Question about BSA Venturers program

[Ravin]

I was finally able to do a search on the website for crews near us. All of the ones listed within ten miles are affiliated with churches, most of them LDS. The one that isn't LDS is affiliated with a Missouri Synod Lutheran church. I'm familiar with the denomination because my mom attends one, they are pretty conservative. There's another at a Lutheran church that doesn't have a website that I can find so I don't know which stripe of Lutheran they are.

 

My concern is that my gay pagan kid isn't going to find a good fit with a conservative church-affiliated crew. Should I contact the Council for direction?

 

 

[maize]

The LDS ones are probably all male.

[maize]

Also the LDS church is doing away with its venturing programs JAN 2018.

 

Which may or may not lead to the formation of other programs in the community?

[maize]

Do you have any ties to an organization that might be interested in sponsoring a crew?

[DawnM]

Also the LDS church is doing away with its venturing programs JAN 2018.

 

Which may or may not lead to the formation of other programs in the community?

 

 

Why?

[DawnM]

Are you sure the troop/pack affiliates with the church?  We met in whatever church would host us, but we were self-chartered.

 

Youngest is now in a troop that meets in an Episcopal church, but is only loosely affiliated.  The church does not have much to do with us, other than sponsorship of a sort.

Edited October 17, 2017 by DawnM

[Sandragood1]

Technically the BSA does not accept atheists in any program. However our experience has been that there are Crews that ignore that. They would certainly by fine with pagan kids. The one I know of is sponsored by a Methodist church.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sandragood1

[prairiewindmomma]

Why?

 

I'm LDS, and on our Venturing crew committee.  The decision was made by the leaders of the church, and affects all LDS crews + teams.  The reasons are multi-faceted, but essentially, here's the background so that the issue is properly framed:  LDS churches have their children and youth organized into two organizations.  Children belong to "Primary" from ages 3-11, and then either "Young Men" or "Young Women" from 12-18.  At the age of 8, children can choose to participate in weekday activities (typically one evening a week). These are separated by gender. The boys typically go to cub scouts, the girls typically participate in something called "Activity Day Girls".  At 11, the boys transition into boy scouts. At 12, they also join young men, and the girls join young women. Most congregations have somewhat limited activity funding because these programs are provided at no cost to families (outside of boy scout uniform, book, and possibly 1 camp a year). Because scouting is so expensive (our last court of honor had nearly $200 in badges awarded), funding between the female and male programs can sometimes be quite skewed. The quality of the programs is also not necessarily equal. Because all of this is volunteer provided by fellow church members, and because emotions of parents can run high, there can be rivalry, iykwim.

 

Anyway, now that you have that context, here's what *I* think is partially behind the decision:

1. The rest of the church worldwide (Europe, Asia, Central & South America, Africa) uses only the Faith in God/Duty to God program (the religious program) and chooses activities outside of formal scouting for its weekday activities. This both provides a stronger tie to religious values and it greatly reduces the cost of activities.  Leaving scouting equalizes funding (more) between congregations worldwide.

2. Leaving scouting also equalizes funding between male and female organizations in primary and youth programs.

3. Scouting within LDS troops is often anemic--there was never enough funding to really go out and venture as venture crews ought to do. Activities were often limited to 90 minutes one weekday night, and travel outside of the local area is strongly discouraged due to funding issues.

4. LGBTQ issues have been incredibly divisive within the church in the last 5 years.  Stepping away from BSA's changing policies avoids adding fuel to the fire.  Google gay teen suicides in Utah if you want a sobering look at the real struggle a lot of youth are facing in trying to figure out how to fit into a church that condemns same sex marriage.

[prairiewindmomma]

As far as to how to find a Crew, Ravin, I'd talk to the Council she fits into.  The number should be on the website--the registrar is probably the most helpful person to find.

 

I'd still love to find a non-religious all-girl crew when the time is right for my older daughter. :)

[Alessandra]

I'm LDS, and on our Venturing crew committee. The decision was made by the leaders of the church, and affects all LDS crews + teams. The reasons are multi-faceted, but essentially, here's the background so that the issue is properly framed: LDS churches have their children and youth organized into two organizations. Children belong to "Primary" from ages 3-11, and then either "Young Men" or "Young Women" from 12-18. At the age of 8, children can choose to participate in weekday activities (typically one evening a week). These are separated by gender. The boys typically go to cub scouts, the girls typically participate in something called "Activity Day Girls". At 11, the boys transition into boy scouts. At 12, they also join young men, and the girls join young women. Most congregations have somewhat limited activity funding because these programs are provided at no cost to families (outside of boy scout uniform, book, and possibly 1 camp a year). Because scouting is so expensive (our last court of honor had nearly $200 in badges awarded), funding between the female and male programs can sometimes be quite skewed. The quality of the programs is also not necessarily equal. Because all of this is volunteer provided by fellow church members, and because emotions of parents can run high, there can be rivalry, iykwim.

 

Anyway, now that you have that context, here's what *I* think is partially behind the decision:

1. The rest of the church worldwide (Europe, Asia, Central & South America, Africa) uses only the Faith in God/Duty to God program (the religious program) and chooses activities outside of formal scouting for its weekday activities. This both provides a stronger tie to religious values and it greatly reduces the cost of activities. Leaving scouting equalizes funding (more) between congregations worldwide.

2. Leaving scouting also equalizes funding between male and female organizations in primary and youth programs.

3. Scouting within LDS troops is often anemic--there was never enough funding to really go out and venture as venture crews ought to do. Activities were often limited to 90 minutes one weekday night, and travel outside of the local area is strongly discouraged due to funding issues.

4. LGBTQ issues have been incredibly divisive within the church in the last 5 years. Stepping away from BSA's changing policies avoids adding fuel to the fire. Google gay teen suicides in Utah if you want a sobering look at the real struggle a lot of youth are facing in trying to figure out how to fit into a church that condemns same sex marriage.

Thank you for taking the time to write this. Very interesting to learn all the details.

[Alessandra]

Technically the BSA does not accept atheists in any program. However our experience has been that there are Crews that ignore that. They would certainly by fine with pagan kids. The one I know of is sponsored by a Methodist church.

Our crew ignores religious affiliation completely.

[Loowit]

I am not sure if this will help or not.  We are charted to a Lutheran church that is part of a small conservative synod.  We are very open to all youth in our pack, troop, and crew.  We don't do a lot with our chartered organization.  The one thing that they request is that we have a presence at Scout Sunday once a year, and we always tell our youth that they are welcome to attend our chartered org thing but it is not required.

 

My DD is the president of our crew and would be very welcoming to your child as would the rest of the crew members.  We do meet at the church, but all of the religious requirements are done on their own with their own family.  The church is just a convenient place to meet.  However, the part that would likely be a turn off for you is that since our chartered org is a conservative church they have opted to not allow LGBT leaders which the BSA allows because our chartered org is religious.  You would need to speak directly with the crew to really get a feel for their openness.  Many of the crews IME are very open and accepting, but you don't know until you try.

[prairiewindmomma]

Thank you for taking the time to write this. Very interesting to learn all the details.

 

I should clarify.  For now, the church is still sponsoring cub scout troops. Boys 11-13 will still be enrolled in boy scouts and participate in weekday activities tied to scouting, and boys 14-17 who are trying to reach Eagle will still also be enrolled (but will not have closely tied weekday activities).  

 

I, personally, believe that this is part of a transitional plan. I would not be shocked if the LDS church formally parts ways with BSA altogether in the next 5-10-15 years.  There have long been close ties with BSA that the LDS church takes pride in, but as generational change comes to leadership, I believe there will be more openness in just doing the Faith in God/Duty to God programs as the rest of the church outside of North America does.

[Soror]

Our experience w/ LDS Scouting (around here) is that they are doing their own thing, it is just for LDS and they follow their own rules.

 

I've not looked a ton into Venturing Crews but I know that in my small town we have one affiliated with a dive shop. 

[Ravin]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll give a call to the Council, and reach out to the nearest Lutheran church-affiliated crew.

 

I'm hoping to hear soon from a pack I reached out to that's affiliated with an elementary school (not the one DS attends, but the closest one) for DS. There wasn't one at his school, unfortunately. If I don't hear soon I may get a hold of a friend who I'm pretty sure is involved with his sons' scouting activities locally for guidance.

 

 

[Alessandra]

I should clarify. For now, the church is still sponsoring cub scout troops. Boys 11-13 will still be enrolled in boy scouts and participate in weekday activities tied to scouting, and boys 14-17 who are trying to reach Eagle will still also be enrolled (but will not have closely tied weekday activities).

 

I, personally, believe that this is part of a transitional plan. I would not be shocked if the LDS church formally parts ways with BSA altogether in the next 5-10-15 years. There have long been close ties with BSA that the LDS church takes pride in, but as generational change comes to leadership, I believe there will be more openness in just doing the Faith in God/Duty to God programs as the rest of the church outside of North America does.

There does seem to be an increasing divide between LDS and more socially liberal troops. I know that the leader application now requires a signed faith statement. People told me that was a concession to LDS in exchange for more liberal policies on orientation. I know there is also a vast middle ground, but that is not in the news much....