BMW Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I have a son in 4th grade. I get emails almost every week about him misbehaving at school. For a while he would mark in books, write on the desk, break pencils... he wouldn't stay in his seat... Then he would play with anything in his desk, in his backpack, etc. and the teacher kept as much as she could away from him. Then the emails started coming in that he wont do what he is told, disrupts the class, has to be sent out of the classroom to work somewhere else, etc. The teacher and I get along great. But, son is not obeying and is in trouble a lot at school. Dh took away the ds completely for a few months. Today I get an email... he kept making noises again. It was state testing. Then he took a sheet from our home to school and was running with it all around the playground. This is against school rules, too. A few weeks ago I found 4 molded sandwiches in the bottom of his backpack. He chose not to eat them at lunch. I found 3 more hiding under seats in the van. In this email the teacher says that a parent emailed her that my son never has food and is asking other children for their food to share and takes fruit from the cafeteria... and the teacher wants to know if we need help in this area. !!!! We make well over the amount for free food or even reduced lunches. I make breakfast each morning. I make sandwiches, provide snack crackers and fruit and sometimes cookies... Deep breath... I am SO not happy about this. WWYD... I feel like pulling him from school as soon as I can and homeschooling him. That would be easier. But, aside from that option... what would you do about the emails from the teacher? How would you handle it? Thanks, Bee, who is stretching... relaxing... going to stay calm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTMindy Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 ((((hugs)))) no advice, just big hugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela H in Texas Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Though I am FINE with the idea of pulling him, I am very concerned about his behavior. I would want to get to the bottom of that. Is he just impulsive and can't control himself? Is he being obnoxious in order to control the situation or an aspect of the situation? Is there something wrong....like something going on? an undiagnosed/treated issue? What does ds say about all this? How do y'all handle it each time something happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Though I am FINE with the idea of pulling him, I am very concerned about his behavior. I would want to get to the bottom of that. Is he just impulsive and can't control himself? Is he being obnoxious in order to control the situation or an aspect of the situation? Is there something wrong....like something going on? an undiagnosed/treated issue? What does ds say about all this? How do y'all handle it each time something happens? I totally agree with Pamela; this sounds like a serious impulse control issue. Has your son been evaluated for adhd? Other issues? I think I'd start by going to the doctor. The emails are only the results of the underlying problem. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Though I am FINE with the idea of pulling him, I am very concerned about his behavior. I would want to get to the bottom of that. Is he just impulsive and can't control himself? Is he being obnoxious in order to control the situation or an aspect of the situation? Is there something wrong....like something going on? an undiagnosed/treated issue? What does ds say about all this? How do y'all handle it each time something happens? :iagree: He sounds much like my 5th grader. The only difference is that my ds was often able to control his impulses at school, but not at home. Which makes homeschooling extra exciting 'round here! :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 This may be harsh, but the FIRST thing I would do is march my ds up to the teacher and let *him* tell her about the food issue in front of me. That whole situation is completely unacceptable, imo. That would be my starting point. Then the hammer would really come down. Hard and fast. But that's just here.;) It doesn't sound to me like a school/homeschooling issue. More of a discipline matter, really. What happens at home when he gets in trouble at school? If there aren't consequences at home for misbehavior at school, the misbehavior isn't going to stop. The school really can't do anything....it's the parent's responsibility. Does he act this way at home? Is he obedient? Is there consistent discipline with known consequences? Did taking away the ds (whatever that is!) make a difference in his behavior? Homeschooling him will and won't be easier. :001_smile: You will be able to teach him constantly about behavior. Teachers can't....there's just too much on their plates. But if he misbehaves at home like he does at school, he's not going to learn much and he's going to disrupt your homeschooling. If there isn't consistent discipline (teaching), your days are going to be miserable. Maybe some other mom will be able to give more insight into this or a book title. I taught for a long time and really, the teacher is telling you all these things so you will do something. If she or the school could handle it, you wouldn't be getting the emails. :grouphug: I know this isn't easy. Personally, I would bring him home. Nobody loves your dc like you do. Nobody wants them to succeed as much as you want them to. Although we all want all dc to grow up to be contributing members of society, nobody has the influence on them like you do. (no pressure here! LOL) I would work on behavior for the first few weeks, though. Find a book that fits with your philosophy of parenting, and do what you need to do to make sure ds obeys. Make sure your dh is on board and the discipline is consistent from both of you. It's time to nip the misbehavior in the bud. It's not going to get better on its own. This gig is hard work! :lol: More:grouphug::grouphug: ETA: seeing the dr is a great idea just to make sure there are no physical problems. I tend to forget that part too often. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui in mo Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Is your son like this at home too? It sounds a lot like my 6 yo son whom I'm beginning to suspect of having ADD. I'm reading & using a great book called the Nurtured Heart Approach http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Workbook-Interactive/dp/0967050758/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236168652&sr=8-2 It's basic premise is that difficult children get a lot of energy and reinforcement from the negative interactions from their parents and teachers when they are being disciplined for their intense misbehaving. It's as if the intense child comes to believe that the only way they get "quality" interaction from parents, etc. is through when being reprimanded, lectured, yelled at, etc. They don't get nearly as intense reactions for being good. So the authors teach how to quit giving intense energy to the disruptive behavior and instead give much more focus starting on what small bits of appropriate behavior that you can find. It also teaches how to give consequences in a much less energetic way. Their example is a referee in a game. The rules are clear, if they are broken the consequence is also clear and quick & unemotional. I haven't quite gotten to that part of the book yet, but just working on amplifying the positives I can find with my son seems to really be helping. He seems to be able to cooperate better and I feel a lot better and calmer (more than I used to anyway) about things. We aren't "there" yet, but I like what I'm seeing so far. The book also tells you how to set this system up with the school system. If you read this book and like it's approach you may want to pull your son out of the school for the rest of this year to work on this at home and see how far it takes you. Then maybe reintroduce him to school next fall if that is the best for your family. The authors really discourage starting with ADD medications although they aren't completely against them. Just certainly meds should not be the only approach. I'm going to see how far this approach helps my son once I finally get all the way through it before I seek further help. The book I linked above is a workbook. They also have a main book that goes with it, but the workbook is actually easier to read, understand and begin to implement. HTH, Jacqui Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 OK, your description sounds like symptoms of ADD, with food sensitivities and possibly SI. First, deal with the food at school. I'd let the school know he has food and that no one is to share with him no matter what. It will not hurt him to not have lunch, if he really does forget his lunch. You feed him breakfast. He eats again when he gets home. So, if he has to miss a meal it's not that bad. Next, I recommend you doing some research on ADD. Even if the dx doesn't fit you will find behavioral interventions that may be perfect for you child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 using a great book called the Nurtured Heart Approach http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Workbook-Interactive/dp/0967050758/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236168652&sr=8-2It's basic premise is that difficult children get a lot of energy and reinforcement from the negative interactions from their parents and teachers when they are being disciplined for their intense misbehaving. It's as if the intense child comes to believe that the only way they get "quality" interaction from parents, etc. is through when being reprimanded, lectured, yelled at, etc. They don't get nearly as intense reactions for being good. This sounds very interesting. There are certainly adults, both employees and patients, that fit this habit. I know when I trained my puppy (yes, I know people aren't dogs, but some things really do overlap) I saw other people scold a puppy until it did the "right things" and then stop giving it attention and go back to chatting with the person they were with in the park. I would scold my pup, but when she did the right thing I gave her huge amounts of sweet, cooey words, and happy rubs and pats...very emotional. I looked like a nut, but I got the best darn dog out of it, so well trained people gaped when they saw what she could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I have a son in 4th grade. I get emails almost every week about him misbehaving at school. For a while he would mark in books, write on the desk, break pencils... he wouldn't stay in his seat... Then he would play with anything in his desk, in his backpack, etc. and the teacher kept as much as she could away from him. Then the emails started coming in that he wont do what he is told, disrupts the class, has to be sent out of the classroom to work somewhere else, etc. The teacher and I get along great. But, son is not obeying and is in trouble a lot at school. Dh took away the ds completely for a few months. Today I get an email... he kept making noises again. It was state testing. Then he took a sheet from our home to school and was running with it all around the playground. This is against school rules, too. A few weeks ago I found 4 molded sandwiches in the bottom of his backpack. He chose not to eat them at lunch. I found 3 more hiding under seats in the van. In this email the teacher says that a parent emailed her that my son never has food and is asking other children for their food to share and takes fruit from the cafeteria... and the teacher wants to know if we need help in this area. !!!! We make well over the amount for free food or even reduced lunches. I make breakfast each morning. I make sandwiches, provide snack crackers and fruit and sometimes cookies... Deep breath... I am SO not happy about this. WWYD... I feel like pulling him from school as soon as I can and homeschooling him. That would be easier. But, aside from that option... what would you do about the emails from the teacher? How would you handle it? Thanks, Bee, who is stretching... relaxing... going to stay calm... Quite honestly if pulling him out is not an option you may want to consider arranging with the teacher for you to drop in the class at anytime and sit in the class. Let your ds know that you will be at the school to sit in on his class to make sure his behaviour improves and then follow through. I had to do this with my ds and it worked well. When he got into middle school dh let him know that we have arranged with the principal to drop in and sit with him in any class if he started acting up in class. We have not recevied a note, email or phone call since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Thanks, ladies. I have another son with adhd and I definately know what adhd looks like and a child having an inability to settle down and focus. This son is high energy and does not like anyone telling him what to do... He wakes up sometimes with that look in his eyes that says, "No one is telling me anything today" Makes life interesting!! He is one who wants control and I think this is his way of keeping some control in his life. He cycles through this... gets head strong and fights all authority (not loud fighting, just a continual disobedience), gets consequences one after the other, then settles down in obedience and is GREAT for anywhere from a few days to even a couple of weeks, then it starts again. I think underneath it all is that his entire first 8 years of life were watching his mom battle cancer, suffer and die. When she was feeling good, he was spoiled. When she was feeling bad, he continued to get away with all sorts of mischief. Yes, he is in counseling. He has come a loooong way in the past couple of years, really. I have planned on homeschooling him this next year. I keep telling myself that if the emails continue, I'll bring him home sooner... He will settle down and he will obey, but you have to be on top of it... all the time! So, dh and I will talk about bringing him home now. I will make some calls to a homeschool charter, which I would have to use next year anyway, and see if he can be "signed up" this late in the year so that it looks like he is transferring to a private school. I have read and like the nurtured heart book. All things said, this boy is so dear to my heart. He can be really kind, thoughtful and even hard working... when he wants to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I think underneath it all is that his entire first 8 years of life were watching his mom battle cancer, suffer and die. When she was feeling good, he was spoiled. When she was feeling bad, he continued to get away with all sorts of mischief. Yes, he is in counseling. Oh, yes, I would think the loss of his mother and watching her suffer still haunts him and that the lax discipline during those years has affected him. It is good he is seeing a counselor and that he has you realizing that he needs help. Are all of you as a family seeing the counselor, too? It's easier to come up with good solutions to problems if everyone gives input about the daily trials and tribulations. Regarding the discarded sandwiches -- have you asked him if he would prefer to eat something else? Maybe the two of you could sit down together and figure out some other possibilities. I did this with my son, and it worked wonders. FWIW, my son and his classmates "barter" their lunches, usually snacks like cookies, almost daily. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Does the counselor he sees have suggestions for discipline at school? BTW, my younger son's does not allow sharing of food. Too many food allergy issues out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 It IS kind of risky, my son sharing food because of his peanut allergy. The only challenge I have with offering him other lunch choices is that I am daily sending 8 students out the door with lunches. It is expensive. I feel that they can have sandwiches, wheat thins or cheez-its with a piece of fruit and if I occasionally swap out for bagels or bake some treats to go along, that is great! At home they eat fruit and veggies daily, too. So, I'm not really one for making alterations for individuals... The teacher and I have worked well throughout the year. Son gets consequences as school for disobedience... he misses recess occasionally (if he doesn't complete work) and he gets sent out of class for disturbing others. She emails because that is effective for us - son sees me read the email, knows that teacher and I write to each other and sees his dad read them... He knows that he isn't going to get away with much... yet, he continues... BUT like I mentioned, he has got much better and I know he will continue. His dad gave the consequence of taking away his ds (a nintendo video game system) for 3 months. And now any day that I get an email from the teacher that he has been in trouble, he has restricted activities at home (mild restriction... I think that the teacher/school has to provide the consequence for the most part). But this incident really bothered me because another parent thought that I wasn't giving him food... In the meantime, I have faxed through a request to join a homeschool charter from spring break forward (and continuing next year). If they accept us, we will transition out of ps next week, use spring break to get prepared, then move forward. If they don't accept us, I'll just keep on communicating with that teacher!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 You might want to work with the school to provide a separate table for the peanut allergy sufferers. That's what our school does, and they take it very seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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