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Alg 1, Geometry, Alg 2 recs

Servant4Christ
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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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I'm posting because I'm a planning type of person and I'd like to preview and start buying for highschool. I've read many past threads, but can't find much that's recent. 

Which do you prefer and what editions? There are soooo many editions that my head is spinning!

I'm looking/sifting/wading though Dolciani Pre Algebra, Algebra 1, and Algebra 2 (sooo many editions) and Jurgensen Geometry. I like what I'm seeing but WOWZA there are so many editions and these seem to be at a premium price so I'd want to buy the correct edition the first time.

Jacob's Elementary Algebra and Jacob's Geometry followed by Foerster Alg 2 or Masterbooks Principles of Alg 2, but I cannot find any helpful info on that and whether it's any good. Honestly, my only hesitation with Jacob's is that it's put out by Masterbooks now and anything I've ever looked at from them is just not enough. I'm also very irked at the fact Masterbooks has switched to softcover texts and that just won't survive my 3 boys.

Foerster is my inclination for all algebra, but I could be wrong. There just aren't many samples that I can find to get a better feel for any of these options except Jacob's. 

I am open to other options, but only after I've explored all of these first because I'm on information overload. 

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silver

silver

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I can't help with which edition to use, but I can help with the lack of samples. To look at book options, I've checked out textbooks through inter-library loan (which often includes college and university libraries that are more likely to have textbooks), bought super cheap and poor condition used books, or found them in online libraries where you can check them out for an hour to browse through them.

Foerster Algebra 1: https://archive.org/details/algebraiexpressi00foer

Foerster Algebra 2: https://archive.org/details/algebratrigonome00paul_0

I've done two kids from pre-algebra through algebra 2. One, the one that likes math and is good at it, did AoPS. The other, who is good at math, but doesn't enjoy it, and gets frustrated easily, has done Jacobs for Algebra 1 and Geometry, Larson for Algebra 2, and is now using Sullivan for precalculus. I looked at Foerster for Algebra 2 for her, and decided that the explanations were wordier than she needed. It's a good strong text, but it just wasn't the right fit for her.

I've got a third coming up to high school math in a year or so. She's not bad at math, but it's not as intuitive to her as it is to her siblings. She also doesn't have the aversion to it that her older sister has. I'll likely have her use the Jacobs books as well. Once she's in geometry, I'll reassess for Algebra 2 and precalculus. 

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cintinative

cintinative

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12 minutes ago, Servant4Christ said:

I fortunately, I can only see the TOC in the two above links, no actual content to see what a lesson looks like.

You need to create a free account with archive.org and then you can "check out" the text for an hour and look at all the pages.

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EKS

EKS

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2 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

Honestly, my only hesitation with Jacob's is that it's put out by Masterbooks now and anything I've ever looked at from them is just not enough.

It is the original Jacobs material, just a different publisher.  Jacobs is beyond excellent.

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Zoo Keeper

Zoo Keeper

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 Jacobs Algebra (first edition, 1979 copyright, not the MB edition) is also on archive... https://archive.org/details/elementaryalgebr00jaco/mode/2up

and the TE for this edition... https://archive.org/details/teachersguidetoe0000jaco

If you are going to be the one teaching the upper level math, look over books in advance and see what *you can understand and teach.*

Foerster's has clear teaching for Algebra 1.  Very logical. Two of mine did very well with it.

Jacobs is ... different... in presentation. A little more of discovery method woven into the problems sets to teach the students as they worth through the problems.  I like it very much.  But one of mine did NOT.  He was better served with a more traditional text.

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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7 minutes ago, Zoo Keeper said:

 Jacobs Algebra (first edition, 1979 copyright, not the MB edition) is also on archive... https://archive.org/details/elementaryalgebr00jaco/mode/2up

and the TE for this edition... https://archive.org/details/teachersguidetoe0000jaco

If you are going to be the one teaching the upper level math, look over books in advance and see what *you can understand and teach.*

Foerster's has clear teaching for Algebra 1.  Very logical. Two of mine did very well with it.

Jacobs is ... different... in presentation. A little more of discovery method woven into the problems sets to teach the students as they worth through the problems.  I like it very much.  But one of mine did NOT.  He was better served with a more traditional text.

Thank you. My oldest learns differently than I do. What seems simple to me will trip him up entirely, yet things that I assume may take us a while for him to get are a breeze for him. It's truly amazing to watch and experience. The reason I'm looking now is that I want to find the right fit and also refresh my own memory since it's been a very long time since I was in school.

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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21 minutes ago, cintinative said:

So weird. When I log on, I can check out both texts she linked.

I just went back on and was able to check out both plus the Foerster Alg 1, but not the Alg 2 so I'm assuming that'll be available later. This is awesome! I really like the looks of Foersters. It makes the most sense to me.

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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Does the edition matter? I notice the 2000 edition replaced the computer exercises with calculator exercises. I do like the bios better in the 88 (I think) edition. It's interesting that so many female's contributions are mentioned in this series. I've managed to download a pdf copy of the 2000 edition of Alg 1, Alg 2, and Jurgensen's Geometry to look through before mapping out my hunting strategy. 😂

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Zoo Keeper

Zoo Keeper

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Does Dolciani edition matter!  People around here used to get very heated up about that question... not so much any more. 😉 People who are more into pure mathematics for the love of mathematics preferred the 60's and 70's versions.  The rest of us seemed to be fine with the 80's-2000's versions.  PIck whatever version makes *your* heart beat faster and go with it. 😁

I do like Dolciani. I have the Pre-A, (late 80's version), Algebra 1 & Algebra 2 (late 80's versions again).  I chose those versions because I could find the student text, TE's and solutions manual without having to take out a second mortgage on the house. That was around six or eight years ago, and prices have gone up, up, up on the used market--solutions are in the hundreds of dollars now! Where's that fainting emoji when you need it? 

Foerster's and Jacobs (including the teacher's materials) are much less expensive to find used.  I frequently see Jacobs sets on places like Ebay.  I personally *love* Jacobs' teaching style, but alas, my children do not. They prefer something that they perceive as more straightforward, 

Foerster's TE/solutions are out of print and not so cheap to find used, but you can get the solutions for Foerster's algebra 1 & 2 as pdf's from Math w/o Borders. https://mathwithoutborders.com/shop/algebra-1-ancillary-materials/ 

Personally, since I have used all three with different students, I think that either Jacobs or Foerster or Dolciani for Alg 1 will get you to about the same place by the end of the book.  They're each good for slightly different reasons.  Pick whatever one you like and your wallet likes and all will be well. 😉

And in case you really needed it, here is a page with reviews for Dolciani & Foerster from the folks at mathematically correct... http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/algebra.htm

 

 

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cintinative

cintinative

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I'm pretty sure my Dolciani's are late 1980s. I couldn't come by the earlier versions without a lot of expense.

Is the solution manual for the late 80s on archive.org? You might be able to swing that for awhile while you keep a watch via booksprice or something like that for a cheaper version. ETA: i guess it's not. =(

 

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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2 minutes ago, cintinative said:

I'm pretty sure my Dolciani's are late 1980s. I couldn't come by the earlier versions without a lot of expense.

Is the solution manual for the late 80s on archive.org? You might be able to swing that for awhile while you keep a watch via booksprice or something like that for a cheaper version.

 

I didn't see the solution manual for the late 80s edition on archive.org. I still have a while before I'll need anything, but I'm not buying any Dolciani until I get my hands on the solution manual first.

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cintinative

cintinative

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1 hour ago, Servant4Christ said:

I didn't see the solution manual for the late 80s edition on archive.org. I still have a while before I'll need anything, but I'm not buying any Dolciani until I get my hands on the solution manual first.

I updated my post after you saw it I think. I didn't see it either =(  It would probably be the most checked out book in archive history.  😃  

I wish I knew a workaround. They really are good math texts. I am not sure I will ever sell mine (but watch me regret this later!). 

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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Jacobs geometry question:

Is there a difference (other than the cover) between the version with a chess game type cover and mfw version with protractor and compass on the cover? (I prefer hardback textbooks so mb is not what I want.) Both the chess one and mfw seem to have a solution key and improved test bank. 🤷‍♀️

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Zoo Keeper

Zoo Keeper

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As far as I can tell (without actually having the books!), the content of all the 3rd editions is the same, the cover was different based on who was publishing that 3rd edition (Freeman----MFW----Master Books). 

Jann in Tx has some good analysis of Jacobs' geometry editions- here's a search that you can read threads on ... https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/search/?&q=Jacobs&author=Jann in TX&search_and_or=or

I have Jacobs Geometry, 2nd edition (hardback, 70's-80's copyrights)  I love that book.  Really.  I like geometry, I like proofs.  I worked through a bit chunk of the book on my own.  I really love that book.  💙

BUT

no one in my house has gone all the way through the book with me.  Four out of my six have done... MUS for geometry.  Because I didn't have the time to teach it (Jacobs Geo) like I wanted to, my students needed more time for other subjects (most of mine needed more time to marinade in Alg 1 & 2), and geometry is not really that well represented on the SAT's or other standardized tests. I had to get pragmatic.  So we went with an easy to teach, easy to get done, bare minimum geometry course that checks the boxes. 

I am keeping my Jacobs, hoping that my younger two may get to use it.  Hope springs eternal.

 

And, yes, I have too many math books.  🙂

 

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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4 hours ago, Zoo Keeper said:

As far as I can tell (without actually having the books!), the content of all the 3rd editions is the same, the cover was different based on who was publishing that 3rd edition (Freeman----MFW----Master Books). 

Jann in Tx has some good analysis of Jacobs' geometry editions- here's a search that you can read threads on ... https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/search/?&q=Jacobs&author=Jann in TX&search_and_or=or

I have Jacobs Geometry, 2nd edition (hardback, 70's-80's copyrights)  I love that book.  Really.  I like geometry, I like proofs.  I worked through a bit chunk of the book on my own.  I really love that book.  💙

BUT

no one in my house has gone all the way through the book with me.  Four out of my six have done... MUS for geometry.  Because I didn't have the time to teach it (Jacobs Geo) like I wanted to, my students needed more time for other subjects (most of mine needed more time to marinade in Alg 1 & 2), and geometry is not really that well represented on the SAT's or other standardized tests. I had to get pragmatic.  So we went with an easy to teach, easy to get done, bare minimum geometry course that checks the boxes. 

I am keeping my Jacobs, hoping that my younger two may get to use it.  Hope springs eternal.

 

And, yes, I have too many math books.  🙂

 

Thank you for that thread! I'm thinking Jacobs isn't what I'm looking for, after all. I doubt that discovery method is gonna be the winning ticket with this kid.

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Lucy the Valiant

Lucy the Valiant

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(This may or may not be helpful: The books commonly referred to here as "Dolciani" are referred to as "Houghton" in the vernacular by my local home school mom friends. When I was asking around, this was useful info that I didn't have initially. I am gearing up for my 4th trip through the Algebra: Structure & Method sequence. 🙂 ) 

We use . . . 

Dolciani / Brown / Houghton Pre-Algebra

Dolciani / Brown / Houghton Algebra 1: Structure and Method

Heath Geometry (which is algebra-integrated and works as a fantastic review as well as linking the alg & geometry in student's mind)

Dolciani / Brown / Houghton Algebra 2: Structure and Method

And then they each seem to take a different path after that through pre-calc, calc, stats, etc.

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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Dolciani & Jurgensen are definitely what I'm on the hunt for. I actually prefer the layout of the editions that say new edition on the front cover, but finding solution keys for them is impossible. I may very well have to go with the 2000s because I found 2 of the 3 solution keys at Internet archive. I'm wondering, though, if I buy the teacher editions of my preferred editions, are all the answers included, just without answers? If so, I'll start looking in that direction.

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cintinative

cintinative

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17 minutes ago, Servant4Christ said:

Dolciani & Jurgensen are definitely what I'm on the hunt for. I actually prefer the layout of the editions that say new edition on the front cover, but finding solution keys for them is impossible. I may very well have to go with the 2000s because I found 2 of the 3 solution keys at Internet archive. I'm wondering, though, if I buy the teacher editions of my preferred editions, are all the answers included, just without answers? If so, I'll start looking in that direction.

I own the 1980s/90s versions for both Dolciani and Jurgensen. The answers for all the problems are in the teacher's edition, but not the worked out solutions.  So if all you need is the answers, the teacher's edition will get you what you need. I also have used the pacing guide in the front of the teacher's editions and I have used the tests from those. 

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cintinative

cintinative

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2 hours ago, Servant4Christ said:

Dolciani users: Does the copyright year matter for a solution key as long as the cover pic matches the textbook? I really don't want to buy the wrong solution key considering how expensive they are. For instance, there are at least 2 different isbn numbers for the Alg 2 solution key.

I know there is some flow with this--there was a thread with ISBNs in it. Let me see if I can google it.

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cintinative

cintinative

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In a prior thread someone said they found Dolciani's text on Open Library. FYI  https://openlibrary.org/search?q=dolciani+algebra&has_fulltext=true

 

It looks like the solutions might be here?  https://openlibrary.org/search?q=dolciani+solution&mode=everything 

Here's one for Alg I solution manual: https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9279825W/Algebra?edition=key%3A/books/OL9830962M

 

Copying prior post here:

Ok, here are the steps to read these math books online:

1. First register with Open Library to checkout books.

2. Next go to the book. For example here is the Dolciani book I purchased after reviewing its full content online:

http://openlibrary.o...9707M/Algebra_1

3. On the right hand side click on eBook under Borrow.

4. On the Borrow screen select Read in Browser, then Read Online which has a nice reader builtin.

5. Review the full book contents

6. Please Return Book when done reviewing so others can borrow it as well. Click the 'Return Book' button in the upper left hand corner.

 

Note: Not all books have been scanned yet, but quite a few Dolciani Algebra books have.

 

Lastly, when you do a search such as Dolciani Algebra you will see which books you can borrrow. They are the ones with a little 'Borrow' icon to the right of their description. Some may currently be 'Checked Out' which also shows up in the same location next to their name.

 

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cintinative

cintinative

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I can't find the thread, but I would be happy to give you my ISBNs if that helps. 

Student: Algebra Structure and Method Book 1 copyright 1988, 1986 0-395-43052-6

Teacher: Algebra Structure and Method Book 1 Teacher's Edition  Copyright 1986  0-395-35250-9

Solution Key, Algebra Structure and Method  Book 1  1988 impression, copyright 1986  0-395-44361-x

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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13 minutes ago, cintinative said:

In a prior thread someone said they found Dolciani's text on Open Library. FYI  https://openlibrary.org/search?q=dolciani+algebra&has_fulltext=true

 

It looks like the solutions might be here?  https://openlibrary.org/search?q=dolciani+solution&mode=everything 

Here's one for Alg I solution manual: https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9279825W/Algebra?edition=key%3A/books/OL9830962M

 

Copying prior post here:

Ok, here are the steps to read these math books online:

1. First register with Open Library to checkout books.

2. Next go to the book. For example here is the Dolciani book I purchased after reviewing its full content online:

http://openlibrary.o...9707M/Algebra_1

3. On the right hand side click on eBook under Borrow.

4. On the Borrow screen select Read in Browser, then Read Online which has a nice reader builtin.

5. Review the full book contents

6. Please Return Book when done reviewing so others can borrow it as well. Click the 'Return Book' button in the upper left hand corner.

 

Note: Not all books have been scanned yet, but quite a few Dolciani Algebra books have.

 

Lastly, when you do a search such as Dolciani Algebra you will see which books you can borrrow. They are the ones with a little 'Borrow' icon to the right of their description. Some may currently be 'Checked Out' which also shows up in the same location next to their name.

 

Yes, I have downloaded the 2000 edition of Dolciani Algebra 1 & 2 as well as Jurgensen Geometry from Library Genesis. Internet Archive has solution keys to the Algebra 1 and Geometry, but not Algebra 2. The correct isbn would be very helpful.

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cintinative

cintinative

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Algebra and Trigonometry Structure and Method Book 2  Solution Key  copyright 1986  ISBN 0-395-35259-2

Algebra and Trigonometry Structure and Method Book 2 Teacher's Edition copyright 1986 ISBN 0-395-35258-4

Algebra and Trigonometry Structure and Method Book 2 (student) copyright 1988, 1986 ISBN 0-395-43054-2

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Servant4Christ

Servant4Christ

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11 hours ago, Zoo Keeper said:

These are the 13/10 ISBN numbers for my 1986/88 Dolciani Alg 2 with trig -- this one

978-0395352595  or 0395352592

I did NOT pay $650 for mine... 😲 Not even $65. 

Ebay had some Dolciani last time I looked...

Yes, I saw that price on Amazon recently and nearly fell over. That same solution key and matching student textbook are on eBay for $400. That's just out of my price range, so I've been researching the individual books and solution keys for weeks.

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