KJB Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) I think the freak-out is premature. A few links for you: Second Hand Stores Clarification http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/37303914.html Thrift Stores Exempt http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-thrift9-2009jan09,0,7588285.story Edited January 9, 2009 by KJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crissy Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I haven't read as much as I should on the topic, but my concern is not as great for merchants of second-hand items. I am more concerned with independent businesses and hand crafters. It is my understanding that this law will have a significant impact on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) I think they are going to end up being exempt, but I could be wrong. I read that an exemption for them is likely. I'll try and find the article. Added later: I can't find the article I read earlier but I think if the components used for a handcraft were certified than the new product or resulting hand-crafted object would be exempt. I could definitely be wrong about this. One thing that seems to be focused on especially are children's toys so hand-made toys could certainly suffer. Edited January 9, 2009 by KJB Wanted to add: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) I am worried about curriculum providers! (Winterpromise to be exact.) Very worried. I am tempted to buy my exclusives for two programs now even though I do not intend to use them for 2-4 years. Can anyone address this issue? Is lead found in some inks? Just wondering how it would get into our textbooks. So you are allowed to use lead based ink to print a book, but not if it is intended for children? Why wouldn't our publishers be able to buy paper and ink that is already known to not contain lead? Or do we not know that about any ink and paper we buy? What if I print my own worksheets for my kids? Am I exposing them to lead? x-posted with a new title I really don't get it. It seems to me it would be easier and safter to just make using lead at all illegal from the beginning. My kids look at my books sometimes too. Edited January 9, 2009 by Lovedtodeath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 It seems like they would be able to tell you if they will have to comply or not. I would think they would test if required and then raise their prices accordingly. Of course, I'm speaking through my hat as I really don't know what will happen. Here's an excerpt from an LA Times article: "Outraged thrift store owners blitzed the commission with objections, and on Tuesday the two-member panel gave preliminary approval of several measures to exempt products made from natural materials, such as cotton and wood, from the rules. But the commission said those exemptions would not be formally adopted before the testing requirement went into effect Feb. 10, fueling continued protests. On Thursday the agency backed away even more, issuing a statement saying that "sellers of used children's products, such as thrift stores and consignment stores, are not required to certify that those products meet the new lead limits . . . or new toy standards." Commission members Thomas Moore and Nancy Nord could not be reached for comment. But a statement issued by the commission suggested the retreat was driven by practical concerns. "The agency intends to focus its enforcement efforts on products of greatest risk and largest exposure," the statement said." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejily Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I think the freak-out is premature. A few links for you: Second Hand Stores Clarification http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/37303914.html Thrift Stores Exempt http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-thrift9-2009jan09,0,7588285.story These are great links to help aid understanding this new law and the changes that have already been made to it, thanks! However, I would respectfully disagree that the freak-out was premature. I think the "freak out" is what got them to reconsider who would be required to comply. From the second article (emphasis mine): After a barrage of complaints, federal regulators shifted gears Thursday and said they would no longer require that used children's clothing, toys and other items sold at secondhand stores be tested for lead. ... Officials with the Consumer Product Safety Commission initially said that thrift stores couldn't sell any clothes, toys or other merchandise for children younger than 12 that had not been tested for lead starting Feb. 10, as required by the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act passed by Congress last year. Outraged thrift store owners blitzed the commission with objections, and on Tuesday the two-member panel gave preliminary approval of several measures to exempt products made from natural materials, such as cotton and wood, from the rules. But the commission said those exemptions would not be formally adopted before the testing requirement went into effect Feb. 10, fueling continued protests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 The law was just so poorly written, I couldn't believe it even passed. You're right that people "freaking out" probably positively changed the outcome. I guess a more appropriate way to describe my feeling is, it's too soon to make life changes based on this law that has yet to be implemented. Some smart people are clearly waking up those that slept through the passing of this law initially. And in general, I am in the "don't freak-out" camp of life. Kudos to those who do and keep the world running smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejily Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 The law was just so poorly written, I couldn't believe it even passed. You're right that people "freaking out" probably positively changed the outcome. I guess a more appropriate way to describe my feeling is, it's too soon to make life changes based on this law that has yet to be implemented. Some smart people are clearly waking up those that slept through the passing of this law initially. And in general, I am in the "don't freak-out" camp of life. Kudos to those who do and keep the world running smoothly. Yes, amen to that. :001_smile: I'm not one of those freak-out people, either, but, like you, am glad someone was raising the alarm! (I also can't believe it ever passed as written!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacqui in mo Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Also the second article said this: When the Feb. 10 deadline comes, we're going to see books taken off shelves of classrooms, libraries and bookstores," Adler said. I'd say the freaking out should continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Yep, freakout should continue until they are willing to just insist that anything (for adult, children, or simply basic materials that could be turned into one or the other) is within limits. To put the burden on people here that are using items legally sold here is wrong. If they have a problem with lead in ink, then they need to insist that ink be tested within limits by the ink manufacturers, not the small businesses that go and use that ink. Same with material and other components of clothing/toy/book production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I would think that the manufacturers of ink and paper (who have a wide customer base) would test their products and be able to provide certifications to the users of their products (such as WP), thus meeting the standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda in TX Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I would think that the manufacturers of ink and paper (who have a wide customer base) would test their products and be able to provide certifications to the users of their products (such as WP), thus meeting the standard. That's the thing. They are not marketing ink and paper to children. They are marketing it to manufacturers. The testing responsibility resides with those manufacturing products intended for children. Another example is fabric, buttons, etc. Those products are not marketed to children, but the woman who makes cute little dresses and sells them at etsy IS marketing them for use by children, so she is responsible for the testing. I would like to think that the big manufacturers will test their products, but there will be nobody forcing them to do so. Especially if those products come from overseas. You think China is going to test products they're not legally required to test? I highly doubt it. I am not one to freak out. I have never written to my congressman/senators about anything before. I am, however, taking this very seriously. They have made good changes so far, but they cannot be done yet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 That's the thing. They are not marketing ink and paper to children. They are marketing it to manufacturers. The testing responsibility resides with those manufacturing products intended for children. Another example is fabric, buttons, etc. Those products are not marketed to children, but the woman who makes cute little dresses and sells them at etsy IS marketing them for use by children, so she is responsible for the testing. I would like to think that the big manufacturers will test their products, but there will be nobody forcing them to do so. Especially if those products come from overseas. You think China is going to test products they're not legally required to test? I highly doubt it. I am not one to freak out. I have never written to my congressman/senators about anything before. I am, however, taking this very seriously. They have made good changes so far, but they cannot be done yet!! You worded this so well. THIS is the problem :iagree: The burden is dumped on the little guy, not the those actually making or bringing the basics into the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thanks for posting this. I, too, think it's too early to freak out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowWhite Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Also the second article said this: I'd say the freaking out should continue. If freaking out is defined as using our democratic right to make our voices heard to our "government of the people" which is supposed to be "for the people," then I say the freaking out should continue. So long as the unreasonable ramifications of these guidelines continue to exist, the law should be questioned and the appropriate officials should catch tons of hassle from their constituents. It's a TERRIBLY poorly written piece of legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 and since I used the term first, I feel obliged to define it. I define "freaking out" as altering your life or decision making criteria before the law has been implemented. I think meaningfully seeking out what the law entails and then trying to help shape the law into what it should be is admirable. This is not "freaking out" but is instead a worthy endeavor. OTOH, forwarding to your dear friend KJB a million emails about how KJB should buy all kinds of things now because they won't be available soon seems a little like "freaking out" and is the kind of behavior I am trying to discourage.:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate CA Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I would think that the manufacturers of ink and paper (who have a wide customer base) would test their products and be able to provide certifications to the users of their products (such as WP), thus meeting the standard. It is not just the paper though - it is also things like spiral binding and plastic covers on curriculum. Those things also must be tested. I have written all three of my reps and I certainly hope they do something further on this insane legislation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi @ Mt Hope Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I think I'm completely misunderstanding this new law. What about products already on the shelves at stores? It doesn't matter to me if it is Target or our wonderful local toy shop. If the law really went into effect as is, would these products have to be destroyed (because it isn't economically reasonable to have each one tested)? How does a store (if they can afford it) get new (approved) product on their shelves immediately? How on earth could our economy survive something like that, not to mention the monumental waste. Or... is it just new products being manufactured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PameliaSue Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 (edited) Here is a good link concerning handmade products and the laws affect on them: This link says they go to the land fill: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-thrift2-2009jan02,0,2083247.story More links on the issue: http://kidsproducts.suite101.com/article.cfm/new_law_effecting_sale_of_childrens_products http://www.handmadetoyalliance.org/Home Edited January 9, 2009 by PameliaSue added another link or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoughCollie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have written all three of my reps and I certainly hope they do something further on this insane legislation. I wrote to my congress critters too. I haven't heard back, probably because they haven't written a form letter about it which does not address my questions. RC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The problem I have read today though is even with thie exemption for thrift shops, is they don't have to test, but they will be held liable if an item they sold for use by a child under 12 turns out to not meet the lead requirements. It's double speak to placate people but doesn't give a true exemption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyboys Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 The problem I have read today though is even with thie exemption for thrift shops, is they don't have to test, but they will be held liable if an item they sold for use by a child under 12 turns out to not meet the lead requirements. It's double speak to placate people but doesn't give a true exemption. So it's kind of like a Russian roulette...maybe products will be okay, maybe no one will be effected....but the businesses are taking this chance if laws go into effect as stated. Before the very necessary Freak Out began to put some restraint into the law's breadth. I'm not sure what you meant by your term, KJB, it doesn't sound so great. Fwiw, I'm glad someone was on top of this to get people energized since I haven't heard too much to reassure me out of Congress lately that there are wise and thoughtful minds involved. What's extraordinary is that it's such a comprehensive measure -- how necessary is it really? We all want safe products, but I'm having a hard time imagining that trace amounts of lead in a spiral-bound book or a homemade soap will be detrimental to a young person. Or is this a tremendous overreaction to the Chinese manufacturing crimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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