To AP or not to AP?

[Jugglin'5]

Have any of you who have students capable of doing AP work purposefully decided to not go down that path? Why or why not?

 

I find myself wanting to push back both against the extra stress and having my curriculum dictated to such a great extent. If your student is not likely to want to go to an Ivy or other uber-competitive school, is it still imperative?

 

The one exception I am thinking I should make is Calculus for my engineering minded son, but that is a long way off.

[Guest]

Yes, I have, and I started a similar thread last year when I began thinking about it. Opinion seems very, very split.

 

My own reasons: my daughter can memorize. I already know that. To a great degree, AP tests are heavy on breadth of coverage and memorization for the test. I decided I'd rather her read seminar-type material which goes into great depth, think and write extensively on this one issue or topic, rather than try to cover an enormous range of material. A number of elite schools on the East Coast have dropped AP courses and are moving into the seminar course, as is Crossroads, a similar school in Santa Monica. They're the vanguard of what seems to be a beginning reaction against AP. I'm not a jump-onto-the-new-bandwagon kind of person, but this at least makes me feel that I'm not alone in my thinking.

 

Another interesting take is an article someone linked to on another thread this morning: Changes for AP down the road.

[Michelle in AL]

To me there are several advantages of taking AP courses for those seeking non-Ivy schools. One is that it confirms a homeschool student's abilities to perform well in college. This can be done other ways too, such a SATII scores (more high school ability) or community college or outside college classes.

 

One more advantage is that they are able to opt out of college classes if they score well enough, which saves money and frees up time in college to explore other options. This can be accomplished by clep tests too or other transferrable community college or university courses.

 

That said, I have one dd that pushes against hard work. She is very capable of AP classes, but would rather focus on her passions of writing, music and fun. Part of me thinks she needs to do a few APs to get used to the work load before college. part of me thinks I should let her be. We also have online college classes here that could work as well.

 

I guess it's up to your family's goals and what choices are available to you.

[EKS]

We will not be doing AP here. My son will do cc courses instead.

 

Like the other poster, I think that it is important to substantiate a student's homeschool experience with outside verification. This can be SAT II, AP, or outside coursework (either high school or college level). I prefer the cc route because it (hopefully) will verify that my son can do college level coursework in a college environment.

[HeidiD]

Have any of you who have students capable of doing AP work purposefully decided to not go down that path? Why or why not?

 

 

Dual-enrollment in state college here is fairly cheap (cost/course under $200 for high school students) plus taking college courses in advance helps with the transition from homeschooling to college. In ds' case, it seemed more advantageous to dual enroll - good experience for him, and helped him to get scholarships. I think if we didn't have the option of dual enrollment, I'd have my kids take at least one AP course - good preparation for the college grind. :)

[Jugglin'5]

We do have the option to dual enroll. So much to think about....

 

KarenAnne, I found that other thread...thanks!

 

 

Is there any advantage to AP exams that SAT IIs, CLEPs, or CC classes don't have?

[Michelle in AL]

I would say the AP tests may transfer credits to other schools in other states better than clep (it seems more colleges accept AP than clep) or community college courses.

 

Most states mandate transfer of community college courses to all state schools, this doesn't mean they'll transfer out of state. So, if your student may want to go to school out of state, it's important to see what types of credits they'll accept: AP, Clep, community college etc. then base your decision on that.

[DebbS]

We're planning on a mixed bag. A few APs, a few dual credit courses, a few SAT subject tests, and a few Clep exams. I am looking more for verification of our homeschooling than for college credits....though we'll take them if a college wants to give them.

[memphispeg]

I am ok with AP for science and math but, history and english should not be so much about multiple choice questions but rather close reading, interpretation and analysis. I do agree that AP scores can be a validation of the sophistication of the curriculum. So, I'm thinking that we'll enjoy the ride through our English and History classes and do AP prep as a late sideline. I'm still debating whether to sign up for those tests......

[FairProspects]

The one I would recommend taking at least is AP English Comp, because an introductory composition course seems standard just about everywhere, and it was the most worthless class in college!! I couldn't believe I had to pay to take this garbage, when nearly all of my friends got out of it through AP.

 

If you are teaching writing the WTM way, your students will be so far above the material of Freshman comp, they will wish they AP'ed out. I'm not sure if CC classes would also work as we didn't have dual enrollment at the time, but I can't imagine the content being any more rich in a CC comp class. Seriously, if you can write at all, Freshman comp was absolutely pointless and it is much better to just test out. Plus, from what my friends said it was one of the easier AP tests.

Edited July 20, 2010 by FairProspects

[Gwen in VA]

We went the AP route. My kids loved their AP classes -- they were real "capstones" for my kids' high school experience. My kids found both breadth and depth in their AP classes. Maybe my kids are unusual students, but I prefer to think that their teachers (Scholars Online, PA Homeschoolers) were great teachers who taught the material in-depth while preparing the kids for the test.

 

Even if your kids are aiming for a college that does not accept AP credits, I would encourage you to think about AP. If your kids are heading towards an Ivy league school, they should be able to handle both the depth and breadth of an AP course, in which case the course would be a fun challenge to them.

 

AP classes and great AP scores look great on a transcript. A strong AP score does a wonderful job validating the awesome education your child has received at home.

 

And many colleges still give credit for good AP scores.

 

AP classes are challenging and my kids enjoyed rising to the level of learning expected in their AP classes.

 

My third child occasionally considers not even going to college, but he is taking AP classes because he wants the challenge. Education isn't always about getting credit -- hopefully at least some (if not most) of the time it is truly about feeding the intellectually curious kid who needs serious challenges to grow into the adult he can become!

[ma23peas]

AP all the way for us...three reasons....

 

1. College is EXPENSIVE!! We will have three children in college at the same time! The AP test is around $80..if they do well and I expect them to (they're very diligent in their studies) they will get 8 credit hours for a 4/5 for most courses...if they take 6-8 AP tests they'll be a junior after just a few course and can focus on their major classes...my niece started Boston Univ. on full scholarship last year and graduates next May! 2 years!!

 

2. The community college dual enrollment courses around me are hit/miss...some of the colleges we're considering don't give full credit for some basic courses from those colleges. University of Alabama has a new program that looks promising but again while they cut the tuition by 2/3 it's still $300 a semester per class...most universities transfer those credits but they limit you to taking 30 hours...

 

3. Time...investing a lot of time/studies not will free them up to let their senior year be devoted to something they love or are invested in...my son could focus on a strong Eagle project, do a mission trip, or devote the year to speech/debate and take it to competition..by doing AP courses/finishing his requirements early he'll have a easier transition into college and have time to dig deeper into something else..

 

That's why we're choosing it....

Tara

[JFSinIL]

My ds did AP to look good for college. He started by tackling AP World as a 9th grader. He ended up with 7 total APs (all the history, both English, Bio, Economics) and was an AP Scholar by the end of 11th grade.

 

Ended up accepted at 9 of 11 colleges. Merit aid at all of them.

 

He will attend a school costing a wee bit over $40,000 in one month - at a cost to us of $14,748 (got the bill today!).

 

He will be allowed up to 21 credits for the AP classes. For ds, AP has paid off.

 

I might add - here, dual enrollment is not allowed except for some basic tech. training classes. It just was not an option.

[Gwen in VA]

For ds, AP has paid off.

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

I've given details in numerous other posts, but I can't say enough positive about AP's.

 

I think the AP option rocks!

Edited July 20, 2010 by Gwen in VA

[Phoatogirl]

How do you do AP?

 

I went to the College Board website and it seems you have to submit your syllabus in the summer for the upcoming school year. Is that what you are all doing?

 

Wendy

[michon]

My ds did AP to look good for college. He started by tackling AP World as a 9th grader. He ended up with 7 total APs (all the history, both English, Bio, Economics) and was an AP Scholar by the end of 11th grade.

 

Ended up accepted at 9 of 11 colleges. Merit aid at all of them.

 

He will attend a school costing a wee bit over $40,000 in one month - at a cost to us of $14,748 (got the bill today!).

 

He will be allowed up to 21 credits for the AP classes. For ds, AP has paid off.

 

I might add - here, dual enrollment is not allowed except for some basic tech. training classes. It just was not an option.

 

What curriculum did you use for AP World? My oldest is starting 9th grade and I am soooo confused at all the choices. I would like her to do some AP courses, especially in history and English. If we could spread it out over 4 years in High school that would be ideal. Also, she wants to take a year off school after graduation to do missions. She will turn 18 in August after graduation and I think it will be a good time.

[Halftime Hope]

by and large, we have not done AP courses.

 

1) the course material, with the exception of one course, was not of any interest to my kids. There were other courses available to them through state uni (as dual credit) and online that were far more appealing in content and delivery than the AP options. Ds#1 preferred to take his maths and compsci at the uni he was going to attend as a graduate anyway, at a far lower cost than AP for the same courses. No other AP courses interested him. Dd#2 was able to take far richer courses covering lit/history and art than what AP offered, courses whose content appealed far more to her than the AP scope and sequence. She did take AP Psych (Potter's School), because that appealed, given her interest in social work/chaplaincy/ministry. My philosophy for the last two years of high school is that my students have covered all the basics for history/lit earlier, and I allow them to choose courses that are of the most interest to them or that will equip them to follow their passion.

 

2) We had other great options to validate their work and challenge the level of their academic accomplishments: dual credit university courses (33 hours between the two kids) and online courses through Biola Youth (Torrey Academy), Alexandria Tutorials, and that one Potter's School AP.

 

3) My personal opinion is that for some students, validating the entire year's work with a one-sitting, high stakes test can be rather risky. It depends on how good the student is at those tests. Just something to consider.

[DebbS]

How do you do AP?

 

I went to the College Board website and it seems you have to submit your syllabus in the summer for the upcoming school year. Is that what you are all doing?

 

Wendy

 

You do not have to take an AP approved class to take the AP test. We may or may not get our Human Geography course AP approved, but my son will take the test. If we don't get it AP approved, his transcript will show something like Honors Human Geography and his AP score. If we do go ahead and get it approved we will be able to call it AP Human Geography. Colleges give college credit based on the test, not on the course, though they may weigh the high school class differently for high school credit if it has the 'AP' designation. And then some colleges will give it more weight anyway if the student did well on the AP test. It varies from college to college.

[Brenda in MA]

by and large, we have not done AP courses.

 

1) the course material, with the exception of one course, was not of any interest to my kids. There were other courses available to them through state uni (as dual credit) and online that were far more appealing in content and delivery than the AP options. Ds#1 preferred to take his maths and compsci at the uni he was going to attend as a graduate anyway, at a far lower cost than AP for the same courses. No other AP courses interested him. Dd#2 was able to take far richer courses covering lit/history and art than what AP offered, courses whose content appealed far more to her than the AP scope and sequence. She did take AP Psych (Potter's School), because that appealed, given her interest in social work/chaplaincy/ministry. My philosophy for the last two years of high school is that my students have covered all the basics for history/lit earlier, and I allow them to choose courses that are of the most interest to them or that will equip them to follow their passion.

 

2) We had other great options to validate their work and challenge the level of their academic accomplishments: dual credit university courses (33 hours between the two kids) and online courses through Biola Youth (Torrey Academy), Alexandria Tutorials, and that one Potter's School AP.

 

3) My personal opinion is that for some students, validating the entire year's work with a one-sitting, high stakes test can be rather risky. It depends on how good the student is at those tests. Just something to consider.

 

My oldest didn't take any AP tests, just a few on-line courses and courses at our local CC. I agree with all of the reasons Valerie stated for why a student may want to pursue other options than taking AP classes/exams.

 

My older son's interests were elsewhere, and he is not the type of student who is able to memorize large quantities of information over a time span of 9 - 10 months and then spit it out concisely during one couple of hour test given in May. He is also prone to allergy attacks, and May is one of his worst months, so we didn't want to chance the heart break of preparing for an AP exam all year only to have him either not be able to take it or to score poorly because he was blowing his nose every other minute. He was very successful with the on-line and cc route and was offered merit scholarships at many schools.

 

Regarding the costs -- if you can self-study for an AP course and do well, then the $80 test fee is a bargain. If you need to pay for a tutor or on-line AP course (many of which are $500 - $600 per course), then your local CC might be cheaper. Even though my state doesn't offer free CC for high schoolers, the course fee for a one-semester, 3 credit course was about $350, much cheaper than some of the AP options.

 

I'm happy that there are some kids who find AP course materials challenging and who are able to do very well on the AP exams. APs can be a great opportunity for certain types of students, but there are other routes that will get a student where he/she needs to be without taking AP exams.

 

That said, my younger guy is a different kind of student, and he may take a few AP exams. I'm glad for the options. Based on my experience, the decision to pursue APs is one that really needs to be made by each family considering circumstances and the strengths/weaknesses of the individual students involved.

 

Brenda

[FloridaLisa]

Have any of you who have students capable of doing AP work purposefully decided to not go down that path? Why or why not?

 

There are definitely advantages and disadvantages to taking AP courses. To AP or not depends on many factors (several of which you identified):

 

*your student's goals and intended major (including graduate school)

*your student's probable college and it's admissions rubric

*your student's learning style

*your student's level of self-motivation

*resources available locally

*demands on your student's time from extracurricular/work

*your philosophy of home education

 

 

AP is one tool in your educational toolbox. I'm glad I've learned about it so that we can implement it when it fits. Oldest ds took 4 APs' date=' though he/we now wish he had taken one through dual-enrollment. (AP Macroeconomics. It's just not his cuppa, it matters not to his major, and it would have been a whole lot easier and more interesting at our local CC. Live and learn.) Because he wanted to ultimately apply to medical school, he was leery of taking too many CC courses. So we were able to show some outside course validation and rigor through APs. In his senior year, he dual-enrolled at a state university.

 

Dd1 has a bit different path. At this point, she is looking at becoming a nurse practitioner, so dual-enrollment, through our CC and local state university, makes sense. She did take APUSGov with me, but that gave us some choice over text and materials used. She'll take the two AP English courses b/c I think they are higher quality than the freshman English courses.

 

Dd2 will have a mix, but it's taking shape now, so I don't know just what it will look like.

 

The point is, use AP *if* it fits your homeschool and college goals. If not, well, there are many other paths that can work equally well.

 

{QUOTE']The one exception I am thinking I should make is Calculus for my engineering minded son, but that is a long way off.

 

Yes. This is what I'm referring to. Using AP where it makes sense.

 

HTH,

Lisa