Let's talk about teaching history...

[PeterPan]

Ok, I'm doing the thing I don't normally do, which is posting on this board. My dd is what she is (neither profoundly gifted nor merely bright), but we'll just leave it at that. My main trouble is history. If some brave soul here LIKES history and has some clue how you interact with history with a kid who LOVES history and is rather brainy about it, please clue me in. Disclaimer: I HATE history, and most of the things I've tried leave me incredibly frustrated. She has basically asked me to leave her alone with a pile of the books and some activity books. It seems I ought to be doing more than that. So if you have a dc in the 4th-8th grade range, how have you handled history? I could really use some fresh perspective.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Please...will you send her to me? We would have so much fun. Heck, I might even pay you. :lol:

 

Absolutely leave her alone with a pile of books. Make sure though that they are various books on the same topic. She needs to be getting various points of view about the same events.

 

Primary source documents- this is key. You can find all you need online. You can also buy books and kits that focus on them if you want to.

 

Activity books- Critical Thinking Company makes some excellent workbooks that focus on critical thinking and history. I usually do not recommend specific history books, but I think these are fantastic.

 

Hands on- Scholastic makes some hands on books like pop up reports that might or might not be too childish for a 4th grade girl. Making dioramas is something many girls like to do for special projects and can be heavily infused with research. What color marker comes closest to the actual red color of the stripe on Titanic? Building models - even paper models- is a good hands on activity. Lapbooking works very well with history too.

 

Don't forget videos. I do not recommend historically based movies unless you are willing to sit down and talk about the historical inaccuracies that appear in them (they are great for this purpose, though). I treat documentaries the same way I treat books- I try to find more than one on the same topic.

 

Field trips- go SEE some of the palces where things happened, or buildings/artifacts from the time period if possible. Encourage your dd to pick people's brains at the places you visit.

 

You want to avoid pretty much anything labeled "Social Studies". This usually means BBB- basic, biased, and boring.

[asta]

Oh yes, videos.

 

We just watched "Rome" by the History Channel, and it was fabulous. They did a great job of weaving together the myriad bits DS had read. He had quite a few "ah ha" moments. Then again, he's very visual oriented.

 

 

asta

[cworthy]

I agree -- lots of books, as many as she can take in, including historical fiction. Re: the hands-on items, we are doing a modified :001_huh: Sonlight for sixth grade (starting in June) and I knew I needed to incorporate more kinesthetic activities. We have a list of things planned (mummifying a chicken and such) but I also found a bunch of Usborne cut-out models on the FS board here. My son just completed the American Fort (just for fun) and could not wait to get started on the next one. For detail-oriented kids, these models are terrific.

[cworthy]

One more thing: If you have access to Discovery Streaming (and if you don't subscribe, you may be able to get it through your state's educational television just like public schools -- that's what we do), it is a great resource for history. We have watched all kinds of newsreel footage and primary source videos this year for US history since 1860.

[PeterPan]

Ok, I admit I've never followed up on the discovery streaming, so I'm doing that right now. I've read about using original sources in WTM, but I hadn't really gotten that far. (Think ostrich with head in sand.) I'll do some more checking into that.

 

Cworthy, you've hit on something else I struggle with: the tension between dd's approach and mine. She's apparently not a detail person, and I am. That's the nicest way of putting it, haha... I'm a big picture person, theoretical, and like trivia. She has a sense of time and focuses on relationships. It actually matters to her who the mother was, how they were raised, etc. So no, she doesn't like the usborne models like that. She's sort of finicky and doesn't like paper crafts in general. She's basically asked if we could halt the Time Travellers stuff, so I've reverted back to my original VP card-driven plan using Abeka4 and Story of the USA (the spine series from SL3/4) as spines. It would have been fine a year ago, but it just does NOT fit her now. And the real issue is the constant tension I feel between the perceived value of memorizing the information on the VP worksheets for the cards and her lack of enjoyment in that exercise. Sometimes I want to throw inhibition to the wind and just let her do things her way, but I've become concerned that her lack of attention to detail, her own immaturity at nailing specifics or the important specifics, could come back to bite her in the end. If you know a lot but not the specific things you need to know, then you still don't know what you NEED to know to have nailed things at that level. And yet truly, the VP worksheets seem to suck our joy. Or maybe it's our bad attitude toward them?

 

And I struggle with what direction you go in making history fit the history-savvy. For instance, Angelina (cajun classical here on the boards) has said she has political discussions with her ds. Well my dd isn't into politics. She wants to know who the mother was, how she raised him, how his descendants turned out, etc. She's a girl, lol. I guess it's a breadth vs. depth thing. I continue to think she needs more depth, and yet the question becomes how much to require to stick if you put her into that depth. It's not enough just to read a book. I know things will stick, but is VP right that you could do all that and not nail the basics?

 

When I took her to the Cincy convention, she actually liked All American History, which really blew my mind considering its dry reputation. You know, maybe I'm making this too hard and could just add it as a spine to our reading?

 

And this is a sideways step, but it seems as I'm looking through the VP catalog at the 6th grade history listings, the books for 1850 to present, that those books, especially the ones on Anne Frank, etc., are really not appropriate to a newly 10 yo. I don't know, am I just coddling her? She's not particularly sensitive, but some things are just horrible and weighty, making them best left for later, don't you think? Like just because they CAN read it doesn't mean they SHOULD. And that gets back to that issue of depth vs. breadth. At some point you can't keep going so deep as they are able because it just plain overwhelms them. That's what happened to us when we first started VP. And yet she needs the depth. No, she needs the THOUGHT. I think that's what is bugging me most, that she has facts with no thought saving what she brings to it herself. You know, I could pull out that American History Homework book. That would give me enough big picture to be able to discuss things a little and encourage synthesis. We do have a timeline going. The TT stuff promoted some synthesis, but it's just too young for her. The text is very average (illogical in points and coverage, about the same writing level as Hakim but drier) and not satisfying, and the activities have become repetitious, the same on each cd. (board game every time, paper version of some real thing every time, color these dress-up dolls every time)

 

Well does that give you a better picture? I know somewhere here said her 10 yo read AAH, so I was hoping she'd notice this thread and discuss. I've always considered myself a facilitator of her learning, not a spoonfeeder, so that's my primary goal. But I want to make sure I'm doing enough of the basics (nailing stuff, mapping, whatever) that she's gaining the part she wouldn't naturally do on her own. It doesn't seem to me reading books is enough. Really, I want and need a textbook, something I can handle. Omnibus should be easier in that respect. VP Elementary I've always had a love/hate relationship with; its flexibility dumps too much responsibility in my lap. Yet something like Scholars just wouldn't fit. In other words, I hate teaching history. TOG seems like VP on steroids, yet even that I'm not sure is quite right, and I'm not sure why.

[Jenny in Florida]

However, he is very bright and likes history a lot. We've found the best approach is what I refer to as kaleidoscopic. I give him lots and lots of books, fiction and non-fiction and set him reading. (I do take the time over the summer before to map it all out, though, so that he's reading more or less about the same thing in all the books.)

 

Then, I hit Netflix and find some DVDs that tie in.

 

Then, I look around for field trips, museum exhibits and so on.

 

Each day, I ask him about what he read, what he thought was most interesting, what he learned that was new, etc.

 

Once a week, he does a worksheet so that I have some record of what he did.

 

That's it.

 

In addition, he has free reign to do any projects he wishes, and I make myself (and my wallet) available to acquire supplies. RIght now, he's particularly interested in making costumes and (sadly) weapons from various places and times.

 

I was not a history lover when I was a kid, and I know now that was largely because of the way it was taught. I always, always loved historical fiction, though, and could frequently be caught researching a historical period because I found it interesting in a novel. I've now just about decided that, if I go back to college, I'll likely be a history major.

 

Oh, and my daughter seriously considered a history minor. She called me the other day after she took the final for this semester's history course to tell me that she would have been able to pass that final on the basis of what she learned with me.

 

I'm consistently amazed at how much they absorb from this approach.

[Jenny in Florida]

She has a sense of time and focuses on relationships. It actually matters to her who the mother was, how they were raised, etc.

 

I'm this way, too. Okay, I'll tell one of those embarassing stories on myself:

 

When I was a kid, I loved the Robin Hood legends. I was never into weaponry, but I even demanded and got a toy bow and arrow set so that I could run around being Maid Marrian. But it wasn't until I read A Proud Taste for Scarlet and Miniver that I understood who King Richard was. And, because I was fascinated by Eleanor and remembered the facts and dates of her life, I could then put the whole thing in historical context.

 

And for years, the only way I could remember approximate dates for Queen Elizabeth I's reign was knowing that Shakespeare was an Elizabethan playwright.

 

I need those connections, and people are much more interesting to me than wars and dates.

[PeterPan]

Jenny, thanks, that makes a lot of sense to me! That's sort of how we've done things for years, though looser in a way that fit the age. I like your ideas for tightening it up a bit and having some accountability without losing the self-driven aspect. It hadn't occurred to me to do the VP worksheet at the END of the week, duh. What is the worksheet your ds does? Is it something you made or something you bought? See that's what I needed, new ways to use the same stuff. A textbook approach would fit *me* but not her. :(

[Jenny in Florida]

What is the worksheet your ds does? Is it something you made or something you bought?

 

He's doing a mix of stuff this year. I had bought the History Scribe/History Scholar stuff a few years ago. At the time, neither kid liked them much. I did pull up a few to use this year, though, when I couldn't find anything more engaging.

 

For the most part, I poked around online for stuff to match each week's reading. For some weeks, I made up my own fill-in-the-blank sheets. When they were available, I adapted quizzes from the books and magazines I have him reading (Learning Through History, for example). When all else failed, I used the Discovery Channel Puzzlemaker [ http://puzzlemaker.discoveryeducation.com/ ] to create something.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

those books, especially the ones on Anne Frank, etc., are really not appropriate to a newly 10 yo. I don't know, am I just coddling her? She's not particularly sensitive, but some things are just horrible and weighty, making them best left for later, don't you think?

 

My dd has an interest in the holocaust. She read Diary of Anne Frank at age 6 - BUT she had also been exposed to the ideas and situations in that book previously and her father and I knew she was able to handle the information. At the same time, I do know many 10 year olds who would do better to wait to read the book. It all depends on your individual child and what she is prepared to handle. As a mom, you are the best person to make that determination.

[ladydusk]

Anne Frank, etc., are really not appropriate to a newly 10 yo. I don't know, am I just coddling her? She's not particularly sensitive, but some things are just horrible and weighty, making them best left for later, don't you think?

 

My 4th grade teacher read Diary of Anne Frank to us, and it sent me into a lifetime of studying Holocaust & WWII history specifically and modern history in general ... I read everything in the public library's children's WWII section. This was the first history I remember being exposed to.

 

My advice is to not let her wallow in one time period forever. I wish someone had made me despecialize (even in college).

 

You might also want to supplement with something that teaches the tools of the historian like Brimwood Press.

[Jenny in Florida]

And this is a sideways step, but it seems as I'm looking through the VP catalog at the 6th grade history listings, the books for 1850 to present, that those books, especially the ones on Anne Frank, etc., are really not appropriate to a newly 10 yo.

 

As others have said, you need to know your kid. However, I will say that we did a year of "social justice" stuff when my daughter was 9-turning-10. She read Anne Frank's Diary that year and had no trouble with it. We also read aloud together a book called Malka [ http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Malka/Mirjam-Pressler/e/9780142402696/?itm=2 ], which in some ways was much more disturbing.

 

My daughter, however, points to that year as one of her favorite years for history. In fact, it was that year she mentioned when she told me about being able to pass the course final.

 

As I recall, we covered that material with my son, too, who would have been about 6. But I think he read one of those DK readers about Anne Frank.

 

They both watched the movie.

 

All of this to say that I really do think it just depends on the child.

[Catwoman]

Activity books- Critical Thinking Company makes some excellent workbooks that focus on critical thinking and history. I usually do not recommend specific history books, but I think these are fantastic.

 

Are there any specific titles you would recommend?

 

Thanks!

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

My main trouble is history. If some brave soul here LIKES history and has some clue how you interact with history with a kid who LOVES history and is rather brainy about it, please clue me in.

 

What have you used for History so far? Is there a specific time period your dd would like to study, or that you would like to focus upon?

 

Cat

[Ravin]

I'd say leave her with a stack of books and some activity books, with the understanding that you'll require weekly essays about what she's read/learned. Provide guidance as to the structure of the essays so that it's appropriate to her writing skill level, perhaps somewhat easier than whatever she's doing in LA. Could be anything from a simple narration from a book each week, to a topical essay using multiple sources which she needs to cite.

 

You might guide her to a theme, such as social justice, religions, government, or women in history, or particular periods or regions to focus on. Keeping a timeline can be a good way to keep context. You might also consider Jackdaw Packs or something like them, to look at primary source materials, or unit studies on archaeology, historical research methods, and the history of the actual study of history. Getting her input on what themes to cover, balanced with what you think is important to learn, would be good. Include museum trips, and perhaps arrange for her to volunteer or become involved in your local historical society or historical re-enactment groups.

 

In short, if it's a big interest, let her run with it, and just focus on keeping track of where she goes, as well as opening up new paths for her to explore. Let her be independent.

[Donna]

When I was in school, I absolutely hated history. I hated having to memorize names and dates which was all our history consisted of. I was a biology major in college but took a couple history courses to fulfill requirements. In one of those courses, I had a wonderful professor who brought history alive. In his class we discussed the people, how they lived, why they thought the way they thought, what was happening in other parts of the world that affected their thoughts and lives. Because of that class with that professor, I grew to love history and since that time have enjoyed reading books on history regularly in my life.

 

When I "teach" history to my kids, I try to present it in the way that professor presented it. We discuss how the people lived, read real documents written during the time period when available, make meals with foods they might have eaten, discuss their dress, art, and music styles, etc... We do history portfolios so they can record what they are learning in a creative way and they keep a timeline...something I never did in school but through which I have learned so much about what happened when and how different events are interrelated.

 

We use "World History: The Human Odyssey" as a spine and the kids read various other writings through the year. I have a few art history books available to them as well as music history. We read myths and legends of the different civilizations as well.

[Rosie_0801]

Would you be more interested if you were to approach it from a different angle, like the history of food or something? That'll take you everywhere you need to go, because everyone in history has eaten food, and eaten that rather than something else, for very good reasons.

 

:)

Rosie

[Catwoman]

Would you be more interested if you were to approach it from a different angle, like the history of food or something? That'll take you everywhere you need to go, because everyone in history has eaten food, and eaten that rather than something else, for very good reasons.

 

:)

Rosie

 

If anyone is doing this, I would appreciate a heads-up when you get to the History of Doritos unit, as I will be more than happy to serve as a research subject for you.

 

I'll do anything I can to help fellow homeschoolers. ;)

 

(Ditto for the chapters on Ben & Jerry's and Dunkin Donuts.)

 

Cat

[PeterPan]

Thanks for all the ideas! I've been chewing on them and having little epiphanies about the differences between the way she does things and the way I do. Just acknowledging that I'm fundamentally a textbook person, and she's NOT, makes me feel betterI'll just have to balance the two and get us through. Thanks for all the ideas!!

[KarenNC]

Colonial Williamsburg has a wonderful series of electronic field trips that we got through Homeschool Buyers' Co-op quite inexpensively. They also have a lot of podcasts regarding specifics of history from that era. If you can find historical sites, many times they will have educational materials related to that site which includes info on families that lived there, details of their lives, etc. I have some for colonial/early America, particularly the back country in the South that I can pass along.

 

Is she a Girl Scout by any chance? We are having fun going through and working on badges or patches specific to various historical periods for American history with my daughter. If you look at the Council's Own badges and patches (not necessarily the ones in the general handbook) there are all sorts of things that are related to studying various periods of history. They are often designed to highlight some historical event or person related to the particular area of the country, but usually any Girl Scout can earn them. If this is at all of interest, let me know and I can email you the list I have put together of some of the various badges, patches, etc that are available.

[asta]

The history of Doritos.

:lol::lol:

 

Launched nationally in 1967, Doritos proved successful, but additional market research revealed that many consumers outside the Southwest and West considered the chip to be too bland--not spicy enough for what was perceived as a Mexican snack. Frito-Lay therefore developed taco-flavored Doritos, which were introduced nationally in 1968 and were a tremendous success. Four years later, national distribution began of nacho cheese-flavored Doritos, which were also a hit. Ironically, with increasing popularity, Doritos became less and less identified as a "Mexican snack," a development that echoed the earlier brand history of Fritos. During the 1970s Doritos became Frito-Lay's number two brand in terms of sales, trailing only Lay's. This spectacular growth was fueled by heavy advertising expenditures--as much as half of the company's overall $23 million ad budget in the mid-1970s. The "Crunch" campaign began in the early 1970s, and gained added impetus in 1976 when Avery Schrieber began crunching Doritos on national television.

[cworthy]

Sorry -- it has been a crazy week.

 

We did The Diary of Anne Frank this year (grade 5), but you know your child best. I think it would have been too heavy for my daughter at this age.

 

I was thinking about something else that might be enjoyable for you both. We try (though I don't do as well as I should) to do as much living history type stuff as we can. This week, we went to our local American Legion War Museum with a homeschool group. Veterans were there from WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Desert Storm. They told stories and explained things to the kids (and us!) that we could never get from a book.

 

We also have a Chautauqua group here that presents scholars in character as historic figures. (http://greenvillechautauqua.org/index.html) It's awesome, but my son is just getting to the point where he can sit still for that long. :001_smile:

 

I don't feel like any of that helps, but I hope it does.

[Rosie_0801]

If anyone is doing this, I would appreciate a heads-up when you get to the History of Doritos unit, as I will be more than happy to serve as a research subject for you.

 

I'll do anything I can to help fellow homeschoolers. ;)

 

(Ditto for the chapters on Ben & Jerry's and Dunkin Donuts.)

 

Cat

 

I think serving as a research subject on the topic of Doritos would be biology, not history. We would have to dissect you.

 

Heheh,

Rosie