AP Course Descriptions--College Board approval--HELP

[tabmtbc]

Has anybody with a high-school-age (or high school work level) child written an AP course description and/or syllabus and had the college board approve it? If you have, can you walk me through the process? I am specifically looking for AP Biology, AP Spanish Language, and AP English Lit for my daughter's transcript.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Tabitha

[bbunch6]

I went through the process for AP English Literature and Composition. It's a little time-consuming, but not that hard. There's lots of good information and actually four sample syllabi on the College Board AP website:

 

http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/courses/english_lit.html

 

I also googled "AP Literature Audit" and "AP Literature Syllabus" and found many that teachers have posted online. This was helpful, as well.

 

The first time I sent mine in, they sent it back with a request to add one minor aspect (I don't even remember what it was it was so trivial.) I added what they wanted, sent it back, and had approval within a few hours.

 

Thankfully, once you have a syllabus approved, you only have to resubmit the same syllabus each year, even if you change the syllabus.

 

If you have further questions, I'd be happy to help!

[Deb in NJ]

I have gone through the process for AP Physics B and AP Physics C (both sections), AP Macro and Micro, AP US Gov, AP French and AP Lit. The process is time consuming but very doable. As Bbunch6 mentioned above there is a great deal of information on their website and if you google.

 

College Board will typically have a list of suggested texts to use. I also will google (for example) best text to use for AP Macro Econ and will review each text to see which best fits our needs and College board's guidelines.

 

In the end I am glad I laid out the syllabus and now I want to do all my classes in that format (not just the AP's) because it lays your class out perfectly and makes the year so much easier.

 

I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

 

Deb in NJ

[FloridaLisa]

Has anybody with a high-school-age (or high school work level) child written an AP course description and/or syllabus and had the college board approve it? If you have, can you walk me through the process? I am specifically looking for AP Biology, AP Spanish Language, and AP English Lit for my daughter's transcript.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Tabitha

 

 

 

College Board should have sample syllabi for each course as well as mandatory course requirements. You can use the samples as your guide, especially if using the same text. Google will also generate many approved AP syllabi which you can use to see how yours measures up. One thing I did was to specifically tag the course requirements in a text box on the syllabus so that CB could literally check down the list. My syllabus was approved within an hour (even less I think?). I gave my students the syllabus without the text boxes. Re-approval each year is super easy if you are not altering b/c all you do at that point is just check that you're resubmitting the same syllabus.

 

 

Lisa

[Catwoman]

OK, please bear with me, because I'm going to ask an idiotic question.

 

You will know right away that I am new to the high school thing.

 

Why would you need to have an AP course that you designed, approved by the College Board? Why is it necessary? What are the benefits?

 

Sorry to be so clueless! :blush:

[regentrude]

Why would you need to have an AP course that you designed, approved by the College Board? Why is it necessary? What are the benefits?

 

If you want to label your course "AP" on the transcript, you must have the syllabus approved by the college board, since it is their registered trademark. The AP designation makes it clear that it is college level and demonstrates challenging coursework.

Some people get around this by simply labeling the course "xyz class with AP exam". However, as discussed in another thread, some schools insist on the student not only having successfully taken the AP exam to receive credit, but also require that the student has taken an actual AP class.

[Catwoman]

 

If you want to label your course "AP" on the transcript, you must have the syllabus approved by the college board, since it is their registered trademark. The AP designation makes it clear that it is college level and demonstrates challenging coursework.

Some people get around this by simply labeling the course "xyz class with AP exam". However, as discussed in another thread, some schools insist on the student not only having successfully taken the AP exam to receive credit, but also require that the student has taken an actual AP class.

 

 

Thank you!!! I'm still learning how all of this stuff works! :)

[Joan in GE]

Has anybody with a high-school-age (or high school work level) child written an AP course description and/or syllabus and had the college board approve it? If you have, can you walk me through the process? I am specifically looking for AP Biology, AP Spanish Language, and AP English Lit for my daughter's transcript.

 

 

Tabitha, if you tag this thread "ap audit" then you can click on that tag and get more info...It is the audit by the CB that validates the course you develop....You might want to even change the title of your thread since you really want to know how to do the audit process.

 

The CB is slowly changing their exams or some of them....In this thread it lists some of the recent and coming changes...Eg Spanish Literature is changing this year and Spanish Language is changing next year.

 

Be careful that you are not buying older books or looking at older syllabi for the ones that are changing...

 

The language syllabi are harder to develop than the math and science ones which can depend on simple books with a few extras (in my opinion anyway)....The new language exams have the emphasis on 'culture' not grammar.

 

I think it's a worthwhile experience as well as it makes me better prepared and gives me more ideas for teaching....

 

There have been some other threads about this that have lots of information...

Joan

[8filltheheart]

However, as discussed in another thread, some schools insist on the student not only having successfully taken the AP exam to receive credit, but also require that the student has taken an actual AP class.

 

Regentrude, can you link the thread that gives examples of where an actual "class" is required and not just a score. I have never encountered a single college website that does not address credit via AP test score. I would like to find out more about this and make calls to those specific schools.

 

[regentrude]

Regentrude, can you link the thread that gives examples of where an actual "class" is required and not just a score. I have never encountered a single college website that does not address credit via AP test score. I would like to find out more about this and make calls to those specific schools.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/468498-ap-course-descriptions-and-syllabi/

 

In Post #6, the OP writes about UA requiring AP classes.

 

(I have no knowledge about the school, just read the thread, and I am aware that you disagree. Since we are not doing any AP, i have not looked at any school websites with respect to this issue)

[8filltheheart]

 

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/468498-ap-course-descriptions-and-syllabi/

 

In Post #6, the OP writes about UA requiring AP classes.

 

(I have no knowledge about the school, just read the thread, and I am aware that you disagree. Since we are not doing any AP, i have not looked at any school websites with respect to this issue)

 

Ok, thanks. Yes, I do disagree with that claim. As with every school I have looked at, even at UA AP is considered credit ***by*** exam. There is no mention of "AP class" in order to receive credit. (actually UA extends far more credit than most schools I have previewed.

 

From UA's website:

CREDIT FOR EXAMINATION PERFORMANCE AND EXPERIENCE

 

Credit by examination and credit for several types of out-of-class experiences are recognized by The University of Alabama. The maximum credit obtainable through all programs by placement is 45 semester hours, including, but not limited to, Advanced Placement (AP); College Level Examination Program (CLEP) General and Subject Examinations; placement in English; placement/performance in foreign languages; credit for prior military service; United States Armed Forces Institute (USAFI); and Defense Activity for Nontraditional Education Support (DANTES) credit. Applicants must have their test scores sent directly to the Office of Undergraduate Admissions from the appropriate testing agency. No credit is awarded for performance on the American College Test (ACT) or the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). See the following tables for specific information on AP and CLEP credit.

[tabmtbc]

Ok, thanks. Yes, I do disagree with that claim. As with every school I have looked at, even at UA AP is considered credit ***by*** exam. There is no mention of "AP class" in order to receive credit. (actually UA extends far more credit than most schools I have previewed.

 

From UA's website:

 

 

OK there are two different things that I meant here, and the 2 are getting mixed up.

 

Credit. Credit is by EXAM.

 

But SCHOLARSHIP CONSIDERATION....I was given to understand that when being considered for scholarships, UA looks for AP CLASSES and AP EXAMS on the transcript, along with a mixture of other things, depending on the student's intended major and the size and type of scholarship.

 

Tabitha

[8filltheheart]

 

 

OK there are two different things that I meant here, and the 2 are getting mixed up.

 

Credit. Credit is by EXAM.

 

But SCHOLARSHIP CONSIDERATION....I was given to understand that when being considered for scholarships, UA looks for AP CLASSES and AP EXAMS on the transcript, along with a mixture of other things, depending on the student's intended major and the size and type of scholarship.

 

Tabitha

 

Yes. I realized that, but was typing in a hurry while multi-tasking. I still can't imagine the course title making a difference. I might call UA later this week and ask an admission's officer directly. (too late, though, since ds took cal w/o an AP course. It wasn't even offered as an AP course since he took cal through AoPS. But again, he will have 4 semesters of college math beyond cal 1 and 2 and don't believe it will matter one way or the other.)

[Corraleno]

I was given to understand that when being considered for scholarships, UA looks for AP CLASSES and AP EXAMS on the transcript, along with a mixture of other things, depending on the student's intended major and the size and type of scholarship.

Tabitha

 

 

Do they weight grades for scholarship purposes? It may be that having the course officially listed on the transcript as "AP Biology" (versus "Biology w/AP exam") would provide an advantage when calculating GPA, since AP and DE classes are often given an extra point. I'm sure the ad coms would still pay attention to a good score on the exam, but maybe they don't give the extra point in calculating a weighted GPA if the course is not a "true" AP course on the transcript?

 

Jackie

[tabmtbc]

 

Do they weight grades for scholarship purposes? It may be that having the course officially listed on the transcript as "AP Biology" (versus "Biology w/AP exam") would provide an advantage when calculating GPA, since AP and DE classes are often given an extra point. I'm sure the ad coms would still pay attention to a good score on the exam, but maybe they don't give the extra point in calculating a weighted GPA if the course is not a "true" AP course on the transcript?

 

Jackie

 

 

At the public high schools in my area (and this was true when I was in high school a zillion years ago too--same area) regular classes are given 4 points in the GPA if an A is earned for the course. AP classes are given a 5, and Honors classes are given a 4.5, for A's, respecitvely. So yes, I would assume that makes a difference.

 

Tabitha

[snowbeltmom]

 

But SCHOLARSHIP CONSIDERATION....I was given to understand that when being considered for scholarships, UA looks for AP CLASSES and AP EXAMS on the transcript, along with a mixture of other things, depending on the student's intended major and the size and type of scholarship.

 

My son also has U of Alabama on his list. 8 if you call, can you post your findings?

According to Alabama's website, the only criteria used for the merit-based scholarships is the ACT or SAT score coupled with gpa. The website also states that these scholarships are automatically given to every admitted student who meets the score and gpa cut-off provided that the student applies within the stated deadline.

 

I have spoken with a handful of admissions officers about this issue, but not U of A. All that I have spoken to have said not to bother getting my courses approved by the College Board for their account because all they care about is the exam score.

 

My son will be taking three AP exams next year and I was not planning on having any of my classes approved by the CB. Maybe I will need to reconsider.

[tabmtbc]

My son also has U of Alabama on his list. 8 if you call, can you post your findings?

According to Alabama's website, the only criteria used for the merit-based scholarships is the ACT or SAT score coupled with gpa. The website also states that these scholarships are automatically given to every admitted student who meets the score and gpa cut-off provided that the student applies within the stated deadline.

 

I have spoken with a handful of admissions officers about this issue, but not U of A. All that I have spoken to have said not to bother getting my courses approved by the College Board for their account because all they care about is the exam score.

 

My son will be taking three AP exams next year and I was not planning on having any of my classes approved by the CB. Maybe I will need to reconsider.

 

See my comment about weighting for gpa in post 15.

Tabitha

[8filltheheart]

 

 

At the public high schools in my area (and this was true when I was in high school a zillion years ago too--same area) regular classes are given 4 points in the GPA if an A is earned for the course. AP classes are given a 5, and Honors classes are given a 4.5, for A's, respecitvely. So yes, I would assume that makes a difference.

 

Tabitha

 

If this is correct, homeschoolers are going to be at a significant disadvantage. Period. My understanding is that universities are not going to generally accept a "mommy transcript" with all courses labeled honors. As a matter of fact, I deliberately do NOT label courses honors, nor do I weight GPA, specifically b/c course descriptions and "whole picture" demonstrate precisely what has been accomplished.

 

I will try to call one day this week and ask. It also makes me laugh b/c of the ridiculousness of the possibility. I am sure that at schools like UA, a transcript with lists of AoPS courses might mean nothing to an admission's officer while at schools MIT, they will absolutely know what that means. So not labeling an AoPS course as "honors" or being able label it AP **might** (I'm not one to accept what I have't investigated myself) be given less "credit." Oh please. No way a standard AP course compares in difficulty to AoPS's cal course.

 

FWIW, my understanding about scholarships at UA are the same as Snowbeltmom's.

[Corraleno]

I agree about the rigor of AoPS compared to a standard AP class, but if colleges use a standard mathematical formula to calculate GPA, then adcoms may not have the discretionary power to just add an extra point if they think the course is "AP equivalent" (or better). It seems like that would open a real can of worms, especially if there are scholarships on the line.

 

I know that most colleges recalculate all the applicants' GPAs using their own system, but if they do give extra weight to AP/DE classes, then homeschoolers without "official" AP courses on the transcript may be missing out on points they deserve, if they've done the equivalent of an AP class. This is exactly why I plan to get some of our courses approved — a lot of the students applying to top colleges have GPAs well over 4.0, and unfortunately it's impossible to compete with that without APs and DEs on the transcript.

 

Jackie

[tabmtbc]

I agree about the rigor of AoPS compared to a standard AP class, but if colleges use a standard mathematical formula to calculate GPA, then adcoms may not have the discretionary power to just add an extra point if they think the course is "AP equivalent" (or better). It seems like that would open a real can of worms, especially if there are scholarships on the line.

 

I know that most colleges recalculate all the applicants' GPAs using their own system, but if they do give extra weight to AP/DE classes, then homeschoolers without "official" AP courses on the transcript may be missing out on points they deserve, if they've done the equivalent of an AP class. This is exactly why I plan to get some of our courses approved — a lot of the students applying to top colleges have GPAs well over 4.0, and unfortunately it's impossible to compete with that without APs and DEs on the transcript.

 

Jackie

 

I'm sorry but I must have missed something somewhere. AoPS? What is that please?

 

I can speak to weighting of classes directly. I took an AP English class back in the day, got an A in it, and it was given a 5 on a 4 point scale, both from my PS and at all the colleges to which I applied. As to what is done now, my dd has friends in PS (some of whom have parents who work for PS) who say the same--APs are 5, Honors are 4.5, and regular classes are 4 (for an A) when calculating GPA.

 

I have always known this to be the case. If something is different, I would be more than happy to be informed. I am as human as anyone walking the planet, and am always open to new information, especially when said information affects the direction I am guiding my child in.

 

Tabitha

[regentrude]

I'm sorry but I must have missed something somewhere. AoPS? What is that please?

 

Art of Problem Solving.

A very challenging math curriculum.

[Catwoman]

I'm glad you started this thread, Tabitha -- I hadn't known how this stuff works, so I'm learning a lot! :)

[8filltheheart]

double post

[8filltheheart]

 

 

I'm sorry but I must have missed something somewhere. AoPS? What is that please?

 

I can speak to weighting of classes directly. I took an AP English class back in the day, got an A in it, and it was given a 5 on a 4 point scale, both from my PS and at all the colleges to which I applied. As to what is done now, my dd has friends in PS (some of whom have parents who work for PS) who say the same--APs are 5, Honors are 4.5, and regular classes are 4 (for an A) when calculating GPA.

 

I have always known this to be the case. If something is different, I would be more than happy to be informed. I am as human as anyone walking the planet, and am always open to new information, especially when said information affects the direction I am guiding my child in.

 

Tabitha

 

Tabitha,

 

I think I should clarify my post. Yes, the weighting of grades by high schools is what you describe. However, most ad coms unweight grades and apply their own formula to transcripts. I would say that most of the college applications we have filled out requested unweighted GPAs, which is why I don't even bother weighting.

 

The other issue is honors title outside of the AP title. It means very little as a course title in relation to a homeschool transcript. For example, MUS has an "honors" designation that from my perspective barely meets a standard level. What is "honors"? At a high school, it means beyond what is done in the regular classroom. In the homeschool, it means compared to what? It is why ad coms repeatedly state that they appreciate course descriptions that accompany transcripts b/c it gives them something solid to compare to. Simply b/c you place the title honors on your transcript does not mean that the weight would remain.

 

FWIW, I am still not concerned about weight being more important than the over all picture in relation to how homeschoolers are evaluated. For ps students, the entire GPA issue is going to be far more of an issue. The GPA is in relation to other students in their school (general info about the school provided by the school in school profile), provides class ranking, shows level of challenge within an institution. Those are simply not applicable to homeschooled students. Moms are assigning grades. There is no class rank. Test scores and outside of home validation of prior level coursework is going to demonstrate just how challenging the coursework has been. (ETA: another piece of the puzzle I should have shared is that admission's officers also consider what course load students take in relation to their school. Some schools only offer a small # of APs. Some may offer 14 or more. Simply b/c a student does not have a long list of APs does not mean that they didn't take the most rigorous academic challenge available to them. Admissions knows this and does take it into consideration. I would assume the same is going to apply to scholarship applications or students of small schools with limited resources would not be able to compete against larger, more equipped schools' students.)

 

I'm not sure how scholarship committees deal with homeschoolers' applications, but it is definitely not going to apples to apples like they might approach traditional GPA/transcripts. FWIW, most scholarship applications we have encountered discuss using a holistic approach vs. strictly numbers......though I was under the impression that UA's scholarships were based on test scores.

[snowbeltmom]

From what I have been told in person, and from what I have read in admissions guide books, gpa is mainly used to evaluate and compare students that attend the same school. I have also been told that in the past, colleges went more by class rank than gpa. Now that many schools have eliminated class rank, the admissions committees evaluate all applicants based first on standardized test scores, strength of transcript, and then gpa. For homeschoolers, standardized test scores carry even more weight than the traditionally schooled kids.

 

Here is the criteria for the top scholarship awarded at the U of A for out-of-state students: (bolded is U of A's)

 

"PRESIDENTIAL SCHOLAR

An out-of-state first-time freshman student who meets the December 1st scholarship priority deadline, has a 32-36 ACT or 1400-1600 SAT score [critical reading and math scores only] and at least a 3.5 cumulative GPA will be selected as a Presidential Scholar and will receive the value of out-of-state tuition* for four years."

An unweighted gpa of 3.5 is certainly more than attainable with a student with those standardized test scores. This scholarship is guaranteed to all admitted students who meet the December 1st deadline.

[tabmtbc]

Tabitha,

 

I think I should clarify my post. Yes, the weighting of grades by high schools is what you describe. However, most ad coms unweight grades and apply their own formula to transcripts. I would say that most of the college applications we have filled out requested unweighted GPAs, which is why I don't even bother weighting.

 

The other issue is honors title outside of the AP title. It means very little as a course title in relation to a homeschool transcript. For example, MUS has an "honors" designation that from my perspective barely meets a standard level. What is "honors"? At a high school, it means beyond what is done in the regular classroom. In the homeschool, it means compared to what? It is why ad coms repeatedly state that they appreciate course descriptions that accompany transcripts b/c it gives them something solid to compare to. Simply b/c you place the title honors on your transcript does not mean that the weight would remain.

 

FWIW, I am still not concerned about weight being more important than the over all picture in relation to how homeschoolers are evaluated. For ps students, the entire GPA issue is going to be far more of an issue. The GPA is in relation to other students in their school (general info about the school provided by the school in school profile), provides class ranking, shows level of challenge within an institution. Those are simply not applicable to homeschooled students. Moms are assigning grades. There is no class rank. Test scores and outside of home validation of prior level coursework is going to demonstrate just how challenging the coursework has been. (ETA: another piece of the puzzle I should have shared is that admission's officers also consider what course load students take in relation to their school. Some schools only offer a small # of APs. Some may offer 14 or more. Simply b/c a student does not have a long list of APs does not mean that they didn't take the most rigorous academic challenge available to them. Admissions knows this and does take it into consideration. I would assume the same is going to apply to scholarship applications or students of small schools with limited resources would not be able to compete against larger, more equipped schools' students.)

 

I'm not sure how scholarship committees deal with homeschoolers' applications, but it is definitely not going to apples to apples like they might approach traditional GPA/transcripts. FWIW, most scholarship applications we have encountered discuss using a holistic approach vs. strictly numbers......though I was under the impression that UA's scholarships were based on test scores.

 

OK I see what you mean and I agree to a large extent. So much of this whole college and scholarship thing can come under the generic but appropriate answer, "It depends what college you want to go/apply to."

 

Tabitha

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

 

I'm sorry but I must have missed something somewhere. AoPS? What is that please?

 

I can speak to weighting of classes directly. I took an AP English class back in the day, got an A in it, and it was given a 5 on a 4 point scale, both from my PS and at all the colleges to which I applied. As to what is done now, my dd has friends in PS (some of whom have parents who work for PS) who say the same--APs are 5, Honors are 4.5, and regular classes are 4 (for an A) when calculating GPA.

 

I have always known this to be the case. If something is different, I would be more than happy to be informed. I am as human as anyone walking the planet, and am always open to new information, especially when said information affects the direction I am guiding my child in.

 

Tabitha

 

 

I think grade weighting depends on school district. My local, highly ranked district doesn't give the same extra weight that the highly ranked district across the river does. It was actually a topic in the last school board elections.

 

I can't say what all colleges do with weighting official AP classes. I know there has been a lot of reporting about schools with many students in AP courses who don't have strong passing score rates on average. And more colleges are upping the credit requirement to 4-5 on the exam because students with 3 and lower aren't doing so well in their college courses.

 

So I would expect some skepticism. The line I've always took to heart is that they look for students who do well with the most challenging courses available. For some that may be AP. But not for all. It's my own bias that I'd be more impressed with a student who earned a 4-5 without all the surrounding structure of an official AP course. (I'm pulling together a syllabus for government and one syllabus I looked at said up front that the teacher would type up notes from the text so the class could move on to discussion and not lecture. I thought the desire to not just lecture was fine but wondered why "college students" weren't expected to read their own text and take their own notes. Sigh.

[tabmtbc]

I think grade weighting depends on school district. My local, highly ranked district doesn't give the same extra weight that the highly ranked district across the river does. It was actually a topic in the last school board elections.

 

I can't say what all colleges do with weighting official AP classes. I know there has been a lot of reporting about schools with many students in AP courses who don't have strong passing score rates on average. And more colleges are upping the credit requirement to 4-5 on the exam because students with 3 and lower aren't doing so well in their college courses.

 

So I would expect some skepticism. The line I've always took to heart is that they look for students who do well with the most challenging courses available. For some that may be AP. But not for all. It's my own bias that I'd be more impressed with a student who earned a 4-5 without all the surrounding structure of an official AP course. (I'm pulling together a syllabus for government and one syllabus I looked at said up front that the teacher would type up notes from the text so the class could move on to discussion and not lecture. I thought the desire to not just lecture was fine but wondered why "college students" weren't expected to read their own text and take their own notes. Sigh.

 

I hear ya.

All of the following is word-of-mouth reported, mostly on the part of students and at least one parent. I have no direct knowledge or verification, but I've been told (from various parties):

*"My son is having trouble in his regular classes in middle school and needs extra help. But yet, when he gets to high school next year, they want him to take AP?!?!"

*"Our school doesn't have any advanced classes, only regular ones, and I'm so bored."

*"Our school doesn't really have very many regular classes. There is a big push for EVERYONE to be in AP. It seems like everyone is either in AP or remedial."

 

 

Now of course word of mouth can be inaccurate, and as I said, I have no direct knowledge of these things--just things I've been told in passing and have not verified. But if true, these comments would exhibit the vast differences between one school/school system and another which can exist.

 

Tabitha

[Sebastian (a lady)]

 

 

I hear ya.

All of the following is word-of-mouth reported, mostly on the part of students and at least one parent. I have no direct knowledge or verification, but I've been told (from various parties):

*"My son is having trouble in his regular classes in middle school and needs extra help. But yet, when he gets to high school next year, they want him to take AP?!?!"

*"Our school doesn't have any advanced classes, only regular ones, and I'm so bored."

*"Our school doesn't really have very many regular classes. There is a big push for EVERYONE to be in AP. It seems like everyone is either in AP or remedial."

 

 

Now of course word of mouth can be inaccurate, and as I said, I have no direct knowledge of these things--just things I've been told in passing and have not verified. But if true, these comments would exhibit the vast differences between one school/school system and another which can exist.

 

Tabitha

 

My local district has two types of high school. One does International Baccalaureate and the other offers AP. At AP schools there was only a choice between "regular" and AP. There were no high school level honors courses offered. This was also a topic of the school board race.

 

They announced that they would offer honors courses at these schools if there was enough dand for them. And here is where I see the catch. This is a county with about half the Super Zips in the country. What well educated parent is going to want to register their kid for just honors when an AP heavy load has been the norm? Won't they worry that this was an admission that their kid couldn't hack the harder class? Won't this be seen as self selecting for access to lesser colleges by being seen not to have taken the most challenging on offer?

 

I'm not sure how many takers they will have. And College Board has a policy that criteria to qualify for an AP course is wrong because it limits access. No comment on what it does to kids who were read for challenging high school work and got a college level course instead. (I know there are doubts that AP is really college level. I share them. But it's also not trying to be on level for college prep students who are still in the prep stage. )