Remorse and conversation

[SquirrellyMama]

How do you help your children feel remorse for something they have done wrong? I have a child who is mad at the world when he gets in trouble. I understand that feeling but how can I help him see that he needs to accept the punishment or talking to and come back without anger?

 

Seems like a tall order but I have 2 other children who do this. It is my 5 yr old ds who seems to have all the anger. He is the middle child (not sure if that makes a differenence) and the only boy.

 

My second question is about dinner conversation. How do you engage your children and husband in dinner conversation at the same time? My dh wants to talk to me when he gets home and is very short with the kids at dinner. I want to talk to all of them. Are there good subjects that all ages can talk about (3, 5, 7 and adult).

 

Kelly

[Peela]

How do you help your children feel remorse for something they have done wrong? I have a child who is mad at the world when he gets in trouble. I understand that feeling but how can I help him see that he needs to accept the punishment or talking to and come back without anger?

 

My son is like that too. I don't think you can change a child's basic way of processing things, but we try a lot to get our son to have empathy and see the world from other people's perspectives. Its an ongoing thing and generally, he can be very self centred. Our daughter is not like that. I think you just gotta love them as they come and work at it.

 

 

 

My second question is about dinner conversation. How do you engage your children and husband in dinner conversation at the same time? My dh wants to talk to me when he gets home and is very short with the kids at dinner. I want to talk to all of them. Are there good subjects that all ages can talk about (3, 5, 7 and adult).

 

 

Sounds to me like your husband needs some down time, and to connect with you, after being out all day. I would find a way to honour that without expecting him to be available for everyone immediately.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

My second question is about dinner conversation. How do you engage your children and husband in dinner conversation at the same time? My dh wants to talk to me when he gets home and is very short with the kids at dinner. I want to talk to all of them. Are there good subjects that all ages can talk about (3, 5, 7 and adult).

 

Sometimes we play a little game called High/Low. Everyone goes around the table and tells their high point of the day and their low point of the day. It really is an awesome way to get to know your children better. And a lot of times the things people bring up are great conversation topics.

[melissel]

How do you help your children feel remorse for something they have done wrong? I have a child who is mad at the world when he gets in trouble. I understand that feeling but how can I help him see that he needs to accept the punishment or talking to and come back without anger?

 

I think this is something that often comes with maturity, and you can only work on it with patience and understanding. My DD6 is often mad at some outside factor when she falls or gets hurt or messes up a picture. I find that when they're already angry or in trouble and the problem is fresh in their minds is not the time to discuss their need to accept discipline. I bring those sorts of things up when we're in a close, quiet mood, and I also try to model them very openly--e.g., "Boy, Dad was really upset with me this morning for moving his mail from the end of the table because then he couldn't find that paper he needed. I was pretty mad that he was angry with me, but then I realized that I shouldn't have touched his stuff and apologized to him." I know that seems cheesy and manipulative, but I've seen results that I can directly attribute to the use of this tactic, so I think it works, at least around here. My kids, at least, tend to pay closer attention to lessons I impart in passing than they do when I'm in the process of actively disciplining them.

 

I struggle with stuff like this, because my extended family is very negative. They used to get together at family gatherings, and the whole conversation would center on what the stupid government was doing, and what idiot cut someone off in traffic, and how someone was offended or wronged at the grocery store the other day. My mom still attributes negative intent to everyone on the planet. I know it's ingrained in me, but I try to counter it when I'm able (and remember :()

 

Also, I think 5-year-olds in general are very self-centered. I wouldn't expect too much from him just yet in this area :D

Edited December 22, 2008 by melissel

[phathui5]

I think that remorse is something they grow into, as they start to understand other people's feelings.

 

how can I help him see that he needs to accept the punishment

 

Thinking more about it, being punished may be what's keeping remorse at bay. Instead of making him think about what he did and how it affects people, punishment turns his feelings to you and how he's mad.

Edited December 22, 2008 by phathui5

[SquirrellyMama]

Sounds to me like your husband needs some down time, and to connect with you, after being out all day. I would find a way to honour that without expecting him to be available for everyone immediately.

 

I agree and I try to talk with him before dinner. Sometimes I think he doesn't know how to talk with the kids and doesn't want to have a child's conversation. I'm trying to find ways of bringing him into their world more.

 

Kelly

[Chris in VA]

Oak Knoll Mom, my brother and sil used to play high/low with their kids--he passed away several years ago, but it was part of his parenting I always admired. Thanks for bringing up the memory.

I think it's an excellent way of starting conversation with kids at the table.

 

OP, do you have dinner as soon as Dad comes home? It sounds funny, but I always give my hubby at least 20 minutes before we eat, to change clothes, go potty (he spends most of the time in there! lol), and just take a mental moment to switch gears. Are you and your hubby getting enough...um...alone time? I don't mean to pry, but I would try to make sure there's some transition time for him, and some time for just you two to talk and...whatever the talk may lead to. :blush:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree with the others that it takes time for them to care more about the big picture than being upset they got in trouble.

 

HOWEVER, there are some kids that really need something different. Punishment tends to make a person think about themselves rather than others, the situation, etc. Some kids are extra sensitive about this and get way stuck on "me me me" and the anger that goes with it.

 

Honestly, this is a huge reason we turned away from punitive discipline. I didn't WANT to encourage those thoughts (though they, of course, happen to some degree regardless and for extra sensitive kids, too much still). We wanted them to think of solutions, fix situations, find ways to not get in that situation again, consider the other people involved, think about their REAL feelings, etc. I didn't want them all caught up in avoiding punishment or upset because they were punished. To me, it encourages selfishness and self-centeredness. So we dropped lectures, time outs, spanking, most removal of privilages, yelling, etc. We focused on working with them to help them do better. They had a partner in doing better that way.

 

Again, to some degree it happens. Part of that is just where they are in their moral development at that age. But I think that typical parenting prolongs it and encourages it, especially in kids more prone to it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Remorse: I've recently switched to trying to get my ds to take responsibility for his actions instead of showing remorse. I realized that by trying to get the feeling of remorse I was actually trying to make him feel shame (which I don't think should be required of anyone). So now when he does wrong we as him to simply say "I was wrong. I did xxxxxx."

 

Daddy time: We do two things. At supper, each child will put one thing they want to show Daddy next to his plate. It might be a drawing or a school paper that they did particularly well at. For one child it is a promise of showing him her new gymnastics move right after supper. Dh's only responsibility at first was to praise them.

 

After supper we take a family walk. During spring and summer we walk at the track at the local high school. During fall and winter we walk at the mall. I get the first lap (or sometimes two) with Daddy so that we can have some grown-up talk. The children are required to walk/run ahead of us. At the track they can play in the middle of the track or to the side where we can see them as we walk. After Mommy's laps, each child gets 1 lap with Dad to talk to him. With my kids this is generally them chatting away while dh says "mm-hmm" at regular intervals! It has done wonders for their relationship with their Dad.

[SquirrellyMama]

OP, do you have dinner as soon as Dad comes home?

 

We do or at least it is going and very close to done and that is the way my dh wants it. He is very grouchy when he gets home and food helps :001_smile:

 

Kelly

[melissel]

Remorse: I've recently switched to trying to get my ds to take responsibility for his actions instead of showing remorse. I realized that by trying to get the feeling of remorse I was actually trying to make him feel shame (which I don't think should be required of anyone).

 

Thanks for that, Jean. I was thinking along those lines too, but just could not figure out how to articulate it. My DD6 is particularly sensitive to the feeling of shaming, and I so want to avoid it. I can see in her face what it does to her--she wants so badly to please me :(

[SquirrellyMama]

I used the word punishment because that was the best word I could come up with. Yes, we do punish our children but there are times when punishment isn't used. We might talk with them and he is still mad at us for what he did. He will not accept responsibilty for his actions. How can I help him grow. I know they aren't born with it but I need to help him grow. I will not just leave him be because there are adults that still haven't learned this skill. He's at least not blaming stuff on his toys anymore so I guess he is getting better. I should give him some credit. Right now he says, " I did this because Bekah made me really mad". Well, Bekah may not have even been in the room.

 

On the other topic of conversation I'll have try some of the suggestions and talk with my dh about what he wants to do. I really feel like his relationship is hurting with the kids. He gets home, we eat and then he withdraws from them. I know he needs downtime but it doesn't need to be all night.

 

I do appreciate all the suggestions. I'll definitly try the high/low game. My dh is really not into these things. Does anyone else have a husband like this? When we drove to MN over Thanksgiving I had a bunch of car games to play with the kids and him. He was the worst of the bunch. The kids loved the games and all he did was mock them. Very frustrating.

 

He's a good guy and works hard but he isn't much for relationships. Argh! I know I need to accept him but how do we work around it? How can he have good relationships with his kids?

 

Kelly

[melissel]

I used the word punishment because that was the best word I could come up with. Yes, we do punish our children but there are times when punishment isn't used. We might talk with them and he is still mad at us for what he did. He will not accept responsibilty for his actions. How can I help him grow. I know they aren't born with it but I need to help him grow. I will not just leave him be because there are adults that still haven't learned this skill. He's at least not blaming stuff on his toys anymore so I guess he is getting better. I should give him some credit. Right now he says, " I did this because Bekah made me really mad". Well, Bekah may not have even been in the room.

 

I think you're on the right track. I definitely don't think you should ignore it--of course it has to be addressed. I just don't think addressing it when he's still mad will make the impact you want. And I also think he's just little, and 5-year-olds are not famous for their rationality :lol: Give him time and keep working on it gently. He'll get it.

 

Oh, forgot to add: Have you spoken to your DH about how you're feeling? It sounds like he needs a reality check too. They're his darling children. I'd expect him to be happy to come home and see them, not treat them like an annoyance (though I get that after a long day of work, he may just want to be left alone--sometimes I feel that way too!). I think the discussion would need to begin with him, gently but frankly.

 

:grouphug: on both counts. It will work outself out.

Edited December 22, 2008 by melissel

[SquirrellyMama]

Thanks for that, Jean. I was thinking along those lines too, but just could not figure out how to articulate it. My DD6 is particularly sensitive to the feeling of shaming,

 

 

In my opinion we have lost the ability to feel shame and I think that isn't a good thing. I think we all need a healthy dose of shame in this world. We don't care what we do anymore because there is no shame. I believe we shouldn't hold on to shame. We do something wrong, feel shame, repent and seek forgiveness and let go of our shame.

 

I really don't go around telling my kids they are shameful creatures or anything. I'm not a meany. Most of my friends think I am way to easy on my kids.

 

Kelly

[FO4UR]

RE remorse: Before a punishment for a wrong that hurt somebody, I take ds (also 5yo) by the hand and show him the consequence of his actions. If he were to push his sister, and sister gets a bruise, ds5 SEES IT, and then he SERVES HER by helping get ice, getting her a favorite toy, etc.... Then after he apologizes, we talk about punishment. (...not that THAT EVER happens at MY house....;):tongue_smilie:) A bonus to this is that by the time ds has done these things my anger has cooled a bit and so the punishment is generally calm and appropriate, thus not encouraging ds to simply be angry at ME for punishing him - he better understand.

 

Also - when accidents happen - like bumping heads - (just happened today LOL), I make sure each child asks the other if they are OK rather than demanding an apology from the other. I hope this just trains them to think of others first.

[melissel]

In my opinion we have lost the ability to feel shame and I think that isn't a good thing. I think we all need a healthy dose of shame in this world. We don't care what we do anymore because there is no shame. I believe we shouldn't hold on to shame. We do something wrong, feel shame, repent and seek forgiveness and let go of our shame.

 

I really don't go around telling my kids they are shameful creatures or anything. I'm not a meany. Most of my friends think I am way to easy on my kids.

 

Kelly

 

Kelly, no one said you're telling your kids they're shameful, but shame can be generated from within too. You asked for advice, we're offering different perspectives. In trying to offer advice, I'm trying to see the situation from your 5-year-old's side as well. If you don't care for the opinion, that's OK, but if you said what you're doing isn't working, maybe a new tactic or perspective might be in order. That's all. If you only wanted responses that supported your current way of handling the issue, you should have said so.

 

And ETA, I don't think shame and remorse are the same thing. I don't think five-year-olds need to feel shame--middle-aged banking execs using public funds to take executive jets to meetings, yes--but five-year-olds, no. I agree that we need to teach our children to take responsibility for their actions and care for others, but I don't think shame needs to be a part of the picture. I can teach my DD6 about how to control her emotions and why she needs be considerate of her sister and sorry that she broke her favorite baby snow leopard without making her feel shameful about it.

Edited December 22, 2008 by melissel

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I'll definitly try the high/low game. My dh is really not into these things. Does anyone else have a husband like this? When we drove to MN over Thanksgiving I had a bunch of car games to play with the kids and him. He was the worst of the bunch. The kids loved the games and all he did was mock them. Very frustrating.

 

Try making it *not* a game, just regular conversation. :-) Just say, "So, child 1, what was the best thing that happened to you today?" Next lull in conversation say, "Child 2, what was your favorite thing that you did today?" etc. I'd even do this with the kids a few times when Dad is not around so that they are familiar with this type of questioning. HTH!

Edited December 22, 2008 by Oak Knoll Mom

[Oak Knoll Mom]

We do or at least it is going and very close to done and that is the way my dh wants it. He is very grouchy when he gets home and food helps :001_smile:

 

Kelly

 

My dh is the same way. He needs food as soon as he gets home. However because of our schedule I'm usually just starting supper when he gets home. I give him a quick hug and a high protein snack and send him off to decompress. By the time supper is ready he is much more happy to be surrounded by chattering and excited little boys. :-)

[Rosy]

I had the same complaint about my son at that age. Usually he would show remorse after the heat of the moment had passed. You just have to keep upholding your house rules, and making sure he knows what he did wrong and why it was wrong, as well as letting him know when he does something right. My son is almost 7 now, and while he doesn't have the sensitive conscience I'd like him to, he does accept discipline much better than he used to.

 

About your husband...you just have to let him develop his own relationship with the kids. Let him talk as much as possible during dinner and train your kids not to interrupt. When he knows that you're accepting him as he is and not trying to make him be a "certain kind of dad" or interact with the kids in a certain way, he'll open up more. He loves his kids, he just might not know how to connect with them. What does he like to do with the kids? Encourage that more than the conversations you're hoping for, and the conversations will come in time. If there isn't really anything he likes to do with the kids, maybe try to set up some one-on-one time for them to do something with him that he likes to do? Going fishing together, working on a project together, etc. It's ok that he doesn't want to play car games.

[SquirrellyMama]

Kelly, no one said you're telling your kids they're shameful, but shame can be generated from within too. You asked for advice, we're offering different perspectives

 

 

I didn't say that because I thought people were saying anything wrong. After I wrote that about needing some shame in life I didn't want anyone thinking I was walking around telling my kids they were shameful all day. It had nothing to do with other people's advice. I've enjoyed reading it.

 

It takes me a while to digest things that are suggested to me. I question it not because I don't like it but because I need to understand it. I'm the type of person who talks to myself just to hear it out loud. It helps me understand what I'm thinking. It drives my kids nuts because they think I'm talking to them. :001_smile:

 

Kelly