ap course descriptions AP course descriptions and syllabi

[tabmtbc]

Has anybody with a high-school-age (or high school work level) gifted child written an AP course description and/or syllabus and had the college board approve it? If you have, can you walk me through the process? I am specifically looking for AP Biology, AP Spanish Language, and AP English Lit for my daughter's transcript.

 

Thanks,

Tabitha

[Luckymama]

Have you read the samples on the college board website?

 

I'm going to be submitting syllabi for physics and for human geography for next fall. I printed out the sample syllabi for each and have been choosing textbooks. From what I've read on the high school board and on the hs2coll yahoo group, the AP Course Audit (that's the approval process, for others reading) is pretty straight-forward. Some have received approval within a day!

 

You could also ask this question on the high school board :) EDIT--I see you did :lol:

[8filltheheart]

I have never submitted course descriptions for approval. When I write their transcripts, I label the course "xyz with AP exam." Then in the course description, I describe the level of work. On the right-hand side of their transcript, I have a section which includes all of their test scores, including APs.

 

HTH

[Kathy G]

Could someone fill me in on why we should want to do this? I just have my transcript say course name with AP exam- much like 8 fill the heart. It is my understanding that they can take any AP exam they want so I am not sure of the benefit of the class listed as AP. Is there something I am missing? We are only at 8th grade so I haven' had too much experience with this yet.

[8filltheheart]

Could someone fill me in on why we should want to do this? I just have my transcript say course name with AP exam- much like 8 fill the heart. It is my understanding that they can take any AP exam they want so I am not sure of the benefit of the class listed as AP. Is there something I am missing? We are only at 8th grade so I haven' had too much experience with this yet.

 

 

Well, obviously I haven't seen an advantage to doing it which is why I haven't. I would be interested in knowing the why behind it being important for a homeschooled student. (I understand the need for institutions.)

[tabmtbc]

Could someone fill me in on why we should want to do this? I just have my transcript say course name with AP exam- much like 8 fill the heart. It is my understanding that they can take any AP exam they want so I am not sure of the benefit of the class listed as AP. Is there something I am missing? We are only at 8th grade so I haven' had too much experience with this yet.

 

 

Actually, I can fill you in.

My daughter wants to go to University of Alabama, and UA has its own ways of thinking about things, rules, etc., for EVERYTHING. In talking with some contacts, my understanding is the greatest scholarship considerations are given for kids who have actually taken AP exams WITH AP-approved classes. In the world of competitive scholarship consideration at that particular school, 1st is AP, 2nd is CLEP, and 3rd is dual enrollment when they look at your high school stuff. Couple AP classes and exams with SERIOUS SAT or ACT scores, and you have the recipe for good scholarship consideration.

 

My understanding also is (and someone may correct me if I am wrong) that the penalty for listing a class as AP without getting it approved is potential jail time and a fine, because AP is a registered trademark of the College Board.

 

Tabitha

[8filltheheart]

Actually, I can fill you in.

My daughter wants to go to University of Alabama, and UA has its own ways of thinking about things, rules, etc., for EVERYTHING. In talking with some contacts, my understanding is the greatest scholarship considerations are given for kids who have actually taken AP exams WITH AP-approved classes. In the world of competitive scholarship consideration at that particular school, 1st is AP, 2nd is CLEP, and 3rd is dual enrollment when they look at your high school stuff. Couple AP classes and exams with SERIOUS SAT or ACT scores, and you have the recipe for good scholarship consideration.

 

My understanding also is (and someone may correct me if I am wrong) that the penalty for listing a class as AP without getting it approved is potential jail time and a fine, because AP is a registered trademark of the College Board.

 

Tabitha

 

 

UA is one of the schools our ds will be applying to and I am absolutely NOT concerned about the AP label vs. non-label. When it comes to homeschoolers, course descriptions are going to matter across the board.

 

You are correct about labeling a course as AP xyz. However, labeling a course as "xyz with AP exam" is not claiming it was college-board approved, simply that the AP exam was taken at the completion of the course.

 

Also, I question your list's order of importance as AP, CLEP, and then dual enrollment. I would suggest that it depends. Our ds will have completed several 200/300 level university courses when he applies. I would strongly suspect that 300 level physics and 200 level math courses would be viewed as a more significant achievement than either AP or CLEP. (and typically, I don't know about UA, CLEP is not very well regarded as a significant achievement.)

[tabmtbc]

UA is one of the schools our ds will be applying to and I am absolutely NOT concerned about the AP label vs. non-label. When it comes to homeschoolers, course descriptions are going to matter across the board.

 

You are correct about labeling a course as AP xyz. However, labeling a course as "xyz with AP exam" is not claiming it was college-board approved, simply that the AP exam was taken at the completion of the course.

 

Also, I question your list's order of importance as AP, CLEP, and then dual enrollment. I would suggest that it depends. Our ds will have completed several 200/300 level university courses when he applies. I would strongly suspect that 300 level physics and 200 level math courses would be viewed as a more significant achievement than either AP or CLEP. (and typically, I don't know about UA, CLEP is not very well regarded as a significant achievement.)

 

My info came directly from one of my known contacts on campus. Of course I may have misunderstood, and I will keep researching. You may be right. I will file away your comments and keep researching.

 

There is a brochure they handed out to all the kids when dd was on campus for a function that basically said, "Also, list ALL the math and science you can, even if you are NOT going into a math/science major."

 

UA has its OWN philosophy about ALMOST everything. As a parent I talked to whose child is currently on campus said, "The thing is, everything about UA has gotten extremely competitive in almost every department. In my impression, they are trying to be #1 in the country in everything they can." Maybe not the parent's exact words, but that was the sentiment. Even the director of our homeschool umbrella, whose own daughter went to UA, agrees that UA has its own philosophy about almost everything. Things that will work at one university will NOT necessarily work at UA. For example, they accept almost every CLEP, AP , IB, dual enrollment, etc. etc., but NOT AP Music Theory or any transfer music theory credits. I was recently on campus and one of the kids was telling another potential student a story that she had transferred from XXXXX (very prestigious school with an outstanding music program) because she wanted to major in a particular thing in the music department at UA and study under a particular person. When she went to transfer, if I understood her correctly, she lost a ton of her credits because they wanted her to take those classes IN HOUSE, so it added quite a bit of time to her education that she hadn't anticipated--at least that was my understanding and impression.

 

My point is--in my research, I'm finding that what is "typically done" at most universities is not necessarily what is done at UA. So do your research so you don't get surprised.

 

My daughter is only a freshman and does not qualify for dual enrollemnt in our state yet anyway. I contacted the local community college, and though they will let her dual enroll in the 10th grade, they will NOT let her dual enroll until she is 16. She will be 16 a year from now (I need to change my siggy) and they will not make ANY exceptions to this, even for online classes for which she will not be stepping foot on campus, even though she's been in DUKE TIP, away from home, on many different college campuses for different reasons. I don't want to put off accruing her college credits just because of a technicality, and as you stated, CLEP doesn't seem to be very highly regarded, so AP is the only avenue left open to me at the moment.

 

Tabitha

[8filltheheart]

My info came directly from one of my known contacts on campus. Of course I may have misunderstood, and I will keep researching. You may be right. I will file away your comments and keep researching.

......

 

UA has its OWN philosophy about ALMOST everything.......When she went to transfer, if I understood her correctly, she lost a ton of her credits because they wanted her to take those classes IN HOUSE, so it added quite a bit of time to her education that she hadn't anticipated--at least that was my understanding and impression.

 

..... So do your research so you don't get surprised.

 

 

 

Unless you spoke directly with admission officers and those responsible for making the scholarship awards, I would contact those depts directly. It is not a logical jump to state AP title means more than AP score or course w/o AP label when across the country high percentages of students taking AP labeled courses are making As yet scoring 1s and 2s on the exams. It is one of the reasons that some universities are questioning the validity of AP courses. All universities "should be" aware of this trend.

 

The 2nd paragraph is typical of a lot of schools. Many universities won't accept any transfer credits at all. Even within a single university system, some courses may or may not transfer. Talking with the dean of individual depts will give you the most accurate information vs. admissions.

 

As far as the 3rd......I have a limit to what hoops I am willing to jump through. Ds is a very strong student with very strong credentials. If AP xyz means more than xyz with AP exam when looking at the over all applicant, I would question the the process and the school and move on to a school that focuses on the individual vs. a label.

 

FWIW, you may find universities easier to deal with vs. community colleges. We have managed to have universities alter their admissions process for ds when we have been able to demonstrate that his educational needs cannot be dealt with elsewhere. (he had already completed AP level work which meant he needed college level courses.)

[tabmtbc]

Unless you spoke directly with admission officers and those responsible for making the scholarship awards, I would contact those depts directly. It is not a logical jump to state AP title means more than AP score or course w/o AP label when across the country high percentages of students taking AP labeled courses are making As yet scoring 1s and 2s on the exams. It is one of the reasons that some universities are questioning the validity of AP courses. All universities "should be" aware of this trend.

 

The 2nd paragraph is typical of a lot of schools. Many universities won't accept any transfer credits at all. Even within a single university system, some courses may or may not transfer. Talking with the dean of individual depts will give you the most accurate information vs. admissions.

 

As far as the 3rd......I have a limit to what hoops I am willing to jump through. Ds is a very strong student with very strong credentials. If AP xyz means more than xyz with AP exam when looking at the over all applicant, I would question the the process and the school and move on to a school that focuses on the individual vs. a label.

 

FWIW, you may find universities easier to deal with vs. community colleges. We have managed to have universities alter their admissions process for ds when we have been able to demonstrate that his educational needs cannot be dealt with elsewhere. (he had already completed AP level work which meant he needed college level courses.)

In the town we live in, there are only 2 possibilities for dual enrollment that I'm aware of. One is the local CC and one is the local university. For the CC, you have to be 10th grade AND 16. For the university, you must be 11th grade AND 16. When I say "and 16" I mean that age or older. I talked to them directly and no exceptions will be made from my understanding.

 

Tabitha

[8filltheheart]

In the town we live in, there are only 2 possibilities for dual enrollment that I'm aware of. One is the local CC and one is the local university. For the CC, you have to be 10th grade AND 16. For the university, you must be 11th grade AND 16. When I say "and 16" I mean that age or older. I talked to them directly and no exceptions will be made from my understanding.

 

Tabitha

 

When your child is ready, make an appointment with an admissions officer and take in all available info.....transcripts, test scores, letters of recommendation, whatever. We faced similar issues at 2 different universities.....one gave me an emphatic no on the phone. (they only allow high school srs to enroll at this particular university. The other school only allowed 2nd semester jrs up) I put together his complete "package" and received the answer, "I will meet with the admissions board." They did end up allowing him to attend. He now has the highest grade in one of the classes (it may even be both courses, jsut not sure about the other one) and just called me an hour ago to tell me he made an 99 on the exam he took last week. ;) Don't just take no as an answer w/o really pushing the issue. But, demonstrating level and the need for the courses is going to be your responsibility. That means that all high school level options have been completed. In ds's case, the CCs don't even offer the level of coursework he needs, so the universities have been our only option.