Different symptoms for new Covid variant

[Laura Corin]

13 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Ban everybody entering the country who isn’t vaccinated. Period. 
We have locked up kids at home for a year but we can’t stop unvaccinated people from coming in? 
 

Odds of vaccinated people bringing in new variants are much smaller than non vaccinated. we can absolutely limit our exposure if there is political will to do so. 

Everyone? That American student graduating from a Scottish university who isn't vaccinated because she is too young to have been offered the jab?

[Penelope]

53 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Ban everybody entering the country who isn’t vaccinated. Period. 
We have locked up kids at home for a year but we can’t stop unvaccinated people from coming in? 
 

Odds of vaccinated people bringing in new variants are much smaller than non vaccinated. we can absolutely limit our exposure if there is political will to do so. 

That isn’t going to accomplish anything IMO. We have lots of variants already here. No country sequences every single case, and some don’t look much at all, so we don’t even have 100% certainty that a variant began in the place that we think it did. And then there have been similar mutations arising in multiple places. And we have plenty of unvaccinated people of our own, so keeping out travelers doesn’t make sense to me at this point.
 

The best thing we could do is to do as much as we can to help vaccinate the rest of the world. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Penelope

[Roadrunner]

38 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Everyone? That American student graduating from a Scottish university who isn't vaccinated because she is too young to have been offered the jab?

Non American citizens traveling into the country. Yes. Obviously under 12 year olds can’t be asked to be vaccinated, but until this situation is resolved, we need to lock down. I am going to predict widespread vaccine availability by the end of the year.

[Roadrunner]

5 minutes ago, Penelope said:

That isn’t going to accomplish anything IMO. We have lots of variants already here. We don’t sequence every single case, so we don’t even have 100% certainty that a variant began in the place that we think it did. And then there have been similar mutations arising in multiple places. And we have plenty of unvaccinated people of our own, so keeping out travelers doesn’t make sense to me at this point.
 

The best thing we could do is to do as much as we can to help vaccinate the rest of the world. 

. While we are fighting on this front domestically, at least make sure we aren’t importing more trouble. Common sense to me. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Roadrunner

[Laura Corin]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Non American citizens traveling into the country. Yes. Obviously under 12 year olds can’t be asked to be vaccinated, but until this situation is resolved, we need to lock down. I am going to predict widespread vaccine availability by the end of the year.

Okay. I suppose allowing only Americans to enter unvaccinated would cut down on transmission but not eliminate it. 

[mathnerd]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

Ban everybody entering the country who isn’t vaccinated. Period. 
We have locked up kids at home for a year but we can’t stop unvaccinated people from coming in? 
 

Odds of vaccinated people bringing in new variants are much smaller than non vaccinated. we can absolutely limit our exposure if there is political will to do so. 

I don't want to go into how the legalities of that might work - I am not a public policy person, but know that there are trade implications and economic impacts of doing that.

But, the opposite problem is happening now as we speak: I am hearing that tons of unvaccinated americans are headed off to Europe for summer vacations where Delta is spreading at an alarming rate and that the cruise lines from Florida, Mexico and SoCal are operating full swing (and the crusie lines originating there only test passengers periodically, don't insist on vaccination) and tons of americans are off cruising because they are very upset at being locked up in their homes as well. There is no easy solution to this. BTW/ 3rd world countries, have their own indigenous vaccines which do not have as much efficacy as Pfizer and Moderna and there is high probability that even if they provide documentation of vaccination using their home country's vaccines, they might be carriers of Delta.

Edited June 16, 2021 by mathnerd

[Roadrunner]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

Okay. I suppose allowing only Americans to enter unvaccinated would cut down on transmission but not eliminate it. 

Well, I would ask all who are eligible and traveling to be vaccinated frankly. But I could see why you couldn’t ban a guy with a passport returning home. 
Until we get a better handle on this worldwide and have deployed vaccines in areas where mutations can be particularly terrible (people in countries with large population of untreated AIDS patients for example), we all need to be more cautious. Europeans are asking for vaccination cards or creating a system of some sorts, why can’t Americans do the same? Any help at this point to improve the situation and prevent another surge would be welcome, and millions of unvaccinated travelers are simply not helping. 

[Penelope]

But the US hasn’t done that for any other contagious disease. There are some that are recommended, but none required.  Most domestic measles outbreaks have been from overseas travel, but we don’t require measles vaccination to come in. Polio, hepatitis, could be brought in at any time, but we do not require them. 

[Roadrunner]

2 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I don't want to go into how the legalities of that might work - I am not a public policy person, but know that there are trade implications and economic impacts of doing that.

But, the opposite problem is happening now as we speak: I am hearing that tons of unvaccinated americans are headed off to Europe for summer vacations where Delta is spreading at an alarming rate and that the cruise lines from Florida, Mexico and SoCal are operating full swing (and the crusie lines originating there only test passengers periodically, don't insist on vaccination) and tons of americans are off cruising because they are very upset at being locked up in their homes as well. There is no easy solution to this. BTW/ 3rd world countries, have their own indigenous vaccines which do not have as much efficacy as Pfizer and Moderna and there is high probability that even if they provide documentation of vaccination using their home country's vaccines, they might be carriers of Delta.

Right. That’s why I am saying get the tourists vaccinated! Apparently banning people from opening their private businesses due to pandemic is legal, but asking international travelers to show vaccination records is too much?. 🤷‍♀️

[Roadrunner]

Just now, Penelope said:

But the US hasn’t done that for any other contagious disease. There are some that are recommended, but none required.  Most domestic measles outbreaks have been from overseas travel, but we don’t require measles vaccination to come in. Polio, hepatitis, could be brought in at any time, but we do not require them. 

But no other disease he grounded the entire planet to a halt lately. When measles outbreak forces the entire nation to lock up, then maybe we would ask the same? Common sense. 
 

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Right. That’s why I am saying get the tourists vaccinated! Apparently banning people from opening their private businesses due to pandemic is legal, but asking international travelers to show vaccination records is too much?. 🤷‍♀️

Travel from countries that have surges is banned, isn't it?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-other-countries.html

[mathnerd]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Right. That’s why I am saying get the tourists vaccinated! Apparently banning people from opening their private businesses due to pandemic is legal, but asking international travelers to show vaccination records is too much?. 🤷‍♀️

Florida passed a law that says that it is illegal to ask for vaccination status. Can you imagine the number of cruise ships leaving Miami in a month? Why ban international travelers from coming into america when americans are definitely going to bring back the virus as the pandemic is still gong on.

https://www.flgov.com/2021/05/03/governor-ron-desantis-signs-landmark-legislation-to-ban-vaccine-passports-and-stem-government-overreach/

 

[happi duck]

Aren't vaccines required for travel to certain parts of the world already? (Before covid) I assumed covid vaccine would be added to the list.

I'm angry if unvaccinated Americans are traveling and returning.  

[Roadrunner]

Just now, Laura Corin said:

Travel from countries that have surges is banned, isn't it?

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-other-countries.html

Is this enforced? Because I know people who have gotten here just recently from some of these countries. 
And didn’t somebody mention a ton of people were coming from Asia to get vaccinated here? I am lost.

 

[happi duck]

It really is true that covid 19 has proven the saying "avoid it like the plague" to be false.

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Is this enforced? Because I know people who have gotten here just recently from some of these countries. 
And didn’t somebody mention a ton of people were coming from Asia to get vaccinated here? I am lost.

 

Are they US citizens?

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

Florida passed a law that says that it is illegal to ask for vaccination status. Can you imagine the number of cruise ships leaving Miami in a month? Why ban international travelers from coming into america when americans are definitely going to bring back the virus as the pandemic is still gong on.

https://www.flgov.com/2021/05/03/governor-ron-desantis-signs-landmark-legislation-to-ban-vaccine-passports-and-stem-government-overreach/

 

Because Americans have a right to return to their own home. It is not our fault Mexico isn’t asking for vaccination cards. That doesn’t mean we can’t ask others. Again, if a group of Americans is causing issues and bringing back virus mutants, does that mean we need to worsen the situation and allow everybody to do so? What sort of logic is that? 

I know for sure Canada had very strict travel restrictions. We checked couple of months ago and there was no exception even for vaccinated individuals. I think US is pretty much open. 

[Roadrunner]

5 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Are they US citizens?

No. That’s the confusing part. I wonder how. 

that list (travel restrictions) by the way makes no sense. 😏

Edited June 16, 2021 by Roadrunner

[mathnerd]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Is this enforced? Because I know people who have gotten here just recently from some of these countries. 
And didn’t somebody mention a ton of people were coming from Asia to get vaccinated here? I am lost.

 

The Taiwanese and Mexicans that I heard of, who are coming in to have vaccinations have dual citizenship. So, they can enter anytime because they have an American passport.

[Roadrunner]

1 minute ago, mathnerd said:

The Taiwanese and Mexicans that I heard of, who are coming in to have vaccinations have dual citizenship. So, they can enter anytime because they have an American passport.

Yes, dual citizens make sense.

 

[Laura Corin]

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Yes, dual citizens make sense.

 

Three quarters of my family, including two not yet vaccinated, are dual citizens and could enter the US.

[Roadrunner]

6 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Three quarters of my family, including two not yet vaccinated, are dual citizens and could enter the US.

Look at the list of countries. It’s very limited. You don’t need to be a citizen to travel. Anybody can travel. Citizen or not. We aren’t asking anybody for a proof of vaccination as far as I know. We need to be. 

[mathnerd]

27 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

Because Americans have a right to return to their own home. It is not our fault Mexico isn’t asking for vaccination cards. That doesn’t mean we can’t ask others. Again, if a group of Americans is causing issues and bringing back virus mutants, does that mean we need to worsen the situation and allow everybody to do so? What sort of logic is that? 

I know for sure Canada had very strict travel restrictions. We checked couple of months ago and there was no exception even for vaccinated individuals. I think US is pretty much open. 

My point was totally different. As long as we have politicians who are supported by voters who subscribe to the anti-vax philosophy, there will be laws that protect unvaccinated people from any repercussions of spreading the disease. If a particular state government bans any status check on vaccines on its citizens, then they are probably of the mind that not checking vaccination status of incoming tourists might attract more tourists and thereby improve touristy, restaurant businesses, theme park businesses, cruise line revenue, hotel stay revenues, bars and nightclub revenue etc etc. There are many politicians who simply don't care about "worsening the situation" as they believe that this virus is a hoax (or need to say that in order to keep their voters happy).

And as an afterthought: as long as there are unvaccinated people in america (some areas have 20-30% vaccination rates in America) the virus will mutate and we might produce our own Delta-like strain of this virus which could be much more contagious than the original Covid strain.

PS: trying not to make this thread political in order to stick to forum rules.

Edited June 16, 2021 by mathnerd

[Penelope]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

But no other disease he grounded the entire planet to a halt lately. When measles outbreak forces the entire nation to lock up, then maybe we would ask the same? Common sense. 
 

Is it really “common sense” though? I would think it is something that would need to be analyzed by the epidemiologists, and even then, it seems like it would be based on many hypothetical assumptions. I don’t agree that restricting travel to or from the US is simply a common sense issue. There must be so many implications to doing so. 
 

The nation isn’t locked up now and won’t be again. I do not believe US will do that. Lockdown, at least in the arbitrary ways the US did it, isn’t the norm for a public health reaction, and I hope that it doesn’t become so, at least not for this virus. 
 

Maybe you are right, and maybe they will do it, but I don’t see that the political will is there to do so. 
And how is it right to restrict travel when so many people around the world have not had the opportunity to get vaccinated yet? And how can you restrict some from some countries that have had the opportunity but refused, but let others in that just haven’t had the opportunity yet. It could be a big mess with lots of unfair rules that are slow to be changed. As in, I’m pretty sure we still have travel restrictions on countries that were started early in 2020 before we had our own huge waves of disease. 
 

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Penelope

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

But no other disease he grounded the entire planet to a halt lately. When measles outbreak forces the entire nation to lock up, then maybe we would ask the same? Common sense. 
 

Maybe greater common sense would be that the entire planet should not have been halted. Certainly not beyond 2 weeks to get a handle on the situation. 

[Laura Corin]

Latest information on symptoms largely from Delta variant, which is dominant in the UK, based on vaccination status. Vaccines are a mix of Pfizer, Moderna and AZ.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-top-5-covid-symptoms?utm_source=App

Edited June 25, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Melissa Louise]

3 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

Latest information on symptoms largely from Delta variant, which is dominant in the UK, based on vaccination status. Vaccines are a mix of Pfizer, Moderna and AZ.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/new-top-5-covid-symptoms?utm_source=App

Thanks Laura, that's helpful. 

After two vaccinations, I woke up with a sore throat, so got tested. 

[Laura Corin]

1 hour ago, Melissa Louise said:

Thanks Laura, that's helpful. 

After two vaccinations, I woke up with a sore throat, so got tested. 

Good luck!

[TCB]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:33 PM, Laura Corin said:

Okay. I suppose allowing only Americans to enter unvaccinated would cut down on transmission but not eliminate it. 

At the moment only American citizens or people with US residency can enter direct from the UK anyway. Anyone else has to spend 2 weeks in a country without those restrictions before they can enter, for instance Mexico, which seems weird to me, because I can’t imagine that Mexico is doing a better job at keeping things under control. 
I heard an interview with the CEO of a hospital, in a city that is fairly local to me, and he said that they were finding the Delta variant in 90% of the people being tested in that community - not sure exactly how that is determined - and their hospitals are full, not just with Covid but a lot of Covid, and they are having to ship patients out to hospitals some distance away. This area is very close to a well known vacation spot with visitors from all over.