Which lit-based history program?

[jer2911mom]

I am looking for a Christian lit-based history program that provides background info., discussion questions, and answers where appropriate for me, schedules real books (not just an anthology) for read-alouds and readers, and provides some kind of scheduled written output (notebooking, written narrations, etc.).  I'd prefer a few projects as well (that aren't overwhelming). I've used HOD and SL.  HOD doesn't provide enough background info. or support/answers for me and SL doesn't provide the scheduled written output (I do like their background info. and notes and questions, though).  I've looked at MFW and it doesn't have the background info., discussion questions, and answers that I'm looking for in regard to the history, read-alouds and readers.  What else should I consider?  Does Beautiful Feet do this?  TOG? Biblioplan?  I feel like what I'm looking for doesn't exist right now.  What would be the closest thing to this?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[Slache]

I've heard of people using TruthQuest as a spine with MFW as a History supplement for projects and such, but I don't know anyone in real life who's done it. That combo seems right up your alley.

[matrips]

Not quite what you are asking for, but I just pencil in on the SL which days/books to do an outline or narration. And they do have dictation scheduled as part of their LA, which is now incorporated into the regular instructors guide. We enjoy the SL books and have never looked into anything else.

[Susie in MS]

lit-based history program that  check

provides background info., check

discussion questions, and check

answers where appropriate for me, check

schedules real books (not just an anthology) for read-alouds and readers, and check

provides some kind of scheduled written output (notebooking, written narrations, etc.).  check

I'd prefer a few projects as well (that aren't overwhelming). check

 

Learning Adventure's A New World of Adventure provides all of what you are looking . It is a year study of Ancient World to Explorers using living books. Every single thing you need, is in the guide except the living books and supplies for recipes, science experiments and crafts. There is a daily narrative for you to read to your child(ren). Discussion and recall questions (plus answers) are provided. Instructions for every activity (not overwhelming) are provided. Writing and grammar are also included. Every subject except math. 

 

Learning Adventures samples and s&s.

[Faithful_Steward]

I think TOG does this, but I am overwhelmed with their website.

 

MOH has the challenge cards, reviews, written output, and projects. I'm not sure if something like Illuminations would help with scheduling readers.

 

I'm mostly just listening in... :lurk5:

[Tenaj]

Maybe something like this would work?  Since you like SL except for the lack of the written output and you like HOD except for the lack of teacher support,  could you combine the two without too much trouble?

 

This year for my highschool jr. who wanted Modern History, I took SL's Core 300 and turned it into a HOD guide.  I used HOD's World History Guide as an outline for the written output and activities.  So I have a basic schedule that on Day 1 he does an oral narration (either summary or detail), on Day 2 I have him answer the questions from the SL guide in written form,  on Day 3 he does a written narration, Day 4 he does all the timeline work from the previous week's assignments and on Friday he answer the questions from the SL guide in written form again.  In that Core, he has a daily history reading from the "spine" plus another book that is either historical fiction or biography.  For the non-spine book, he writes summary sentences each day (as Carrie schedules in the HOD guide) or does an oral narration on that book.  Each day he does the map work assigned by SL for all books.

 

Because I just ran out of time, we are doing the literature portion of SL pretty much as written.

 

Just an idea I had when I read your post.  I was just contemplating this morning that I want the history from HOD  with the literature from TOG.  That would get expensive really fast!

[diaperjoys]

You might want to check out Biblioplan. We're very happy with the resources in combination with flexibility that we see in this program. 

[Saddlemomma]

TOG does all of that.  We use it and love it.

[Guest]

You might want to check out Biblioplan. We're very happy with the resources in combination with flexibility that we see in this program. 

:iagree:  We are just completing year 4. I will start back with Ancients in the fall with my youngest.

[Momto4inSoCal]

We are going with vp sp. Its in sale right now half off. We will do all the scheduled literature books along with it.

[chicagoshannon]

I was also thinking of Veritas Press. We use the self paced but you could also do it with their lesson plans instead.

[jer2911mom]

I've heard of people using TruthQuest as a spine with MFW as a History supplement for projects and such, but I don't know anyone in real life who's done it. That combo seems right up your alley.

 

Thanks, I think I'd have to match things up to do that, and I need open-and-go.  I guess I should have added that to my list. :) HOD and SL are both open-and-go, which is why they have been top contenders for me.

[jer2911mom]

Not quite what you are asking for, but I just pencil in on the SL which days/books to do an outline or narration. And they do have dictation scheduled as part of their LA, which is now incorporated into the regular instructors guide. We enjoy the SL books and have never looked into anything else.

 

Thanks, I've considered doing that.  Or making Fridays a notebooking day for the first three weeks each month, and the last Friday a project day.  I think I'd be okay with that through 8th grade, but then I want more guided output after that, like essay responses, that kind of thing.  I'm not really looking for dictation.  We get that in our spelling program, so we are good there.

 

I think having used HOD, I see the differences in skill building between SL and HOD.  SL doesn't really add in the skill-building like HOD does, where the narrations ramp up over the years (from oral to oral and written, to summary and detailed, that kind of thing), the research increases, there is work with the vocabulary words, the mapwork increases, the drawing skills increase, the notebooking requires more details, and the overall independence increases (I don't want independence in history readings, though, another beef with HOD).  SL seems lacking in that area once you've done HOD, and I just don't know if I'll be able to incorporate it the way I want to see it done without it being scheduled in for me.  I also wish SL provided paper maps.  The markable map gets so crowded toward the end of the year and if you are focused in on one area for most of the year, there is no more room to write and it is frustrating for you and your child.  I like to keep a record of the mapwork, so don't want to erase it to make more room.  I wish SL handled the mapping differently, or provided other options.  I'm sure I could buy a set of maps on CD and figure it out, but I really need open-and-go.  HOD schedules the maps for you.

[jer2911mom]

lit-based history program that  check

provides background info., check

discussion questions, and check

answers where appropriate for me, check

schedules real books (not just an anthology) for read-alouds and readers, and check

provides some kind of scheduled written output (notebooking, written narrations, etc.).  check

I'd prefer a few projects as well (that aren't overwhelming). check

 

Learning Adventure's A New World of Adventure provides all of what you are looking . It is a year study of Ancient World to Explorers using living books. Every single thing you need, is in the guide except the living books and supplies for recipes, science experiments and crafts. There is a daily narrative for you to read to your child(ren). Discussion and recall questions (plus answers) are provided. Instructions for every activity (not overwhelming) are provided. Writing and grammar are also included. Every subject except math. 

 

Learning Adventures samples and s&s.

 

Thank you.  I will look into this again.  I remember looking at it in the past, and can't remember why I didn't choose it.  Is it a Christian program?  Can you use it without the writing and grammar?  Is the writing tied to the history?  I have a separate writing and grammar program I am pleased with.  I also don't need science.  Does it mess up the program to not use the science?

[jer2911mom]

I think TOG does this, but I am overwhelmed with their website.

 

MOH has the challenge cards, reviews, written output, and projects. I'm not sure if something like Illuminations would help with scheduling readers.

 

I'm mostly just listening in... :lurk5:

 

Thanks, I've looked at TOG many times and have recently downloaded a free unit to try, which I haven't used yet.  I'm mostly concerned about whether or not it will be too much of a history focus in later years.  I want to maintain balance.  The upper levels look kind of tedious to wade through.  But maybe once I got into it, it would be exactly what I am looking for.  I'm just not sure.

 

I've considered MOH, and I've looked at Illuminations.  For some reason Illuminations doesn't seem like quite what I am looking for.  I would need something like that to provide the lit to accompany the MOH.

[jer2911mom]

Maybe something like this would work?  Since you like SL except for the lack of the written output and you like HOD except for the lack of teacher support,  could you combine the two without too much trouble?

 

This year for my highschool jr. who wanted Modern History, I took SL's Core 300 and turned it into a HOD guide.  I used HOD's World History Guide as an outline for the written output and activities.  So I have a basic schedule that on Day 1 he does an oral narration (either summary or detail), on Day 2 I have him answer the questions from the SL guide in written form,  on Day 3 he does a written narration, Day 4 he does all the timeline work from the previous week's assignments and on Friday he answer the questions from the SL guide in written form again.  In that Core, he has a daily history reading from the "spine" plus another book that is either historical fiction or biography.  For the non-spine book, he writes summary sentences each day (as Carrie schedules in the HOD guide) or does an oral narration on that book.  Each day he does the map work assigned by SL for all books.

 

Because I just ran out of time, we are doing the literature portion of SL pretty much as written.

 

Just an idea I had when I read your post.  I was just contemplating this morning that I want the history from HOD  with the literature from TOG.  That would get expensive really fast!

 

It's funny you say that, Jan, because I have been doing just that this year with Preparing and Core B.  They both use CHOW, and SL provides the CHOW background info. and notes for me, while HOD provides the written output, skill building, and projects for me all scheduled out.  Doing both is dragging out how long we are taking with Preparing, but I've liked using the two side-by-side.  SL provides the picture books that HOD lacks.  I've considered adding Core C to the rest of Preparing next year.  But then I'm stuck on what to do next.  I'll be off both the SL and HOD cycles at that point as far as getting through all the levels I want to get through.  I've thought about skipping CTC since we've done so much ancients this year, and then we'd be back on track with RTR, but I don't want the history read independently in HOD without me having good background info./notes to follow along.  I just know I won't make time to read those books on the side.  We either need to read it together, or I need to have some notes.  But I think it will be too much reading to do out loud, with all the other work to be done.  I just prefer to discuss history as we read it and not after the fact.  I don't want to just be listening to or reading a narration on it, either.  I want to be able to have a good discussion as we go through the material.  SL helps me better with the discussion aspect as far as the background notes go, but HOD does a better job of keeping things Christ-centered.

 

If I went to SL after finishing Preparing/Core C in 5th, we'd only be on Core D, and there wouldn't be time to do Cores D, E, F, G, and H by the end of 8th grade like I'd like to without doing some combined cores, which I really don't want to do.  By trying to do both, I'm losing ground in both and won't be able to finish either one like I'd like to.

 

That's really interesting to hear how you are handling Core 300.  Thank you so much for sharing how you are making it more HOD-like!  I've thought about having the SL questions be answered in written form, but it seems like too much to do every day.  I really like the idea of doing it twice a week and using the other days for oral and written narrations and timeline work.  That's also a good idea to combine the timeline work into one day so you aren't dragging it out every day.  Doing summary sentences or oral narration for the non-spine book is a great idea, too.  Since the highest guide I've done is Preparing, I'm not as familiar with HOD's written output and activities at the higher levels, so this information is helpful.  Do you do all your mapwork on the markable map, or do you use paper maps?  I commented in a previous reply about how I would prefer to have paper maps with more room to write on.

 

Do you read the Core 300 books, or do you rely on the notes?  I'm assuming your child reads the books independently? Do you add any literature analysis to the SL lit?  I've gotten the impression that there really isn't much analysis/teaching of literary terms and devices in the high school levels?  Are you using the SL LA at all?  Is there analysis in there?

 

I really like this plan overall.  It would probably help if I was more familiar with the upper HOD guides to know what the written output expectations are.  Do you find the SL guides to have too much information, or is it about right?  It looks overwhelming when I look at the samples, but I'm not at that level yet.  Are you able to do all the Core 300 books?  Are you doing Core 300 Bible, too?

 

I've gotten the impression that TOG handles the lit analysis better than HOD, SL, and MFW since it is book-specific from at least UG on (can't remember if it is in LG) and really teaches the literary elements.  I don't like the generic nature of DITHOR or the generic read-aloud questions in HOD, MFW waits and then does Progeny Press guides in 7th and 8th, which isn't really how I want to handle lit, and SL just doesn't really reach the literary elements from what I've read.  But I'm not as sure about TOG history because there isn't really a continuous spine and the number of questions in the upper level discussion seems overwhelming to me.  I'm afraid the emphasis on history may be too much for us (although I don't know, maybe SL would be similar?).  But again, I'm not at that level yet.  I'm not sure TOG provides answers for everything, either.  I think for some things, they expect you to mine the answers from the World Book blurbs, which is a lot of reading for the week.

 

Are you doing Core 300 this way because HOD doesn't have the American History guides written yet?  Would you prefer HOD if it were available for these levels?

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

You might want to check out Biblioplan. We're very happy with the resources in combination with flexibility that we see in this program. 

 

Thanks, does it provide book-specific background info. and questions and answers for the literature?  Is the lit all scheduled out for you?  Does it provide literary analysis?  It seems like they use the Progeny Press guides for that?  I do like the looks of the Cool History books.  I know Biblioplan has been making some good changes over the past few years, and I need to take another look at them.  It seems like every year they are making their products better and better, and I appreciate that.

[jer2911mom]

TOG does all of that.  We use it and love it.

 

Thanks!  Does it provide answers to all the history discussion questions, or do you have to look some of them up in the World Book blurbs?  I thought I had read that on their site somewhere.  What levels have you used?  I'm a little intimidated by the dialectic and rhetoric levels.  It kind of feels like you have to really want a huge history emphasis to use those.  I don't want history and lit to take over our day in high school.

[jer2911mom]

:iagree:  We are just completing year 4. I will start back with Ancients in the fall with my youngest.

 

Thank you!  Can you tell me more about how Biblioplan handles the things I am looking for?  I don't really know how specifically it addresses the literature.  I am looking for book-specific notes, questions, answers, etc., and for it to be scheduled out.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

We are going with vp sp. Its in sale right now half off. We will do all the scheduled literature books along with it.

 

 

I was also thinking of Veritas Press. We use the self paced but you could also do it with their lesson plans instead.

 

Thanks, we have done VP self-paced OTAE some this year.  I find myself letting my kids do it on their own and I'm not sitting there watching it with them to know what they are learning.  Maybe if it was our only history, I'd pay more attention.  I like it, but I think I want to use books instead.  I have never figured out how VP works except for the self-paced courses.  Their catalog and website confuses me.  Do the lesson plans have you reading a history spine and then other literature?  Are there book-specific questions and answers for the history and lit?  Is it all scheduled out for you?  Does it cover literary analysis?  Is there written output and does it include activities?  With the self-paced, the only output is the printouts of the quizzes and tests.  I'm looking for more than that.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[Tenaj]

It's funny you say that, Jan, because I have been doing just that this year with Preparing and Core B.  They both use CHOW, and SL provides the CHOW background info. and notes for me, while HOD provides the written output, skill building, and projects for me all scheduled out.  Doing both is dragging out how long we are taking with Preparing, but I've liked using the two side-by-side.  SL provides the picture books that HOD lacks.  I've considered adding Core C to the rest of Preparing next year.  But then I'm stuck on what to do next.  I'll be off both the SL and HOD cycles at that point as far as getting through all the levels I want to get through.  I've thought about skipping CTC since we've done so much ancients this year, and then we'd be back on track with RTR, but I don't want the history read independently in HOD without me having good background info./notes to follow along.  I just know I won't make time to read those books on the side.  We either need to read it together, or I need to have some notes.  But I think it will be too much reading to do out loud, with all the other work to be done.  I just prefer to discuss history as we read it and not after the fact.  I don't want to just be listening to or reading a narration on it, either.  I want to be able to have a good discussion as we go through the material.  SL helps me better with the discussion aspect as far as the background notes go, but HOD does a better job of keeping things Christ-centered.

 

If I went to SL after finishing Preparing/Core C in 5th, we'd only be on Core D, and there wouldn't be time to do Cores D, E, F, G, and H by the end of 8th grade like I'd like to without doing some combined cores, which I really don't want to do.  By trying to do both, I'm losing ground in both and won't be able to finish either one like I'd like to.

 

That's really interesting to hear how you are handling Core 300.  Thank you so much for sharing how you are making it more HOD-like!  I've thought about having the SL questions be answered in written form, but it seems like too much to do every day.  I really like the idea of doing it twice a week and using the other days for oral and written narrations and timeline work.  That's also a good idea to combine the timeline work into one day so you aren't dragging it out every day.  Doing summary sentences or oral narration for the non-spine book is a great idea, too.  Since the highest guide I've done is Preparing, I'm not as familiar with HOD's written output and activities at the higher levels, so this information is helpful.  Do you do all your mapwork on the markable map, or do you use paper maps?  I commented in a previous reply about how I would prefer to have paper maps with more room to write on.

 

In the higher levels, there are paper maps for the student to use for each of the books.  

 

Do you read the Core 300 books, or do you rely on the notes?  I'm assuming your child reads the books independently? Do you add any literature analysis to the SL lit?  I've gotten the impression that there really isn't much analysis/teaching of literary terms and devices in the high school levels?  Are you using the SL LA at all?  Is there analysis in there?

 

I started out trying to keep up with the reading but just couldn't do it and am relying way too much on the notes.  He does read the books independently and ideally I would read with or ahead of him but with all the younger kids at our house I just couldn't keep up.  I haven't added any lit analysis this year.  The lit analysis is there, it's just woven into the notes on the books and it's not really obvious.  The author of the core does mention literary devises and analysis so I have my son read all the notes.  We're not using the SL LA at all (which is basically just in the writing assignments at that level) because this student really needed to work on writing basics this year so we're doing Help for Highschool from Julie at Bravewriter to really get solid on writing essays this year.

 

I really like this plan overall.  It would probably help if I was more familiar with the upper HOD guides to know what the written output expectations are.  Do you find the SL guides to have too much information, or is it about right?  It looks overwhelming when I look at the samples, but I'm not at that level yet.  Are you able to do all the Core 300 books?  Are you doing Core 300 Bible, too?   

 

I think the information is about right.  It could look overwhelming but all the notes are divided by day.  I've used TOG in the past and that was overwhelming to me because the notes were clumped together by week.  We are doing all the Core 300 books.  He's really loved this year which kind of surprised me but all the reading hasn't been an issue at all and he's really enjoyed all the selections.  We are not doing Core 300 Bible.  He wanted to study a book of the Bible that he'd never really looked at so he's doing a year-long study of Jeremiah.

 

I've gotten the impression that TOG handles the lit analysis better than HOD, SL, and MFW since it is book-specific from at least UG on (can't remember if it is in LG) and really teaches the literary elements.  I don't like the generic nature of DITHOR or the generic read-aloud questions in HOD, MFW waits and then does Progeny Press guides in 7th and 8th, which isn't really how I want to handle lit, and SL just doesn't really reach the literary elements from what I've read.  But I'm not as sure about TOG history because there isn't really a continuous spine and the number of questions in the upper level discussion seems overwhelming to me.  I'm afraid the emphasis on history may be too much for us (although I don't know, maybe SL would be similar?).  But again, I'm not at that level yet.  I'm not sure TOG provides answers for everything, either.  I think for some things, they expect you to mine the answers from the World Book blurbs, which is a lot of reading for the week.

 

From using TOG in the past, I know that of SL, HOD, MFW and TOG, TOG is the strongest in the lit department.  That's why my ideal would be to use HOD for history and TOG for literature.  My olders who used TOG still remember all the lit they read in those years and your beef with TOG history is exactly why we quit using it.  The lack of a history spine in TOG really made it seem disjointed to me.  I'm regretting selling my TOG guides though because I could sure use the lit parts of  them now!  I don't like DITHOR at all because I need to read all the books (and take notes) in order to make it work.  I don't like Progeny Press guides particularly because they have you read the whole book and then spend days (or weeks) doing the worksheets.    

 

Regarding you last point, I may be wrong, but I think I heard somewhere that TOG has remedied the situation with some of the questions not being answered in the books when they did the last revision.  

 

Right now I'm considering adding BJUP reading/lit  the the kids guides for next year to get some of that lit analysis into our day.  It would get the job done but it using portions of books which I don't like.  I've looked into Center-For-Lit and love their approach, but once again, without daily lesson plans I'm not sure it would get done consistently.  

 

Are you doing Core 300 this way because HOD doesn't have the American History guides written yet?  Would you prefer HOD if it were available for these levels?

 

Yes, this whole project started out because my older guy was beyond the HOD guides.  He has never done HOD because he was older when we started using it.  I'm sure that if HOD had been a year ahead of where they are I would have happily purchased the third high school guide and he would be using it but now that I've worked through this SL guide with him, I'm really loving all the book choices and the way this year has gone.  

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

It would be really nice if some of these lit-based curriculum companies would break their particular systems into different components and let us purchase them a la carte.

[Susie in MS]

Thank you.  I will look into this again.  I remember looking at it in the past, and can't remember why I didn't choose it.  Is it a Christian program?  Can you use it without the writing and grammar?  Is the writing tied to the history?  I have a separate writing and grammar program I am pleased with.  I also don't need science.  Does it mess up the program to not use the science?

Yes, it is Christian . 

YOu can leave any part of it out, but yes the writing is tied into either the lit or the history. 

[Saddlemomma]

Thanks!  Does it provide answers to all the history discussion questions, or do you have to look some of them up in the World Book blurbs?  I thought I had read that on their site somewhere.  What levels have you used?  I'm a little intimidated by the dialectic and rhetoric levels.  It kind of feels like you have to really want a huge history emphasis to use those.  I don't want history and lit to take over our day in high school.

 

It provides the "gist" of the answers.  Since the discussion questions are Socratic in nature, they could be answered in different ways and vary in content.  In other words, many times there is no "right" answer.  The "Thinking" questions are just that - they are to get you thinking about possibilities.  Now, the Accountability questions will have answers for you.

 

I've used the Upper Grammar and this is the first year of Dialectic.  Since DD is in 6th this year, we've eased into the discussion questions.  For example, we don't do the history Accountability and Thinking questions at all. Since I like history and want to learn more, we read the history selections together and discuss topics that we find interesting as we come to them.  I consider that Socratic discussion.  We just recently had some fabulous discussions about the Civil War.  I do ask her to do some of the Worldview/Church History discussion questions. 

 

One thing you MUST remember with TOG -- It's a buffet; you don't have to do it all. Yes, it looks overwhelming, but that's because it's chock full so you can pick and choose what you want to focus on.  If you don't want to go in depth in history, just do the core readings and leave out the in-depth reading.  If you don't want to do the Read Aloud -- don't do it or change it up and read the lit book out loud, or substitute, or ditch it altogether.

 

I think the Literature selections and worksheets that go with them are fantastic.  For the most part, DD really enjoys the books.  However, since I know her likes and dislikes, if I know she won't enjoy a scheduled book, I don't make her read it.  I choose a comparable book that I know she'll enjoy and just forget the worksheet, or I'll move on to the next lit choice.

 

An example of the type of literature analysis employed in the Dialectic stage is as follows:  DD has been reading Alice & Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass.  The worksheet she is doing right now is asking her to find examples in the book of assonance, alliteration, personification, simile and a pun.  She also had to determine what type of character Alice was: one, two, or three dimensional and explain her answer with examples.  Then she had to break down two lines of a specific poem in the book denoting the type of meter used, stressed & unstressed syllables, and the feet.  That was just a portion of the worksheet.  Thankfully, we've been doing Figuratively Speaking as well.

 

If you don't want your homeschool to focus on history or lit, TOG, SL, and HOD may not be the programs for you. We are a history-centered homeschool because my DD loves history.  That is why we chose TOG. Some students hate history and have other interests.  In that case, TOG would not be the curriculum for them.  It just depends on what your student is passionate about.  I say this gently: you might want to consider that it may be that you really don't want a lit-based history program because you've indicated you don't want to focus in those two areas, but that is what the types of programs you mention are going to focus on.

[jer2911mom]

It would be really nice if some of these lit-based curriculum companies would break their particular systems into different components and let us purchase them a la carte.

 

It won't let me select your entire reply, Jan, but thank you so much for the info.!  When do the paper maps start?  I didn't realize SL switched over to those.  That is great news!  Also, that's good to hear that the SL notes mention literary analysis and devices.  Are the LA writing assignments tied to the history at all?  The lit?  Do you think they would be worth doing?

 

That's good to know that you think the SL notes by day are less overwhelming than the TOG notes clumped by week.  I think because I am so visual, that's why TOG is so overwhelming to me.  It's helpful to know TOG is strongest in the lit department and also to know that the history seems disjointed to you without the spine.   You know, I'm remembering now that I recently got an email from TOG and it seems like they have been working on a new literature product that can be purchased separately, come to think of it!  I hope I'm not dreaming this, and I will see if I can find it or a link on their website.  If this is true, it would be a great way to get lit covered with real books, real help, and in a manageable way.  I've consider BJU reading and lit as well, but I don't like the anthology approach and would still have to schedule real books and find resources to cover those.  Thanks for your thoughts on the PP guides.  I looked at those at convention and just wasn't inspired.

 

So having used SL Core 300 now, would you use it again with your younger kids, or do you think you will stick with HOD through high school?  If TOG offered this lit product that I might just be dreaming up, lol, would you prefer HOD + TOG or SL + TOG?  I'm concerned about the lack of teacher support in the HOD guides, especially once the kids are working so independently.  Are you reading the HOD books?  Do you have other kids in the independent HOD levels?  How are you making that work?  Having used SL and its notes now, do you find that more helpful, or do you still prefer HOD for its other features, even without the teacher notes?

 

Thanks, it's really helpful that you've used these different products and can share your experience!

 

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

Yes, it is Christian . 

YOu can leave any part of it out, but yes the writing is tied into either the lit or the history. 

 

Thank you!  I peeked at it briefly and the users seem to really love it.  I am happy with our current LA and science, so I'm wondering if it would be worth it just for the history and lit.  I'm happy with our bible, too, so I'm not sure if I'd use it or not.

[jer2911mom]

It provides the "gist" of the answers.  Since the discussion questions are Socratic in nature, they could be answered in different ways and vary in content.  In other words, many times there is no "right" answer.  The "Thinking" questions are just that - they are to get you thinking about possibilities.  Now, the Accountability questions will have answers for you.

 

I've used the Upper Grammar and this is the first year of Dialectic.  Since DD is in 6th this year, we've eased into the discussion questions.  For example, we don't do the history Accountability and Thinking questions at all. Since I like history and want to learn more, we read the history selections together and discuss topics that we find interesting as we come to them.  I consider that Socratic discussion.  We just recently had some fabulous discussions about the Civil War.  I do ask her to do some of the Worldview/Church History discussion questions. 

 

One thing you MUST remember with TOG -- It's a buffet; you don't have to do it all. Yes, it looks overwhelming, but that's because it's chock full so you can pick and choose what you want to focus on.  If you don't want to go in depth in history, just do the core readings and leave out the in-depth reading.  If you don't want to do the Read Aloud -- don't do it or change it up and read the lit book out loud, or substitute, or ditch it altogether.

 

I think the Literature selections and worksheets that go with them are fantastic.  For the most part, DD really enjoys the books.  However, since I know her likes and dislikes, if I know she won't enjoy a scheduled book, I don't make her read it.  I choose a comparable book that I know she'll enjoy and just forget the worksheet, or I'll move on to the next lit choice.

 

An example of the type of literature analysis employed in the Dialectic stage is as follows:  DD has been reading Alice & Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass.  The worksheet she is doing right now is asking her to find examples in the book of assonance, alliteration, personification, simile and a pun.  She also had to determine what type of character Alice was: one, two, or three dimensional and explain her answer with examples.  Then she had to break down two lines of a specific poem in the book denoting the type of meter used, stressed & unstressed syllables, and the feet.  That was just a portion of the worksheet.  Thankfully, we've been doing Figuratively Speaking as well.

 

If you don't want your homeschool to focus on history or lit, TOG, SL, and HOD may not be the programs for you. We are a history-centered homeschool because my DD loves history.  That is why we chose TOG. Some students hate history and have other interests.  In that case, TOG would not be the curriculum for them.  It just depends on what your student is passionate about.  I say this gently: you might want to consider that it may be that you really don't want a lit-based history program because you've indicated you don't want to focus in those two areas, but that is what the types of programs you mention are going to focus on.

 

Thank you for all of this information!  I can understand that the Socratic discussion/thinking questions would not have specific answers, and I do want that type of questioning, but it's good to know the accountability questions do have answers.  Does UG have accountability questions?  I was trying to remember what level they start at.

 

That's good to know that it's not too time-consuming to read the history together in 6th.  I'd like to do the same.

 

The literature analysis sounds fabulous.  TOG seems to be the only program that really does a good job with this.  Did you add Figuratively Speaking in because TOG was lacking anything?  Do you use the TOG writing prompts?

 

I probably should reword what I stated about not wanting to be history-heavy.  We do enjoy studying history and using real lit to flush it out.  I have gravitated toward HOD, SL, etc., because we do.  I have gotten this notion in my head that TOG is way more history at the high school levels than HOD and SL.  Maybe that is not the case?  The rhetoric level just seems intense.  I know SL has a gazillion books, but the questioning and output doesn't seem as intense as TOG.  Maybe I'm wrong?  TOG just seems to take things to a very high level.  When I look at the rhetoric level, the pages of questions go on and on.  I'm just wondering how much time that would take every week.  I want balance in the high school years, and don't want to feel like we are unable to do anything but school because everything is so time-consuming.  I know in these lower levels, I have struggled with HOD and SL being so full.  I feel LA and math are really critical in these elementary years, and that history can't consume our day.  HOD tends to go light and quick on LA and math in these years, and our programs take more time, so in the end our days end up too full because we place more of an emphasis on the LA and math.  SL is the same way with their LA.  These full days are doing us in.  I just want to make sure that whatever we end up with is feasible.  I think it's hard for me to figure TOG out because of it being a week's worth of work all lumped together.  I have wondered lately, though, if TOG might actually free us up better than HOD and SL at this level.  HOD has a lot of tedious components for each day, and with SL's 36-week, 5 day a week plan, we always feel behind.  I know we could do a 4-day schedule with them, but it's hard to see those 5-day books and ignore them. :)  With TOG it might be easier to pick and choose than with HOD, where it feels like everything ties together and builds on itself and needs to be done.  But I just don't know about TOG at the higher levels, and if it will be too time-consuming or not.

 

Also, do you feel TOG is disjointed without a spine?  That is another concern I mentioned in my discussion with Jan.  I struggle some with HOD and SL because even with "spines", there is a lot of jumping around and it's hard for me to keep everything straight.  Sometimes I wonder if one continuous spine might be better for me.  I didn't learn history well the first time around, and need all the help I can get.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[Momofeat]

We are in our 4th year with TOG. My oldest dd is in the Rhetoric Level. My middle dd is working in the Upper Grammar level for history and Dialectic level for everything else, while my son is Lower Grammar for Literature and Upper Grammar for everything else. My family is touching all four levels this year, lol! We use some of the Writing Aids writing prompts, but not all of them.

 

Anyway, it is pretty rigorous in the upper levels. However, it's been more rigorous for my dd than for me. She does her work independently and then participates in discussion at a TOG co-op once a week. I see the questions as a preparation for the discussion, and I don't really worry about right/wrong for those. It is possible to adjust the level of difficulty, though. One way is exactly what I've done with my younger kids: put the child in the level that is the best match rather than basing the decision on grade level. If appropriate, use more than one level. Another way to adjust is to require less. It's possible to purchase evaluations with TOG. I only use them for Dialectic and Rhetoric levels, and I only require my oldest dd take the weekly test every 2 or 3 weeks. Some of my co-op friends & I have allowed our children to totally drop one or two of the TOG subjects at the high school level. (I don't think any of the high school level co-op kids do TOG's Art or Geography, some of the kids don't do the literature, and others don't do the church history.) As an earlier poster said, it's a buffet.

 

The literature and history overlap time periods, and the literature program is exceptionally strong, but I would not consider TOG to be a literature-based program. It's a history-based program with literature, art, church history, and geography lessons coordinated with the time period that's being studied.

 

I do not feel like TOG is disjointed at all. I used SL when my oldest dd was K-2, and it jumped around a whole lot more.

[Tenaj]

It won't let me select your entire reply, Jan, but thank you so much for the info.!  When do the paper maps start?  I didn't realize SL switched over to those.  That is great news!  Also, that's good to hear that the SL notes mention literary analysis and devices.  Are the LA writing assignments tied to the history at all?  The lit?  Do you think they would be worth doing?

 

I'm not exactly sure when the paper maps start.  I did use one of the middle cores years ago and I can't remember.  That would be a good questions to ask over on their forums.  The LA assignments are tied to the history and lit.  I didn't use them for this year because my son needed more direct instruction.  I think the SL approach to writing is good but I think it's more effective if it's been used over several years rather than just for one year.

 

That's good to know that you think the SL notes by day are less overwhelming than the TOG notes clumped by week.  I think because I am so visual, that's why TOG is so overwhelming to me.  It's helpful to know TOG is strongest in the lit department and also to know that the history seems disjointed to you without the spine.   You know, I'm remembering now that I recently got an email from TOG and it seems like they have been working on a new literature product that can be purchased separately, come to think of it!  I hope I'm not dreaming this, and I will see if I can find it or a link on their website.  If this is true, it would be a great way to get lit covered with real books, real help, and in a manageable way.  I've consider BJU reading and lit as well, but I don't like the anthology approach and would still have to schedule real books and find resources to cover those.  Thanks for your thoughts on the PP guides.  I looked at those at convention and just wasn't inspired.

 

Now I'm going to have to head over to TOG to see what's new over there!

 

So having used SL Core 300 now, would you use it again with your younger kids, or do you think you will stick with HOD through high school?  If TOG offered this lit product that I might just be dreaming up, lol, would you prefer HOD + TOG or SL + TOG?  I'm concerned about the lack of teacher support in the HOD guides, especially once the kids are working so independently.  Are you reading the HOD books?  Do you have other kids in the independent HOD levels?  How are you making that work?  Having used SL and its notes now, do you find that more helpful, or do you still prefer HOD for its other features, even without the teacher notes?

 

Right now I'm planning on continuing to use the HOD guides up through high school.  I like the way Carrie coordinates the history studies and so far we have liked the science in the middle guides (Bigger and up).  There are parts of HOD that I change or adjust to fit our family.  We do our own math and completely change the language arts box, except for the dictation.  Read alouds change into independent reading for the kids who can handle it.  I don't like DITHOR and would love to be able to use TOG for that box.

 

I am not reading the HOD books ahead - that would be my goal- but it didn't happen this year.  I'm planning to read the Res to Ref books ahead of my 11 yods who will be heading into that guide within the next few weeks. He's a kid that's going to need more accountability from me than his older brother so I need to that for him.   So far, I've been able to keep up by using the notes in the guide's boxes and by just generally flipping through the book during oral narrations.  I try to read the chapters before written narrations so that I can hold them accountable on those.  My ideal would be to run completely through the guide myself and make myself an answer key - I even thought about runnig the student pages through a copier for myself (they wouldn't be pretty) so that I could put a notebook together of what should be in each box and what info should generally be there.  The independence is what makes it possible to run several guides.  Right now, I have one in Rev to Rev, Ctc, Preparing and LHFHG.  Our system with the independent learners is that they have a list of assignments on a clipboard for each day and they aren't done with their day until I go over their list.  That's when I check any work that doesn't require an answer key and just verbally check to make sure they've completed all their work.  That's when I check the stuff they've put in their HOD notebooks for the day.  The exception is their written narrations.  We do a rough draft on those and then I check before it goes into their notebook.  

 

I prefer HOD for myself.  Mainly because of the independence built in as the kids move up their guides but I love the Sonlight books.  One of the reasons I picked HOD for our family over SL is that I've tried running multiple SL guides and it's just really difficult.  I have too large of an age range to combine so separate programs work better in our situation.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, it's really helpful that you've used these different products and can share your experience!

 

Kathy

 

Best wishes as you work out these decisions for your family and find what fits.  

[Saddlemomma]

Thank you for all of this information!  I can understand that the Socratic discussion/thinking questions would not have specific answers, and I do want that type of questioning, but it's good to know the accountability questions do have answers.  Does UG have accountability questions?  I was trying to remember what level they start at.  UG does not have the accountability questions.  However, I purchased their Evaluations supplement and used those questions just as accountability questions rather than test questions, or  if you do the reading with them, you could just discuss interesting points as you read or after.

 

That's good to know that it's not too time-consuming to read the history together in 6th.  I'd like to do the same.  Sometimes there is quite a bit of reading, too much in fact.  On those weeks, I preview the reading and pare it down according to what we want to focus on.  In some cases, there are multiple readings on the same topic.  If I see that, I just skip one of the two readings. 

 

The literature analysis sounds fabulous.  TOG seems to be the only program that really does a good job with this.  Did you add Figuratively Speaking in because TOG was lacking anything?  Do you use the TOG writing prompts? I haven't seen anything lacking with TOG's lit. I added Figuratively Speaking because I didn't purchase TOG's Poetics supplement and I felt FS was a really good supplement to get DD up to speed on some literary terms.  It has helped her out greatly this year.  I did purchase Writing Aids, but DD has been a reluctant writer and has trouble with non-fiction writing.  She needed a much more incremental, hand-holding program, something that provided clear, concise steps. This year we've been doing Jump In and it has helped her tremendously.  We've gotten over the "hump".  Next year we will be doing EIW 7. Writing Aids is fine for a natural writer or a kid who is not such a reluctant writer.

 

I probably should reword what I stated about not wanting to be history-heavy.  We do enjoy studying history and using real lit to flush it out.  I have gravitated toward HOD, SL, etc., because we do.  I have gotten this notion in my head that TOG is way more history at the high school levels than HOD and SL.  Maybe that is not the case?  The rhetoric level just seems intense. TOG, in my opinion, is a rigorous program.  However, because you have that "buffet" you can easily trim it down. In addition, when you look at the Rhetoric stage offerings, you must keep in mind it is set up for two different paths - regular history credit and honors history credit.  A minimum of 32 weeks reading just  the core and in-depth selections, doing all the T/A questions and map assignments will give your student a regular credit.  Reading ALL the reading selections, doing all questions, all maps, and timeline work will give your child an honors credit.  

 

I know SL has a gazillion books, but the questioning and output doesn't seem as intense as TOG.  Maybe I'm wrong?  TOG just seems to take things to a very high level.  When I look at the rhetoric level, the pages of questions go on and on.  I'm justwondering how much time that would take every week. I just did a random check of Rhetoric A/T questions for a week in the middle of each unit for Y3. There is about an average of 5-6 Accountability questions each week (sometimes a chart needs to be filled in), which can be answered with one sentence and about 5 to 6 Thinking questions for which a student may just want to jot down some notes to jog their memory during the discussion.

 

I want balance in the high school years, and don't want to feel like we are unable to do anything but school because everything is so time-consuming.  I know in these lower levels, I have struggled with HOD and SL being so full.  I feel LA and math are really critical in these elementary years, and that history can't consume our day.  If that's what you want, then concentrate on LA & Math and pare down the history by just doing the core readings or core + in depth. We use TOG for history, geography, lit, and worldview/church history.  I can tell you that right now we do the core & in-depth readings together and discuss as we go along.  Sometimes, if we like the book, we'll do the read aloud as well.  We do history 3x a week for an hour each class.  I also add in BrainPop when appropriate and additional supplemental YT videos, plus she keeps a history notebook.  We get everything done in those 3 days.  DD's school days with her other classed added in are 5 hours long (we do a  block schedule) which is standard for 6th grade.  She very rarely has history homework.

 

HOD tends to go light and quick on LA and math in these years, and our programs take more time, so in the end our days end up to full because we place more of an emphasis on the LA and math. Math for us (Horizons plus supplemental videos when appropriate) is 45 mins. daily; TOG Lit is scheduled for 45 mins 3x/week; Grammar is Fix-It for 30mins (really only takes 15 mins) 2x week because we do Latin 4x a week @ 45mins. Writing is 3x a week @ 45 mins. 

 

SL is the same way with their LA.  These full days are doing us in.  I just want to make sure that whatever we end up with is feasible.  I think it's hard for me to figure TOG out because of it being a week's worth of work all lumped together. Exactly!  I just highlight what I want DD to do each week, and then break it down into chunks for each of the 3 days which usually works out perfectly.  (DD wanted and requested a specific schedule with class times to keep her on track so she doesn't dawdle or spend too much time on one subject).  I've done this and it works really well and can be applied to any program you use.

 

I have wondered lately, though, if TOG might actually free us up better than HOD and SL at this level.  HOD has a lot of tedious components for each day, and with SL's 36-week, 5 day a week plan, we always feel behind.  DD takes Band/Flute classes 2x a week @ 2 hrs. each. For this reason alone, I do block scheduling where those two days are our light class days - Grammar, Science @ 1h/2x a week and some other light classes. Classes that are more involved and longer are on the alternate days.  We still only school for 5 hrs. each day., I  

 

I know we could do a 4-day schedule with them, but it's hard to see those 5-day books and ignore them. :)  With TOG it might be easier to pick and choose than with HOD, where it feels like everything ties together and builds on itself and needs to be done.  It's still hard to drop lovely books..lol.. but I have to do it to keep our schedule on track.  It was harder to do this last year, but this year, I've loosened up and found the joy of realizing it's just a buffet for ME to choose FROM.  I've learned there is no way we can do everything.  Now I'm much more relaxed and have no problem skipping certain books especially if I know DD won't enjoy them.  It's just not worth the time or money for her to slog through something she would hate.

 

But I just don't know about TOG at the higher levels, and if it will be too time-consuming or not.  I can't help you there.  That's something you will have to figure out just as I will.  I do know that I will be expecting more from DD in HS and classes will be longer as they should be by then.

 

Also, do you feel TOG is disjointed without a spine?  We have not had that problem at all.  DD really loves the program and the book selections.  She has no problem reading some sections of a book and not others or reading one section one week and then a different one another.  She's done that all this year with Abraham Lincoln's World and she has thoroughly enjoyed it.  She has specifically asked that we stick with this program through HS.  However, that's my kid, and it may be different for you. 

 

That is another concern I mentioned in my discussion with Jan.  I struggle some with HOD and SL because even with "spines", there is a lot of jumping around and it's hard for me to keep everything straight.  Sometimes I wonder if one continuous spine might be better for me.  I didn't learn history well the first time around, and need all the help I can get.  It may be that's what you need, but you'll want to ask your child which he/she would prefer too.  Some curricula I have really liked and wanted to continue using didn't mesh with DD so I had to drop them.  I may have liked them, but they didn't do my DD any good because she couldn't relate to them and didn't retain anything.  HTH

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

[jer2911mom]

We are in our 4th year with TOG. My oldest dd is in the Rhetoric Level. My middle dd is working in the Upper Grammar level for history and Dialectic level for everything else, while my son is Lower Grammar for Literature and Upper Grammar for everything else. My family is touching all four levels this year, lol! We use some of the Writing Aids writing prompts, but not all of them.

 

Anyway, it is pretty rigorous in the upper levels. However, it's been more rigorous for my dd than for me. She does her work independently and then participates in discussion at a TOG co-op once a week. I see the questions as a preparation for the discussion, and I don't really worry about right/wrong for those. It is possible to adjust the level of difficulty, though. One way is exactly what I've done with my younger kids: put the child in the level that is the best match rather than basing the decision on grade level. If appropriate, use more than one level. Another way to adjust is to require less. It's possible to purchase evaluations with TOG. I only use them for Dialectic and Rhetoric levels, and I only require my oldest dd take the weekly test every 2 or 3 weeks. Some of my co-op friends & I have allowed our children to totally drop one or two of the TOG subjects at the high school level. (I don't think any of the high school level co-op kids do TOG's Art or Geography, some of the kids don't do the literature, and others don't do the church history.) As an earlier poster said, it's a buffet.

 

The literature and history overlap time periods, and the literature program is exceptionally strong, but I would not consider TOG to be a literature-based program. It's a history-based program with literature, art, church history, and geography lessons coordinated with the time period that's being studied.

 

I do not feel like TOG is disjointed at all. I used SL when my oldest dd was K-2, and it jumped around a whole lot more.

 

Thank you!  I appreciate the reminder that you don't have to do it all at the upper levels, and you can drop subjects to keep it manageable.  That is a good idea.  How do you plan TOG?  Do you do certain things certain days of the week or do you schedule it all out ahead of time?  I really need open-and-go at this season of our lives.  Do you buy the books or use the library?  I need the books here because the library does not work well for us.

 

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

Best wishes as you work out these decisions for your family and find what fits.  

 

Thanks again for the info.!  I'm amazed at all that you are able to do.  I can barely manage my two dds, lol.  Let me ask you, if you had two dds, three years apart, would you still do HOD?  They are too far apart for one SL core (because of the mature topics).  Is independence the main reason you chose HOD?  If you didn't need your kids quite so independent, would you still choose it?  I believe kids should grow in their independence as they get older, but I still want to do history together if at all possible.

Thanks,

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

Thank you for all of this information!  I can understand that the Socratic discussion/thinking questions would not have specific answers, and I do want that type of questioning, but it's good to know the accountability questions do have answers.  Does UG have accountability questions?  I was trying to remember what level they start at.  UG does not have the accountability questions.  However, I purchased their Evaluations supplement and used those questions just as accountability questions rather than test questions, or  if you do the reading with them, you could just discuss interesting points as you read or after.

 

That's good to know that it's not too time-consuming to read the history together in 6th.  I'd like to do the same.  Sometimes there is quite a bit of reading, too much in fact.  On those weeks, I preview the reading and pare it down according to what we want to focus on.  In some cases, there are multiple readings on the same topic.  If I see that, I just skip one of the two readings. 

 

The literature analysis sounds fabulous.  TOG seems to be the only program that really does a good job with this.  Did you add Figuratively Speaking in because TOG was lacking anything?  Do you use the TOG writing prompts? I haven't seen anything lacking with TOG's lit. I added Figuratively Speaking because I didn't purchase TOG's Poetics supplement and I felt FS was a really good supplement to get DD up to speed on some literary terms.  It has helped her out greatly this year.  I did purchase Writing Aids, but DD has been a reluctant writer and has trouble with non-fiction writing.  She needed a much more incremental, hand-holding program, something that provided clear, concise steps. This year we've been doing Jump In and it has helped her tremendously.  We've gotten over the "hump".  Next year we will be doing EIW 7. Writing Aids is fine for a natural writer or a kid who is not such a reluctant writer.

 

I probably should reword what I stated about not wanting to be history-heavy.  We do enjoy studying history and using real lit to flush it out.  I have gravitated toward HOD, SL, etc., because we do.  I have gotten this notion in my head that TOG is way more history at the high school levels than HOD and SL.  Maybe that is not the case?  The rhetoric level just seems intense. TOG, in my opinion, is a rigorous program.  However, because you have that "buffet" you can easily trim it down. In addition, when you look at the Rhetoric stage offerings, you must keep in mind it is set up for two different paths - regular history credit and honors history credit.  A minimum of 32 weeks reading just  the core and in-depth selections, doing all the T/A questions and map assignments will give your student a regular credit.  Reading ALL the reading selections, doing all questions, all maps, and timeline work will give your child an honors credit.  

 

I know SL has a gazillion books, but the questioning and output doesn't seem as intense as TOG.  Maybe I'm wrong?  TOG just seems to take things to a very high level.  When I look at the rhetoric level, the pages of questions go on and on.  I'm justwondering how much time that would take every week. I just did a random check of Rhetoric A/T questions for a week in the middle of each unit for Y3. There is about an average of 5-6 Accountability questions each week (sometimes a chart needs to be filled in), which can be answered with one sentence and about 5 to 6 Thinking questions for which a student may just want to jot down some notes to jog their memory during the discussion.

 

I want balance in the high school years, and don't want to feel like we are unable to do anything but school because everything is so time-consuming.  I know in these lower levels, I have struggled with HOD and SL being so full.  I feel LA and math are really critical in these elementary years, and that history can't consume our day.  If that's what you want, then concentrate on LA & Math and pare down the history by just doing the core readings or core + in depth. We use TOG for history, geography, lit, and worldview/church history.  I can tell you that right now we do the core & in-depth readings together and discuss as we go along.  Sometimes, if we like the book, we'll do the read aloud as well.  We do history 3x a week for an hour each class.  I also add in BrainPop when appropriate and additional supplemental YT videos, plus she keeps a history notebook.  We get everything done in those 3 days.  DD's school days with her other classed added in are 5 hours long (we do a  block schedule) which is standard for 6th grade.  She very rarely has history homework.

 

HOD tends to go light and quick on LA and math in these years, and our programs take more time, so in the end our days end up to full because we place more of an emphasis on the LA and math. Math for us (Horizons plus supplemental videos when appropriate) is 45 mins. daily; TOG Lit is scheduled for 45 mins 3x/week; Grammar is Fix-It for 30mins (really only takes 15 mins) 2x week because we do Latin 4x a week @ 45mins. Writing is 3x a week @ 45 mins. 

 

SL is the same way with their LA.  These full days are doing us in.  I just want to make sure that whatever we end up with is feasible.  I think it's hard for me to figure TOG out because of it being a week's worth of work all lumped together. Exactly!  I just highlight what I want DD to do each week, and then break it down into chunks for each of the 3 days which usually works out perfectly.  (DD wanted and requested a specific schedule with class times to keep her on track so she doesn't dawdle or spend too much time on one subject).  I've done this and it works really well and can be applied to any program you use.

 

I have wondered lately, though, if TOG might actually free us up better than HOD and SL at this level.  HOD has a lot of tedious components for each day, and with SL's 36-week, 5 day a week plan, we always feel behind.  DD takes Band/Flute classes 2x a week @ 2 hrs. each. For this reason alone, I do block scheduling where those two days are our light class days - Grammar, Science @ 1h/2x a week and some other light classes. Classes that are more involved and longer are on the alternate days.  We still only school for 5 hrs. each day., I 

 

I know we could do a 4-day schedule with them, but it's hard to see those 5-day books and ignore them.  :)  With TOG it might be easier to pick and choose than with HOD, where it feels like everything ties together and builds on itself and needs to be done.  It's still hard to drop lovely books..lol.. but I have to do it to keep our schedule on track.  It was harder to do this last year, but this year, I've loosened up and found the joy of realizing it's just a buffet for ME to choose FROM.  I've learned there is no way we can do everything.  Now I'm much more relaxed and have no problem skipping certain books especially if I know DD won't enjoy them.  It's just not worth the time or money for her to slog through something she would hate.

 

But I just don't know about TOG at the higher levels, and if it will be too time-consuming or not.  I can't help you there.  That's something you will have to figure out just as I will.  I do know that I will be expecting more from DD in HS and classes will be longer as they should be by then.

 

Also, do you feel TOG is disjointed without a spine?  We have not had that problem at all.  DD really loves the program and the book selections.  She has no problem reading some sections of a book and not others or reading one section one week and then a different one another.  She's done that all this year with Abraham Lincoln's World and she has thoroughly enjoyed it.  She has specifically asked that we stick with this program through HS.  However, that's my kid, and it may be different for you. 

 

That is another concern I mentioned in my discussion with Jan.  I struggle some with HOD and SL because even with "spines", there is a lot of jumping around and it's hard for me to keep everything straight.  Sometimes I wonder if one continuous spine might be better for me.  I didn't learn history well the first time around, and need all the help I can get.  It may be that's what you need, but you'll want to ask your child which he/she would prefer too.  Some curricula I have really liked and wanted to continue using didn't mesh with DD so I had to drop them.  I may have liked them, but they didn't do my DD any good because she couldn't relate to them and didn't retain anything.  HTH

 

Thanks,

Kathy

 

Thanks again for all the info.!  That's a good idea to use the evaluations as discussion questions for UG.

 

Thanks for the reminder about honors vs. regular at the rhetoric level, and about the buffet and trimming it down to suit us.  I am one who gets the deer-in-the-headlights look when faced with too many choices.  I am doing better with it as I get more comfortable homeschooling and am finding our groove, but I struggle with not knowing what is age-appropriate work and what we "should" be doing.  I like when someone else has thought all that out and assigned it for the level we are in.  That's where I'm not sure if TOG will work for us, because I have to decide what's enough, which keeps it from being open-and-go for us.  I tend to spin my wheels and overanalyze when it comes to stuff like that.  TOG would be a leap of faith for me.  But I do pray everyday for us to learn what God would have us learn for the day, so I need to trust that He would make that clear for us.

 

I guess what looks overwhelming to me on the Rhetoric questions are the teacher notes for the history and lit discussions.  That's where I see a lot of material to cover.  I'm sure as I got more familiar with it, I'd get more comfortable with it and know the best way to tackle it.  It just seems like a lot, but we are only in 4th grade, so once I'm at that level, it might not be as intimidating.

 

Can you please tell me more about how you structure your history period and your lit period?  What specifically do you do during that time?  Do you plan it all out ahead of time or do the same thing each week?  Do you do the projects? The art?  How do you handle the geography?  It seems like a crazy long list of terms and I haven't really seen a good explanation of what to do with them.  Do you do that during your history period or another time?  Do you do the church history during your history time?  What do you get from Brain Pop and what are the YT videos?  Also, is the history notebook something you are doing extra on top of TOG?  What do you put in it?  TOG doesn't really include notebooking, right?

 

Our days are really long, too long for a 4th grader (so long that long high school days don't seem like they'd be any different), and really too long for my 1st grader, too, although her day is better.  Would you mind sharing your block schedule with me?  You can PM if you'd like.  I really need some inspiration.  I've tried a lot of things but with teaching two, and my younger being very dependent on me, it's really hard to keep things manageable.  Part of it is I feel we are very history/lit-heavy.  I think I need to look into a schedule again.  I tried it at the beginning of the year and it just didn't work for us.  I really need to find something that works.  I think part of it will be me continuing to loosen up, as you put it, and relaxing and finding the joy in choosing.  I do feel like I'm making baby steps in that direction, lol, but the programs we've used so far have been written in such a way that they are not meant to be buffets and you are meant to do it all as-written, and that makes it hard for me to skip anything.  Maybe using a program that explicitly tells me it is a buffet and we should skip things would actually help, lol.

 

As far as continuity without a spine, how does it work, exactly?  Where does the "flow" come from?  Is it from the introduction to each week and the info. in the student activity sheets?  The teacher notes and the discussion questions?

 

My dd loves to read and that's why I think a lit-based program suits her well.  She also loves to create things and draw.  She needs a creative outlet in her work.  HOD is good in some ways, but it is a little too specific in exactly how things are to be done and I think sometimes she feels "boxed in".  SL doesn't really offer her anything in the way of a creative outlet.  We'd have to add notebooking weekly and a project once a month for that, which I think she'd be up for.  I think she would enjoy choosing from the TOG projects.  She is good at rounding up materials and getting started.  I'm bad about getting things ahead of time that we might need. In that way, HOD has suited us because it uses things mostly found around the house.  It could be that TOG would suit her well and I'd just need to get a spine for myself, like MOH, to kind of get an overall feel for history.

 

Thanks so much for your time,

Kathy

[Tenaj]

Thanks again for the info.!  I'm amazed at all that you are able to do.  I can barely manage my two dds, lol.  Let me ask you, if you had two dds, three years apart, would you still do HOD?  They are too far apart for one SL core (because of the mature topics).  Is independence the main reason you chose HOD?  If you didn't need your kids quite so independent, would you still choose it?  I believe kids should grow in their independence as they get older, but I still want to do history together if at all possible.

Thanks,

Kathy

 

It really depends on the kids.  I did not choose HOD because of the independence factor, I chose it because of a situation I found myself in  because of the personality of my kids.  The independence factor just allows HOD to work for our family.  I chose HOD because I have a now-13yods who is very laid-back and quiet soul,  very normal (or maybe just a bit 'slower') as far as school work goes.  I also have a now-11yods who finds all school work very easy.  He's also very enthusiastic (over-bearing would be the less polite description - LOL!).  These two kids are just polar opposites.  When we were doing history, science or really any subject all together, the younger would just constantly out-do, out-talk, and out-write the older.  I could just see my older shrinking from the perceived competition while the younger grew more and more obnoxious about the situation.  Changing over to HOD solved the problem.  We don't do anything together at this point and they can be friends again without the competition.  I purposefully have the younger in a different math curriculum and obviously different HOD guides.  

 

So, all that to say, the reason I chose HOD may be very unique to our family.  I do love the way Christ and the Bible is woven into almost all assignments.  I truly love the guides from Preparing on up - not so much the younger guides and I'm trying to decide what to do about that situation.  May actually jump over and do something for my younger two from Sonlight for this coming year (but then again, I have all the HOD stuff already on my shelves!).

 

If I had a different mix of ages and personalities I'm not sure where I would have ended up.  They are all good programs.  You can tell from my posts that I've used a lot of different programs over the years.  I've stuck with HOD the longest because it's worked the best for my younger five kids.  

[Saddlemomma]

 

 

Thanks again for all the info.!  That's a good idea to use evaluations as discussion questions for UG.

 

Thanks for the reminder about honors vs. regular at the rhetoric level, and about the buffet and trimming it down to suit us.  I am one who gets the deer-in-the-headlights look when faced with too many choices.  I am doing better with it as I get more comfortable homeschooling and am finding our groove, but I struggle with not knowing what is age-appropriate work and what we "should" be doing.  I like when someone else has thought all that out and assigned it for the level we are in.  That's where I'm not sure if TOG will work for us, because I have to decide what's enough, which keeps it from being open-and-go for us.  I tend to spin my wheels and overanalyze when it comes to stuff like that.  TOG would be a leap of faith for me.  But I do pray everyday for us to learn what God would have us learn for the day, so I need to trust that He would make that clear for us.

 

I guess what looks overwhelming to me on the Rhetoric questions are the teacher notes for the history and lit discussions.  That's where I see a lot of material to cover.  I'm sure as I got more familiar with it, I'd get more comfortable with it and know the best way to tackle it.  It just seems like a lot, but we are only in 4th grade, so once I'm at that level, it might not be as intimidating.

 

Can you please tell me more about how you structure your history period and your lit period?  What specifically do you do during that time?  One thing you have to keep in mind is that I only have one child I'm schooling and she is a voracious reader, so this is much easier for me. History is scheduled M, W, F at an hour/class.  I briefly preview the reading selections in TOG and decide which one's we're going to do.  For instance, TOG Y3 Week 6 had 3 books scheduled: This Country of Ours (Chps., 69-70), Abraham Lincoln's World (pgs. 5-10; 22-39; 44-59), & The Struggle for Sea Power (Chps. 37-42). After looking at the selections, I broke down my history days this way:

• Monday - I titled the history theme for the day as Napoleon and had DD read ALW, pgs. 5-10; SSP, Chps. 37; 39-42 (I knocked out chp 38 because it was redundant).  All those selections were about Napoleon.  That was all she had to do for that day in history and she had an hour to do it.  I read some of it with her and we had some discussion. 
• Wednesday - I titled our history theme for the day as Madison & Native Americans since the reading selections I grouped together were about those two topics.  She had to read: ALW, pgs., 26-35 and This Country of Ours, Chp. 69. That's all she had to read, so I added the BrainPop Movie about Tecumseh, and she had to do one of the activities and the quiz.  She printed both to her Onenote notebook.  She had time left over. 
• Friday - Our history theme was War of 1812.  She read AHL, pgs., 22-25; 36-39, and This Country of Ours, chp. 70. She then did the BrainPop movie I scheduled about James Madison and the quiz.  She printed both into her Onenote notebook.

We did not do the read aloud, and I did not bother with any of the teacher's notes.  In fact, I still haven't bothered with the teacher's notes.  It's nice that they are there if I need them, but I really haven't needed them because we read a lot of the history together and just discuss what comes to mind or any interesting facts that grab our attention.  Plus, I'm always looking for her to make connections, so I questions her about things to lead her in those directions. 

 

What do you get from Brain Pop and what are the YT videos?  BrainPop is a paid subscription ($99/yr) educational website that provides short movies (approx. 3-4 mins) about topics in history, science, English, health, and math.  There are hundreds of them.  Each movie has activities and a quiz to go with them.  There are also games available and additional FYI articles.  These are appropriate for kids up to 8th grade.  We have used them since DD was in 3rd grade.  She loves them. In fact, her whole health curriculum came strictly from BrainPop.

YT stands for YouTube.com. If I find a good YouTube video regarding history, science, math, or literary subjects I will also schedule them into our studies. In the case of history, it may be that the video has all the information that one of TOG's scheduled books has, in which case I may not have DD read that selection and just have her watch the video.  I may also require both the reading and video depending upon how much time both will take.  We have 3 hours a week for history to fit everything in, and I do my best to make sure DD doesn't have busy work or homework.

 

Do you plan it all out ahead of time or do the same thing each week?  Since my DD does Band/Flute classes at the local PS on Tuesdays and Thursdays (2 hrs/day.) each week, I print out my TOG pages to take with me, plus my laptop and our other class materials, take some necessary books with me (most are ebooks) to the school and work on our schedule during that time in the teacher's lounge.  It's a great time for me because it's pretty quiet, I can spread my stuff out on a table and go through what I want to do without interruptions. I'm usually done planning for the week on the Tuesdays and just chill out on Thursdays reading my Kindle.

 

 

Do you do the projects? No.  DD isn't the project type of kid. She'd much rather read The art? No. DD does a lot of drawing in her spare time on her own. I'm hoping to add some art at least once a week next year. 

 

How do you handle the geography?  It seems like a crazy long list of terms and I haven't really seen a good explanation of what to do with them.  Basically, the terms are your vocabulary for the week.  However, since DD is in the Dialectic stage, we no longer do those.  When we were in UG, I would ask DD if she knew any of the words, if she did, I would cross them out. If she didn't, I would list them on StudyStack.com and she would have to review them each day geography was scheduled prior to doing the rest of her geography. 

 

Do you do that during your history period or another time? We just do the maps and it is a separate class during the week scheduled for 30 mins. on  Mondays and Wednesdays. 

 

Do you do the church history during your history time?  Church History/Worldview is a separate class scheduled for 45 mins., on Thursdays and Fridays.

 

Also, is the history notebook something you are doing extra on top of TOG?  What do you put in it?  TOG doesn't really include notebooking, right?  TOG doesn't include notebooking.  However, I have DD keep a history notebook.  Most of her work is done right in her Onenote notebook on her laptop.  However, for those activities I want in her physical history notebook, I have her print them from Onenote and paste them into her history notebook or write directly into her notebook.  These assignments could be BrainPop activity sheets which she has completed in Onenote and printed out, or narrations/charts I've asked her to write directly into her history notebook (remember, we don't do the A/T questions in TOG right now).  During our Civil War studies I did have DD do one of the Accountability assignments.  It was to keep a chart of all the battles of the Civil War.  I was able to take a snapshot of the chart from the appropriate TOG workbook page (I have the DE version) and print it to her Onenote notebook under the history class tab.  She was then able to fill it out during our readings.  Once it was completed at the end of our 5-week study, she was able to print it, cut it out, and paste the chart into her history notebook. 

 

Our days are really long, too long for a 4th grader (so long that long high school days don't seem like they'd be any different), and really too long for my 1st grader, too, although her day is better.  Would you mind sharing your block schedule with me?  You can PM if you'd like.  I really need some inspiration.  I've tried a lot of things but with teaching two, and my younger being very dependent on me, it's really hard to keep things manageable.  Part of it is I feel we are very history/lit-heavy.  I think I need to look into a schedule again.  I tried it at the beginning of the year and it just didn't work for us.  I really need to find something that works.  I think part of it will be me continuing to loosen up, as you put it, and relaxing and finding the joy in choosing.  I do feel like I'm making baby steps in that direction, lol, but the programs we've used so far have been written in such a way that they are not meant to be buffets and you are meant to do it all as-written, and that makes it hard for me to skip anything.  Maybe using a program that explicitly tells me it is a buffet and we should skip things would actually help, lol.

 

I don't mind sharing our schedule.  We usually begin school at 8AM and finish anywhere from 1:30 to 2:30 depending upon how long DD takes for lunch. Here is our schedule (remember she is in 6th grade and this would be long for a 4th grader):

 

Math: M-F (45M)

History: M, W, F (1H)

Geography: M, W (30M)

Literature: M, W, F (This was scheduled for 30M/class, but DD upped it herself to 45M recently)

Writing: M, W, F (45M)

Latin: M, T, W, F (30M - Visual Latin)

Grammar: T, Th (30M, Fix It Grammar - usually only takes 15 mins.)

Bible: T, Th (30M)

Science: T, Th (1H)

Band/Flute: T, Th (2H w/travel)

Church History: Th, F (Was scheduled for 30M/class, but DD upped it herself to 45M)

Philosophy: M, W (45M) This class was finished during the first semester.

 

 

As far as continuity without a spine, how does it work, exactly?  Where does the "flow" come from?  Is it from the introduction to each week and the info. in the student activity sheets?  The teacher notes and the discussion questions?  TOG provides a weekly Introduction located in the student pages.  There really is a spine for each subject addressed in TOG--usually the core reading selecton.  For example, our main spine for this whole year has been Abraham Lincoln's World. There have only been a handful of weeks where we didn't use this book.  On those weeks, we had an alternate main spine such as This Country of Ours, Our Island Story, or In The Days of Queen Victoria. You could also follow the Alternate Reading Suggestions and use SOTW which is scheduled out for you in TOG. 

 

My dd loves to read and that's why I think a lit-based program suits her well.  She also loves to create things and draw.  She needs a creative outlet in her work.  HOD is good in some ways, but it is a little too specific in exactly how things are to be done and I think sometimes she feels "boxed in".  SL doesn't really offer her anything in the way of a creative outlet.  We'd have to add notebooking weekly and a project once a month for that, which I think she'd be up for.  I think she would enjoy choosing from the TOG projects.  She is good at rounding up materials and getting started.  I'm bad about getting things ahead of time that we might need. In that way, HOD has suited us because it uses things mostly found around the house.  It could be that TOG would suit her well and I'd just need to get a spine for myself, like MOH, to kind of get an overall feel for history.  I really haven't needed any additional spines other than what TOG has suggested in their Core Reading Selections.  The only time I've substituted a spine was for our Civil War studies.  That was a 5-week study, and I really knew DD wouldn't enjoy TOG's selection.  After some research I chose Two Miserable Presidents and it was wonderful!  We had a great study and the book lined up perfectly with Ken Burns's documentary, The Civil War.

 

I'm not trying to convince you to use TOG, just answering your questions, so please don't feel pressured to use it.  For some people, it's just not a good fit.  It took us a long time to find the perfect fit for us and TOG just happens to be it.  However, it fits because I can pick and choose what I want to use.  This fits my style perfectly because I'm a constant "tweaker".  I was never happy with any other curricula because I felt I was either always boxed into it, or I didn't think it offered enough.  With TOG, I can tweak to my heart's content because there are so many choices.

 

Thanks so much for your time,  No problem!

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

Jan, a friend found the link to the TOG literature product I thought I had heard about:

 

http://www.tapestryofgrace.com/company/products/lisya.php#2

 

It is for Jr. high and they are doing ancients first.  If there is a lot of interest in it, then they will develop other products.  It is for those who are kind of in between dialectic and rhetoric, and for people not using TOG.  I hope they continue to develop these products!

 

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

It really depends on the kids.  I did not choose HOD because of the independence factor, I chose it because of a situation I found myself in  because of the personality of my kids.  The independence factor just allows HOD to work for our family.  I chose HOD because I have a now-13yods who is very laid-back and quiet soul,  very normal (or maybe just a bit 'slower') as far as school work goes.  I also have a now-11yods who finds all school work very easy.  He's also very enthusiastic (over-bearing would be the less polite description - LOL!).  These two kids are just polar opposites.  When we were doing history, science or really any subject all together, the younger would just constantly out-do, out-talk, and out-write the older.  I could just see my older shrinking from the perceived competition while the younger grew more and more obnoxious about the situation.  Changing over to HOD solved the problem.  We don't do anything together at this point and they can be friends again without the competition.  I purposefully have the younger in a different math curriculum and obviously different HOD guides.  

 

So, all that to say, the reason I chose HOD may be very unique to our family.  I do love the way Christ and the Bible is woven into almost all assignments.  I truly love the guides from Preparing on up - not so much the younger guides and I'm trying to decide what to do about that situation.  May actually jump over and do something for my younger two from Sonlight for this coming year (but then again, I have all the HOD stuff already on my shelves!).

 

If I had a different mix of ages and personalities I'm not sure where I would have ended up.  They are all good programs.  You can tell from my posts that I've used a lot of different programs over the years.  I've stuck with HOD the longest because it's worked the best for my younger five kids.  

 

Thanks, Jan.  I can understand the competition issue.  I sometimes see it with my girls.  I think it would probably be best for us to be on the same topic, but in different levels, or with different work for that topic.  That's where I see TOG possibly being a fit.  I've also thought about Cores D and E for my older, and Beyond and Bigger for my younger.  Then Preparing/Cores B and C for my younger over two years and Cores G and H for my older over two years, just to have us on the same era of history.

 

I love the way Christ and the Bible are woven into the HOD assignments as well.  We enjoyed LHFHG and Beyond.  Bigger was so-so.  Preparing has been okay for us so far.  I have done Core K between LHFHG and Beyond for both girls, and it has worked out well.  It helped them know there was a much bigger world out there than where we live, and gave them a heart for missions.  I liked doing that before diving into Beyond.  You might could do that with your two youngest.

 

Thanks again for all your thoughts and wisdom!

 

Kathy

[jer2911mom]

Thanks again for all the info.!  That's a good idea to use evaluations as discussion questions for UG.

 

Thanks for the reminder about honors vs. regular at the rhetoric level, and about the buffet and trimming it down to suit us.  I am one who gets the deer-in-the-headlights look when faced with too many choices.  I am doing better with it as I get more comfortable homeschooling and am finding our groove, but I struggle with not knowing what is age-appropriate work and what we "should" be doing.  I like when someone else has thought all that out and assigned it for the level we are in.  That's where I'm not sure if TOG will work for us, because I have to decide what's enough, which keeps it from being open-and-go for us.  I tend to spin my wheels and overanalyze when it comes to stuff like that.  TOG would be a leap of faith for me.  But I do pray everyday for us to learn what God would have us learn for the day, so I need to trust that He would make that clear for us.

 

I guess what looks overwhelming to me on the Rhetoric questions are the teacher notes for the history and lit discussions.  That's where I see a lot of material to cover.  I'm sure as I got more familiar with it, I'd get more comfortable with it and know the best way to tackle it.  It just seems like a lot, but we are only in 4th grade, so once I'm at that level, it might not be as intimidating.

 

Can you please tell me more about how you structure your history period and your lit period?  What specifically do you do during that time?  One thing you have to keep in mind is that I only have one child I'm schooling and she is a voracious reader, so this is much easier for me. History is scheduled M, W, F at an hour/class.  I briefly preview the reading selections in TOG and decide which one's we're going to do.  For instance, TOG Y3 Week 6 had 3 books scheduled: This Country of Ours (Chps., 69-70), Abraham Lincoln's World (pgs. 5-10; 22-39; 44-59), & The Struggle for Sea Power (Chps. 37-42). After looking at the selections, I broke down my history days this way:

• Monday - I titled the history theme for the day as Napoleon and had DD read ALW, pgs. 5-10; SSP, Chps. 37; 39-42 (I knocked out chp 38 because it was redundant).  All those selections were about Napoleon.  That was all she had to do for that day in history and she had an hour to do it.  I read some of it with her and we had some discussion.
• Wednesday - I titled our history theme for the day as Madison & Native Americans since the reading selections I grouped together were about those two topics.  She had to read: ALW, pgs., 26-35 and This Country of Ours, Chp. 69. That's all she had to read, so I added the BrainPop Movie about Tecumseh, and she had to do one of the activities and the quiz.  She printed both to her Onenote notebook.  She had time left over. 
• Friday - Our history theme was War of 1812.  She read AHL, pgs., 22-25; 36-39, and This Country of Ours, chp. 70. She then did the BrainPop movie I scheduled about James Madison and the quiz.  She printed both into her Onenote notebook.

We did not do the read aloud, and I did not bother with any of the teacher's notes.  In fact, I still haven't bothered with the teacher's notes.  It's nice that they are there if I need them, but I really haven't needed them because we read a lot of the history together and just discuss what comes to mind or any interesting facts that grab our attention.  Plus, I'm always looking for her to make connections, so I questions her about things to lead her in those directions.

 

What do you get from Brain Pop and what are the YT videos?  BrainPop is a paid subscription ($99/yr) educational website that provides short movies (approx. 3-4 mins) about topics in history, science, English, health, and math.  There are hundreds of them.  Each movie has activities and a quiz to go with them.  There are also games available and additional FYI articles.  These are appropriate for kids up to 8th grade.  We have used them since DD was in 3rd grade.  She loves them. In fact, her whole health curriculum came strictly from BrainPop.

YT stands for YouTube.com. If I find a good YouTube video regarding history, science, math, or literary subjects I will also schedule them into our studies. In the case of history, it may be that the video has all the information that one of TOG's scheduled books has, in which case I may not have DD read that selection and just have her watch the video.  I may also require both the reading and video depending upon how much time both will take.  We have 3 hours a week for history to fit everything in, and I do my best to make sure DD doesn't have busy work or homework.

 

Do you plan it all out ahead of time or do the same thing each week?  Since my DD does Band/Flute classes at the local PS on Tuesdays and Thursdays (2 hrs/day.) each week, I print out my TOG pages to take with me, plus my laptop and our other class materials, take some necessary books with me (most are ebooks) to the school and work on our schedule during that time in the teacher's lounge.  It's a great time for me because it's pretty quiet, I can spread my stuff out on a table and go through what I want to do without interruptions. I'm usually done planning for the week on the Tuesdays and just chill out on Thursdays reading my Kindle.

 

 

Do you do the projects? No.  DD isn't the project type of kid. She'd much rather read The art? No. DD does a lot of drawing in her spare time on her own. I'm hoping to add some art at least once a week next year.

 

How do you handle the geography?  It seems like a crazy long list of terms and I haven't really seen a good explanation of what to do with them.  Basically, the terms are your vocabulary for the week.  However, since DD is in the Dialectic stage, we no longer do those.  When we were in UG, I would ask DD if she knew any of the words, if she did, I would cross them out. If she didn't, I would list them on StudyStack.com and she would have to review them each day geography was scheduled prior to doing the rest of her geography. 

 

Do you do that during your history period or another time? We just do the maps and it is a separate class during the week scheduled for 30 mins. on  Mondays and Wednesdays.

 

Do you do the church history during your history time?  Church History/Worldview is a separate class scheduled for 45 mins., on Thursdays and Fridays.

 

Also, is the history notebook something you are doing extra on top of TOG?  What do you put in it?  TOG doesn't really include notebooking, right?  TOG doesn't include notebooking.  However, I have DD keep a history notebook.  Most of her work is done right in her Onenote notebook on her laptop.  However, for those activities I want in her physical history notebook, I have her print them from Onenote and paste them into her history notebook or write directly into her notebook.  These assignments could be BrainPop activity sheets which she has completed in Onenote and printed out, or narrations/charts I've asked her to write directly into her history notebook (remember, we don't do the A/T questions in TOG right now).  During our Civil War studies I did have DD do one of the Accountability assignments.  It was to keep a chart of all the battles of the Civil War.  I was able to take a snapshot of the chart from the appropriate TOG workbook page (I have the DE version) and print it to her Onenote notebook under the history class tab.  She was then able to fill it out during our readings.  Once it was completed at the end of our 5-week study, she was able to print it, cut it out, and paste the chart into her history notebook.

 

Our days are really long, too long for a 4th grader (so long that long high school days don't seem like they'd be any different), and really too long for my 1st grader, too, although her day is better.  Would you mind sharing your block schedule with me?  You can PM if you'd like.  I really need some inspiration.  I've tried a lot of things but with teaching two, and my younger being very dependent on me, it's really hard to keep things manageable.  Part of it is I feel we are very history/lit-heavy.  I think I need to look into a schedule again.  I tried it at the beginning of the year and it just didn't work for us.  I really need to find something that works.  I think part of it will be me continuing to loosen up, as you put it, and relaxing and finding the joy in choosing.  I do feel like I'm making baby steps in that direction, lol, but the programs we've used so far have been written in such a way that they are not meant to be buffets and you are meant to do it all as-written, and that makes it hard for me to skip anything.  Maybe using a program that explicitly tells me it is a buffet and we should skip things would actually help, lol.

 

I don't mind sharing our schedule.  We usually begin school at 8AM and finish anywhere from 1:30 to 2:30 depending upon how long DD takes for lunch. Here is our schedule (remember she is in 6th grade and this would be long for a 4th grader):

 

Math: M-F (45M)

History: M, W, F (1H)

Geography: M, W (30M)

Literature: M, W, F (This was scheduled for 30M/class, but DD upped it herself to 45M recently)

Writing: M, W, F (45M)

Latin: M, T, W, F (30M - Visual Latin)

Grammar: T, Th (30M, Fix It Grammar - usually only takes 15 mins.)

Bible: T, Th (30M)

Science: T, Th (1H)

Band/Flute: T, Th (2H w/travel)

Church History: Th, F (Was scheduled for 30M/class, but DD upped it herself to 45M)

Philosophy: M, W (45M) This class was finished during the first semester.

 

 

As far as continuity without a spine, how does it work, exactly?  Where does the "flow" come from?  Is it from the introduction to each week and the info. in the student activity sheets?  The teacher notes and the discussion questions?  TOG provides a weekly Introduction located in the student pages.  There really is a spine for each subject addressed in TOG--usually the core reading selecton.  For example, our main spine for this whole year has been Abraham Lincoln's World. There have only been a handful of weeks where we didn't use this book.  On those weeks, we had an alternate main spine such as This Country of Ours, Our Island Story, or In The Days of Queen Victoria. You could also follow the Alternate Reading Suggestions and use SOTW which is scheduled out for you in TOG. 

 

My dd loves to read and that's why I think a lit-based program suits her well.  She also loves to create things and draw.  She needs a creative outlet in her work.  HOD is good in some ways, but it is a little too specific in exactly how things are to be done and I think sometimes she feels "boxed in".  SL doesn't really offer her anything in the way of a creative outlet.  We'd have to add notebooking weekly and a project once a month for that, which I think she'd be up for.  I think she would enjoy choosing from the TOG projects.  She is good at rounding up materials and getting started.  I'm bad about getting things ahead of time that we might need. In that way, HOD has suited us because it uses things mostly found around the house.  It could be that TOG would suit her well and I'd just need to get a spine for myself, like MOH, to kind of get an overall feel for history.  I really haven't needed any additional spines other than what TOG has suggested in their Core Reading Selections.  The only time I've substituted a spine was for our Civil War studies.  That was a 5-week study, and I really knew DD wouldn't enjoy TOG's selection.  After some research I chose Two Miserable Presidents and it was wonderful!  We had a great study and the book lined up perfectly with Ken Burns's documentary, The Civil War.

 

I'm not trying to convince you to use TOG, just answering your questions, so please don't feel pressured to use it.  For some people, it's just not a good fit.  It took us a long time to find the perfect fit for us and TOG just happens to be it.  However, it fits because I can pick and choose what I want to use.  This fits my style perfectly because I'm a constant "tweaker".  I was never happy with any other curricula because I felt I was either always boxed into it, or I didn't think it offered enough.  With TOG, I can tweak to my heart's content because there are so many choices.

 

Thanks so much for your time,  No problem!

Kathy

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to type out the example of breaking out the history for the week and also your schedule!  I really appreciate it!!  Brain Pop sounds like a really helpful resource.  I have seen it mentioned a lot but never looked into it.  I will have to do that.  My girls enjoy YT (thanks for the acronym, didn't realize that's what it was, lol!) videos and Usborne links to videos as well.  I think Brain Pop would be a nice addition to our day if we were able to get everything else in order.  Are the activities online, or something else?

 

When you say you didn't bother with the read-aloud, is that the literature for the week, or is that part of the history?  If it's the literature, does that mean you didn't do anything for the literature blocks for the week?

 

It's really helpful to see how you pick and choose, and the freedom that comes with that. :)

 

It is really nice that you have that planning time consistently every week.  We have dance, but it is chaotic because of my girls switching in and out of classes, and my younger dd still needs me to help her with switching shoes, getting snack, going to the restroom, that kind of thing.  Maybe in a few years I can use that time for planning, although there isn't a good quiet spot there.  Maybe my car. :)

 

My older dd would do tons of art on her own if I would carve out more time for that.  We finish so late in the day that she doesn't get the free time she needs.  It has been a hard adjustment trying to teach two.  I'm hoping it will get better from here on out.

 

Thanks for explaining how you handled the geography vocabulary in UG.  I'll have to look up studystack.com.  You are so resourceful! :)  Are the geography maps numbered where it tells you which one to pull for the week, or is it just a set that you look through to find the ones you need?

 

I have seen Onenote mentioned a lot but haven't explored it, either.  Is it a program you have to download/purchase?  I feel like my girls need to learn how to use it.

 

So looking at your schedule, as far as TOG materials go, you are doing:

 

M - History (1 hr), Geography (30 min), Literature (45 min) - the Philosophy wasn't TOG, was it?

Tu - nothing

Wed - History (1 hr), Geography (30 min), Literature (45 min)

Th - Church history (45 min)

Fri - History (1 hr), Literature (45 min), Church history (45 min)

 

Do I have that right?  Just trying to get a feel for approx. total for the week for 6th grade (approx. 7 hrs, 45 min, the equivalent of about 1.5 hrs a day for 5 days?).

 

What are you using for Bible?  Part of our problem has been doing two Bible courses, two histories, two read-alouds, two sciences, etc., and all of those 5 days a week.  I think we can try to combine at least in Bible next year.  I need to streamline as much as possible.

 

Thanks for addressing the spine issue.  So, is there a main book used for the UG level as well, or does that start more in the D level?  Is there one for each year, or is it only in year 3?

 

Thanks again for all the specifics!  It really helps to hear the details of how you implement TOG.  I don't feel pressured to use it, no worries. :)  Even if we don't end up using it, I'm sure this info. will be helpful to others who will read this!  I bought Love the Journey not long ago and am going to bump it up on my list of books to read.  I think it will help me get to know the author better and her perspective on things, and that will give me a better feel for TOG overall and if it might be a good option for us.  I'm intimidated by it, but I'm also intrigued, so need to spend some more time with it.  I also need to look at the unit I got for free in January.  Every time I look at TOG, I understand it a little better.

 

Thanks again!!

Kathy

[Saddlemomma]

Thank you so much for taking the time to type out the example of breaking out the history for the week and also your schedule!  I really appreciate it!!  Brain Pop sounds like a really helpful resource.  I have seen it mentioned a lot but never looked into it.  I will have to do that.  My girls enjoy YT (thanks for the acronym, didn't realize that's what it was, lol!) videos and Usborne links to videos as well.  I think Brain Pop would be a nice addition to our day if we were able to get everything else in order.  Are the activities online, or something else?

 

When you say you didn't bother with the read-aloud, is that the literature for the week, or is that part of the history?  If it's the literature, does that mean you didn't do anything for the literature blocks for the week?  It was the read-aloud history book for that week.

 

It's really helpful to see how you pick and choose, and the freedom that comes with that. :)

 

It is really nice that you have that planning time consistently every week.  We have dance, but it is chaotic because of my girls switching in and out of classes, and my younger dd still needs me to help her with switching shoes, getting snack, going to the restroom, that kind of thing.  Maybe in a few years I can use that time for planning, although there isn't a good quiet spot there.  Maybe my car. :)

 

My older dd would do tons of art on her own if I would carve out more time for that.  We finish so late in the day that she doesn't get the free time she needs.  It has been a hard adjustment trying to teach two.  I'm hoping it will get better from here on out.  I sympathize with you.  I couldn't imagine doing two at once.  I'm used to just one...lol. I'm in awe of those with large families. I do babysit a toddler on M, W, F.  Now that he is 2 1/2, it's getting really hard to have him, teach DD, and have DH working in his office at home.  He is tremendously challenging and distracting to DH and DD. This little guy is extremely smart (I wouldn't be surprised to learn he was gifted), is seriously testing boundaries, and constantly doing things he knows he's not supposed to do and then smiling and looking at you while doing it.  His parents don't believe in any punishment other than a short time out, and he knows that.  It's so frustrating.  I may have to give him up next year because of this.

 

Thanks for explaining how you handled the geography vocabulary in UG.  I'll have to look up studystack.com.  You are so resourceful! :)  I'm not sure I'm resourceful--maybe desperate out of necessity?  Anyway, now that we're not doing the terms, I'm actually using the timeline events and people to know sections to build StudyStack. I add the new information each week.  DD has to review these online cards prior to each class.  She even takes quizzes on it. 

 

Are the geography maps numbered where it tells you which one to pull for the week, or is it just a set that you look through to find the ones you need?  I purchased the Map Aids component.  All the maps are color coded matching the colors for each level. 

 

I have seen Onenote mentioned a lot but haven't explored it, either.  Is it a program you have to download/purchase?  I feel like my girls need to learn how to use it.  It's a program that usually comes with the Microsoft operating system you purchase.  I have Windows 7 and it came with that.  There is a free version, but it's a limited version.

 

So looking at your schedule, as far as TOG materials go, you are doing:

 

M - History (1 hr), Geography (30 min), Literature (45 min) - the Philosophy wasn't TOG, was it? No.  We did Philosophy Adventures; a separate curriculum.

Tu - nothing

Wed - History (1 hr), Geography (30 min), Literature (45 min)

Th - Church history (45 min)

Fri - History (1 hr), Literature (45 min), Church history (45 min)

 

Do I have that right?  Just trying to get a feel for approx. total for the week for 6th grade (approx. 7 hrs, 45 min, the equivalent of about 1.5 hrs a day for 5 days?).  Yes, that's right.  Originally I had Lit and Church History at just 30M per class, but DD wanted more time so upped it on her own. Even with the added time, DD still gets done between 1:30 to 2:30.

 

What are you using for Bible?  Part of our problem has been doing two Bible courses, two histories, two read-alouds, two sciences, etc., and all of those 5 days a week.  I think we can try to combine at least in Bible next year.  I need to streamline as much as possible.  I think you could combine all of that.  Read the history selection out loud. Require a narration from the older and scale that back for the younger.  Read just one read-aloud to both. If you did something like Science in the Beginning or Christian Kids Explore (or some other multi-age curriculum) for science you could combine that as well.  It's just a matter of scaling down the work requirements for the younger child. 

 

For Bible, my DD prefers just picking a book of the Bible, then reading & discussing it together.  In addition, we fill out the GOAL Journal and Discovering Doctrine Journals from Simply Charlotte Mason curriculum.  We read one chapter each class, highlight those verses that apply to the journals and then transcribe them into the journals when we finish reading the chapter.  Again, this could be done for both kids.  Maybe the younger doesn't fill in the journals, but you could discuss with him/her how they apply.

 

Thanks for addressing the spine issue.  So, is there a main book used for the UG level as well,  or does that start more in the D level?  Is there one for each year, or is it only in year 3?  There's usually a main spine (could be one book or a few more - at the most 3) for each level for each year that I've seen so far. 

 

Thanks again for all the specifics!  It really helps to hear the details of how you implement TOG.  I don't feel pressured to use it, no worries. :)  Even if we don't end up using it, I'm sure this info. will be helpful to others who will read this!  I bought Love the Journey not long ago and am going to bump it up on my list of books to read.  I think it will help me get to know the author better and her perspective on things, and that will give me a better feel for TOG overall and if it might be a good option for us.  I'm intimidated by it, but I'm also intrigued, so need to spend some more time with it.  I also need to look at the unit I got for free in January.  Every time I look at TOG, I understand it a little better.  Glad to be of help.  I just didn't want you to think I'm trying to push you into TOG.  It's not a program for everyone.  I just never got that "fog" everyone talks about.  I think it's mainly because I just have the one and could ignore everything but the stuff for her level.  Plus it helps that I'm such a computer nerd and compulsive tweaker! 

 

Talking with you about TOG got me thinking, and this morning I asked DD what she would think if I told her we weren't going to do TOG anymore.  She got wide-eyed and said she wouldn't like school anymore.  That made me smile.  I assured her we would be sticking with it. 

 

It has taken us a very long time to find a program that works for us.  It wasn't simple.  So relax; it may take you some time to find what works for you and your kids.  The best thing I can say is don't be afraid to try different things, ditch what doesn't work and keep what does.  Be prepared for the times when you may like a program a lot but it doesn't mesh with your kids.  In that case, you may have to sacrifice your ideals in favor of what works for your kids (this happened to us with Memoria Press).  It's not as crucial to stick with one curricula for science and history as it is for, say, math. 

 

Thanks again!!

Kathy

 

[Saddlemomma]

You know, OP, I've been looking at Wayfarers curriculum too.  It looks like it might be right up your alley.  It's all scheduled out for you as far as what to do on what days, including science and math, art/composer studies.  You may want to take a look at it.  You can download a sample.

[Jennay]

Thanks, I've considered doing that. Or making Fridays a notebooking day for the first three weeks each month, and the last Friday a project day. I think I'd be okay with that through 8th grade, but then I want more guided output after that, like essay responses, that kind of thing. I'm not really looking for dictation. We get that in our spelling program, so we are good there.

 

I think having used HOD, I see the differences in skill building between SL and HOD. SL doesn't really add in the skill-building like HOD does, where the narrations ramp up over the years (from oral to oral and written, to summary and detailed, that kind of thing), the research increases, there is work with the vocabulary words, the mapwork increases, the drawing skills increase, the notebooking requires more details, and the overall independence increases (I don't want independence in history readings, though, another beef with HOD). SL seems lacking in that area once you've done HOD, and I just don't know if I'll be able to incorporate it the way I want to see it done without it being scheduled in for me. I also wish SL provided paper maps. The markable map gets so crowded toward the end of the year and if you are focused in on one area for most of the year, there is no more room to write and it is frustrating for you and your child. I like to keep a record of the mapwork, so don't want to erase it to make more room. I wish SL handled the mapping differently, or provided other options. I'm sure I could buy a set of maps on CD and figure it out, but I really need open-and-go. HOD schedules the maps for you.

Map Trek has integration guides to use with SL - and lesson plans to go with the maps at 3 different levels.

http://www.knowledgequestmaps.com/Integration-Guides.html

(FYI - the elementary American History schedules are reversed - the one labeled year 1 (Core D) is really year 2 (Core E).

[jer2911mom]

Thank you so much for taking the time to type out the example of breaking out the history for the week and also your schedule!  I really appreciate it!!  Brain Pop sounds like a really helpful resource.  I have seen it mentioned a lot but never looked into it.  I will have to do that.  My girls enjoy YT (thanks for the acronym, didn't realize that's what it was, lol!) videos and Usborne links to videos as well.  I think Brain Pop would be a nice addition to our day if we were able to get everything else in order.  Are the activities online, or something else?

 

When you say you didn't bother with the read-aloud, is that the literature for the week, or is that part of the history?  If it's the literature, does that mean you didn't do anything for the literature blocks for the week?  It was the read-aloud history book for that week.

 

It's really helpful to see how you pick and choose, and the freedom that comes with that.  :)

 

It is really nice that you have that planning time consistently every week.  We have dance, but it is chaotic because of my girls switching in and out of classes, and my younger dd still needs me to help her with switching shoes, getting snack, going to the restroom, that kind of thing.  Maybe in a few years I can use that time for planning, although there isn't a good quiet spot there.  Maybe my car.  :)

 

My older dd would do tons of art on her own if I would carve out more time for that.  We finish so late in the day that she doesn't get the free time she needs.  It has been a hard adjustment trying to teach two.  I'm hoping it will get better from here on out.  I sympathize with you.  I couldn't imagine doing two at once.  I'm used to just one...lol. I'm in awe of those with large families. I do babysit a toddler on M, W, F.  Now that he is 2 1/2, it's getting really hard to have him, teach DD, and have DH working in his office at home.  He is tremendously challenging and distracting to DH and DD. This little guy is extremely smart (I wouldn't be surprised to learn he was gifted), is seriously testing boundaries, and constantly doing things he knows he's not supposed to do and then smiling and looking at you while doing it.  His parents don't believe in any punishment other than a short time out, and he knows that.  It's so frustrating.  I may have to give him up next year because of this.

 

Thanks for explaining how you handled the geography vocabulary in UG.  I'll have to look up studystack.com.  You are so resourceful!  :)  I'm not sure I'm resourceful--maybe desperate out of necessity?  Anyway, now that we're not doing the terms, I'm actually using the timeline events and people to know sections to build StudyStack. I add the new information each week.  DD has to review these online cards prior to each class.  She even takes quizzes on it. 

 

Are the geography maps numbered where it tells you which one to pull for the week, or is it just a set that you look through to find the ones you need?  I purchased the Map Aids component.  All the maps are color coded matching the colors for each level. 

 

I have seen Onenote mentioned a lot but haven't explored it, either.  Is it a program you have to download/purchase?  I feel like my girls need to learn how to use it.  It's a program that usually comes with the Microsoft operating system you purchase.  I have Windows 7 and it came with that.  There is a free version, but it's a limited version.

 

So looking at your schedule, as far as TOG materials go, you are doing:

 

M - History (1 hr), Geography (30 min), Literature (45 min) - the Philosophy wasn't TOG, was it? No.  We did Philosophy Adventures; a separate curriculum.

Tu - nothing

Wed - History (1 hr), Geography (30 min), Literature (45 min)

Th - Church history (45 min)

Fri - History (1 hr), Literature (45 min), Church history (45 min)

 

Do I have that right?  Just trying to get a feel for approx. total for the week for 6th grade (approx. 7 hrs, 45 min, the equivalent of about 1.5 hrs a day for 5 days?).  Yes, that's right.  Originally I had Lit and Church History at just 30M per class, but DD wanted more time so upped it on her own. Even with the added time, DD still gets done between 1:30 to 2:30.

 

What are you using for Bible?  Part of our problem has been doing two Bible courses, two histories, two read-alouds, two sciences, etc., and all of those 5 days a week.  I think we can try to combine at least in Bible next year.  I need to streamline as much as possible.  I think you could combine all of that.  Read the history selection out loud. Require a narration from the older and scale that back for the younger.  Read just one read-aloud to both. If you did something like Science in the Beginning or Christian Kids Explore (or some other multi-age curriculum) for science you could combine that as well.  It's just a matter of scaling down the work requirements for the younger child. 

 

For Bible, my DD prefers just picking a book of the Bible, then reading & discussing it together.  In addition, we fill out the GOAL Journal and Discovering Doctrine Journals from Simply Charlotte Mason curriculum.  We read one chapter each class, highlight those verses that apply to the journals and then transcribe them into the journals when we finish reading the chapter.  Again, this could be done for both kids.  Maybe the younger doesn't fill in the journals, but you could discuss with him/her how they apply.

 

Thanks for addressing the spine issue.  So, is there a main book used for the UG level as well,  or does that start more in the D level?  Is there one for each year, or is it only in year 3?  There's usually a main spine (could be one book or a few more - at the most 3) for each level for each year that I've seen so far. 

 

Thanks again for all the specifics!  It really helps to hear the details of how you implement TOG.  I don't feel pressured to use it, no worries.  :)  Even if we don't end up using it, I'm sure this info. will be helpful to others who will read this!  I bought Love the Journey not long ago and am going to bump it up on my list of books to read.  I think it will help me get to know the author better and her perspective on things, and that will give me a better feel for TOG overall and if it might be a good option for us.  I'm intimidated by it, but I'm also intrigued, so need to spend some more time with it.  I also need to look at the unit I got for free in January.  Every time I look at TOG, I understand it a little better.  Glad to be of help.  I just didn't want you to think I'm trying to push you into TOG.  It's not a program for everyone.  I just never got that "fog" everyone talks about.  I think it's mainly because I just have the one and could ignore everything but the stuff for her level.  Plus it helps that I'm such a computer nerd and compulsive tweaker!

 

Talking with you about TOG got me thinking, and this morning I asked DD what she would think if I told her we weren't going to do TOG anymore.  She got wide-eyed and said she wouldn't like school anymore.  That made me smile.  I assured her we would be sticking with it. 

 

It has taken us a very long time to find a program that works for us.  It wasn't simple.  So relax; it may take you some time to find what works for you and your kids.  The best thing I can say is don't be afraid to try different things, ditch what doesn't work and keep what does.  Be prepared for the times when you may like a program a lot but it doesn't mesh with your kids.  In that case, you may have to sacrifice your ideals in favor of what works for your kids (this happened to us with Memoria Press).  It's not as crucial to stick with one curricula for science and history as it is for, say, math.

 

Thanks again!!

Kathy

Thanks again for all of this info.!  So are the history books considered read-alouds at the grammar levels, and the literature as readers?  Do you still do it that way in dialectic?

 

So are the MapAids maps just color-coded by level, or does it also specifically tell you which map to pull for the week for your level?

 

We've done some Memoria Press, too. :)  I use the recitation, read-alouds, art cards, and music lists for K-2 and that has worked well.

[jer2911mom]

You know, OP, I've been looking at Wayfarers curriculum too.  It looks like it might be right up your alley.  It's all scheduled out for you as far as what to do on what days, including science and math, art/composer studies.  You may want to take a look at it.  You can download a sample.

 

Thanks, I took a look at it.  I didn't know it was available.  Being very visual, the font made my eyes hurt, lol.  I didn't see discussion questions and lit sheets, but I may have missed it.  It looked mostly like a schedule with some background info. and art integrated?  It definitely has a TOG look to it but with a daily schedule.  I think I'd prefer TOG over it.  Are you considering it?

[jer2911mom]

Map Trek has integration guides to use with SL - and lesson plans to go with the maps at 3 different levels.

http://www.knowledgequestmaps.com/Integration-Guides.html

(FYI - the elementary American History schedules are reversed - the one labeled year 1 (Core D) is really year 2 (Core E).

 

Thank you!  I forgot they had these free integration guides.  It looks like the SL one for elem. world history is a little outdated, but I think could still be useful.  The lessons plans are nice.  I felt the 5th grade work was a lot, but we could tweak that to meet our needs.  Thanks for the head's up on the American History schedules being reversed.  I can see that by looking at the topics.

 

I have to compare this with HOD, which uses MapTrek and schedules it all out for you.  If only I could combine HOD with SL notes all the way through. :)

 

Kathy

[Saddlemomma]

Thanks again for all of this info.!  So are the history books considered read-alouds at the grammar levels, and the literature as readers?  Do you still do it that way in dialectic? The core history books  are usually read independently by UG, Dialectic, & Rhetoric students.  You can read them aloud if you wish, as DD and I do because I want to learn with her.  The LG core books can be read aloud or independently depending upon whether or not the child has the ability.  The suggested read-alouds are for all levels except Rhetoric.  They are considered as part of the "in-depth" history books.

 

So are the MapAids maps just color-coded by level, or does it also specifically tell you which map to pull for the week for your level?  The maps are color-coded as follows: red-Lower Grammar; gold-Upper Grammar; green-Dialectic; blue-Rhetoric.  There is also a key to reflect the color coding at the bottom of the page.

 

We've done some Memoria Press, too. :)  I use the recitation, read-alouds, art cards, and music lists for K-2 and that has worked well.  We used MP's Latina Christiana. However, DD didn't like First Form so we switched to Visual Latin which she much prefers.

 

I started out 5th grade using MP's 5th grade package.  Dd quickly came to the conclusion that she hated all the workbooks.  She would be happy if she never saw another workbook in her life.  At the time, I also had a free sample of TOG for the same time period of history.  Needing something as an alternative, I switched to that TOG unit.  Well, we've never looked back.  DD fell in love with TOG.  I purchased the rest of last year unit-by-unit.  So, we've only done TOG for two years (we only have 9 1/2 weeks of school left.).  I've already purchased TOG Y4 for next year.  We'll have a gap year in 8th where we'll ditch formal history and concentrate on geography more and do some interest-led history units.  DD has already expressed an interest in learning more about the Celts and Druids.

 

I don't have any plans of leaving TOG for Wayfarers.  I just happen to be a curricula junky and like to look at a lot of things -- especially if they're new and shiny :laugh: .  However, I'm also intrigued by the Charlotte Mason style.  I'm thinking of streamlining TOG to make it more of a CM-type learning experience.  I've been downloading samples of Wayfarers to compare with TOG and see how I could do this.  I really like TOG's book selections and their classes.  I  think I could select fewer books and streamline the process to make it more comparable to CM.  There was a thread on this forum that linked to an individual's blog who did just this - making TOG more CM.  I read that too and now I'm trying to do that for our TOG next year.  This way we'll be able to go deeper with fewer books.  I may even be able to salvage some time to do more art/music history this way.

 

[Saddlemomma]

Another thing about TOG which is helpful, and I don't use nearly enough is the Loom.  I was in the middle of our 5th grade year before I found out that the Grammar stages have History Response pages available to them to assist in writing.  Basically they are graphic organizers to help kids learn how to pick out details about what they've read -- beginning note-taking.

[jer2911mom]

Thanks again for all of this info.!  So are the history books considered read-alouds at the grammar levels, and the literature as readers?  Do you still do it that way in dialectic? The core history books  are usually read independently by UG, Dialectic, & Rhetoric students.  You can read them aloud if you wish, as DD and I do because I want to learn with her.  The LG core books can be read aloud or independently depending upon whether or not the child has the ability.  The suggested read-alouds are for all levels except Rhetoric.  They are considered as part of the "in-depth" history books.

 

So are the MapAids maps just color-coded by level, or does it also specifically tell you which map to pull for the week for your level?  The maps are color-coded as follows: red-Lower Grammar; gold-Upper Grammar; green-Dialectic; blue-Rhetoric.  There is also a key to reflect the color coding at the bottom of the page.

 

We've done some Memoria Press, too.  :)  I use the recitation, read-alouds, art cards, and music lists for K-2 and that has worked well.  We used MP's Latina Christiana. However, DD didn't like First Form so we switched to Visual Latin which she much prefers.

 

I started out 5th grade using MP's 5th grade package.  Dd quickly came to the conclusion that she hated all the workbooks.  She would be happy if she never saw another workbook in her life.  At the time, I also had a free sample of TOG for the same time period of history.  Needing something as an alternative, I switched to that TOG unit.  Well, we've never looked back.  DD fell in love with TOG.  I purchased the rest of last year unit-by-unit.  So, we've only done TOG for two years (we only have 9 1/2 weeks of school left.).  I've already purchased TOG Y4 for next year.  We'll have a gap year in 8th where we'll ditch formal history and concentrate on geography more and do some interest-led history units.  DD has already expressed an interest in learning more about the Celts and Druids.

 

I don't have any plans of leaving TOG for Wayfarers.  I just happen to be a curricula junky and like to look at a lot of things -- especially if they're new and shiny  :laugh: .  However, I'm also intrigued by the Charlotte Mason style.  I'm thinking of streamlining TOG to make it more of a CM-type learning experience.  I've been downloading samples of Wayfarers to compare with TOG and see how I could do this.  I really like TOG's book selections and their classes.  I  think I could select fewer books and streamline the process to make it more comparable to CM.  There was a thread on this forum that linked to an individual's blog who did just this - making TOG more CM.  I read that too and now I'm trying to do that for our TOG next year.  This way we'll be able to go deeper with fewer books.  I may even be able to salvage some time to do more art/music history this way.

 

Thanks, what I mean about the maps is does it say in Week 1 to go pull the map on page xyz for this particular week, or do you have to figure out which one in your level to use?  I'm wondering how detailed the instructions are.

 

Have you ever looked at Heart of Dakota?  It is CM. :)

[jer2911mom]

Another thing about TOG which is helpful, and I don't use nearly enough is the Loom.  I was in the middle of our 5th grade year before I found out that the Grammar stages have History Response pages available to them to assist in writing.  Basically they are graphic organizers to help kids learn how to pick out details about what they've read -- beginning note-taking.

 

Thanks, that's good to know about the History Response pages!

[Saddlemomma]

Thanks, what I mean about the maps is does it say in Week 1 to go pull the map on page xyz for this particular week, or do you have to figure out which one in your level to use?  I'm wondering how detailed the instructions are.  It tells you specifically, for each week, which map to use.

 

Have you ever looked at Heart of Dakota?  It is CM. :)  Thanks for the suggestion.  Yes, I have looked at it, however, some of the books used for high school, my DD has already used for upper grammar with TOG.  That concerns me a little; although some of the other books look really interesting. I really like the TOG's book selections and figure I can streamline them by just choosing the core history and maybe one In-Depth.  Plus, I already own 3  TOG years.  I only need to by Y1 to complete it and then I don't have to buy any programs for HS; just the books.  In addition, I'm thrilled with TOG's literature.  So, I think it will be more cost effective for me to just streamline TOG into what I want it to be: a mixture of classical and CM!  Plus - it will be fun to do!

 

[jer2911mom]

Thanks, what I mean about the maps is does it say in Week 1 to go pull the map on page xyz for this particular week, or do you have to figure out which one in your level to use?  I'm wondering how detailed the instructions are.  It tells you specifically, for each week, which map to use.

 

Have you ever looked at Heart of Dakota?  It is CM.  :)  Thanks for the suggestion.  Yes, I have looked at it, however, some of the books used for high school, my DD has already used for upper grammar with TOG.  That concerns me a little; although some of the other books look really interesting. I really like the TOG's book selections and figure I can streamline them by just choosing the core history and maybe one In-Depth.  Plus, I already own 3  TOG years.  I only need to by Y1 to complete it and then I don't have to buy any programs for HS; just the books.  In addition, I'm thrilled with TOG's literature.  So, I think it will be more cost effective for me to just streamline TOG into what I want it to be: a mixture of classical and CM!  Plus - it will be fun to do!

 

That's great that it tells you specifically what map to use for the week!  Thank you!

 

TOG will be at our convention this weekend, so I'm hoping to really explore it some more while I'm there.  Thanks again for all your helpful information!!

[tuesdayschild]

You might want to check out Biblioplan. We're very happy with the resources in combination with flexibility that we see in this program. 

2nding this.

 

(Not sure if it covers every base that you mentioned above though  :) )