yr (about 800-900 per AP class) or more without music. It adds up FAST. Even if you are self-teaching, which I've done for most high school science, I've spent 500+/yr per kid per year for science alone in high school between chemistry supplies, microscopes, high school texts and teacher books, etc. Educationally, for our kids, I personally choose what I think is best and go with that regardless of cost; I understand others make more financial compromises. I'd be making a lot of compromises if I were on a 500-1000/kid/yr budget, but I do believe I could do a great job even with that constraint. But, with a lower constraint, I just can't fathom doing as good a job as our kids deserve without being able to spend some significant sums to buy curricula, materials, etc.

Some ideas . . . + Commit to a new/increased exercise activity by signing up for a class, setting a walk/bike/whatever date with a friend, taking up a new goal/activity (start couch to 5k or some similar goal-oriented exercise). + Start a new hobby/project of cooking some healthy lower cal things that you'd like. I love soups, so when I'm trying to lose weight, especially in the winter, I make a lot of low calorie soups. A friend recently posted a site with 100 whole foods crock pot meals, and I'm a big believer in whole foods, so now I'm going through that list to find things we'd like. + Pre-eat before food events by eating something filling, tasty, but low starch/low sugar. A bowl of soup, a salad, a pile of veggies and hummus, etc. Just don't show up to an event hungry if there will be bad-for-you food all over the place. Then, enjoy the treats, but only in small quantities.

Insanity is awesome. And Shawn T is hot, hot, hot. Makes you want to workout, lol.

I think that homeschooling long term at a very low cost is unrealistic. I think doing it for 500-1000/yr per kid is perfectly feasible. I think people should expect to, if needed, either have the primary wage earner increase their earnings via OT or a second PT job, or a non-working spouse should consider getting a PT job to support the cost if needed -- maybe a seasonal job would do it (babysitting over the summer break? holiday retail?) and not require a full year-round lifestyle change.

IME, a good glass of TEA every single evening really helps reduce anxiety. IME, after a few days, it happens that the TEA takes longer to drink, which makes it even more delightful. Try it for a couple weeks, and see if it makes a difference. In fact, it is helpful for both spouses. :leaving: ps. I am not kidding.

I would not accept that, and I'd not let them work on my child (beyond what you did, which seems perfectly reasonable in your urgent need). It seems bizarre and horrifying. No way, no how. My only supposition is that the office handles a lot of "free" gov't insured patients and, so, is used to being able to dictate to clients who have little choice in the matter. In any event, I'd never set foot there again, and I'd let them know exactly why, just in case any person in charge has a bout of sanity and might reconsider their bizarre business practices. FWIW, my kids and I have all had plenty of dental work, including a significant dental injury in one kid when she was under 8, requiring repeat visits for extraction, etc. Never, ever, has anyone had any difficulty getting my kid to cooperate, and I've always been able to be present with a SEAT, lol.

Because some vet hospitals suck big time. They might have crappy equipment, antiquated anesthesia protocols, minimum wage teenage staff, no surgical assistant, no autoclave, no sterile surgical suite . . . They might not even be planning the same procedure being quoted somewhere else. Alternatively, the cheap hospital might be just great, but run by someone who has no debt (hospital and land already paid for, no student loans to pay) and underpaid staff, possibly be personally independently wealthy, and/or be financially idiotic with no retirement plans, so may be able to afford to undercharge. Of course, it might be that the pricey hospital is run by a money grubbing corporation or individual, bent on taking advantage of those in need. Often times estimates do NOT compare apples to apples. Low ball estimates OFTEN end up MUCH higher at final bill, as many things weren't included. For instance, many hospitals consider pain relief an "extra" and don't include it on their phone estimates. Many practices don't include things like IV catheter placement or IV fluids either. . . . IMHO, ethical hospitals include everything they recommend on the estimate, but not all practices are ethical in that way, IMHO. A fully equipped modest small vet hospital costs about $400k in equipment to set up, not including the real estate. A vet school education costs about 300k these days, not including undergrad. Some hospitals have professional lay staff, who are treated well, get a living wage and benefits. Others have very poorly trained folks who get very bad wages and no benefits -- those practices tend to have high turnover. Dh is a vet, and our vet hospital tends to be in the mid-to-upper end of price shopping. There are some practices that are more (mostly a couple corporate owned ones that are profit driven), and some that are cheaper (in particular a couple really shitty practices that shouldn't be practicing on butcher-shop meat let alone pets) and others that, like us, bobble around in the mid-to-upper end of the estimates, depending on what particular thing you are shopping, because there is NO STANDARDIZATION in pricing. We have staff that have been with us for many years (some a decade), get 4 weeks paid time off, more paid maternity/paternity leave, insurance, retirement with matching, etc, etc. They are treated well by us and they provide incredible value to our clients and patients. Staff cost is our single biggest expense . . . We could cut corners there like some practices do, but we believe in our staff, and our clients are happy enough with us to accept our pricing. All that said, we NEVER quote surgeries unless we've examined the dog, except for routine spay/neuter prices. We'd never prepare an estimate unless our vet had done an exam . . .

I agree that it is bizarre that the moms of the infants don't speak up. Steam would have come out my ears the first time . . . the second time, I would have exploded, for sure, if there had been a second time. To me, any of the above responses are appropriate. That mom needs to get a clue or get OUT. I wouldn't worry about her feelings; I'd just be worrying about the babies! Toddlers need supervision and can easily be dangerous. That mom is clueless.

I think the hosts are asshats.

ps. It is OK to do things we don't like. I don't LIKE exercise most of the time. I do LIKE how it makes me feel. (Some days I do like it. But most days I just make myself get out there and do it. In fact, two days in a row recently, I began my daily workout post with "I didn't want to do it. I did it anyway." The next day began, "I didn't want to do it, again. I did it anyway, again." Finally, today, I wanted to workout. It was a relief not to have to force myself out, lol. I don't LIKE to eat veggies instead of a bag of chips. I do LIKE how I feel when I eat whole healthy foods. I don't LIKE to feel hungry. Together, eating well and exercising makes me strong, calm, and lean. I LIKE that result, so I commit to the process . . . I don't LIKE to clean the bathroom either, but I like a clean bathroom. I didn't LIKE to push the babies out. But I sure love those babies! All this is to say that it is OK to accept that you will do things you don't like to do in order to achieve a result that is important to you. You will need to either accept the extra weight or commit to some discomfort in the form of exercise and/or calorie restriction . . . There is not a magic answer . . . . but there are many decent options.

I had 27 pounds I wanted to lose. 17 to get to a healthy BMI and another 10 to be at my dream weight. I've lost 15 so far, in 32 days. I'm aiming for 1-2 pounds per week from here on out, so about another 6 weeks to my goal. (I lost 10 pounds in 10 days, and then about 1-2 pounds per week since then.) I've done it by: 1) 4 day fast (could be a modified juice fast or whatever). I consumed about 600 calories a day in liquid form. I'd personally advise doing that via whole foods fruit and vegetable juices, but, personally, I did it mainly via alcoholic beverages (evenings) and gatorade (during my runs and bikes). I'd never fasted before, and hadn't actually planned this one, but it really did work wonders, so I'd recommend something along the lines of a brief fast to kickstart the weight loss and break cravings and get you comfortable with the sensation of hunger. Hunger isn't really that big a deal, lol. 2) 1-2+ hours vigorous exercise every day. 2+ hours if the form of exercise allows for it. I've been averaging probably 12 hours per week. I consider this a PT job, lol. I have the time right now, as my mom recently passed away, and caring for her was a 40+ hr/wk responsibility. Anyway, I know many folks don't have that amount of time available to exercise, but I do, so that's what I'm doing. It's healthier and cheaper than therapy, lol. 3) Focusing on vegetables and whole foods for meals and snacks. Making lots of vegetable soups, chili, salads, grilled meats and vegetables, etc. Avoiding overdosing on carbs and sweets. The only reason I can see that this has been a fairly painless transition for me is the 4 day fast at the beginning, which kickstarted my weight loss and also broke my carb/sugar craving cycle (addiction, whatever you want to call it). I am still eating anything I want, but in very focused quantities . . . I might have a small serving of some tasty dessert, but not a 1000 calorie dessert most nights. :) My goal is to eat the way I want to eat for the rest of my life. I'm not a strict dieter type. Since I am burning 1000+ calories a day exercising, I can get away with a lot of leeway in my diet and still lose. That's what *I* need. I'd much prefer to run/bike/hike for 2 hrs/day and eat 2000-2500 calories a day than eat 1200 calories a day while just walking a little bit . . . Also, building muscle mass via exercise boosts the metabolism, looks good, etc. It is also really good for your health, and most important to ME, really, really good for my mental health. In particular, vigorous outdoor exercise is my magic. For me, running is my "thing", but it's been almost 3 years since my last marathon, and I have a lot of work to do before I can get back to the 2-3 hour runs I most love, so I am biking on alternate days, which I can readily do for 2+ hours without breaking my legs, lol. I plan to keep doing what I'm doing until I hit my goal weight, and then I'll likely keep on doing it, just with more eating, as I actually like to exercise this much. I've done it before with marathon training, and it makes me calm and happy.

If she's only 6 hours away, can you ask her if you can jump in your car and come celebrate with them? Be a witness, take them out to a fancy dinner, and have some special memories. Tell her "you tell me when and where, and I'll be there!" and she might take you up on it!

Even though I disagree with the content and purpose of the flyer, I believe that Office Depot should have printed it. If I managed a print shop, and my employee refused service on that flyer, I'd have given one fair warning, and then fired upon next offense. If my business were printing, I'd print anything that was not illegal or obscene or dangerous. I would likely refuse to print something that I believed might incite violence or was HATEFUL, but something I disagreed with for political or personal reasons -- it's none of my beeswax unless it is truly dangerous or otherwise illegal. I WOULD refuse to print a "come to the rally at Dr. Joe's personal residence because he is a baby-murderer" because I believe that is dangerous. People should do their jobs. People should not take a job that will put them in a position to violate their religious or moral convictions. If you abhor alcohol, don't work somewhere it is served. If you abhor God-talk, don't work in a church. If you're a religiously convicted vegan, don't take a job in meat processing plant. Etc. I'm an atheist and think religion is generally both harmful and mostly evil, but I let my nice housekeeper use my printer all the time to print her church flyers, God-promoting stuff. That's my personal printer and just a favor -- not even part of my JOB. People have a right to the religious freedom, but they do NOT have a right to accept one job and then pick and choose what parts of it they feel like doing.

pps. Just have the girls practice their Suzuki rep while on the trip. And bring a book of new holiday songs for them to work on as new stuff. They don't need lessons, but they DO need to keep playing!

Traveling with violins is easy-peasey. Just have each child carry her violin on board as her "personal item". She can ALSO bring a carry-on. Honestly, it's no big shakes. My son flies with his guitar routinely as his personal item. Airlines are actually very nice about it. Loosen the strings a bit before packing the instruments for the flights. Just in case. Enjoy! ps. Yes, we were Suzuki parents and now have three mature musicians . . . We always brought instruments on trips. It is a hassle, but it is worthwhile. If nothing else, it affirms your value on daily practice -- sending a strong message to the kids.

(((Hugs))) to all. That stage of my life is past, as Mom died in June, but I just wanted to send (((hugs))) to those still in the trenches. It is a brutal, terrible, journey, but it can be beautiful, too. If it is any consolation, I wanted to share that when I was at the early stages years ago, so many people tried to terrify me out of moving Mom in with us, out of truly committing to her . . . insisting that she'd be violent, hateful, and that caring for her would ruin my marriage and make my kids hate me. (Those are quotes!) I want to say that despite Mom's dementia and ALZ, she never was hateful or violent AT ALL. To her dying day, she maintained the grace and kindness that had been her character always. It was hard, and we all struggled and suffered, but choosing LOVE is always the right choice. We turned our lives and our home upside down to make every effort to maximize Mom's wellbeing, and It worked. It was OK. It is possible to care for and love your own children and spouse while ALSO being a primary caregiver for your aging parent. It IS POSSIBLE. Not guaranteed, not always right, not easy, but possible, for some families, for some people. I don't regret a moment I spent caring for Mom. My kids don't hate me. My spouse didn't leave me. In fact, he made me love him even more because I got to witness his incredible humanity and generosity of loving Mom through that disease. It was hard, but it didn't hurt us. It made us better and stronger.