testing for dys qualifying *updated qualifying info in post 96*

[Crimson Wife]

DP

[mathnerd]

Regarding the portfolio: is DYS looking for a certain number of work samples? And is it OK if they are all in one area (e.g. math) or should the sample be in a few subjects? TIA!

ETA: [from the DYS website: Please submit four academic work samples clearly demonstrating the applicant’s advanced abilities in areas such as math, writing, reading, science or social studies working two to three grade levels above age peer]

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Do most people just send four? Would it be ill-advised to send more?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Regarding the portfolio: is DYS looking for a certain number of work samples? And is it OK if they are all in one area (e.g. math) or should the sample be in a few subjects? TIA!

ETA: [from the DYS website: Please submit four academic work samples clearly demonstrating the applicant’s advanced abilities in areas such as math, writing, reading, science or social studies working two to three grade levels above age peer]

I am wondering the same thing. Only dd's would be science heavy, with just a little math in the notes, but only as part of the science. After writing that, I am starting to realize how absurd that sounds... I'm thinking math as part of science is perfectly acceptable...;)

 

I keep putting this off...ugh...are people often turned down if the scores are there, but the portfolio isn't up to par?

 

This board is a bad influence... Peer pressure! ;)

[Runningmom80]

I've been putting off the portfolio too.  My DS doesn't have a lot of written work yet besides math, which is is about 2 years ahead.  Thanks to everyone that contributed to the thread, it feels a lot less daunting now, and gives me some good ideas as to what to submit.

[Dmmetler]

I sent way over 4 samples, in several areas. I'd read enough people on GHF who said they'd either been asked for more or or for a 2nd test when samples were in one area to overdo it (and that's kind of my personality. In Grad school, one of my classmates once commented "well, you know dmmetler-anything worth doing is worth overdoing". I think she was a little surprised when I agreed with her!

 

I also had 2 people write letters of recommendation instead of one, and included DD's older testing info even though it wasn't the specific tests they wanted since it was in the same score range as her EXPLORE

 

I have never heard of anyone being turned down flat out with qualifying scores, only asked for more information, and there are people who have had it happen both with portfolio and with scores, so I gave them everything I could up front. I figured if they asked for more, at least I'd know I really had to pay for the private eval!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I'm also wondering how much they focus on physical developmental milestones? Nothing significant stands out in my mind. Do people typically mention physical milestones? It seems silly to mention them at dd's age. Are physical milestones critical?

[Dmmetler]

I don't recall anything on physical development. DD has always been on the low side of average (just barely missing qualifying as delayed), and that certainly wasn't an issue for DYS, any more than for BESTS or CTY.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I don't recall anything on physical development. DD has always been on the low side of average (just barely missing qualifying as delayed), and that certainly wasn't an issue for DYS, any more than for BESTS or CTY.

 

In general,  what sorts of things did you put on the application for developmental milestones? I don't know exactly how many words she was speaking at x number of months.

[Arcadia]

I sent four. I figure they could ask for more if the four I submitted were inadequate. For my youngest it end up being 3 from Math and 1 from LA (vocab) so heavily Math bias.
Oldest was 2 Math, 1 science and 1 LA (vocab) so still a bias towards Math/Science
 

. Are physical milestones critical?

The app never ask about physical milestones. My kids pediatrician didn't even ask either at the last wellbaby/child checkup.

My boys are slightly behind in gross motor skills. So I guess not.

For developmental milestone, I focus on my kids strength in verbal/speech and reading as toddlers. Both of mine talk and read early. They both however stand and walk very late.

ETA:
The curriculum used page was tedious to fill up but after filling up the application for math circle last year for my oldest, I did a compilation just in case another app needs it. It probably shows how asynchronous they are.
Their music book is at early beginners level, German books at late beginners level :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

The app never ask about physical milestones. My kids pediatrician didn't even ask either at the last wellbaby/child checkup.

 

My boys are slightly behind in gross motor skills. So I guess not.

 

The app asked for developmental milestones. What sorts of things did you include? It's the first question on the application.

 

[Arcadia]

The app asked for developmental milestones. What sorts of things did you include? It's the first question on the application.

I gave a very short answer to that. I put in when they started talking, when they started reading. That they self taught reading. That they could multiply before preschool self taught.

 

I think it was the last question that was more emotional. The how do I hope DYS can help.

I mentioned how early my kids had to hit the adult section, running out of books to read. Hard to find tutors in their area of interest (string theory, black holes, dark matter). Staying in Silicon Valley yet feeling like you have run out of financial affordable resources for your kids does convey how badly we as parents feel a need for help.

 

ETA:

I didn't say how many words either because I didn't count. We speak a few languages and kids just pick up our speech as babies (especially ranting words :lol: ).

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks! I am probably way over thinking this whole process and making it much more complicated than it needs to be. :chillpill:  ;) 

 

 

[quark]

They used to be a wiki run by a parent that answered many of these questions. Unfortunately, it seems to have been taken down.

 

Our experience might be a little old and I am not sure if the questions match up to the current application or not. From what I have on file (did you already do this Arcadia? I read the rest of this thread too late to see your earlier response...apologies for repetition):

 

1. Development milestones: alertness as newborn, verbal attempts, then approximate month-ages like (from about 3 months onwards, from about 9 months onwards, from about 12 months onwards) and listing some milestones corresponding to those months (I did not cross reference anything with milestones books but I did have a small notebook for DS first's year where I wrote down some of the things he did). But I did not have anything EXACT like X happened at 6 months 4 days old lol. I didn't mention any physical milestones. I did mention somewhere that DS's physical milestones were delayed (I have this huge need to be exact and truthful about these things).

 

2. Incident that demonstrates ability to learn and process complex info rapidly: I described a mathematical thing DS developed at kindy age (a code). This could be the part where you can mention the kinds of questions kids like to ask, or when they talk about planets and black holes after watching a documentary, or create reasonably intricate drawings as an elementary aged kiddo in response to literature, etc.

 

3. Describe incident to demo need to explore subjects in depth: I talked about kiddo's interest in diseases and how it turned into an obsession and what we did to feed it. You could mention incidents like needing tutors/ expert mentors in the field, books or online classes at higher level, interest in competitions etc. In our case, we just bought him more books.

 

4. In what areas does child exhibit prod. talent? Now this is probably where you have a hint on what to include for the portfolio. So if your child is very into only math for e.g. you might want to have maybe 3-4 samples in that area and 1-2 (as available) in another area. If possible you want to choose strong indications of that one area of talent. I think they will understand if you don't have samples in all areas or if your kid is not well rounded. I don't think they expect kids to be so equally rounded in everything. Mine definitely isn't.

 

5. What is currently being done to develop these talents?

I mentioned homeschooling with very eclectic materials and activities (google, types of books, science toys, origami, etc.) and we had just found the math tutor at the time (DS was 8 when we applied).

 

6. What is your role in assisting?

I described division of labor -- DH's subjects and mine and my role as curriculum and class researcher.

 

7. Most challenging aspects of parenting:

I listed the constant need to research, social challenges and his swift, sudden leaps in understanding.

 

8. How do you see YS assisting you?

I hoped for access to mentors (which till now hasn't happened), like-minded friends (has happened) and opportunities for access to interesting information/ access to resources (they do some of this and you can learn a lot from the e-lists).

 

I am a bit OCD about truthfulness and didn't like the small space allotted for each question in the application so I also attached a 5-page word doc with more info on each of the 8 areas (basically expanding on what I had mentioned in bullet lists on the form). I rambled a lot but I wanted them to have all the facts that I thought important. I don't think this is necessary at all and don't even know if they read it. Mentioning this here as an option for those who feel the same about limited space in the form (when we applied it was a written form).

 

We had two letters of rec: math tutor and piano teacher.

 

Achievement: copy of Explore scores.

 

Portfolio:

1. CD with video of a presentation DS had given to our homeschool group on a psychology topic -- to show interest, verbal maturity and ability to field questions (nothing overly mature but mature enough for a young 8yo I guess).

2. A sample of math homework with the tutor

3. Some doodles with ideas for games, a science experiment that he thought would go BOOM, some codes/ciphers he likes to come up with, a list of words he was "collecting" because they had an interesting pattern.

4. Pages from his notebook with some math doodles (maze he was trying to draw, shapes he likes to draw, and lists of numbers and lists of alphabets because he was trying to find some pattern or something)

5. A list of books read in the last year

 

HTH someone!

 

ETA: just found this in the binder -- I had also included a few sample pages from the learning journal I had to present to my homeschool charter school every month. In it I had listed titles of resources used and what the study entailed (very much like a course description) -- these were snapshots of February and March of his third grade spring semester in our homeschool (we applied in April).

[Woodland Mist Academy]

 

I am a bit OCD about truthfulness and didn't like the small space allotted for each question in the application so I also attached a 5-page word doc with more info on each of the 8 areas (basically expanding on what I had mentioned in bullet lists on the form). I rambled a lot but I wanted them to have all the facts that I thought important. I don't think this is necessary at all and don't even know if they read it. Mentioning this here as an option for those who feel the same about limited space in the form (when we applied it was a written form).

 

 

:lol:   You sound just like me!!! :smilielol5:

[FairProspects]

I am wondering the same thing. Only dd's would be science heavy, with just a little math in the notes, but only as part of the science. After writing that, I am starting to realize how absurd that sounds... I'm thinking math as part of science is perfectly acceptable... ;)

 

I keep putting this off...ugh...are people often turned down if the scores are there, but the portfolio isn't up to par?

 

This board is a bad influence... Peer pressure! ;)

 

I don't think so, but I do know the reverse is true, which makes it very hard for 2E kids sometimes if they don't test well. If the testing has been done, the psychologist or neuropsychologist has to send all scores even if the portfolio work would be up to par, which sometimes ends up with kids testing and re-testing (at least for 2Es trying to get the achievement scores to match the ability scores).

[quark]

The impression I have received over the years (now on our 4th year in the program) from listening in on e-lists, is that they try to be as accepting as possible and will ask for more info rather than say no outright.

 

WMA, from the questions you have asked on the Hive, it sounds to me like you should have enough for the portfolio. Don't overthink it woman! :D

But I understand...I totally did too. I felt like I needed to qualify every single thing. This, I believe, is called imposter syndrome and can be very, very strong and compelling.

 

I was preparing myself to be rejected but since we had test scores anyway about 2 weeks AFTER we applied (therefore, 2 weeks BEFORE we heard back), I felt validated enough and don't think I would have changed anything else e.g. accelerating kiddo.

 

I agree about the challenge for 2e kids and kids who don't test well in general...if you look at the qualifying scores, they are asking for scores in just one area of the test and that tells me they are being understanding of this. But I know how even that can be challenging for 2e kids (many of DS's friends are 2e).

[Arcadia]

I am probably way over thinking this whole process and making it much more complicated than it needs to be. :chillpill: ;)

I did only the minimum.

- 4 samples

- one teacher's recommendation

- WISC-IV scores

 

I'm going shopping at RadioShack. Make electronics kits at 50% off. :) (ETA: Some local RadioShack stores closing so we bought both kit 1 & 2 at 60% off for a very happy 9 year old)

 

Let me know if you have any questions on applying since we just did that in end March. Received reply a few days ago.

 

ETA:

For the 8 questions for parents to answer, I gave very short answers but that's my typical writing style. Besides I was doing for my two boys so I just wanted to get it over with.  The app was totally online.

[4ofus]

Nominator???? I was just looking right now at DYS & it mentions a nominator. Is that what y'all are talking about letters of recommendation? Or is that something separate? I just didn't see any letter recommendations. I saw a nominator requirement. Hm. I should stop babbling & go read more closely.

[quark]

You can call them to ask what exactly they mean.

 

When we applied, nominator was in addition to letters of rec if I recall correctly. I mentioned the name of a friend whose kid was a YS. She was the one who suggested we apply.

[Arcadia]

Nominator???? I was just looking right now at DYS & it mentions a nominator.

 

You have to nominate a teacher/instructor who would receive an Internet/online link in his/her email to fill out the recommendation for your child. I don't know what was asked on that link. I asked my kids science teacher to be the one filling the nomination/recommendation.

 

This portion reminds me of the description of college app on the high school boards.

[4ofus]

Okay,

 

It's starting to come together.

 

I can do this :).

 

I think.

[Dmmetler]

DYS was one of the things Belin-Blank recommended after DD took the EXPLORE-it was part of their standard computer done "if your child scores X we recommend Y" PDF, so I used them.

 

It does sound like they've changed the application, though. When I applied, only parts were online, and there was a lot of room for flexibility. The recommendations forms were actual, physical forms that were filled out and then faxed or mailed in.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

It does sound like they've changed the application, though. When I applied, only parts were online, and there was a lot of room for flexibility. The recommendations forms were actual, physical forms that were filled out and then faxed or mailed in.

 

Yes, it appears the entire application is online now - even portfolio samples are sent electronically. This is actually a plus for me.

 

[4ofus]

DYS was one of the things Belin-Blank recommended after DD took the EXPLORE-it was part of their standard computer done "if your child scores X we recommend Y" PDF, so I used them.

 

 

I didn't see anything like that through Duke TIP. What a nice prompt!

[Crimson Wife]

I keep putting this off...ugh...are people often turned down if the scores are there, but the portfolio isn't up to par?

 

 

I have heard of people being asked to submit additional samples before getting accepted.

 

The only cases I've heard of rejections despite qualifying scores have been 2E kids. I don't think I would apply for my little one even if she had a qualifying score at some point because DITD would probably reject her. It's not terribly fair but it is their private program so laws protecting those with disabilities would not apply.

[dauphin]

I didn't see anything like that through Duke TIP. What a nice prompt!

Me either! *contemplates a switch*

[4ofus]

So, I registered as a user yesterday & started the application. I tried to go back in today & finish it & I can't gain access. What I'm putting for my username is obviously wrong b/c it doesn't recognize it. I didn't write down the username I picked, but I did write down the password. Go Figure. The system will help me recover a pw, but not a un. 

 

So right out of the gate I had to email DYS & ask for help getting back into the account. I am making a GREAT impression.

 

I hope they don't hold me against him :/.

 

It feels like Monday.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I wonder if there is a glitch in the system? The same thing happened to me!

(I had kept record of both username and password, yet I still couldn't get in!)

 

ETA: We eventually created a new account and everything worked.

[Arcadia]

So right out of the gate I had to email DYS & ask for help getting back into the account.

Don't worry. I had to ask for help too as I wasn't sure what would be accepted as evidence of PR. My oldest is not a citizen.

 

I would suspect the login problem is a technical glitch though. It is still early in Reno so you might have to wait a while for a reply.

 

ETA:

I tried but can't get in either.

[quark]

There's something about applying in spring. Maybe because more people apply after they receive Explore scores? I remember a few people complaining about glitches in April/May on another board a few years in a row. Just keep trying!

[4ofus]

DYS replied to my email & I'm successfully back in :). They were quick! I like them!!

[arliemaria]

I am not certain my son is gifted, but he is definitely a bright student.  His father and aunt were both in gifted programs and his cousins are as well.  If giftedness is genetic there is definitely a gene in the family.  He is still not reading, but I believe that is related to speech. (New speech eval this summer.)  He is definitely working beyond grade level in science.  He will explain to me how capacitors work or how electrons move along a circuit.  He wants to build an electromagnetic motor.  He recently won our local science fair.  His lab notes (drawings of ten different circuits) could go into a portfolio, but is a portfolio enough? Or is testing required?  I see that part of it can include "presenting a project that is at least two to three grade levels above age peers"  I could have him just explain his science fair project showing all the circuits.  I assume his entire project would only be one sample though.  I will need to think about what else would count towards four academic work samples.  If I have him just explain some of his different electrical terms like ampere, battery, capacitor, and or perhaps even intertia.  These are not things normal kindergarteners talk about or is it?

[Crimson Wife]

It is portfolio plus either IQ testing or achievement testing. The achievement test could be an individual one like the Woodcock-Johnson or the Kaufman but it could also be a talent search test like the EXPLORE, ACT, or SAT.

 

Regular standardized test scores like the Iowa or Stanford can be part of the portfolio but the applicant does need to have at least one test from the official list. http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/Article/Davidson_Young_Scholars___Qualification_Criteria_384.aspx

 

I do know some dyslexic kids who are DYS because the applicant only needs to meet the cutoff in one domain. So if the math scores were high enough, not being able to read yet would not be an issue.

[FairProspects]

It is portfolio plus either IQ testing or achievement testing. The achievement test could be an individual one like the Woodcock-Johnson or the Kaufman but it could also be a talent search test like the EXPLORE, ACT, or SAT.

 

Regular standardized test scores like the Iowa or Stanford can be part of the portfolio but the applicant does need to have at least one test from the official list. http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/Article/Davidson_Young_Scholars___Qualification_Criteria_384.aspx

 

I do know some dyslexic kids who are DYS because the applicant only needs to meet the cutoff in one domain. So if the math scores were high enough, not being able to read yet would not be an issue.

 

Just throwing this out there for other 2Es also - be very careful with the achievement tests that you choose in attempting to qualify for programs like dys. I don't know how many have read the recent Dyslexic Advantage blog post, but testing for gifted programs using SAT/ACT without your accommodations can impact your ability to retain or gain approval for those accommodations later in high school. That information will definitely inform how and when we test in the future too.

[Crimson Wife]

Just throwing this out there for other 2Es also - be very careful with the achievement tests that you choose in attempting to qualify for programs like dys. I don't know how many have read the recent Dyslexic Advantage blog post, but testing for gifted programs using SAT/ACT without your accommodations can impact your ability to retain or gain approval for those accommodations later in high school. That information will definitely inform how and when we test in the future too.

 

Good to know. My little one is going to need accommodations in any sort of testing because of the nature of her disabilities but it's definitely something to watch out for.

[Dmmetler]

Wouldn't the accommodations be an option for ACT/SAT, at least? (Not sure on the EXPLORE) if you take it on a regular test date, especially if you register/apply through ACT/SAT rather than through TIPS or CTY or whatever?

 

I do have to say, though-as someone who needs accommodations on standardized tests, I wouldn't count on accommodations to level the playing field in the same way that a good neuropsychologist who can give multiple tests and write a detailed report can be.

 

 

 

 

[arliemaria]

If I were to decide to pursue something like a neuropsychologist, is this something that a normal insurance company would cover?  My son was born with a congenital diaphragmatic hernia.  He had a complete oral aversion and did not eat anything until approx 18 months.  He did not speak much until after 3.  He still has some speech issue, I believe, but they are minor.  He has trouble with the th/f sounds which affects counting.  He definitely knows the numbers, but will not count aloud to 20.  He has known his phonics sounds for a very long time, but becuase he enunciates everything slowly he has trouble blending.  I am wanting to get a new speech evaluation this summer, but perhaps I should just call a neuropsychologist?

[Crimson Wife]

Your insurance may or may not cover neuropsych testing. Our old PPO insurance covered some portion but there was a lot of hoop-jumping involved. First, the pediatric neurologist would need to make the referral. Then, I'd have to take the child for a consultation (covered by insurance with the normal specialist visit co-pay). The NP would write up a testing plan to submit to the insurance company for pre-approval. The insurer would pre-approve or deny each specific test depending on whether it was considered medical or educational in nature. Then we'd go for testing and the cost for any test not specifically pre-approved would be our responsibility.

 

Our current HMO insurance does not cover ANY neuropsych testing even for a child with documented medical disabilities. It stinks because that means we have to pay $$$$ out-of-pocket but I really feel like we need that information. The hearing loss got missed because all the symptoms got chalked up to the autism. I'm concerned that there may be hidden LD's like dyslexia or low working memory or who knows what.

[FairProspects]

Wouldn't the accommodations be an option for ACT/SAT, at least? (Not sure on the EXPLORE) if you take it on a regular test date, especially if you register/apply through ACT/SAT rather than through TIPS or CTY or whatever?

 

I do have to say, though-as someone who needs accommodations on standardized tests, I wouldn't count on accommodations to level the playing field in the same way that a good neuropsychologist who can give multiple tests and write a detailed report can be.

 

You can certainly apply and receive permission for accommodations from the College Board for the SAT or ACT, but the issues I've been reading lately have to do with the logistics of actually getting them administered. Often the accommodations require a 2 day testing period, which means a proctor has to come back for a second day where only one child is tested and many testing sites will not agree to that at all even if you offer to pay a separate proctor fee.

[4ofus]

Ya'll.

 

I spent about 2 hours this morning filling in the portion about materials.

 

Then my session timed out.

 

I'm so frustrated that I don't know when I'll go back and do it again.

 

Grr.

 

I know, copy & paste. I just...forgot. Or something. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

I spent about 2 hours this morning filling in the portion about materials.

 

Then my session timed out.

I think there is a save button for every subject you fill.

I have an app on my phone to scan the ISBN of the books and it auto gives me the MLA citation so that save me some work typing.

It was the parents questions that took me the longest.

 

Is there a Pom Pom emoticon? Cheering you on.

[4ofus]

Thanks for the cheerleading. I haven't even looked at it today. Maybe this weekend. 

[4ofus]

It's been over a month since I last posted, but today I finally submitted ds's DYS application. Yesterday, other ds took the ACT. All of us are ready to call it summer y'all. We're taking a much needed break!

 

Now to just swim, relax, enjoy the weather & try not to obsess. 

 

Thanks for all the encouragement. Whether he's in or not, it has been a positive process just to force me to really evaluate what we're doing & help me to make appropriate next-step choices. I feel good things ahead, regardless of how DYS responds :).

[4ofus]

Anyone on this thread know the ACT cutoff for 6th graders? I've emailed DYS & am awaiting a reply, but thought I'd check all the knowledge here :).

 

My 6th grader who was slightly under the EXPLORE cutoff just received his ACT scores. I think they look promising...crossing fingers.

[4ofus]

Here is part of an email I received today from DYS. I thought you all might be interested that the qualifications are changing a bit. I checked the website & it's reflected there already.

 

"We are currently in the process of updating our websites to reflect changes to our criteria. We anticipate finalizing the changes to the Qualification Criteria by the end of today. One of the changes you will notice is that only one test (IQ or achievement) is now required. The portfolio option will be additional supplemental information that is completely optional. You will also notice we have updated our criteria for certain IQ and achievement tests, including the SAT. Please continue to review the application information on our website and our new Qualification Criteria page for the latest information."

 

 

I have to say, I'm glad I didn't go the IQ testing route this summer. I would be crying in my empty wallet right about now.

[Arcadia]

Anyone on this thread know the ACT cutoff for 6th graders?

Did you get a reply for this? DA is in our shortlist to tour and I think the cutoff would be the same as DYS.

 

You are spared doing the portfolio for your oldest :)

[4ofus]

Sadly, no. He's over on one of the 7th grade scores, & only one off on 3 others. I think I'll just submit & see what happens.

[ebunny]

I have to say, I'm glad I didn't go the IQ testing route this summer. I would be crying in my empty wallet right about now.

 

It's depressing that psychometric testing is so prohibitively expensive, but the bolded just made me :laugh: .

 

Crossing fingers for your DS. Hope he gets in.

[Dmmetler]

DA's qualifying scores are higher on the SAT than DYS. I suspect part of that is that by the time you're looking at DA, you're close to the age range where a lot of people start doing serious test prep, and it's not really an "out of level" test anymore.

 

It's a pretty involved screening process, which kind of makes DYS look like a cakewalk in comparison. I'm guessing that's going to be the case for the other programs that take kids before the usual DE age as well.