KISS grammar questions

[dancer67]

Could someone explain this to me in plain (no pun intended) English?

 

I am reading their website on how to use this program. But, from what I see, there is nothing past 6th grade. Is that correct?

 

It looks like they have the full program for 2, 4,6th grade? But others, may not be complete?

 

Maybe I am reading it wrong? Or maybe I am just plain tired.:tongue_smilie:

[Critterfixer]

I was over there last night getting second grade grammar for next year.

Aside from that it is difficult to get. I don't think he wants grammar started in a formal way until third grade. The levels do not actually correspond to grades.

There are some levels that are not complete yet. I think this mostly has to do with workbooks not being ready. It is a little confusing.

[Whereneverever]

:bigear:

[nansk]

The way I understand it, KISS Grammar is meant to have grade levels and KISS levels. There are six KISS levels and there are meant to be 10 Grade levels (from Gr 2 to Gr 11).

 

So a student can start KISS in any grade level and there will be KISS levels 1 to 6 for her grade level. Think of a two dimensional table.

 

Right now, not all levels are complete, but there is one grade level for each KISS level. So, a younger student can start in the KISS level one (which is for Grade 2) and proceed to the book for KISS level two (for a higher grade) the next year, then the KISS level three book (for a higher grade) and so on.

 

The way I see it, when Dr Vavra decided to use sentences from children's literature instead of made-up textbook sentences, this grade-wise division became inevitable. For instance, a fifth grader can do Growing with Grammar starting from GWG1 and moving up, but the fifth grader may not enjoy analyzing sentences from Bunny Rabbit's Diary (which is in KISS level one). She'd rather do KISS level one work using Stuart Little or Just So Stories.

 

..there is nothing past 6th grade..

The thing to remember is that KISS teaches at a higher level than most other grammar curricula. There are a lot of advanced concepts introduced in KISS level one. I read a post by Yvette (which I can't pull out now as the Search feature is not working) but this is what she also said.

So as long as you work from KISS level one to KISS level six, you will not need to work any higher. At that point, your student will be able to analyze her own sentences for correctness. That is what I think Dr Vavra also intended.

 

I would encourage you to join the Yahoo group and post your questions there. Dr Vavra and some experienced members will answer promptly.

 

HTH

[lewelma]

There is nothing past 6th grade because if you have done 2nd grade to 6th grade, your child will be able to identify every word/construction in any sentence ever written. You are done. I have heard of up to 7th graders starting on the 2nd grade booklet. It might use Peter Rabbit sentences, but the work is NOT easy.

 

My son loves this program and it is free! I just posted a long message on the logic board.

 

Ruth in NZ

[kwg]

We started KISS later in the year with 3rd grader and love it! Sometimes the sentences are hard for me :blush: so the AK is needed here.

[dancer67]

Ok. So if I have a 7th grader, I would start in second "grade", and start with KISS level 1.1 go through it, then go to third "grade" and start in KISS level 1.1?

 

I am trying to figure out how long(months, years), this takes if you start at the very begining and work through all the levels?

 

Am I making sense???:lol:

 

And I joined the yahoo group as well. Thank you!

[kwg]

I thought you could skip second completely and start with third. Or do the Master level books in order which are not grade level and might not be beatrix potter (I have no idea if a 7th grader would care either way. ).

[nansk]

So if I have a 7th grader, I would start in second "grade", and start with KISS level 1.1 go through it, then go to third "grade" and start in KISS level 1.1?

 

No. I believe the Grade 2 (level 1) printable book includes level 1.1 (and all the other sub-levels 1.x).

 

The Master Booklets are divided into sub-levels (1.1, 1.2 etc) but the grade-level Printable Books are all-in-one (i.e. they contain all the sub-levels for their level). Just print the grade-level printable books and use them. If you need extra explanation, then you can refer to the explanation in the Master Booklet for the specific sub-level you are looking at. Otherwise you don't need to do both (Master book and grade level printable book).

 

EDIT: Also, here is an adult-level self-paced course that covers all the levels.

Edited April 22, 2011 by nansk

[dancer67]

((sigh))

 

Maybe it is just me, but I am just not getting it.

 

I know this:

 

There are complete grades.

 

Then there are levels such as Level 1- 1.1,1.2,1.3............Level 2-1.1,1.2,1.3 etc.......

 

Why does this have to be so darn confusing?

 

So Do I start with a Level? Or a grade?

 

And how long does this grammar program take? A year? several?

 

Nobody is answering on my questions ont he yahoo group yet.:001_huh:

 

Thanks for your patience and understanding:auto:

[Critterfixer]

It's not just you.:001_huh:

I just hope I get it figured out by September.

[nansk]

There are complete grades.

 

Then there are levels such as Level 1- 1.1,1.2,1.3............Level 2-1.1,1.2,1.3 etc.......

 

Why does this have to be so darn confusing?

 

 

I agree it is confusing. I have decided to take it one year at a time.

 

So Do I start with a Level? Or a grade?

 

The grade level workbooks are complete (instruction, exercises and answer keys, all in the same document), so I'd suggest you print out the first one and work through it.

 

And how long does this grammar program take?

 

I think if you start from level 1 and work upwords one level a year, it should take 6 years.

 

Nobody is answering on my questions ont he yahoo group yet.

 

It is a long weekend. Hopefully you'll get some responses on Monday. Otherwise, I know a couple of forum members who have used this program for atleast a year (apart from Ruth in NZ who responded above). I will pm them next week.

[lewelma]

Go to the KISSgrammargroup in the yahoo groups and ask your questions. The author or one of the other users will help.

 

The website is confusing but it is worth an hour of your time to figure it out because it is an EXCELLENT program and is FREE!!!

 

I just wrote more over on the logic board side as they are having a kiss discussion also.

 

Ruth in NZ

[Amy Jo]

Forget the grades for now. Look at the levels, I assume you will start with KISS level 1. Choose one book close to your child's grade (it looks like there are complete books for grades 2, 3, and 6). After you finish your book for level 1 go back to KISS and look at Level 2 books. Choose one book for this level of KISS, again near your child's grade.

[nansk]

Amy, I've visited your blog often in the last few months hoping to read about your experience with KISS grammar. However, I guess you are busy actually teaching your children... :-P Do try to find some time over the summer if you can. :-)

[crazyforlatin]

I just looked at KISS grammar and I have the second grade workbook opened up in MS Word, but I can't find a teacher's manual except for this

for exercise 1. Is there are printable teacher's guide that is for the entire second grade level?

[crazyforlatin]

I just looked at KISS grammar and I have the second grade workbook opened up in MS Word, but I can't find a teacher's manual except for this

for exercise 1. Is there are printable teacher's guide that is for the entire second grade level?

 

Ok, I may have answered my own question. The answers are on the back of the workbook and I think the teacher's manual (Master Book) is at the bottom of the above link. I thought the Master Book was for self-studying using other exercises, but is that what you gals are using to teach?

[nansk]

I thought the Master Book was for self-studying using other exercises, but is that what you gals are using to teach?

 

For my first grader, I am using only the Gr 2 (Kiss Level 1) workbook. I also printed out the exercises from the Level 1.1. Master book, but I found that was overkill. The grade-level workbook has the instructional material, exercises and analysis keys. You will not need to print out anything else.

 

HTH

[crazyforlatin]

For my first grader, I am using only the Gr 2 (Kiss Level 1) workbook. I also printed out the exercises from the Level 1.1. Master book, but I found that was overkill. The grade-level workbook has the instructional material, exercises and analysis keys. You will not need to print out anything else.

 

HTH

 

Thank you. The instructions seem sparse for the student. For example for Gr.2, Level 1 workbook, page 8, the instructions are as follows:

 

Lesson: A sentence is based on a subject and verb. The subject is one or more words that name what the sentence is about. The verb makes a statement about the subject. It may state what the subject does, or what it is. (Note that “is,” “are,” “am,” “was,” and “were” are always verbs. Always underline them twice.)

 

I must be missing something here. What happened to identifying nouns and verbs first before identifying subjects and predicates? Or even definitions of parts of speech? The Masterbook, Level 1 has more instructions since it's for self-teaching, but it seems to be assuming some prior grammar experience.

Edited May 10, 2011 by crazyforlatin
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[mamachanse]

I just looked at KISS grammar and I have the second grade workbook opened up in MS Word, but I can't find a teacher's manual except for this

for exercise 1. Is there are printable teacher's guide that is for the entire second grade level?

 

:confused:I can't figure out how to get the second grade workbook open! Do you have to open each section separately or am I missing something?

[crazyforlatin]

:confused:I can't figure out how to get the second grade workbook open! Do you have to open each section separately or am I missing something?

 

This link has the MS Word link for the entire workbook.

[nansk]

Thank you. The instructions seem sparse for the student. For example for Gr.2, Level 1 workbook, page 8, the instructions are as follows:

 

Lesson: A sentence is based on a subject and verb. The subject is one or more words that name what the sentence is about. The verb makes a statement about the subject. It may state what the subject does, or what it is. (Note that “is,†“are,†“am,†“was,†and “were†are always verbs. Always underline them twice.)

 

 

 

Yes, it's true that the Master books have more instruction than the Grade level books. My dd is just at level 1.1 (identifying subjects and verbs) so this was enough for us.

 

 

I must be missing something here. What happened to identifying nouns and verbs first before identifying subjects and predicates? Or even definitions of parts of speech? The Masterbook, Level 1 has more instructions since it's for self-teaching, but it seems to be assuming some prior grammar experience.

 

 

 

KISS Grammar teaches the Subj-Verb-Complement pattern instead of the Subj-Predicate pattern. Also, as I understand it, it focusses on analyzing sentence patterns instead of categorizing words. The order in which the analysis is taught makes up the 4 KISS levels and the sub-levels. You can see the names of these sub-levels on the KISS web page under the section called 'The KISS Master Books'. Each sub-level is briefly explained in the introduction.

 

HTH

[Haiku]

We started KISS in second grade but dropped it. It's too confusing to navigate, and as someone else mentioned, the instructions are sparse. I know that the guy who created it has basically done it as a labor of love, and that's cool, but ... there HAS to be some way to make it less of a morass to wade through.

 

Tara

[Guest RecumbentHeart]

I'm feeling quite accomplished at the moment. :D I went to the site to check it out, purely out of curiousity, and it makes complete sense to me. It's amazing what clicks for me and what doesn't (plenty of simpler things don't). :lol:

 

..although, granted, reading this thread first probably helped. :p

[AngelBee]

:lurk5:

[crazyforlatin]

I'm still navigating through the site and it looks like instructions are separated by lessons (for example), but they are not in a friendly format for printing. The author also uses Maxwell's Introductory Lessons, which I happen to have printed out a couple of weeks ago after the vintage thread popped up again. So, I could use that as a teaching guide (because I really need one to teach) and then use these exercises. Maybe KISS is better suited for a parent who is strong in grammar?

[Tracy]

:bigear:

[nansk]

I'm still navigating through the site and it looks like instructions are separated by lessons (for example), but they are not in a friendly format for printing.

 

The links called "doc" beside each level name link to Word documents that are in printable format. I have not read any of the HTML lessons except the Introduction. I have directly read the Word documents. They are complete.

 

The author also uses Maxwell's Introductory Lessons...

 

Dr Vavra uses a lot of public domain books including the Elson or Treadwell Reader. This was what attracted me to KISS grammar in the first place - that he uses children's own writing and popular children's literature to teach grammar and analysis.

[MelissaMinNC]

Okay, I'm intrigued.

 

We've almost completed the first part of ILL this year - could we go to KISS from that for next year?

 

How do ppl implement this? How many lessons/week? How long per lesson? How many sub-levels do you get through in one school year? (DD will be in 5th grade - do we have time to get through all the levels?)

 

Not sure if I will make the switch, but I like the way it looks. Not sure if I want to print out our grammar though - already printing math (MM), and that's a lot of paper and ink.

 

Thanks!

Melissa

[WishboneDawn]

 

[/b][/size][/font]I must be missing something here. What happened to identifying nouns and verbs first before identifying subjects and predicates? Or even definitions of parts of speech? The Masterbook, Level 1 has more instructions since it's for self-teaching, but it seems to be assuming some prior grammar experience.

 

From what I got out of it he's more interested in identifying nouns and verbs (etc.) by context, by examining the role it plays in a sentence rather then laying out rules in the beginning about what a noun or verb might be. After all and for instance, verbs are sometimes nouns. That may easier to grasp is you're working from the sentence down rather then from the word up.

[crazyforlatin]

From what I got out of it he's more interested in identifying nouns and verbs (etc.) by context, by examining the role it plays in a sentence rather then laying out rules in the beginning about what a noun or verb might be. After all and for instance, verbs are sometimes nouns. That may easier to grasp is you're working from the sentence down rather then from the word up.

 

That's a good explanation and I'm starting to understand the program. I'm using KISS along with some other free grammar programs and have managed to accumulate as many grammar programs as math programs. I'm also tempted by R&S and JAG, but I want to work with the free ones first. I'm having an easier time teaching Latin grammar than English grammar for some reason. KISS Lesson 1.1 didn't go as well as I would have liked. DD couldn't decide what the subject was and sometimes ended up choosing the direct object. I think MCT gives a better explanation so I'm going to go over those pages dealing with subject before continuing with 1.1 again.