Jean in Newcastle Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Which is correct? I don't think I need CPR or I don't think that I need CPR. And why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 ITA with Kinsa. People under-use "that," IMHO. Makes me crazy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 OK - that goes with my guess. I was wondering if I was overusing "that" since so many others don't seem to use it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 (edited) In many situations, it is grammatically correct to omit "that": http://www.englishgrammar.org/omission That can be left out after common reporting verbs like said, thought and suggested. or more detail p.67 here: https://books.google.com/books?id=6jQ3AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=omission+of+that+reporting+verb&source=bl&ots=ZewhQtX9Ki&sig=spepbY8LTy7e-hQRtue_RwkeVuw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW-YvU3LHJAhUIaT4KHR1QBWQQ6AEIRTAG#v=onepage&q=omission%20of%20that%20reporting%20verb&f=false Edited November 27, 2015 by regentrude 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 In many situations, it is grammatically correct to omit "that": http://www.englishgrammar.org/omission or more detail p.67 here: https://books.google.com/books?id=6jQ3AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=omission+of+that+reporting+verb&source=bl&ots=ZewhQtX9Ki&sig=spepbY8LTy7e-hQRtue_RwkeVuw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW-YvU3LHJAhUIaT4KHR1QBWQQ6AEIRTAG#v=onepage&q=omission%20of%20that%20reporting%20verb&f=false So is it necessary in my example after the word "think" (since that is a form of the word "thought")? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 So is it necessary in my example after the word "think" (since that is a form of the word "thought")? No, it is not necessary. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I am a book editor and I teach writing. I actually forbid my students to use the words very, just, that, and really. They are sooooooo overused. (Vehement disagreement with Ellie on this one.) In your example, I would remove the word "that." 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutingmom Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 And I feel that removing 'that' in the examples sounds incorrect to my ear.... Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 In many situations, it is grammatically correct to omit "that": http://www.englishgrammar.org/omission or more detail p.67 here: https://books.google.com/books?id=6jQ3AgAAQBAJ&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68&dq=omission+of+that+reporting+verb&source=bl&ots=ZewhQtX9Ki&sig=spepbY8LTy7e-hQRtue_RwkeVuw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW-YvU3LHJAhUIaT4KHR1QBWQQ6AEIRTAG#v=onepage&q=omission%20of%20that%20reporting%20verb&f=false But your second source says that, because the rules are difficult, it's mostly better to include 'that'. So it can be omitted in some circumstances, but if in doubt - put it in. I almost always use 'that' - but maybe that's British. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 ITA with Kinsa. People under-use "that," IMHO. Makes me crazy. Wah! You're messing with me! My English teacher always told me off for over-using "that." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 And I feel that removing 'that' in the examples sounds incorrect to my ear.... Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk It sounds incorrect because you use the word so often. You hear it missing when it's not there. My students often resist removing this word because using it is so habitual. By the end of the first semester of teaching them to avoid that, most have acclimated and adjusted. It no longer sounds weird to them. It is appropriate to use that in many situations, but often it is better to leave it out. As I mentioned in my post, it's soooooooo overused. I have worked for numerous publishing companies, and the overuse of that and some others (very, just, really, among others) is common knowledge in those settings (and joked about and sighed over). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Wah! You're messing with me! My English teacher always told me off for over-using "that." Your English teacher was correct. Was she also a supporter of the Oxford comma? :coolgleamA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaLisa Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 ITA with Kinsa. People under-use "that," IMHO. Makes me crazy. I think it's a style preference and correct either way. In journalism school, it was a bright-line rule to cut out any extra "that" b/c we were to slice and dice anything extra. So my go-to is to write it without, but I'll add it back in now and then so when my writing feels too bare bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Your English teacher was correct. Was she also a supporter of the Oxford comma? :coolgleamA: Lol, I wouldn't know. She'd never heard of 'A Christmas Carol' so I'm glad to hear she got something right. *I* like the Oxford comma and I wouldn't have put "that" in the OP's example. For what my opinion, as a mere student of pleasing English teachers, is worth. :D Edited November 28, 2015 by Rosie_0801 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 Sometimes I have two thats in a row. And it bothers me no end. "I told him that that defibrillator was broken." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 It sounds incorrect because you use the word so often. You hear it missing when it's not there. My students often resist removing this word because using it is so habitual. By the end of the first semester of teaching them to avoid that, most have acclimated and adjusted. It no longer sounds weird to them. It is appropriate to use that in many situations, but often it is better to leave it out. As I mentioned in my post, it's soooooooo overused. I have worked for numerous publishing companies, and the overuse of that and some others (very, just, really, among others) is common knowledge in those settings (and joked about and sighed over). I think of 'that' as being different from the others you mentioned: 'very', 'just' and 'really' are add-ins to intensify, and are often not necessary. 'That' has a specific grammatical use. Now, I'm quite happy that grammar changes, and we don't have to hold onto the old forms. But a gradual reduction of 'that' is different from the lazy over-use of 'very', 'just' and 'really'. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael12 Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I look forward to the revised, edited versions of these children's literature favorites: The Hungry Caterpillar by Eric Carle The Busy Spider also by Eric Carle When We Were Young by A. A. Milne When Sophie Gets Angry -- Angry by Molly Bang The Last of the Great Whangdoodles by Julie Andrews Alexander and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Bad Day by Judith Viorst So Stories by Rudyard Kipling also those popular hits: The Way You Are by Billy Joel The Thought of You by Ray Noble and the poetry classic by e. e. cummings [in -] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I am a book editor and I teach writing. I actually forbid my students to use the words very, just, that, and really. They are sooooooo overused. (Vehement disagreement with Ellie on this one.) In your example, I would remove the word "that." :iagree: As a writer, I've always been taught to only use "that" if the sentence is nonsensical without it. Of course, I'm horrible at this when it comes to internet forums. I'm sure my posts here are littered with all kinds of superfluous words. ;) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 I disagree that it's overused. I think it's a style issue. I'm not a fan of "that" because of the ensuing double-thats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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