:lol:

As the mother of many boys who spend hours reading AND hours playing outdoors every day (and are all on the tall-and-slim end of the spectrum), I can't understand this perspective at all. It doesn't have to be a choice between being intellectual and being physical. A healthy person is both. My little ones take books up into trees, and in their backpacks when they ride their bikes. I think that can be pretty normal for homeschoolers.

Have you had anyone help you interpret growth charts? I think you are misunderstanding how to read a growth chart. According to the figures you gave, he's a very tall, slim boy but certainly not underweight. I recommend that you do seek out a nutritionist or other medical health professional for some counseling on how to proceed. Did someone prescribe pediasure?

Yes. :001_huh: Some people do have fine homes that they keep clean and neat. Even homeschoolers. Some decorate and clean their homes by themselves, some hire it done, but lots and lots of people have nicely kept and beautiful homes. And anyone who looks at photos of Ann and her husband can easily see by the family resemblance that those fine children are theirs, too. I'm pretty sure we are indeed looking at Ann's kids at home. Strange question! I hope she doesn't read here, lest she get discouraged and wonder why she ever thought she should share her home, her life, her religion, her compassion, or her beautiful thoughts. Because I want her to keep sharing.

:lol:

I don't think it is too perfect. I think she has excellent taste and the income to match, and she probably made sure all was tidied, dusted, and swept before she snapped the photos of that beautiful room.

Yes, indeed. And when that is compounded by a manipulative church or homeschool group environment full of pastors, mothers, and grandmothers insisting that all the parents use the same methods, a Mom can lose the ability to hear her own thoughts. In those impossibly difficult moments at home, she isn't listening for the guidance of the Holy Spirit or for her own common-sense judgment! She can't hear those things anymore, because she is hearing all the many voices telling her 'spare the rod and spoil the child.' And so she reaches for the plumbing supply line. To take it a step further, if she later shares that moment of indecision or difficulty with these mentors and friends, they will tell her she did the right thing by whacking him. Toughen up, Mama, they'll say, and save his soul from hell. And so a mother's heart is hardened. First, by bad teaching, second, by choosing to continue in actions that are against her own instinct, and third, by the relentless ongoing counsel from others telling her to go against herself for the good of her child. She is rewarded by her peer group for following the plan, criticized and shunned if she won't. The mother and her children are all victims of these teachings. This is not the story of all Pearl (or Ezzo) followers, nor the story of all churches where such teachings are embraced. But it certainly happens. It happened to me and to many others of my actual acquaintance. Speaking to Christians here, who may have begun to doubt their own choices in mentors and teachers: The only way to begin hearing oneself again, or the voice of the Holy Spirit, is to cut one's family away from these people. Shut off the voices, throw away the books, and begin to grow in the wisdom and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Read and re-read the Sermon on the Mount and realize that the sheep will recognize the voice of the Good Shepherd. As you pore over those scriptures, it will become beautifully and abundantly clear that the voice of the Good Shepherd sounds nothing like the voices of Michael Pearl or Gary Ezzo. After you have become steeped in the words of Jesus, begin to study the Bible for God's own references to mothers. The Old and New Testaments are full of beautiful imagery: God sees mothers of infants as ever patient, loving, gentle, and protecting of their little ones. You will not be able to see biblical motherhood in the same light again. God's mothers, as portrayed by the imagery and symbolism of Holy Scripture, do not carry plumbing supply line. You can be delivered from a cycle of abuse. You can go back to being who you were before you heard of the Pearls.

I'll find a link for you later when I have more time, Sis, but this has been in the pipeline awhile.

Whole foods, from scratch, only, ever, and always. That is our fate. We have to get it into our hands that a GF label means nothing. I'm angry, too.

I remember one day when an extended family member was over with her large brood, and my (then) toddler was fussing and refusing to take his nap. This is what happened in that horrible moment: I looked at my little one and said, "Do I need to get the spoon?" And all my little relatives thought I meant that I was going to spank him! Some of them shriveled back with wide eyes, but the oldest ran to get a spoon for me to spank the baby. That was familiar, you see. I felt my heart break that they all thought I was going to strike him with a kitchen utensil the way they were struck in similar circumstances. But I was offering comfort, not punishment! I could still just cry out about this. I knew the family was into No Greater Joy at the time, but I forgot that the children might be alarmed by such a phrase as, "Do you need me to get the spoon." You see, my little one had a wooden spoon that he liked to sleep with, and that's what I was talking about! I had drawn a funny face on an old wooden spoon with a permanent marker, and tied a handkerchief around it for clothes. (This child was fussy and unique; he never wanted a favorite toy to carry around. He loved for me to take something new and turn it into a new 'friend.') "Spoon Baby" actually amused him for weeks. I even wrote a funny song to sing when we rocked and held "Spoon Baby." Plumbing supply line is for moving water from here to there. Wooden spoons are for stirring oatmeal, or occasionally for turning into toys.

Thank you, but what happened to my capital letters? :tongue_smilie:

Impish, I'm not comparing. I've used formula feeding before, and I don't sit in any judgment on that or think it is 'lesser than.' I was specifically addressing the concept that a mother can do all the 'good mommy' things that impress everybody and undo it by using plumbing supply line on her children. People who use the Pearls' ways always point out that they are 'attachment parents.' I say, so what? Even something as beneficial and precious as breastfeeding becomes an immaterial external if the relationship is so very damaged through these methods we're discussing. Drop the checklist and listen to your heart, mothers.

Changed my mind. I've heard this all before, and there is nothing more to say. Except this: Not all of us are willing to stand by while children are beaten with hardware and cooking implements. I can and I have stopped the abuse when it crops up in my presence. More people should do the same. Either call the police, or wrest the 'rod' from the parent's hand. Enough of this wickedness.

There is no church other than the one in Michael Pearl's head where it is taught that a parent can deliver a child from sin by beating the child. That is not a Christian doctrine. It is a misunderstanding and misapplication of a proverb from the time of Solomon. Jesus Christ paid the price for the sin of the world. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 If people could be delivered from sin by a parenting method, Jesus would have never gone to the cross! God would have just sent a prophet with a wagon full of plumbing supply line, then, and no Savior of mankind would have had to give himself for us all, out of love. For while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Hear that? Daddy doesn't deliver you from sin with his belt or spoon or whip. By that abuse you are not absolved, having paid for your crime! It is by Christ's stripes that we are healed, not by a baby's stripes inflicted by her own father. This is part of the deception: Families are flat ignoring the teachings of their own churches, willing to be seduced by the promises of perfect children. They are not measuring Pearl's theology with their own, or that of their church. But Pearl's bad methodology is driven by his bad theology. It matters.

Robin Sampson of Heart of Wisdom, who is so extremely conservative that I never have been quite able to use her materials (and I consider myself to be conservative) wrote an excellent blog post here. At the end she has a long list of others who have spoken out, including the owners of Timberdoodle. They also are very conservative. This is not about believer vs. unbeliever, conservative vs. liberal, or spanking vs. non-spanking. I won't let those paradigms be resurrected, because they are false.

Look at this list of very conservative Christian men, all known in Christian and homeschooling circles, who have spoken out against the Pearls' dangerous, divisive, and heretical teaching: Rob Shearer, publisher of homeschooling materials, father of 11 and director of The Francis Schaeffer Study Center has spoken up right here. Wade Burleson, Baptist pastor in Oklahoma, has spoken out right here. Matt, a pastor/blogger who knows the family (?) or who knows families who know the family: Is Michael Pearl Responsible for a Girl’s Death? Aaron, a blogger who knows the family: “Pearl Still Claims Innocence for Himself and His Followers†Aaron also has several other posts on the issue and was one of the earliest to speak out: Corporal Punishment and Two Kingdoms (talks about the case, his personal connection to the family, and makes some theological observations from his Reformed theology perspective.) “The Devil Who Made Them Do It†(his post when the Pearl connection was uncovered.) “Local DA Provides More Details to the Big City Reporters†and a couple others. Randy Greenwald, pastor of Hope Presbyterian in Bradenton FL, hits one out of the park with: Hermeneutics, Life and Death Dr. Giles Fraser, canon chancellor at St. Paul’s Cathedral, England: Suffer Little Children (a commentary published by The Guardian in 2006) Glenn Chatfield: To Train Up a Child, Follow Up Benediction Blogs On: Michael and Debi Pearls teaching linked to another child abuse death Mark Hegener, Home Education Magazine: Bring Back the Boycott Phillip Winn, Boar’s Head Tavern Group Blog: Abuse vs. Discipline Rey Reynoso, Theologica: To Train Up a Child: An Examination

No. To say that the critics have never read it and are simply against conservative Christians is the argument of a decade ago. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now. There are too many of us conservative Christians speaking out, and this argument cannot stand. Conservative Christians themselves have read the books, watched the DVDs, gone to the seminars, and whipped their own babies until the Holy Spirit snatched the rod from their hand and they came to their senses. Conservative Christians have been snubbed, shunned, and tossed out of yon conservative churches where the Pearls' way has been the godly way. Extended families divided. Churches split. Husbands and wives at odds with each other. Children neglected and beaten. Children murdered. Those evils are the fruit of this ministry. Truth! I am speaking the truth! Sean Paddock and Lydia Schatz lie dead, and the true character of the Pearls is revealed in the news video. It bears witness to their writings and teachings over many years. "If the child has breath to cry, 'huggie!' you are not hitting him hard enough. Obey the Lord." That was the tone of their teaching if not the exact words.

Fuhrman's (Eat to Live) plan is perfect for me. I feed my family whole foods, including meat, fish, fowl, eggs, nuts, seeds, beans, butter, olive oil, vegetables, fruits, cheeses, whole grains, maple syrup, honey.

Time to teach kids how to help put away clean laundry!

That does seem to be our common bond. It transcends an awful lot.

Well, I am a conservative Christian but I am ROFL! Gal must've checked out before we starting posting kilt pics. The atmosphere has become much easier on the irreverent since then. :smilielol5:

'zactly. I was OK with the original 13yo because we really do need to remember that not all posters are from the U.S. It might happen that someone from elsewhere has a very talented child and is doing wonderful things to help her, but hasn't quite grasped the language herself. (Of course, such a parent would probably be utilizing schools instead of homeschooling, but you never know.) But then she mentioned more kids, unrelated to the original kid, etc., etc. Yup.

Wow. Thanks, Negin!

I didn't care for the book, and I don't identify with (or even understand) every blog post, but I adore Ann Voskamp. I read her blog every day, and am reminded to keep reaching for my own version of spiritual growth, emotional peace, and a determination to raise happy and healthy children without being paralyzed by the scars from my own past. Blessings on Ann and her family. I know her book is blessing many, whether or not it had anything to say to me. Her blog, on the other hand, blesses me beautifully and often.

I'm sure that's how it appears, but I was on these very boards in the past when we couldn't really discuss this topic without it devolving into simplistic and foolish camps, each side being so upset about it that discussion was impossible. Pearl's teachings are deliberately divisive, and even have that effect on people not of his religion! If you took a poll, I think you'd find that we are the same people who couldn't talk about the Pearls in the past, finally able to talk about it because the paradigm has been identified correctly: It is not 'atheists versus Christians.' It is 'people who believe in beating children versus people who don't.' That's what the argument always should have been about, but Pearl obfuscated it by wrapping it all up in biblical language and spiritual manipulation. Because of the deaths of two precious children, scales have fallen from people's eyes. Those who are not Christians are conceding that they do know Christians who would never do this thing. Christians are conceding that the Pearls' teachings were never from our Holy Book in the first place. We can talk about it now, because the truth has come to the forefront for all.