Change now or finish the year

[Dianthus]

I realize winter doldrums, but I'm really hating getting back into MP.

I'd like to change my ds10's science for the 2nd semester. He loves building things and makes really fantastic linkages and gear assemblies with his legos. He's also interested in coding. I don't know if there's a 1 semester course that would cover this. He could also tag along with younger brother's mystery Science. He actually watching all the vids with him already.

I'm not sure whether I should abandon 13 Colonies and the Great Republic. My kids haven't had an American history course though have had a lot of supplements. It is dry, and the reading is awkward so I don't know they are getting a lot out of it. I do still like the idea of memorizing the 200 questions about American history. Not sure if we should continue and finish or abandon and go into SOTW 4.

I am thinking they can continue classical studies reading as they want but I won't force the workbooks.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I loved the idea of MP but my kids were completely bored with it. There are so many ways to make science, for example, lively and hands-on and MP just wasn't a good fit for us. For a 10 year old, definitely go with what he loves. Mystery Science would be totally appropriate. Except for our ill-fated MP foray, science has been very much interest-led for us with lots of documentaries, games and library books and my kids have done well with that approach. 

[barnwife]

Well, I might not be the type of person you want answering. I am a former private and public teacher who now HS her kids. And the longer I HS, the more I lean toward science and history before high school being for enjoyment. FWIW, our oldest is 11. We don't do formally planned/scheduled history or science at this point, but neither is it totally unschooling. I choose interesting books to read through for each as part of our morning time. There is no formal output. I read aloud. They listen. Sometimes questions/discussion happen. Sometimes not. 

I also make sure that our bookshelves have interesting nonfiction and not just fiction. 

At this point, our kids think history and science are interesting. Oldest definitely prefers nonfiction to fiction, and is an avid reader. I am starting to think about how to transition him to formal output for these things, but have no concrete plans yet.

So, I will firmly be in the "if you aren't enjoying history or science in the elementary/middle school years, change something" camp.  I'd rec our world history, except it's Catholic, so you probably aren't interested. The US history book we are using is The Complete Book of United States History. I saw someone here recommend it. Though I was skeptical, it's much better than I expected it to be, and my kids are enjoying it. They might be oddballs though.

[Dianthus]

18 minutes ago, barnwife said:

Well, I might not be the type of person you want answering. I am a former private and public teacher who now HS her kids. And the longer I HS, the more I lean toward science and history before high school being for enjoyment. FWIW, our oldest is 11. We don't do formally planned/scheduled history or science at this point, but neither is it totally unschooling. I choose interesting books to read through for each as part of our morning time. There is no formal output. I read aloud. They listen. Sometimes questions/discussion happen. Sometimes not. 

I also make sure that our bookshelves have interesting nonfiction and not just fiction. 

At this point, our kids think history and science are interesting. Oldest definitely prefers nonfiction to fiction, and is an avid reader. I am starting to think about how to transition him to formal output for these things, but have no concrete plans yet.

So, I will firmly be in the "if you aren't enjoying history or science in the elementary/middle school years, change something" camp.  I'd rec our world history, except it's Catholic, so you probably aren't interested. The US history book we are using is The Complete Book of United States History. I saw someone here recommend it. Though I was skeptical, it's much better than I expected it to be, and my kids are enjoying it. They might be oddballs though.

How can you tell I'm not catholic?

It has alway been fun before, so it's hard to see them bored with history and ds's astronomy is awful . I've never switched course material in the middle of the year so I'll see how it goes with our public homeschool. I feel somewhat that we should finish what we start but also desperately feel the need to simplify and that I'm wasting precious time when we could be enjoying school and I really hate there's no time for read alouds and want to remedy that.

[Xahm]

My kids have really been enjoying Hakim's History of US this year. I read it aloud, and we typically have a related novel and movie each month, and a field trip when we can. I think it's very age appropriate but honest, with the assumption that America is a noble experiment that has made and still makes mistakes while working towards high ideals. There are 10 books (we're doing 6 this year), and I would guess you could just start at wherever point in American history you've gotten so far in the disliked curriculum.

[8filltheheart]

At age 10 if it is making learning an unpleasant experience vs. encouraging a desire to learn more and sparking interests, then I would drop it without 2nd thought and find other materials that cover the same topics in a more engaging way.  For American history in elementary school, for example, my kids read a list of biographies and books based on major events in American history.  (Biographies of people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Paul Revere, Lincoln, etc, and books on the French Indian War, the Revolution, the War of 1812, the Oregon Trail, and on forward to present times.)

Science is whatever the heck they want to study.  (My 12 yod is currently reading Discover Nature at Sundown.)

[barnwife]

1 hour ago, Spirea said:

How can you tell I'm not catholic?

Ha, fair question...I should have said that while I recognize your screen name, I don't particularly remember you posting about being Catholic or not. And, ime, posters (people) who aren't Catholic aren't interested in overtly Catholic curriculums, particularly for history. 

If you are Catholic and/or interested in the world history we use, it's TAN's Story of Civilization. The audio version is excellent. 

Whether you use any of my suggestions or not, I hope you find a path that works for you!

[Dianthus]

2 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

At age 10 if it is making learning an unpleasant experience vs. encouraging a desire to learn more and sparking interests, then I would drop it without 2nd thought and find other materials that cover the same topics in a more engaging way.  For American history in elementary school, for example, my kids read a list of biographies and books based on major events in American history.  (Biographies of people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Paul Revere, Lincoln, etc, and books on the French Indian War, the Revolution, the War of 1812, the Oregon Trail, and on forward to present times.)

Science is whatever the heck they want to study.  (My 12 yod is currently reading Discover Nature at Sundown.)

I need to identify a curriculum for our school requirements. I don't think I can just say we are reading biographies, though we have done that in the past along with Sotw or bookshark or summer reading.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Spirea

[lulalu]

It isn't worth it to spend time on a boring curriculum. I love parts of MP, but science was a bust here. It was so boring and far too detailed. Drop what isn't working for something that will get done. 

[8filltheheart]

19 minutes ago, Spirea said:

I need to identify a curriculum for our school requirements. I don't think I can just say we are reading biographies, though we have done that in the past along with Sotw or bookshark or summer reading.

Don't say you are "just reading biographies."  You list the titles of the books you are reading.  They are the curriculum.  Unless you have to use an approved pre-packaged curriculum, books are 100% acceptable as your curricula.

[Porridge]

For science, how about going through one of the TOPS science books? They are very hands on (sounds like your son likes hands on stuff).   Electricity or the magnetism ones are pretty cool, and you could probably do it in a semester. It is a “curriculum” that you can easily report for school.

[Ting Tang]

5 hours ago, Spirea said:

I realize winter doldrums, but I'm really hating getting back into MP.

I'd like to change my ds10's science for the 2nd semester. He loves building things and makes really fantastic linkages and gear assemblies with his legos. He's also interested in coding. I don't know if there's a 1 semester course that would cover this. He could also tag along with younger brother's mystery Science. He actually watching all the vids with him already.

I'm not sure whether I should abandon 13 Colonies and the Great Republic. My kids haven't had an American history course though have had a lot of supplements. It is dry, and the reading is awkward so I don't know they are getting a lot out of it. I do still like the idea of memorizing the 200 questions about American history. Not sure if we should continue and finish or abandon and go into SOTW 4.

I am thinking they can continue classical studies reading as they want but I won't force the workbooks.

Well, you know I've had the same thoughts!  We are going to tough it out.  I tried "switching it up" a bit in October, but my son was weirded out. For the sake of stability, we are just going to stay the course.  However, I am definitely going to do a lot of soul searching for next year.  I hyped MP up so much.  I want my children to be mini college students, LOL.  I guess they're not, ha ha!  I know color and illustrations can be distractions, but I think they help my kids.  Or at least letting them color in black and white photos...lol  Science is...kinda an afterthought sometimes, but one child loves that he has memorized the brightest stars. The other loves that he can draw constellations with ease.  I got a subscription to an astronomy magazine to help the rest of our year, a planisphere, etc.  My main gripe is all the "pieces" I felt we needed....or that we might be missing out on.  My son even took a break from classical writing.  He doesn't need to do all the Fable lessons I decided.  He can do enough, grasp it, and move on.  For lit, we are doing a winter intesive they offered for $10. After that, he is just going to read good books.  We are going to do some Roald Dahl and others he got for Christmas.

[Lucy the Valiant]

5 hours ago, barnwife said:

Well, I might not be the type of person you want answering. I am a former private and public teacher who now HS her kids. And the longer I HS, the more I lean toward science and history before high school being for enjoyment. FWIW, our oldest is 11. We don't do formally planned/scheduled history or science at this point, but neither is it totally unschooling. I choose interesting books to read through for each as part of our morning time. There is no formal output. I read aloud. They listen. Sometimes questions/discussion happen. Sometimes not. 

I also make sure that our bookshelves have interesting nonfiction and not just fiction. 

At this point, our kids think history and science are interesting. Oldest definitely prefers nonfiction to fiction, and is an avid reader. I am starting to think about how to transition him to formal output for these things, but have no concrete plans yet.

So, I will firmly be in the "if you aren't enjoying history or science in the elementary/middle school years, change something" camp.  I'd rec our world history, except it's Catholic, so you probably aren't interested. The US history book we are using is The Complete Book of United States History. I saw someone here recommend it. Though I was skeptical, it's much better than I expected it to be, and my kids are enjoying it. They might be oddballs though.

+1

4 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

At age 10 if it is making learning an unpleasant experience vs. encouraging a desire to learn more and sparking interests, then I would drop it without 2nd thought and find other materials that cover the same topics in a more engaging way.  For American history in elementary school, for example, my kids read a list of biographies and books based on major events in American history.  (Biographies of people like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, Paul Revere, Lincoln, etc, and books on the French Indian War, the Revolution, the War of 1812, the Oregon Trail, and on forward to present times.)

Science is whatever the heck they want to study.  (My 12 yod is currently reading Discover Nature at Sundown.)

Just echoing support for this interest-led style . . . it can be scary if you've always trusted a curriculum, but once you jump . . . You can soar.

2 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:

Don't say you are "just reading biographies."  You list the titles of the books you are reading.  They are the curriculum.  Unless you have to use an approved pre-packaged curriculum, books are 100% acceptable as your curricula.

^ 100%. Some modern educational systems / gurus "feel better" when this type of learning carries a fancy name  - "Colonial American Perspectives" . . . or "Cultural Leaders of the Industrial Age." ---> Lends itself well to documentaries and field trips, too. (If you need fancy titles, start a new thread with the list of biographies you've read, and this crazy hive will do you solid with the descriptive course titles. 😉 )

[Dianthus]

So today we started late because I was up for 3 hrs with the screaming 1 yr old. Worst sleeper ever. So we didn't start until at least 9. Dd12 did math corrections + another lesson  (Saxon 8/7), MP lit Magicians Nephew and guide, MP Birds science, MP grammar, Spelling Workout, Handwriting, Spanish practice and violin practice. She did not do Latin or writing. Dd7 did math, LOE, violin practice but did not do Mystery Science or Spanish. Ds10 did math corrections and another lesson, Spelling, GSWL, a random MP Core grammar page, not the ones in his schedule 🙄, Spanish, and his MP Dangerous Journey lit and guide. All this was done by about 3:30, when I had to take dd to do blood work. Ds10 did not do grammar, science or writing or his music practice, so had to do later.

I will have more time when ds7 finishes LOE in two more lessons. Oh, I didn't do any MP reading with him today either. I DID A READ ALOUD!! That was great. I ate lunch first, made their lunch and read while they ate and I fed baby. Not quite a chapter but was so nice to get back to it. I've been afraid my little guys listening skills would be gone but he was happy to listen even when done eating. 

I am going to work with our school to pare it down. The MP just is not want I wanted to focus on. We do interest led often in summer or as extra. I just fill the library basket with what they want. But I think the key is that the usual subject matter is just so much more interesting. I have other problems in having a hard time planning the day, having so many kids,  ds10 constantly disappearing, but cutting out the busy work and making it fun would go a long way to help. I just have a clear curriculum for our school requirements. I'll check my supply closet for extras to work with, so I can declare a spine.

Eta , oh, and no history got done either. Eta again, except they were watching Liberty's Kids when I got home with dd, so that's got to count, ha!

Edited January 11, 2022 by Spirea

[Lucy the Valiant]

^You've got this, mama! 

And Liberty Kids TOTALLY counts for history. It's January. Of a pandemic.

[Dianthus]

There are so many things I wanted to do but have not had time. I wanted to read CHotW to ds7. We may have read 2 chapters. We have not been doing geography. I hate MPs and it never gets done because we pieced together the curriculum and it's not on the schedule. I love Draw the World and we haven't done any of it this year. We haven't been able to read LoF, and haven't had time for lit read alouds. We haven't done any art.

Dd has been keeping up with MP's schedule but leaves math until last and has skipped many days because MP takes so long and has only done 45 of, I think, 120 lessons for the year. I'm making her do math first thing now and want her to complete at least 6 lessons per week, but I hate that she's so far behind. She's a solid month behind. The boys are nearly on lesson 80 of math. Of course, their lessons are shorter. I'm super annoyed with myself she's so far behind, but I was also behind on grading and didnt notice that she dropped a couple lessons every week. It's so hard for me to grade at night after dinner and cleaning and then so tired.

I think I'll ask to move to Sotw 4. I have the audio, but it doesn't look like I have the books, so will need to order. It's still covering American history, and I'll consider trying to keep up with the 200 questions. 

I the I'll ask to move ds10 to Mystery Science. That would be simplest.

And I need a schedule. Math first, no exceptions, especially for dd. She just wants to dive into the books.

I am considering abandoning their curriculum guide, at least for Ds10. We'll just do one lesson per week in grammar, but I don't think he'll be using anything else.

I need to get writing back on track too. We have missed weeks at a time.

My schedule free, by the seat of my pants method that worked for 7 years is not working now with schooling 3 kids and a toddler. I really hate making a schedule. It just goes against my grain somehow. But I need one.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Spirea

[8filltheheart]

FWIW, it has always been easiest for me to grade immediately after they finish or even as they complete problems. Right now I am homeschooling 10th, 6th, and 5th graders. I grade the 10th grader's math problem by problem bc it takes so long for 1 to be completed. I alternate grading multiple problems each for the other 2 at the same time. My 5th grade granddaughter finishes math way before the other 2. I call out her spelling words or she reads silently while the other 2 continue to work on math. 

I would cringe if I had to face grading after teaching all day. When we finish, I'm done. All grading is incorporated into our daily school time.

[Lori D.]

20 hours ago, Spirea said:

...I'd like to change my ds10's science for the 2nd semester. He loves building things and makes really fantastic linkages and gear assemblies with his legos. He's also interested in coding. I don't know if there's a 1 semester course that would cover this. He could also tag along with younger brother's mystery Science. He actually watching all the vids with him already.

I'm not sure whether I should abandon 13 Colonies and the Great Republic. My kids haven't had an American history course though have had a lot of supplements. It is dry, and the reading is awkward so I don't know they are getting a lot out of it. I do still like the idea of memorizing the 200 questions about American history. Not sure if we should continue and finish or abandon and go into SOTW 4.

I am thinking they can continue classical studies reading as they want but I won't force the workbooks.

re: switching Science
The start of the new semester is a great time to make changes. Especially in the elementary up through middle school grades, Science and History work great as "units". So, consider it as having done one unit of Science with MP last semester, and move on to the cool new hands-on unit on high interest.

re: Coding
coding courses for kids -- from Code Academy
list of coding classes for kids
Coding for Kids: 35+ Free Classes, Websites, Apps

re: History
It sounds like American history is what you want to cover, but the choice of material is not working. Textbook-based is pretty dry. If your kids are learning from the more engaging supplements, feel free to go with that, and add books they can solo-read or you do as read-alouds. Read and talk about the times to make connections and explore; watch interesting shows; documentaries; and feature films set in different time periods; visit museums and historical sites; etc.

Side note: While memorizing 200 key facts sounds tidy, realistically, most people don't retain factoids long-term. And if they do, it's just random facts rather than information that they have really seen in context and made connections with. And that's what you really want -- a good foundation of information that has meaning and context for the student to draw on later as they move into higher thinking and start doing deeper studies and analysis.

re: classic studies reading & workbooks
 I am NOT a workbook fan, esp. for reading (unless the child absolutely loves workbooks). Workbooks for literature tend to be a series of comprehension questions. If you read together you can talk about the book as you go, and you can see for yourself if your child is "getting" what is happening -- so no need for workbooks. And far more interesting questions and topics tend to arise naturally out of talking about something you're reading together, or that you have your student tell you about what they're reading.

[Dianthus]

I told dd we were switching to SotW, and she said, "Oh, good!" then asked if she could have the Gruber to finish on her own.

She loves to read. I think I will just get the supplemental books from the library and assign her those along with maps instead of trying to do SotW tests.

[JennyD]

On 1/10/2022 at 5:10 PM, Spirea said:

I need to identify a curriculum for our school requirements. I don't think I can just say we are reading biographies,

On 1/11/2022 at 12:17 AM, Spirea said:

think I'll ask to move to Sotw 4. I

I the I'll ask to move ds10 to Mystery Science.

Are you in some sort of program that has strict limits on what you can do?  When you say "ask," whom are you asking?  I am a little fuzzy on your homeschooling situation.

 

 

[Dianthus]

2 minutes ago, JennyD said:

Are you in some sort of program that has strict limits on what you can do?  When you say "ask," whom are you asking?  I am a little fuzzy on your homeschooling situation.

 

 

We're enrolled in a public school's homeschool program. We can use most curricula as long as it doesn't contain religious content. If a course has religious content, it does not count towards our min course requirements and cannot be funded. I've not changed midyear like this but it is before the deadline for changes.

I was able to make those changes and ordered the Sotw books.

Whew! SUCH a relief. I have removed about 10 MP books and have at least 6" extra space on my shelf. I haven't decided whether to continue the classical studies. Also haven't decided about grammar. I think Fixit would be more enjoyable and certainly faster for my kids.

[Ting Tang]

2 hours ago, Spirea said:

We're enrolled in a public school's homeschool program. We can use most curricula as long as it doesn't contain religious content. If a course has religious content, it does not count towards our min course requirements and cannot be funded. I've not changed midyear like this but it is before the deadline for changes.

I was able to make those changes and ordered the Sotw books.

Whew! SUCH a relief. I have removed about 10 MP books and have at least 6" extra space on my shelf. I haven't decided whether to continue the classical studies. Also haven't decided about grammar. I think Fixit would be more enjoyable and certainly faster for my kids.

My MP stuff frequently slides off my shelving, lol.  I just noticed we missed three topics in "Timeline."  ha ha! 

[Dianthus]

Need another plan. Told ds10 he'd be doing mystery Science. He said, "I've already seen all those videos. I only like the bonus ones. Couldn't we just get books at the library, like anatomy or something?" Maybe he's been reading the forums??

[Lucy the Valiant]

1 minute ago, Spirea said:

Need another plan. Told ds10 he'd be doing mystery Science. He said, "I've already seen all those videos. I only like the bonus ones. Couldn't we just get books at the library, like anatomy or something?" Maybe he's been reading the forums??

Haha! (Is there a reason he CAN'T do that?)

[Dianthus]

2 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Haha! (Is there a reason he CAN'T do that?)

I don't know. I've never tried to do something without a curriculum. I feel I need a good plan before I present it.

But low cost would be good since I already spent my entire school budget, with a good portion on the lame MP materials. I actually have tons of science books ds has never seen that I got after a school library closed.

[Lucy the Valiant]

27 minutes ago, Spirea said:

I don't know. I've never tried to do something without a curriculum. I feel I need a good plan before I present it.

But low cost would be good since I already spent my entire school budget, with a good portion on the lame MP materials. I actually have tons of science books ds has never seen that I got after a school library closed.

You could try it for 2 weeks! 

"Good plan" = delight-directed reading with him telling you something cool about each book and then (maybe) doing 1 fun thing connected to the books (Lego model, watch a documentary, feed local bird species). And then you write THAT down as if it were the plan all along! 

 

[Dianthus]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:36 PM, Lucy the Valiant said:

You could try it for 2 weeks! 

"Good plan" = delight-directed reading with him telling you something cool about each book and then (maybe) doing 1 fun thing connected to the books (Lego model, watch a documentary, feed local bird species). And then you write THAT down as if it were the plan all along! 

 

Oh no, I can do my own thing no problem. I do in the summer. I need a good plan for our school registration. They approve the curriculum used and I don't know if "parent designed" is ever allowed. I'm too fastidious to list a curriculum and not use it. Like I can't just leave it as MP Astronomy and then just do other stuff instead.

[8filltheheart]

12 hours ago, Spirea said:

Oh no, I can do my own thing no problem. I do in the summer. I need a good plan for our school registration. They approve the curriculum used and I don't know if "parent designed" is ever allowed. I'm too fastidious to list a curriculum and not use it. Like I can't just leave it as MP Astronomy and then just do other stuff instead.

I would not label it "parent designed." I would list the books being used and the educational objectives of the course bc that is the definition of curriculum.  Here is an eduspeak definition: 

Quote

The term curriculum refers to the lessons and academic content taught in a school or in a specific course or program. In dictionaries, curriculum is often defined as the courses offered by a school, but it is rarely used in such a general sense in schools. Depending on how broadly educators define or employ the term, curriculum typically refers to the knowledge and skills students are expected to learn, which includes the learning standards or learning objectives they are expected to meet; the units and lessons that teachers teach; the assignments and projects given to students; the books, materials, videos, presentations, and readings used in a course; and the tests, assessments, and other methods used to evaluate student learning. An individual teacher’s curriculum, for example, would be the specific learning standards, lessons, assignments, and materials used to organize and teach a particular course.

When I have had to submit course information to the state, I write in terms of eduspeak.  Prefab packaged curriculum is not the only validly acceptable option to meet state requirements.  FWIW, unless you are purchasing curriculum geared specifically toward classrooms, homeschool-oriented curriculum options are typically "parent designed," designed by homeschool parents who have gone on to publish their plans.  It's not like parents are writing the science books or history books but are instead using books they selected.