Help, teen motivation seriously lacking

[keptwoman]

DS has a very definite aim in life, he has wanted to do this since he was a little boy and has never waivered. His aim requires him to do Engineering at Uni, and therefore requires a rigorous maths and science curriculum, along with good LA skills and French due to the industry he wants to be in. He has set his own timeline about when he wants to go to Uni etc.

 

Over the last few months it has become apparant that he was lying to us about what he was acheiving. He would tick off work that wasn't done, and then lie about why he did it. Naturally this was partly my fault for not checking more often, but now I am checking daily and looking at every piece of work to be sure it has been completed appropriately. This lying has led us to zero trust because we feel strongly about dishonesty.

 

At the moment he gets no internet until he is done for the day, and he must complete all of each days work on that day. But he is sneaking onto the internet and still trying his best to avoid work. He also has already lost sailing for a month due to the lying, and I'm concerned that if we continue to remove priviledges, he is going to have no reason left to bother to finish work, i.e if we remove internet access, what incentive has he got to finish his work each day? We have just removed his iPod for a week, and when DH gets home tonight a big talk will be happening.

 

I really feel that with only 2.5 years left of schooling, he needs to have intrinsic motivation now. It's not going to work for me to drag him along, right through to the point that he is accepted to University, because he will arrive with no good work habits and likely fail badly. I've already told him this, and I've also told him that if he can't improve his work habits by the end of the year then he is going back to school because I refuse to expend time and energy on a child who won't expend it on himself.

 

His attitude stinks, and I'm seriously over it. It's not improving at all.

 

These are the options that I see and the pros and cons for each:

 

1/ Send him back to school now.

Pros:

This will mean that University is easier (homeschooled students do have a few hoops to jump through to get there)

I will not be blamed for his failure, failure is fairly inevitable if he continues his current work habits.

Cons:

The social scene at the local highschools could lead to partying and drinking which I feel very strongly about. It's not healthy or safe. We can set boundaries around that of course, but given his propensity for lying, we may have to give him much less freedom than he currently gets.

 

2/ Remove every priviledge he has

Pros:

Shows we are serious

Cons:

I suspect it will backfire with him now having nothing to work towards

 

3/ Let him do nothing if that is what he really wants to do, stop policing him, let him set his schedule and his outcomes. Let him not acheive this year and push everything in his goals further away (which would be the likely outcome from this scenario)

Pros:

I could stop worrying, and he would have to own his own future dreams.

Cons:

I think I would be driven mad by him slobbing around the house, and his lack of drive.

I suspect this would impact on the other two.

 

Help! Tell me there are other options I have not thought of, tell me there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm feeling bad-guyed out.

[AngieW in Texas]

Is dual credit an option where you live?

 

I have had it with my oldest. She will have problems with a lesson, but won't ask me about it. I don't know that she had problems with it until I go to check her work. Then she claims that the book didn't have the formulas or that they didn't work. I can sit there and show her how to work through the problems and she'll understand well enough to be able to work the other correctly, but she'll argue until she's blue in the face that the book didn't say to do it that way (even after I go through the worked example in the book that showed it exactly like I did). I was hoping that getting the Dana Mosley videos to go with the Precalc book would prevent that sort of thing, but the videos mostly don't work. I ordered the cheaper videos using the ISBNs that Pongo had in her email. They were a LOT cheaper than ordering from Chalkdust (cost me just $25 for the videos), but about half of the video clips we've tried to watch didn't work. Today was the first one we've tried to watch since chapter 4, but it didn't work.

 

Next year my dd will be doing almost everything at the community college. The only things she'll do at home are government and economics. They'll both be done with Thinkwell, so I won't have to be involved in it at all.

[keptwoman]

I don't even know what dual credit is, but being in Australia, I'm guessing not. The path to University here is quite different, the kids can't get "credits" at home, they need to do Open Uni (online) courses to get in.

 

He has no problem with the work, he is capable of doing it. Frankly it's just laziness. And that laziness extends into pulling his weight about the house as well.

[tampamommy]

Oh, sigh. Sorry to hear you are going through this. It's not easy, I know. Here's a hug, too.

:grouphug:

 

I don't think sending him back to school will solve any of these issues, unless it's a military school and that would definitely be something I would seriously consider as another option, for your child's sake.

 

My vote would be closest to number 3. It's time for him to grow up and experience the results of his choices.

 

I would start by having him repeat all the work he lied about. Every single bit of it. If that means he stays behind a grade, so be it. If it was "his aim" all along to follow a certain path, he has made unwise choices that delay his chosen path. Too bad. This is "real life," especially at age 16. If you've screwed up, you pay the consequences. (I realize it's not easy to watch him make bad choices and LET it happen).

 

A month seems like a very small time to take away privileges, given his age and his choices. Lying is so serious. It can and likely will ruin his life at some point if it continues. If he gets away with lying and only loses sailing for a month, that's just not painful enough imho to affect a different choice in him next time. The privileges have to be EARNED back. What he has to do is regain your trust. Trust takes time, more than a month(!) at that age, to earn back.

 

Remember,what he did he did PURPOSELY. To you. EVERY time he lied, he deliberately chose to flush your trust down the toilet.

 

Motivation to get done? You can't force that. You can model that in your own life. He's got to ultimately find his own way. Talking a lot with him about how he won't reach his goals won't help, especially if you've talked with him lots before. However, if you talk less and let him fail now in some areas, maybe he will learn over time that he has to "suck it up" and be a man. But if you bail him out, it's a disservice to him.

 

As I have told my dc, there comes a time in our lives when there is not always going to be a carrot dangling there in front of us as a reward for doing what's right. Sometimes we have to make the right choice just because it IS the right thing to do, even if we don't WANT to do it! The ironic thing is that usually when we do choose what's right, often rewards do come. Not necessarily right away. In his case, if his dream has been genuine, he will be willing to put in the hard work to accomplish it in the long term. If he's not willing to do that, well, then I would really doubt that it's been his dream all along. And maybe it's best to find that out now, instead of shelling out lots of money for university and then discovering he doesn't really want that dream.

 

The other thing I wonder about is what his home responsibilities are? In addition to school, is he regularly helping with cooking, bathroom cleaning, dusting, vacuuming, yardwork, laundry, etc. etc.? He should be! Does he get regular exercise or play a sport? He should be! These are all such wholesome activities that eventually give children and teens a sense of being a contributor versus a leech in the family. I don't think these should be options. It's just part of being a family, learning to be a responsible adult, and taking care of oneself. If a child doesn't want to compete in sports, fine. Walk. Jog. Ride a bike. Hit a tennis ball against a wall. Rollerblade. Ripstik. Whatever. Just get the heart pumping regularly. It will make him a happier kid. And internet time? He'd be way too busy studying, mastering the art of bathroom cleaning, cooking etc., and exercising to have much free time left. :)

 

I'm sorry, internet time would just be GONE. He should have thought about how much he enjoys the internet service you pay for, on the computer you (likely) paid for, in the home you pay for, after eating the food you pay for...when he CHOSE to purposely LIE repeatedly to you.

 

I don't mean to sound harsh. I think anything that remotely caters to him really leads to more of the status quo. Hang in there. I will be thinking of you and your family.

[kate in seattle]

i read, in a how to parent teens book, that all they 'deserve' is a place to sleep, clothes to cover the body and adequate nutrition. this guy recommended taking away priviliges to the point of 1)only one set of clothes at a time, 2) mattress on the floor and 3) taking the door off so you could always monitor. I have never implemented those measures, though there were a few times i probably should have.

 

I think it is SO TOUGH to parent non-motivated or underachieving or misbehaving teens. it requires incredible toughness on the part of parent to really take away privileges and/or release them to fail.

 

sorry no real help but :grouphug: and all the moral support in whatever course you decide is right for YOU and your teen.

[keptwoman]

No military schools in Australia, sadly.

We have made him do all the work he lied about. He still has some work to do in history to catch up, but he is caught up in all other areas.

The reason we made it a month is that that is huge for him. I realise it may not seem much, but he is sailing obsessed, missing one week is hard for him, missing a month is like cutting off his arm, he knows that the next lie will result in twice that amount of time. Plus, it's his sport, it gets him out in the fresh air and being energetic, loosing that physical exertion is not ideal. I gave the lying as background, but I do feel it's been dealt with and we are moving on from there, with the proviso that the trust has to be earnt back, there is none right now.

 

He does do quite a bit of exercise, he runs every morning, and sails (well not now obviously, but it's his major sport), plus scouts outdoor excursions etc.

And yes, he helps about the house, although he is very lazy with that as well, but I do insist on his help with stuff, I certainly could increase the amount he has to do.

 

So to be clear, you would come down hard, that includes loosing all internet and upping the work he has to do about the house. What about the school work though, would you enforce the completion of it or let him slack off?

[tampamommy]

My ds would feel like his arm was cut off if he missed tennis for a week, so I can relate. I still think a month is way too short. Don't worry, he won't suffer. And I would not let him complain about not sailing. He brought it on himself so now he needs to own it. If he complains, he earns extra non-sailing time. If he keeps running, that's great because he still gets his exercise. And do you pay for that sailing? That's another option. Have him earn the money to pay for his sport while he is earning back your trust.

 

Yes, internet would be gone for a long time too. Chores would increase.

 

Schoolwork...I would let him make his own good or bad choices and wouldn't micromanage. I'd make sure he knows his deadlines and has a planning calendar. But I wouldn't hesitate to give him F's if warranted.

 

I use a 4 to 1 grading scale for "regular" work. (4=mastery 3=good progress 2=need to move towards good progress 1=unacceptable). If regular assignments are turned in late, they automatically get a 1. (even if they are perfectly done). So a 1 is like an F.

 

Letter grades are for larger assignments like papers, projects, and exams. If a larger project is late, it is docked one or two letter grades, depending on my discretion. For example, if it's late because something unexpected came up, that would be one grade. (That's why they have to leave extra buffer time in project planning!) But if it's late because they procrastinated the entire project, that would be minus two letter grades.

 

Take care.

[keptwoman]

I don't grade. I expect mastery of the material to a decent level, but no grading.

[Rosie_0801]

Jackarooing? (Is that a verb? :001_huh:) A young friend of mine did that last year in WA, I can ask him about it if you like. Work his young body into the dust, and it won't be you making him do it because you'll be comfy back at home. :D

 

Rosie

Edited June 24, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[AK_Mom4]

I like number 3, BUT.....give him the option of just taking the final test for the material. If he passes it, then just go on to the next level. And the next. And the next. If not, hand it all over to him and tell him it's his responsibility to learn it.

 

The reason I suggest this is that maybe the material is too easy for him? It can be very difficult for for a kid to get motivated when the material itself is not challenging. Not that it excuses the lying and sneaking, of course, but might serve as a way of getting him motivated to do the school work.

[keptwoman]

AK Mom, no the material is definitely not too easy for him.

Rosie, no thanks :) He's a sea boy.

[Rosie_0801]

Can he get some work experience in the area he wants to go into, or sit in on a first year uni class?

 

Rosie

[keptwoman]

Work experience: not really, but we are trying to hook something up for a year or so's time.

Uni: well, I suppose he could, but to what purpose?

After reaching my wits end, he actually got all his work done by 7pm this evening (after not starting until 1pm) well, when I say he got it done, he said he did, I have yet to have a chance to sit down with him, but he has been forewarned of the possible consequences if he hasn't actually finished. Fingers crossed!! I'll be going over it with him after dinner.

[Rosie_0801]

Uni: well, I suppose he could, but to what purpose?

 

 

Was thinking it might remind him of what he was aiming for, the next step.

 

Like I'd know, though, my kids are tots and I didn't have any realistic ambition at that age.

 

:)

Rosie

[keptwoman]

We are doing some Uni tours later this year, I'm hoping that might kick start the drive.

Quick trip to Tassie in August.

[Peela]

Sandra I definitely dont know the answer. I have an unmotivated 14yo son but he is really not inclined towards academics so I dont really have the same high hopes for him (as in uni) you have for your son. I know he has some sort of destiny but I know I can only do so much to motivate him academically.

 

I have found recently my son REALLY wants to be treated not as a child, and not "under our thumb" so to speak. Of course we have told him all about getting more freedom when he acts more responsibly...but in the end, it is up to us to let go a bit too. Dh changed the tone with which he was talking to ds, and I listened more too, to his perspective.

 

I tend towards the no. 3 option but I dont think it needs to be extreme, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I sat down with my son and told him my perspective (after losing my temper for a bit with him and telling him he needed to go to school because he argues with me over everything!). I said, if he wont work for me, without arguing (because it makes it impossible for me to work with him and "teach" him anything), he will have to go to school, because he really needs an education. He understood that. He was reacting emotionally and hadn't really thought it through properly. He was very sorry, and at the same time, knew himself enough to know that this talk wasnt going to be enough to motivate him to change.

He suggested, beleive it or not, a solution. He suggested that we fine him 50 cents every time he argued with me, so he could be reminded and get out of the habit. We agreed and it is working. He got4 50cent fines last week. And he has largely stopped arguing.

 

Dh also thought to start positively motivating him, instead of negatively. He was doing badly at maths because he wasnt concentrating- lack of motivation. Dh is paying him now to do well at maths.

 

I know these arent ideal, idealistically speaking, but its been 2 much better weeks and trying hard in one subject has definitely helped in others as well.

 

I dont think you can "make" a child be internally motivated. You can reason with them, but that's about it. I have considered being completely hands off with my son to try and get him to be self motivated...but he doesnt want that, actually. He likes my structure and me helping him (he asked me to help him more). He doesnt have much internal motivation but he has some. Enough.

 

YOur son obviously has some motivation. He just doesnt want to do it your way, perhaps? I think you need to reach his heart on it all, because once you have lost his heart, once he feels you are on separate teams, its pretty hard parenting from then on. Maybe sit down and just tell him how you are feeling and see how he responds.

 

I wouldn't worry so much either, if he is only year 10. He has some time up his sleeve. He can do some TAFE. He can do uni a year later. He can try and fail. You may be panicking for nothing and putting a bit too much pressure on him than he needs right now, to get where he needs to go. Does he do some work, so that he realised what teh work world is like? Does he crave money and what it can buy? What motivates him?

 

I was at the point 2 weeks ago where I didnt want homeschooling to ruin my relationship with my son. I couldnt see a way through except school which seems like a gamble as to whether it woudl hlep or not. Then, between dh, ds and I , we found a way through for now that seems to be working. I suggest you put the relationship first, and work on connecting and finding out what is going on for him. You may find a compromise.

[Faithr]

I vote for number 3. Don't give up hope! I'll tell you a story with a happy ending! I dragged my oldest dd through 9th grade and she had the worst attitude! It was so aggravating! All I could think of was that she was never going anywhere in life. She was so lazy and only concerned with her girlfriends, her hair, boys and doing her nails!!! And I knew she was/is smart as a whip! By the end of 9th grade I was so burned out, I told her: Forget it! Do what you want, I've got other kids to deal with and a life to lead! And I truly gave up. And. . . . she rose to the challenge once given freedom. After months we were able to talk. When she hated doing something (like taking biology!) she wanted me to nag her to get it done because she was lacking the motivation to overcome her dislike, but other than that she was in charge. I only nagged or helped out If ASKED. Fast forward 4 years. . . she just completed her first year of college and has been on the dean's list. She's decided her love is political philosophy. This summer she's reading Kant poolside!!!! From painting one's nails to Kant!

 

Maturity does a lot for a kid, and freedom (the right kind of freedom) allows for maturity. Your son is a work in progress. He's busy growing, figuring out who he is. It takes great discipline to study, study, study all the time. Right now his ambitions outstrip his self-control. Give him time to get them in balance. I really, really wouldn't get punitive. In my experience that always comes back to bite you in the behind! Instead talk about how you can help him be more disciplined by making rules that support his goals. Get rid of your anger and disappointment in him. It's destructive and will eat away his self-confidence. Give him freedom, become his best coach and number one cheerleader, and watch him bloom and blossom!!!

[Martha in GA]

because I'm having the same sort of issues with my ds. However, I just wanted to ask if you tried your Dana Mosely lectures in a DVD player -- we bought the cheap version, too, and some of the lectures worked on our computer, but some would only work in our DVD player.

 

Martha

[Michelle in AL]

Has he had any online classes or classes with other teachers? Does he do better in those? My kids perform much better for other teachers. If you haven't tried other teachers, I would try that arena 1st, if you could afford it. That way you could keep him out of school, yet he'd still be accountable to someone else.

[Susan C.]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: with Peela

[Teachin'Mine]

Personally I think public school would just lead to worse problems for him. Do you have the option of signing him up with a correspondence home school? Then he'd have work he'd have to submit to them, and take tests with them. You wouldn't be the one saying the work has to be done - they would. My daughter became much more careful in her work once it had to be given to someone else for grading. There are courses that she can do on her own, but doesn't want to since she says she needs the accountability in order to do her best. I think it also satisfies a bit of her competitive nature to be getting actual grades. She's not comparing to others, but is very clear about what grades she's happy with and what she's not.

 

I also like the advice of good hard work. If he likes sailing, maybe he could get a job working in a boat yard; cleaning boats, or any other physical labor, is great for teens and can also help as a motivator for taking his education more seriously.

 

It's not the worst thing for him to have natural consequences - especially as there's still time before he graduates. Many are a year older at graduation, or take a gap year, so I don't think it would hurt any to take an extra year now if need be. Not for the academics, but for him to take ownership of his education. I think visiting colleges is great and talking with admissions people also. Might also help to talk with people in the field he's interested in who have recently graduated. Young people can reach other young people in ways that us parents can't. Maybe one would be interested in mentoring him a bit. The more psyched he can become about what he wants to do, then the more he'll be focused on doing what needs to be done to get there.

 

:grouphug:

[Nan in Mass]

I haven't found that removing things helps. Not at all. Especially if it is for longer than a three days. Every day needs to be a new day at that age. LOL at any age, I guess. It just makes them more depressed and more unmotivated. I like the jackarooing idea the best, except that obviously it would have to be something sea oriented. If your son is between 13 and 15 or 16, I think you are better off just waiting. Coax, cajole, bribe, and make small uncomfortablenesses and try to get as much schoolwork into him as you can. At that age, it is up to you to help them accomplish their goals in spite of themselves, I think. If he is 17 or older, then I think you need to find the cause of the problem. Is he depressed? Why? Did something happen? Was he born gloomy? Does he have some sort of chemical imbalance? Has he changed his mind about what he would like to be? Is he bored and tired and looking at an awful lot of years of boring hard work before he gets to the fun part of life? Or is he afraid of the future and hiding (being grownup is pretty scary!!!)? Or does he have the sort of personality that makes the internet a huge temptation, something beyond his self control? Is pot involved (very, very bad for some people's motivation and rampant in my area)? If he is depressed or addicted, then you need to deal with that. You might be able to deal with it at home, or you might need outside help, depending on what is going on. At this age, a week is a long time and the end goal of years of hard work is unfathomable. Many adults have trouble staying motivated for years at a time, but we ask our children to do it. It sounds like he has fun things to look forward to on a daily basis (sailing, internet). Perhaps when he has served out his punishment for lieing (the month of no sailing?), you could set it up so that on a daily basis (start new each day), if he gets his work done, he can go sailing and use the internet, but if he doesn't, he can't. That way, he has some motivation to try again tomorrow. Longterm punishments take away any motivation to try, a bad idea in someone who lacks motivation in the first place. You want to set it up so that he is rewarded daily for doing his schoolwork, not make it so there is no use even trying. And a job where he has to work hard for somebody else is a good idea, work really hard. Do you have the equivalent of our lobster boats there? Or could he work at a boat yard part-time? We put all three of our boys into situations where they had to be grownup and do something that was physically hard at intervals throughout their teenagerhood, and I think it is what made the difference between my children and some of their less motivated friends, what let them become motivated once they were through the 13-15yo stage. That stage is bad whole for many boys. You just have to wait it out. Do your best to get their math into them, work on writing, try to keep them reading, and don't worry too much if they don't remember anything else that they do for schoolwork. It is, however, a great time to teach them to how to do grownup things other than schoolwork. If you do that, they have a better chance of coming out of the stage with something, feeling competent and adult.

 

It is very difficult.

 

-Nan

[FloridaLisa]

I agree almost word for word with Nan. Yes, he did something serious. He lied, he got by with as little as he could. I've been there. And when I got over my huge disappointment and anger and "how could you even *think* about doing this!", I realized that I could have very likely have done the same when I was in high school. He's not reached full maturity yet, and there are few kids that are so self-motivated to complete all expecations when there is no oversight. I've learned that lesson the hard way as well.

 

Now, I'm on the other side of that. Give him consequences, but I wouldn't make them so drastic as #2. He probably needs you to encourage and cheerlead as much as punish at this point.

 

I think with boys, it's even a little trickier for the mom. These boys are growing into men and at some point, it is hard to continue to be their mom and teacher and principal and moral code enforcer. Outsourcing some classes was a HUGE help for us. It allowed for outside accountability and inspiration and stimulation that didn't come from working in his room with a text.

 

Also, my dh became much more involved. My man-boy needed his dad to dole out consequences (without a mom lecture), help him set goals and enforce in a no-nonsense way. :001_smile:

 

Other than this, I heartily second all that Nan said.

 

Lisa

[keptwoman]

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. Really, really appreciate it. It's so nice to know that others have been there and got through. I'm going to save this thread in my subs so I can go back and read it when I need to.

 

I'm glad others feel that being overly punitive is not a good idea, I have a very real sense that that will send him further away from me instead of closer and cause real rebellion.

A couple of responses:

 

Yes, he already does an outside class, French. We will add more soon, but my concern is spending the $$ and then him not completing the work as he did not keep up with his French until I got on top of him about it.

 

He has been applying for jobs all over the place for months, I really have my fingers crossed that he gets one soon as I think that extra use of his time will make him more efficient with his school work.

 

Nan, he is 16. We have no concerns re pot or depression.

 

I guess we had a bad day yesterday, and in the end he got his work done in reasonable time, albiet late. But strangely, not as late as some of the days he starts on time. I think the worst thing yesterday was his stinky attitude, I wonder if a stinky attitude needs more housework!!

I am working with him each Friday to schedule his work into his diary for the following week. Over time we will transition this to him scheduling it himself, then checking it with me (to be sure he doesn't backload his week as he was tending to do)

Then once he is scheduling sorted out, I will stop checking the schedule.

 

I check his diary and his work at the end of the day to see that his work is complete. No internet until work is complete. By the end of the year I would like him to be working without needing me to threaten no internet.

 

Those of you who have suggested option 3, how would it look in your house? Would you stop checking and giving consequences each day? Would you back off entirely and let them do their own thing and come to you when they needed assistance?

 

My one concern with this is that any outside courses we pay for (French, and about to be Chem and next year adding Physics and Maths) you only get 52 weeks to complete the work, after that you have to pay again, and the last two are $600 each!!

 

Thank you again.

[Faithr]

Hi Sandra,

 

I would talk to him about how he can keep on top of things like French without you having to call all the shots for him. Maybe he can come up with his own plan on how to do it. You can brainstorm together. It is better he learn how to do this now than in college where if he fails, he really fails! He may ask you to nag him! He may realize this is the only thing that is going to light a fire under him at this point in time!

 

The same thing goes with checking on him. How does he want this to be done? Is it realistic? Talk to him like you are team and his ideas and input are as important or more important than yours (it is his education and life, after all!).

 

I think it is good to establish regular times where you meet to assess how things are going. Something that naturally folds into your schedule. For my oldest it was usually in the morning over coffee a couple times a week. And sometimes we'd go out to Starbucks together. For my oldest son it is usually at night after the younger kids are in bed. For my current 15 yo, it's the drive to his math tutor's house once a week. Or lately he's been helping me with the Bluebird monitoring I do at a local park (we did this this a.m.) and we talk while we are walking through the woods. And he told me to check his math! And have I yet? No! LOL! I need to go do that!

 

Remember this is a learning process for both of you. He has to learn to take responsibility and you have to learn to let go. Be patient with yourselves! There may be setbacks! It takes time! You might have to adjust as things go along but that's good. It means you are both being flexible. Patience, working on a good, open relationship and trust will bring about wonderful, wonderful rewards! He won't feel the need to lie to you to cover up his weaknesses. Instead he'll come to you as a trusted advocate to whom he can turn when he's dug himself into a hole!

 

Good luck!

[Peela]

Those of you who have suggested option 3, how would it look in your house? Would you stop checking and giving consequences each day? Would you back off entirely and let them do their own thing and come to you when they needed assistance?

 

 

 

I would do something like an agreement or contract with him that is actually led by him and not you. That is, if he still wants to do what he is doing and not just feeing he "should" because of you. If he still genuinely has the same goal...I would sit down and ask him if he would like your help or would he prefer you back right off. If he would like some help from you, ask him what sort of help. It might be marking his work, it might be to pay for certain subjects if he passes(he could pay for them if he isn't going to work for them and fails). Throw it back on him.

At least, that is kind of what I am doing with my 14yo ds, without going all the way. He actually does want my help and structure. He wants some accountability. He just doesnt want me putting pressure and nagging him all day. And neither do I. He also still LOVES it if I sit and walk him through something hard rather than just leaving him to it.

 

I just started reading Raising Teenagers with Love and Logic last night- its all about making them accountable rather than using punishment. It is helping me reframe some ways I have been treating my kids. It has helped me see that I want them to be motivated by healthy, intrinsic factors, not by fear of punishment from me.

[Nan in Mass]

Somewhere between 15 and 20, mine have sort of woken up and consistently been able to think about what they are doing and where they want to go. I think as they near independent adulthood, they suddenly see that the end of the teenage waiting period is approaching and they better stop drifting and start paddling in the direction they want to go, not just where the stream is taking them. They find they are strong enough to paddle for an extended period of time, too, which is generally a big relief to them. They are used to trying and petering out before they get anywhere. When mine have woken up, I have done something similar to what Peela talks about. Ours takes the form of informal agreements. I just want to add something to her post. If you do this, remember that they are coming from childhood with a very limited idea of the possibilities out there and of how strong they are. They will agree to things and then find that they are too hard, they aren't strong enough yet to carry them out. Or that they are too easy and they are capable of more. Or that they aren't what they wanted afterall. Don't be afraid to alter the agreement or to let them try again later. In my case, my children have often done their growing up while they were away from me, peacewalking, so when they come back, we have found (they and I) that we have to renegotiate all those sorts of agreements. Because they do their growing up suddenly, in chunks, it is more obvious than if you have a more stable family life with everyone growing gradually. If anyone every grows gradually. Perhaps it always happens in chunks. I don't know. Just don't take the agreements as written in stone and you should be fine.

-Nan

[Faithr]

Very insightful, Nan!

[anissa]

We had similar issues with my son. My husband felt that he really needed independence from mom. I know most will disagree with our decision but we sent him to ps and he thrived. All our years of hsing paid off as he soared. Was it all great? No! Some things drove me crazy. As a woman, I can not teach him to be a man. That being said, I am not comfortable sending my 2nd ds to ps. Being with mom all day does not bother him, yet. I am not saying that this is your son's issue, it just seemed to be ours.

[Deb in NZ]

he has always been my challenging dc. Some things we've done that I feel has helped with his challenging attitude:

 

1. We took him last August to talk to the navy recruiter. ds#1 has been focused on enlisting in the navy for many years, so this helped him to get an idea of a plan for the next 2-3 years. Ds#1 did most of the talking & I was surprised at how much he seemed to grow up after we returned home. He had a plan now to make his dreams come true.
   
2. The local polytech started a new program in February for teens aged 16-17 who wanted to enter the trades & PS did not work. Again ds#1 had an interview & was accepted immediately, even though he wouldn't turn 16 until April.
   
3. I enrolled ds#1 in the NZ Correspondence School to earn NCEA credits that he needs for the navy as his polytech course won't cover the basic maths & English credits he needs.
   
4. I have taken a big step back in "guiding" both my boys, thus requiring my dh to step forward. Both boys have really responded to this. It has NOT been easy for me to stay quiet when I would have handled something differently, but I can see later that dh was right.
   

 

 

Ds#1 was never a good student & never a hard worker. Since he started at polytech he has begun to ask for "homework" from me. We work daily on spelling before he heads off to polytech. He asked for this. Ds#1 works daily on his 3 correspondence courses as "homework" after finishing polytech & does 2 lessons in each on mondays as he has no class that day. Ds#1 has been using what he's learned at polytech around our house.

 

One thing that has made the biggest difference is limiting "electronic" entertainment. This must be earned in all cases for ds#1. If he spends regular time with any electronic entertainment his attitude takes a nose dive! I only take away activities for extreme issues (such as stealing) but electronic entertainment gets removed for even just bad atttitude.

 

JMHO,

[Melissa in Australia]

I remind my ds16 when he is slacking off, that if he wants, he can go slow and spend an extra year with me teaching him. He is the one that says he is doing year 11 this year. I have told him which books he has to have finished by the end of next year, and if he hasn't got them done, than he will just have to take longer. this usually gets him working again, though I have to say the same thing every week!

I had actually planed at the beginning of the year that he would do open uni after finishing year 12, he was the one that wants to do it next year.

 

On a side note, have you thought of your son participating in the HEN homeschool team for the engineering challenge. they have made it into the state finals, and still have space for a few extra team members. My ds found it very inspiring,( especially as it was his bridge that brought the team points up enough to win)

[keptwoman]

Melissa, I didn't know they had vacancies, I'm sure he would love it!! What do I need to do?

[Melissa in Australia]

I will pm you the contact details

[anissa]

It really sounds like you are responding just right to your ds needs. I know what you mean about the sometimes difficult necessity of letting dad take over with the boys. I totally hear you about the electronic games too. My boys have great hurtles to jump to earn screen time and it is the first thing lost if attitudes stink. Hang in there. You are a super mom with super kids.

[keptwoman]

Just a quick update:

We sat down with J on Friday night and handed responsibility for his education over to him, with as much support from us as he needed. He said he felt that would help with motivation and I really think it has. He stopped working for that night, but finished off his French over the weekend and early today (Monday) was at his desk with a new list of work for the week, working hard! Then he went and played his trombone that he hasn't touched for over a year!! It's school holidays here, so he has a weeks work scheduled but he will complete it over two weeks to give him days to catch up with his schooled friends, but so far so good.

Thanks again for all your thoughts and ideas.

[Deb in NZ]

I think sometimes our boys tell us by their attitude & behavior when they are ready to begin to take up the "reins" to their lives. Sometimes us mothers don't clearly recognise the signs. Dads seem to see it often before we do. Good job, by beinging supportive enough to hand over control to your ds. He'll be right, mate ;)