My oldest son wants to learn Spanish. I have no more money for curriculum. I would like to list what we have to work with, and maybe someone can tell me how to tie it all together or how to make it work? Please? Or if this isn't a good plan, tell me so we don't waste our time. We have: 1. Mango through our public library. Free. 2. A motivated student. He is very proficient in Grammar and Latin and into his second year of Koine Greek. 3. The means to (probably) afford a dictionary and a grammar reference book from Amazon. 4. Bilingual and Spanish resources by the shelf at the library. 5. (and possibly most important), we have Miguel. He is a friend from TKD school, father of 3 bilingual kids, and a native Spanish speaker. Miguel would properly tutor my son if he had time, but as it is he's very willing to spend 10-15 minutes after TKD to answer questions and chat a bit. He's very well-educated and precise in his teaching. Can this work out? Mango lessons, a few reference books, translating materials, and chats with Miguel? What reference books do I need? Do you know of any cheap ones that include exercises?

:lurk5:

My family of origin had issues of this kind but managed thanks to a very determined mother. We would not have been offended by kindly-meant offers of help. (My mom kept us very clean but was unable to clothe us very well, and people did sometimes notice and help.) The potential rebuff is worth the risk for the good that you might be able to do.

I've been thinking along these lines, too. It is probably 'just' poverty and ignorance, going on my experience living among very, very poor people. Not uncommon. If that's the case, cheerful and informal classes involving more girls than just them (and gift baskets) would be very appropriate and almost certainly well-received. If it is something else, I'd want to find out before proceeding. I thought of the religious angle but I didn't think the family might be struggling with meeting their ethical ideals. Maybe Mom doesn't know that hair can be washed with baking soda and vinegar, or that Tom's of Maine has aluminum-free deodorant and can be found in the grocery store. Crystal deodorant is available everywhere, too. Maybe they've never googled, "homemade deodorant" to find alternative methods. Maybe the girls have environmental allergies and can't afford the particular toiletries that don't cause rashes or whatever. I've BTDT and it is awful. (I certainly didn't abandon hygiene, but I went through horrible and sometimes painful trials of cheaper soaps, shampoos and lotions to find workable stuff I could afford.) Obviously they need help. The question is, what kind of help?

Good idea. It could be presented as a thank-you for being such good helpers at your house.

Is their mother well-groomed? What is the appearance culture of their church? Is unattractiveness seen as a virtue? I love the idea of inviting them for a Spa Day but I would want to make sure that fancy hairstyles and makeup weren't taboo.

I just updated my thoughts on this, beaners: I do see a difference in the education level of the younger generation. I've been seeing it IRL for some time, and I am seeing it here. Studies and test scores bear this out, by the way. The nation has gotten poorer at language and math. That doesn't mean the younger parents are doomed or destined to fail, or that none of them went to good schools! It does mean that Ria and I did have someplace solid to stand in that conversation. Whether it should have been a public discussion could be a matter of debate. Probably not, because it didn't edify or encourage newbies who are doing a fine job in spite of the times. The best and brightest new homeschool educators are going to keep finding their way here. I should be encouraging them instead of lamenting the challenges.

Wow, AVA. (Mind if I call you AVA?) This pretty well sums up my participation in this thread yesterday. We're at Critical Factor around here with the homeschooling and I should have just stayed out of it entirely. I was/am panicked and defensive, and I admit that I'm not as clear-headed as I hope to be by the end of the semester. I'm certainly not as objective as I'd like to be! During years of fair skies and clear sailing I would have probably had the same opinions but expressed them more mildly. I'm not in a condition to express anything mildly right now. I can't apologize for my feelings on this thread. I've never read a more discouraging thread here at WTM, the only place in my life where I can go for support as a classical homeschooler. The analogy is a good one: Don't tell me about people dying of cancer while I'm sitting here waiting for biopsy results. Don't interrupt the marathon runner at mile marker 18 to tell him that most people don't finish marathons at all! Don't tell me about all the failures while I'm giving 110%. To all the newbies: I sincerely apologize. You all are scaring the pants off of me but who cares? Who am I, anyway? You are asking, you are learning, and your story is not yet written. You are in your Teacher Training years and that can be a messy process. It was soooo long ago for me that I've lost some understanding for your stage of life, I guess. I didn't realize that had turned into one of 'those' older women. Yuck. Anyway, I will do my best to help and encourage instead of wondering why you aren't farther along. And you aren't all scaring me. I see you, drexel. I see you, Dialectica. I see you, Mom reading to the two-month-old babies. :lol: And many more. Keep at it. You're doing just fine. I'd imagine it isn't pleasant to watch people down the road from where you are now being basket cases in September, but we're stronger than we seem. Don't worry. The ones scaring me are those who can't be bothered to self-educate about homeschooling and pedagogical theories. Never read TWTM, never read Charlotte Mason or LCC. Taking the day/week/month/year off because homeschooling is hard. Changing curriculum every week without ever fixating on what they even want to accomplish. Not teaching grammar! Ye gods! But that's not everyone and I do apologize for my broad brush yesterday. I think that's all I have to say. Don't look for me anymore on threads like this. I can't take it. I know there are massive problems in some homeschools, and I agree with Aelwydd that they only reflect the society. Still, I believe that homeschooling (and good private schools) are America's last best hope. I do. And I have to keep believing that I am contributing to the future of the nation by the hard work I do with my children every day. They will be leaders. They will be strong. They will be prepared. Why? Because dedicated homeschooling works.

I wasn't clear about that, was I? My butt is on the same fence that yours is on. I'm definitely homeschooling. Texasmama, thanks for being a windchime with me! Thanks Melissel and Carol, too. :grouphug: BBL. I should get in another hour of private tutoring before DH gets home.

(civic board, not message board) "If a person is of two minds he should consider that one has canceled the other out." That's where I am right now. See not-a-blog trainwreck thread for details. LOL I'm having a definite crisis of faith! I've already left conservative religion for a much more liberal perspective, but now I'm starting to doubt homeschooling and that is even more uncomfortable. I'm going through all the stages of separation: I quit evangelizing about homeschooling two years ago. Now I'm keeping quiet about the fact that we even do it when I meet new people IRL. What's next? At the moment, I doubt public schooling much more, so I'll almost certainly press on for lack of other options. (If I had $9000/yr my son would be in an excellent Catholic school 8 miles away, but I just can't come up with that money.) I just have never been so in need of encouragement to keep homeschooling. Since my double minds are canceling each other out I need to avoid the discouragement and warning threads. With a hat tip to Jean in Newcastle for loaning us this expressive phrase, I have to ask if anyone else has splinters in their butt from fence-sitting? What are you telling yourself to get you through the doubting time? What are your options?

Have you read The Well-Trained Mind? In that book you can learn how to teach your children to narrate. You can learn how to choose appropriate books and methods to use in homeschooling.

Decided to work out some of these inner conflicts privately lest I sound even crazier than I feel...

:iagree: Have you read TWTM?

If I get a minute later I'll dig up the thread. Be prepared to require a stiff drink.

It sounds like I'm switching sides in the argument. :glare: I think I am warming up to the idea of conceding that newbies need to hear all this stuff but still holding on to the notion that those of us old enough to be currently hs'ing teens probably slid in under the wire and are probably doing a pretty good job. Would anybody else buy that?

I really think it is a generational thing. American schools used to be better, so we were better prepared to teach our own. Sad, huh? The current crop of children is more in need of alternative educational options than ever, but their own parents were less educated than any of us knew. Here's an example: I used to go at it hammer-and-tongs with Spy Car over 'conceptual' math. Then one magical day I had a brain wave: It was true! There really were homeschoolers who were teaching their children to memorize 2x2=4 without telling them what it meant, and they didn't know how to explain it! I will never, ever get over that realization. That's when I personally knew how bad things had gotten in some public schools. How many of our homeschool teachers (and schoolteachers) themselves learned to read with sight words instead of phonics? How many were taught with programs like Everyday Math? Even if they can use the scripted programs, they'll only be able to read them to their child. That is not effective teaching.

I know, Ria, and my frustration isn't really at you or Joanne, either. I'm sorry for my temper. I do admit that I am seeing some trainwrecks on this forum and IRL. We should expect this, because the homeschool Mommy teachers are younger. They are a new generation and they had even worse educational opportunities in ps than we did. I get that, and I don't know what to do about it. I do find myself typing and then deleting, "Is private school an option?" more this fall than I ever have before. So, in a totally immature and me-centered fashion, I guess I would like to know how to light the fire under the chairs of the new generation while still encouraging me and telling me what a good job I'm doing? Is that too much to ask? LOL

So now we've gone from needing to love :001_wub: Mommy-taught co-ops to needing to go to public school or else the kids will have a helluva time going to college because homeschoolers are such notorious losers. :001_huh: This is nuts. Of course there are homeschoolers who are total losers. Every demographic has its total losers. But I'm not going to send my son to Stupid School down the street where only 19% of boys even graduate (without honors) just because of these horror stories. I'm pretty sure that the skills and knowledge he uses to navigate a Civil Air Patrol Search and Rescue Mission might get him through his first day of college, but I could be wrong. He could go in there like a bumbling doofus and come home crying from the total stress of having to find his classes all by his little self. I'll be sure to update. People, read TWTM and follow it. If you aren't a loser, your homeschooled kid won't be a loser. Take a few days off of these "support" forums if all this negativity is making you fear your homeschooled child will spend his 21st birthday sipping Ripple in an alley instead of making something of himself. I know I'll be taking a few days off. I think my time would be better spent listening to my son's Greek and Latin recitations than listening to these litanies of woe from people who claim to believe in homeschooling.

In my very humble opinion, every student deserves access to an adult who knows what they're doing in math. I am not confident above Algebra I, so I don't teach past that. We use DVD instruction for daily lessons, and my (very qualified) husband goes over the homework with my son in the evening. There's no substitute for one-on-one coaching through problems when the kid just really needs it explained another way, or explained over and over, or given a similar problem to try again...and the coach needs to be able to easily see where the student is going wrong, as well. Math is discipline. The disciple needs a teacher. It doesn't have to be you! But it does have to be someone. If I had it to do over, I would have caught myself up on high school math when my children were babies. I didn't know to do that. I can't do it now, while I'm homeschooling a large family for 9-10 hours per day, cooking, cleaning, being a wife, and being a part of my community. No way. My kids would be short-changed, and that's the opposite of why I'm homeschooling.

I agree that it is not a proper question, which is why I quoted song lyrics that are meaningful to me but that betray nothing about my doctrinal beliefs or anything. I was thinking about this in the shower just now and got the giggles, though. Can you imagine if this question was posted as a poll? What Is Your Spiritual Condition? 1. Saved 2. Not saved. 3. Not saved but not scared. 4. Saved from what? 5. I've found God. 6. I didn't know God was missing. 7. I can't answer this question until we define "spiritual," and "condition." 8. I've been spiritually adrift since I stopped following the Dead. 9. This is not a valid question as it presupposes an intrinsic preoccupation with a personal spiritual status that could only possibly be maintained or evaluated on a metaphysical (or dare I say imaginary) level at best as a matter of concern for the whole human race and not for just those who were indoctrinated as children to care about these things. 10. This is not a valid question as the wording excludes too many groups who do care about their spiritual well-being but can already tell that they wouldn't be having the conversation you want. 11. Wouldn't it be more to the point to ask what I'm doing for the betterment of humanity than to ask such a personal question? 12. Other. I could go on all day. Really, what a question. BTW, my vote in the above imaginary poll is #7. I need definitions first, and also why you want to know.

One-semester Schedule One Year Schedule Two Year Schedule I've found the one year schedule to be just about right for the logic/dialectic level. One lesson takes two weeks.

I googled and found this link for you: 19 Hot Water Bottle Covers & Cozies (free patterns) Some of them could be whipped up in minutes.

What a great thread! My oldest son is an academic whiz kid and a gregarious people-person. Homeschooling him has been a challenging joy. I've never gotten over the feeling I felt the day he was born (11.5 pounds, homebirth), when he was lying on his belly beside me on the bed and fully raised himself up on his arms and smiled and winked at me! It was as if he were saying, "I'm here, and I'm extraordinary. This is gonna be fun!" He is extraordinary, and it has been fun. He talked at 5 months, walked at 8 months, read at 18 months, and just kept going forward. I love his warm and confident smile in his 15th year. He really believes he can do anything he wants, and I can't wait to see what he decides to do with the gift that is his life. However, he is not why I'm grateful for homeschooling today. On my mind right now is my second-born son, who smiled late, rolled over late, and spoke not a word until after his third birthday. He potty-learned at almost 5 and learned to read at 7. He was diagnosed with ADHD and Asperger's Syndrome, but some of these diagnoses were lessened when we learned he has celiac disease. Once on a gluten-free diet, he was able to learn. We've had lots of speed bumps in his homeschooling career! And lots of scary bends in the road as he learns to find his way in a world that doesn't always accept him the way he is accepted at home. He is 13 and now fully caught up to grade level in all subjects. (happy dance!) Unfortunately, puberty is kicking his behind. I'm doing more coaching in social issues than in math these days, and he is sticking very close to me the way he did when he was an unsure little boy. It is OK for him to be a late bloomer. He'll get there. As long as there is a twinkle in those brown eyes and a smile for me when I glance his way, I know he's still alright. Because of homeschooling, these two boys have never been compared academically. NEVER. We keep our homeschooling methods, curriculum, and results pretty secret IRL. #2 has never heard this speech from a schoolteacher: "Oh, you are _____'s brother! How thrilling, another genius in my class!" These two boys are total opposites, but because of homeschooling they are so, so close. They even share a room, Odd Couple-style. LOL The younger is taller than the older, but when they sit side-by-side as they often do, the younger literally leans on the older and you can tell who the leader is. #2 will follow #1 anywhere, and I know I can trust #1 son to look after him. Because of homeschooling, each boy is accepted for who he is today and not for how well he fits in society's neat little boxes. As for the future, #1 son is expected to be President, Ambassador, Theologian, or Astronaut, or he knows we'll love him just as much if he decides to surprise us all and become a truck driver who reads a lot. #2 son is expected to find a career utilizing his amazing talent as an artist, but he knows we will support him all the way if he ever answers that call in the very back of that his brain to be an M.D. Or he might be a TKD instructor, or a gluten-free restaurant owner...he's the quiet, capable kind, the turtle who wins over the hare. In this house, you may be who you are today and zero limits are placed on dreams. I don't think I could have nurtured that atmosphere for my opposite sons without the solitude and security of homeschooling. And I'm so glad I learned this before, because #3 son has ADHD and #4 son is just like his oldest brother. LOL

How far into IA is he? I thought it was too easy, too, but the beginning of the book is deceptive. MM spends time helping kids think conceptually from the start, so our kids who do so automatically just kind of coast through all that. It is still worthwhile, as it affirms their math thinking and reinforces concepts that will be built upon later. In my opinion, keep on with it and don't skip anything as long as he still thinks it is fun. It is great that he enjoys it. He might like to do odds or evens only or vary how many lessons he does in a sitting. You'll know you are on the right track if his casual conversation and play reflect concepts that have been reinforced to him through MM, and he is still noticing patterns and concepts on his own. You'll know you need to move ahead or find another path if he starts balking at the lessons or you notice he isn't 'discovering' numbers and math concepts in his observations and play anymore. Does that make sense?