Language Arts Curriculum? CM Grammar?

[Homeschoolz]

Hi, 

I'm looking for reccomdations for language arts curriculum, can't decide whether to start now or in September but I definately feel I should be doing more. 

My kindergartener is at the beginning of the first mcguffey and my first grader nearly on the second. Up until now I have just used them as a base for phonics, sight words, copywork and comprehension. I want to continue with using the Mcguffeys, so nothing that includes phonics (I feel they are pretty much past that stage anyway) and ideally doesn't have irs own readers. I feel a little overwhelmed by all the different curriculums. I have considered FLL but seen mixed reviews? I was also looking at Queens Homeschool, but very unsure which level to start with.  Definately drawn to Classical and Charlotte Mason influences, I would appreciate any suggestions! Also welcome any ramblings about their thoughts about classical vs charlotte mason (delayed) approach to grammar. 

[Homeschoolz]

I forgot to say, ideally I want something I can combine them with as they are only a grade apart and very similiar ability wise. 

[HomeAgain]

You might look at English Lessons Through Literature by Barefoot Meandering.  There is a companion, Reading & Spelling Through Literature, but it's not necessary to use them together.  ELTL uses 4-6 full length books a year and short story volumes to teach grammar and writing in a CM style.  There are optional workbooks, and you can definitely combine grade levels without issue.

It's an easily modified program if you need it to be.  When we started, my ds wasn't writing well, so I shortened the copywork to a half passage and picked just one selection per day rather than the two offered.  Each year only has 108 lessons, anyway, so you have the option to spread out work or pick and choose or just do 3x a week.

[Clarita]

I'm really enjoying Bravewriter Quill for my Kindergartner but he's a reluctant writer. Technically it doesn't include full grammar, but it does include some grammar discussion.

[Clarita]

Bravewriter has levels all the way up to high school. The level up from Quill includes copywork.

[Stoppingby]

You could take a look at https://www.eclecticfoundations.com/

It is a curriculum that uses McGuffey readers to teach language arts. They offer a huge free sample of their curriculum to see if it is the right fit for you. And they have quite a few levels.... I would line up the curriculum with their current reader.

It might be something to check out!

[Homeschoolz]

Eclectic foundations looks interesting, but we are using the older brown mcguffeys as we were gifted them. I wouldnt mind switching to revised but it looks like there is some phonics and I feel like mine are at the point where they can pick up nearly anything and read it. I'm really just using them at their pace until we get to the end to make sure their reading is progressing, to check for any issues with certain words or pronohnciation, talking about puntuation, capitals and understanding what they're reading. I really think something that excludes reading is a better fit for us! 

Been looking up ELTL and Brave Writer too. 😊 ELTL looks lovely, possibly quite similiar to Blossom and Root? Which I think I prefer. I did look at their Grade 2 to combine for both for a gentle intro to grammar, extra copywork and some literature based activties. Has anyone used all 4 levels of FLL and felt it was a good experience? 

[Homeschoolz]

Or possibly I just prefer Blossom and Root over ELTL because I can't find out much about it? Reviews etc.

[Green Bean]

I can speak to FLL! Yes, worth it! My 5 older kids can recite those rules like champs. Tedious? Yes, but worth the effort. FLL 1 is simple and would be easy to combine as it’s all oral. WWE 1 pairs nicely.
 

ELTL is different. We gave that a shot at one point. My kids found it difficult to see what the lesson was. I felt a bit lost knowing what I was teaching. We could not make sense of it. But I have kids who like things very laid out and clear. Bunch of future accountants and engineers here!
 

I considered B&R for my youngest (6). It looks lovely.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Green Bean

[Homeschoolz]

Thank you, it's great to hear it works. Do you think it is enough without WWE? I ideally wanted to just pull out the mcguffeys and 1 other thing rather than working in lots of different books each day for Language Arts.

B&R does look lovely, I'm just not sure if it is enough for grammar or if we have time, a bit put off by the word lists but will be easy enough to just not print those pages! 

 

I am really torn about whether or not to delay grammar. Does anyone have any thoughts on it? I really like the look of Queens Language Lessons for the Very Young. It is a really different approach, and I'm a bit nervous of taking the leap with a Charlotte Mason language lesson approach. 

[Green Bean]

Oh yeah- totally skip WWE for now or forever, as you wish. The two are not dependent on each other.

As far as delaying, sure! Up to you. I would encourage you not to wait past 3rd, though.

Pick what looks good to you and give it a whirl for a bit. See how it fits for you.

[cintinative]

We used First Language Lessons through Level 4. I recommend it for grammar. Very easy to use and solid teaching.

A totally different approach you could look at is using Fix-It starting in about grade 2/3.  It doesn't involve any diagramming.

As far as age, if you intend to introduce foreign language, it is important that students know the parts of the sentence and verb tenses, etc. So the Latin for Teachers course I watched said that they don't start Latin until 3rd grade because that is when English grammar instruction starts.  Also, they said that weak English grammar makes learning foreign language harder. 

[Homeschoolz]

3 hours ago, cintinative said:

We used First Language Lessons through Level 4. I recommend it for grammar. Very easy to use and solid teaching.

A totally different approach you could look at is using Fix-It starting in about grade 2/3.  It doesn't involve any diagramming.

As far as age, if you intend to introduce foreign language, it is important that students know the parts of the sentence and verb tenses, etc. So the Latin for Teachers course I watched said that they don't start Latin until 3rd grade because that is when English grammar instruction starts.  Also, they said that weak English grammar makes learning foreign language harder. 

Thank you, this is really helpful, I hadnt considered how this decision will relate to foreign languages. We are currently doing Spanish. Using complete starter spanish for prek-grade 1, which has no grammar in. I'm not sure if the next book does. I plan to add in the Spanish-English My First Readers for them to start reading in Spanish 8n September which will slow the pace of needing to learn Spanish grammar/ geting through the workbooks, I can see my eldest getting to at least 3rd grade before we need too. I do want to do Latin but I hadn't really decided when, possibly when my eldest is 4th grade aged. So a Charlotte Mason approach could possibly work and change them to something like fix it at 3rd and 2nd. I have just seen Momdelights gentle grammar which I really like the look of too, another CM one which delays learning the terminology. 

I really love how gentle it has felt learning to read with the Mcguffeys, I think I'm worried FLL won't be quite as gentle? It is clearly tried and tested, it works. I currently have FLL 1 and 2 x Gentle Grammar books in my basket....Trying to decide which to remove. 

[Homeschoolz]

I am having a problem with wanting to do all the curriulums. 😳🤣 

[Green Bean]

1 hour ago, Homeschoolz said:

I am having a problem with wanting to do all the curriulums. 😳🤣 

YES! Exactly this! I’m frozen for my youngest.

[Clarita]

1 hour ago, Homeschoolz said:

I am having a problem with wanting to do all the curriulums. 😳🤣 

I wasn't even thinking about doing grammar and now I have Beowulf Grammar in my basket...

[cintinative]

2 hours ago, Homeschoolz said:

 

I really love how gentle it has felt learning to read with the Mcguffeys, I think I'm worried FLL won't be quite as gentle? It is clearly tried and tested, it works. I currently have FLL 1 and 2 x Gentle Grammar books in my basket....Trying to decide which to remove. 

FLL does not teach how to read. It only teaches grammar and a little bit of narration.

[8filltheheart]

It is very simple to teach lower level grammar without using any grammar text at all.  If you write simple sentences, you can start discussing grammar just from that.  For example, it is very easy to teach nouns to start of with as anything they can touch.  Ask them to give you a noun.  Say they responded, dog.  You can write, The dog barked.  What is the noun in the sentence?  Dog.  What did the dog do? It barked.  Barked is an action verb.  Then you can have them act out all sorts of action verbs.  (hop, smile, wave, write, sing, dance, sit, stand, etc.)  Then you can create all sorts of simple noun/action verb sentences.  (I do this with my kids from about 1st grade on.  I gradually add in adjs, advs, and direct objects.)  By the time we actually "study" grammar, they have mastered all the basics and can easily start with identifying prep phrases, verbals, etc.

[countrymum]

I like the looks of Cottage Press primers.....they are prep for heavier grammar later;)

[cintinative]

As far as Latin, I would think about if you want to do it high school level or not. We started young (2nd-3rd) and my oldest did it through 8th grade, and by that time, he was so burned out he did not want to continue. He made it through Latin 2 (high school).  My youngest stopped at Latin 1.  

They both say that they wish we had done Spanish for longer instead. It's hard saying if that would have been better, but Spanish is a lot more "practical" so I guess if we had started young then they could be more fluent now? It's too late to fix it. LOL.  

Just know we are not the only family that has regrets for many years spent in Latin. I don't regret studying it--only the length of time. 

[8filltheheart]

7 minutes ago, cintinative said:

As far as Latin, I would think about if you want to do it high school level or not. We started young (2nd-3rd) and my oldest did it through 8th grade, and by that time, he was so burned out he did not want to continue. He made it through Latin 2 (high school).  My youngest stopped at Latin 1.  

They both say that they wish we had done Spanish for longer instead. It's hard saying if that would have been better, but Spanish is a lot more "practical" so I guess if we had started young then they could be more fluent now? It's too late to fix it. LOL.  

Just know we are not the only family that has regrets for many years spent in Latin. I don't regret studying it--only the length of time. 

Agree.  My personal opinion is that starting Latin young makes it drag out way too long and makes it boring and kids do burn out from it.  You can postpone learning Latin after they are old enough to master complex grammar concepts quickly and progress through Latin 1 in 1-2 yrs vs over many, many yrs.  My kids who started Latin in 6th or 7th grade continued Latin through 4-5 yrs.  My kids who started younger phased out long before high school equivalency.  (The one who started in 6th, the youngest I would do, was advanced and loved all things language.  She ended up taking 3 foreign languages in high school.) 

[Clarita]

59 minutes ago, 8filltheheart said:

It is very simple to teach lower level grammar without using any grammar text at all.  If you write simple sentences, you can start discussing grammar just from that.  For example, it is very easy to teach nouns to start of with as anything they can touch.  Ask them to give you a noun.  Say they responded, dog.  You can write, The dog barked.  What is the noun in the sentence?  Dog.  What did the dog do? It barked.  Barked is an action verb.  Then you can have them act out all sorts of action verbs.  (hop, smile, wave, write, sing, dance, sit, stand, etc.)  Then you can create all sorts of simple noun/action verb sentences.  (I do this with my kids from about 1st grade on.  I gradually add in adjs, advs, and direct objects.)  By the time we actually "study" grammar, they have mastered all the basics and can easily start with identifying prep phrases, verbals, etc.

That's what I want to do but I need a little bit more hand holding (I just can't wing it), because I don't know all the basics. 

[homemommy83]

With you staying you want to continue using McGuffys heavily I would suggest using Gentle Grammar and her lesson sheets by Sherry Hayes.  It uses the McGuffy readers as the base of the lessons.

 

For next fall I would heavily encourage you using the combined volume of First Language Lessons.  It is so sweet, great done in a pair, and the will memorize poems and rules while having little writing required by adding it to the lesson sheets with McGuffys.

 

Hope you find something you enjoy, sounds like you are already doing great.  Tutoring personalizes the education and the above tools are excellent for that as well.

 

Blessings,

Brenda

[macmacmoo]

We used English lessons through literature for many years but it lacked the writing support I needed to teach my kid so after loads for jumping around we are loving exploring the world through stories https://quidnampress.com/curriculum/exploring-the-world-through-story/ I don’t do grammar now till age ten now (fix it grammer) I still use our English lessons through literature books to read the poems and do the picture studies. 

[Homeschoolz]

17 hours ago, homemommy83 said:

With you staying you want to continue using McGuffys heavily I would suggest using Gentle Grammar and her lesson sheets by Sherry Hayes.  It uses the McGuffy readers as the base of the lessons.

 

For next fall I would heavily encourage you using the combined volume of First Language Lessons.  It is so sweet, great done in a pair, and the will memorize poems and rules while having little writing required by adding it to the lesson sheets with McGuffys.

 

Hope you find something you enjoy, sounds like you are already doing great.  Tutoring personalizes the education and the above tools are excellent for that as well.

 

Blessings,

Brenda

What is the difference between the combined volumes and newer individual ones ? After the combined one would there be something better to use than the FLL 3 or is there an older version that would be better? 

I don't feel the need to get the lesson books, they look quite similiar to what I am already doing and I feel like everything is going well with the Mcguffeys. Gentle Grammar I think is the way to go for now. Thank you!

[Homeschoolz]

18 hours ago, countrymum said:

I like the looks of Cottage Press primers.....they are prep for heavier grammar later;)

I hadn't seen those, they are lovely!!! Very tempting to start that with both in September. More options - just what I needed. 😅

[Homeschoolz]

Thank you

17 hours ago, Clarita said:

That's what I want to do but I need a little bit more hand holding (I just can't wing it), because I don't know all the basics. 

Yes I feel I need a little more hand holding, just looked at Beowulf and I feel doesn't quite match the style of mcguffeys. Looks good though! 

[Homeschoolz]

Thank you for the thoughts RE Latin, that makes a lot of sense. We will wait until they are in 6th and 7th I think! 

[Homeschoolz]

Does anyone have any thoughts between Cottage Press and Gentle Grammar? Trying to pick which Charlotte Mason grammar book would be best. I think I am leaning towards a CM approach and delay teaching grammar terms. It seems it would be better to wait to do Latin anyway, and I'm sure I can work without doing formal Spanish grammar for awhile. Although FLL is still a contender.

Thank you everyone for your help! I'm glad I'm not the only one who is keen on a few curriculums even if they are quite different to each other! 

[countrymum]

11 minutes ago, Homeschoolz said:

Does anyone have any thoughts between Cottage Press and Gentle Grammar? Trying to pick which Charlotte Mason grammar book would be best. I think I am leaning towards a CM approach and delay teaching grammar terms. It seems it would be better to wait to do Latin anyway, and I'm sure I can work without doing formal Spanish grammar for awhile. Although FLL is still a contender.

Thank you everyone for your help! I'm glad I'm not the only one who is keen on a few curriculums even if they are quite different to each other! 

I've looked a bit at gentle grammar and actually have the old original books by Long. I'll have to look at them again and I'll tell you all I can about them.....I'd forgotten about them. 

[homemommy83]

I mentioned the combined volume because it is my favorite😎.  The material is pretty much the same as the divided volume, but in a smaller formatted book, which I prefer.  I also like that you see the entire progression of the two levels and I also typically use it in one year vs. two.  

Brenda

[Nm.]

Eltl was nice but grammar didn’t stick.  Also the fables were too dark/violent for us.  I like FLL for 1st-2nd, more for fun/exposure.  It is very sweet.  I have combined book and love it.  The way it’s formatted I can teach the lesson quickly/ combine lessons.  3rd I start gentle formal with rod & staff 2.  I like queens too for 2nd if we finish FLL early.