Pros and Cons of math acceleration?

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Lori D. said:

Agree.

That's why I suggested above "going wide", in the way that @wendyroodoes with a variety materials she listed above. Unless a homeschooling parent (or school teacher) is not only strong with math, but also *strong in how to teach math* and come at it from a variety of angles as the student is *ready* for higher concepts, I think there is a lot of potential for the scenarios @wendyroo suggests here.

I think there are middle-of-the-road scenarios, though, where a kid gets introduced to some good concepts in 6th grade but then gets lost somewhere in the middle and has to slow down. And if we're talking a tutor or Derek Owens after school for algebra, then it seems like it's totally possible to take things at more or less the kid's pace, in which case this scenario seems very plausible. And it DOES allow hard concepts a longer time to marinate, which is a good thing. 

[Lori D.]

15 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

...  if he achieves his goal of being an NHL goalie, that whether or not he took multivariable calculus in 11th grade won't make a difference, so let's look at the other option.  Let's say he becomes an engineer, which is the mathiest of professions I think is likely for him.  In what ways would taking Algebra in 6th vs 7th vs 8th make a difference in his experience, or in the outcome? 

Most likely, if going into Engineering, the future university will require he take their Calculus sequence, regardless of whether or not he took and aced AP Calculus or dual enrollment Calculus classes. That is what I see here with our state public university that has a strong Engineering program.

(Of course, YMMV at other universities, and even our state university could always change its policies in a few years...)

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Lori D. said:

Most likely, if going into Engineering, the future university will require he take their Calculus sequence, regardless of whether or not he took and aced AP Calculus or dual enrollment Calculus classes. That is what I see here with our state public university that has a strong Engineering program.

(Of course, YMMV at other universities, and even our state university could always change its policies in a few years...)

Yes, that's been the case where I've taught. 

[Lori D.]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think there are middle-of-the-road scenarios, though, where a kid gets introduced to some good concepts in 6th grade but then gets lost somewhere in the middle and has to slow down. And if we're talking a tutor or Derek Owens after school for algebra, then it seems like it's totally possible to take things at more or less the kid's pace, in which case this scenario seems very plausible. And it DOES allow hard concepts a longer time to marinate, which is a good thing. 

Yes, that's true.

Also, there is the middle-of-the-road scenario in which the kid completely burns out on math by high school, and now is stuck, because they took the higher maths prior to high school, and need a minimum # of math credits to graduate from high school/be accepted for college admissions -- and don't have the least interest in doing Calculus + 2 more advanced maths in high school to check that box... 😢

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Yes, that's true.

Also, there is the middle-of-the-road scenario in which the kid completely burns out on math by high school, and now is stuck, because they took the higher maths prior to high school, and need a minimum # of math credits to graduate from high school/be accepted for college admissions -- and don't have the least interest in doing Calculus + 2 more advanced maths in high school to check that box... 😢

That's not a middle-of-the-road scenario. That's a scenario where you ignore a LOT of red flags along the way. 

To be clear, I did say this is only a reasonable path if there are high school credits available that are likely to seem interesting to the kid in question. But on average, having taught lots of kids, I would say that kids enjoy stats a lot more than average. And combinatorics and probability a lot more than algebra. And linear algebra a lot more than algebra. Algebra is a workhorse: it's tedious and dull but necessary for other subjects. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Lecka]

I hear that the benefit is letting science classes be spread out over a longer period in high school.  

I hear a benefit that there is a chance to take Calculus over two years.  

I hear a benefit that there's time to take Statistics without doubling up on math one year.  

I hear a benefit that it can keep some kids from getting bored with math.  

I hear a benefit that it can give competitive kids a chance to compete and get some recognition in that way.  

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

I hear that the benefit is letting science classes be spread out over a longer period in high school.  

I hear a benefit that there is a chance to take Calculus over two years.  

I hear a benefit that there's time to take Statistics without doubling up on math one year.  

I hear a benefit that it can keep some kids from getting bored with math.  

I hear a benefit that it can give competitive kids a chance to compete and get some recognition in that way.  

Yes. All of those. Those are the reasons for us. 

Mind you, we wouldn't do it with a kid who wasn't ready or wasn't interested. But at least for my kids, moving forward at the pace they like has so far increased and not decreased interest. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Lecka]

I also think there are parents who think it is good for their kids' self-esteem to be advanced in math, and it will cause them to think they are good at math.

And on the other hand, if they aren't advanced, maybe they will feel like they are poor at math.  

I don't know how common this is, but I think this is how some people think, and so they think they will be sending a message their child is poor at math, if they are not advanced.  

[Lori D.]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's not a middle-of-the-road scenario. That's a scenario where you ignore a LOT of red flags along the way. 

The situation in my area does not fit this statement.

The majority of students go to public/private school. (Homeschoolers make up less than 5% of K-12 students -- I'm talking pre-pandemic, of course.).

So the majority of 6th grade students who are going to be exposed to those good concepts and higher math concepts at that younger age -- it will be because the school is teaching Algebra 1 in 6th grade.

In my area, there is a huge push right now in the schools to have students take Algebra 1 at ever-younger grades. That is becoming the new "middle-of-the-road" scenario, because everyone is buying into the idea that more rigor = Algebra at younger ages.

There is no ignoring of red flags going on -- there is a complete failure on the part of the schools and parents to believe that there even is such a thing as a red flag when it comes to Algebra at younger grade levels.


ETA - What Lecka just said dovetails into what I am seeing as a big trend:

9 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I also think there are parents who think it is good for their kids' self-esteem to be advanced in math, and it will cause them to think they are good at math.

And on the other hand, if they aren't advanced, maybe they will feel like they are poor at math.  

I don't know how common this is, but I think this is how some people think, and so they think they will be sending a message their child is poor at math, if they are not advanced.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by Lori D.

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

There is no ignoring of red flags going on -- there is a complete failure on the part of the schools and parents to believe that there even is such a thing as a red flag when it comes to Algebra at younger grade levels.

OK, but we're not talking about that situation, mostly likely. We're talking about the option where they negotiate with the private school to do math after school. 

As for red flags for algebra... they are the same as red flags for anything else. I've met almost as many kids whose teachers never realized they didn't understand fractions as kids who were left behind in algebra. There's no special magic about algebra. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Clemsondana]

The biggest pros are that he could take physics with calc (although he might have to dual enroll to get it) and also that he could take more advanced math if he were interested, whether it be post-calc math or statistics.  The downside is that, in some schools, once you get on a track it's hard to get off.  We've known parents locally who were told that they couldn't repeat a grade because their student was doing fine (one family is paying for private school for a year to let their kid get some maturity and solidify their academics).  I can't imagine they'd let a student make a second pass through a subject, either.  You might be able to pull it off in middle school or between middle and high since it's 2 different schools, but once you get to high school I don't think there's much mechanism to repeat a class unless you fail.  In my remembrance of school, grades mattered but understanding did not, and they didn't always correlate.  

[Lori D.]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, but we're not talking about that situation, mostly likely. We're talking about the option where they negotiate with the private school to do math after school. 

As for red flags for algebra... they are the same as red flags for anything else. I've met almost as many kids whose teachers never realized they didn't understand they didn't know fractions as kids who were left behind in algebra. There's no special magic about algebra. 

But that's not really middle-of-the-road either. That's asking for a specific extra option.

Esp. public school teachers often have their hands tied (whether they see or try to act on red flags), and are forced to push students on, whether the student has learned the material or not, because the school needs the $$ and needs their graduation ## to look good. The horror stories of educational decline coupled with administrative dictates that I have heard from a good friend who taught English for over 30 years at a local public high school... It is enough to make you weep for the several generations of students who have been falling through the cracks...

Edited January 25, 2021 by Lori D.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Lori D. said:

But that's not really middle-of-the-road either. That's asking for a specific extra option.

It's the specific scenario in the OP's question. That's why I'm addressing it... 

[mathnerd]

@BaseballandHockey regarding the fact that he needs 4 years of high school math, there are several paths to take if he hits Calculus by 9th or 10th grade. Go to a HS that offers Post-AP math courses, Dual Enrollment, Advanced Research in math guided by a staff and so on. I live in an area where there are tons of kids who follow these paths in HS and they tend to get placed appropriately when they eventually get to college.

There are many reasons to accelerate a kid in math, if he is gifted and motivated. Some of the reasons that are given for linear math progression of non-gifted kids do not work well for an extremely mathy and motivated kid. Mine was super accelerated: but, that was because he used to ask all the time when he was going to learn "Real Math" as he knew everything he was supposed to learn already. There is a whole school of thought in the gifted education community about how and why a kid should be accelerated in math. For a more practical reason in favor of accelerating Math, the accelerated class would have the kids with the most mathematical talent and Peer Group is something that can significantly change how a child views math and what the child gains from the class. For that one reason alone, it is beneficial to accelerate math. Algebra 1 at 6th grade is not extraordinary in most School Districts in my area because most PS kids who excel in math take afterschool classes in math (e.g. RSM, AOPS academy) where they are well ahead of that level. If he works on filling in any gaps in his preAlgebra in the next 7 months, I guess that he will be able to transition smoothly to Algebra 1 in the Fall.

[Lecka]

ClemsonDana — here I think there are things like being allowed to take College Algebra and Pre-Calculus even though one is not a prerequisite for another.

Taking Statistics for a year is fine.

I think there are some options.

Edit:  I think it would depend if there were options locally.  

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Lecka

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, mathnerd said:

Some of the reasons that are given for linear math progression of non-gifted kids do not work well for an extremely mathy and motivated kid.

Honestly, I think doing non-linear stuff with kids who aren't accelerated but aren't behind is a good idea, too. The math kids see in school is often really tedious. I think taking a path through more of the concepts is basically good for lots of kids, if you aim the level correctly. 

[GoodGrief3]

22 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

My fifth grader found out that his same age cousin is planning to test to take Algebra in 6th grade.  So, naturally, since the two of them compete about everything, he wants to take Algebra in 6th grade too.  I think he could probably do it.  He'd need to do preAlgebra over the next 8 months, but he's capable of that, I think.

But, I'm not sure if I actually want it. I'd love to hear people's thoughts about the pros and cons of accelerating, when it doesn't seem to be driven by a passion for math.  

If we do decide to do this, what's the best way to go about it?  One idea I had was to do something like Derek Owens PreAlgebra, and let him set the pace.  If he finishes by the beginning of sixth, then I'll put him in Algebra, either in Derek Owens, or through the public schools if covid numbers come down and he's back to in person learning.  

My second daughter did algebra in the 6th grade. She was a highly motivated and independent student though.

The primary con for us was the scramble to find appropriate resources to continue the math sequence in a homeschool setting. She was a busy person, and scheduled classes were a challenge to fit in, so we were reluctant to use university courses more than necessary. I think that would be easier now, as there are probably a greater variety of asynchronous university options.

A less significant con was the need to do special math review before the PSAT/SAT, as the tested math was a few years past. Luckily we clued into the problem early with a 1oth grade PSAT that showed a big math dip.

Pros are allowing a student to work at the level that engages them 🙂 My daughter was well prepared for engineering coursework at Princeton (graduated near top of her engineering class, and now interviewing for Ph.D programs.)

We used (the much maligned) Teaching Textbooks through Alg 2. Moved on to Derek Owens for precalc and Calc AB. Calc 2 and 3 at university. Stats through AP Homeschoolers.

Edited January 25, 2021 by GoodGrief3

[lewelma]

20 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm just curious: is pre-algebra ever NOT review? 

I did 4 pre-algebra math programs over 3 years with my younger boy: Singapore, part of AoPS, Life of Fred, and Mathematics: A human endeavor.  Definitely, NOT review. He loved each one for different reasons.  

My older boy did Algebra for 3 years with AoPS. There was simply no need to call it done in a year and move on to geometry. 

I think that math is what you make of it. I would be very hesitant to keep a child's math progression tied to competition with a school kid. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, lewelma said:

Definitely, NOT review.

How so? 

[GoodGrief3]

21 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Well, no, we could just stop math after Beast Academy, and he could run around outside and play basketball and build robots and bake cookies and take PreAlgebra in the fall. 

 

You know honestly...that sounds like a healthy option. I would probably leave it up to him. If he wants to cram in prealg now, well, that's his choice. He could always stop and restart in fall if he decides the prize is not worth the time. Cousin may ultimately slow down too.

Editing to add, now that I am reading that you don't intend to continue homeschool...well, to me, the acceleration would be way more headache than it is worth in an institutional school setting.

Edited January 25, 2021 by GoodGrief3

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, GoodGrief3 said:

 

Pros are allowing a student to work at the level that engages them 🙂

Agreed. 

[lewelma]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

How so? 

Singapore was just computation and word problems, a basic program.

Life of Fred was story form and he loved it.  He got through the Biology and Economics book.  I think maybe the physics too, but I can't remember.

Mathematics: A Human Endeavor expanded him out into more interesting/beautiful math that did not require much algebra.

AoPS was theory.

I stalled him because of his dysgraphia.  He could not Encode language into mathematics, so pushing forward in algorithmic algebra was not where I wanted to go. Sure he could have pounded out algebra in the way schools do, but without the ability to use it or understand it in a meaningful way.  I think it is critical to engage a kid with where they are at, and from my point of view if you cannot *use* math, then learning algorithmic skills is a waste of time. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, lewelma said:

Singapore was just computation and word problems, a basic program.

Life of Fred was story form and he loved it.  He got through the Biology and Economics book.  I think maybe the physics too, but I can't remember.

Mathematics: A Human Endeavor expanded him out into more interesting/beautiful math that did not require much algebra.

I think I bought Mathematics: a Human Endeavor at some point 🙂 . We should go through it when we get back to NY... we didn't have much geometry at that point, so it didn't seem doable just yet. But we've been doing geometry now. 

 

Just now, lewelma said:

AoPS was theory.

I stalled him because of his dysgraphia.  He could not Encode language into mathematics, so pushing forward in algorithmic algebra was not where I wanted to go. Sure he could have pounded out algebra in the way schools do, but without the ability to use it or understand it in a meaningful way.  I think it is critical to engage a kid with where they are at, and from my point of view if you cannot *use* math, then learning algorithmic skills is a waste of time. 

You know I agree with that 🙂 . 

I guess maybe the broader point here is that pre-algebra is whatever you want it to be, lol. You can call anything prealgebra, as long as it doesn't use algebra... 

[GoodGrief3]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 Let's say he becomes an engineer, which is the mathiest of professions I think is likely for him.  In what ways would taking Algebra in 6th vs 7th vs 8th make a difference in his experience, or in the outcome? 

Eh, in my opinion, not much of a difference. I think the robot building and other hands on applications would be more valuable.

People get hung up on the idea of having to "repeat" certain math classes at university. That thought never bothered me. I do think it can be an advantage to have already been introduced to the material, especially in the midst of a generally tough freshman engineering sequence of classes.

[lewelma]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

 

I guess maybe the broader point here is that pre-algebra is whatever you want it to be, lol. You can call anything prealgebra, as long as it doesn't use algebra... 

Agreed. We did lots and lots of fun wonderful math without getting into algorithmic algebra. This training allowed my younger boy to be able to do 3 equations 3 unknowns from a word problem without having ever seen the algebraic algorithm. Way more powerful mathematical training if you can intuitively see and understand relationships and not rely on plug and chug.  So it is not that I held him back, we did algebra level work but not with algorithms. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, GoodGrief3 said:

Eh, in my opinion, not much of a difference. I think the robot building and other hands on applications would be more valuable.

I dunno. I think there's a pretty large number of kids who can't hack the math and drop out of STEM majors. At least that's what I hear... 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, lewelma said:

Agreed. We did lots and lots of fun wonderful math without getting into algorithmic algebra. This training allowed my younger boy to be able to do 3 equations 3 unknowns from a word problem without having ever seen the algebraic algorithm. Way more powerful mathematical training if you can intuitively see and understand relationships and not rely on plug and chug.  So it is not that I held him back, we did algebra level work but not with algorithms. 

Like with everything, I really prefer to teach algorithms as the endpoint of a LOT of exploration. 

[GoodGrief3]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I dunno. I think there's a pretty large number of kids who can't hack the math and drop out of STEM majors. At least that's what I hear... 

Probably has little to do with prealgebra vs algebra in 6th grade though 🙂

[lewelma]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Like with everything, I really prefer to teach algorithms as the endpoint of a LOT of exploration. 

You and I agree! I've never been in any hurry over here with my boys. 

[lewelma]

1 minute ago, GoodGrief3 said:

Probably has little to do with prealgebra vs algebra in 6th grade though 🙂

Yup. Math U See vs AoPS for intro Algebra in 6th would be 2 totally different experiences.  People say 'algebra' in 6th, but really we have no idea what they are talking about.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, GoodGrief3 said:

Probably has little to do with prealgebra vs algebra in 6th grade though 🙂

Well, as I've said... I think it's good for kids to be introduced to important algebra CONCEPTS early. That doesn't tend to mean complete algebra course over here, though. 

@BaseballandHockey, what I'd really want to know is which of these options actually seems plausible. Because if it's just doing Derek Owens via pullout... couldn't he do something else, like work with a tutor, at that time? Is there any option where he'd FEEL like he was doing algebra and "keeping up" with his cousin, but he was actually just getting good exposure to the concepts? 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

Yup. Math U See vs AoPS for intro Algebra in 6th would be 2 totally different experiences.  People say 'algebra' in 6th, but really we have no idea what they are talking about.  

That's a really good point. 

What I would never want in 6th grade is tons of algorithmic drilling. That's just not useful for a little kid. 

[GoodGrief3]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

Yup. Math U See vs AoPS for intro Algebra in 6th would be 2 totally different experiences.  People say 'algebra' in 6th, but really we have no idea what they are talking about.  

Ha, well, for us it was Teaching Textbooks Algebra. Which really was fine, but I know causes mathy types to recoil, lol

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, GoodGrief3 said:

Ha, well, for us it was Teaching Textbooks Algebra. Which really was fine, but I know causes mathy types to recoil, lol

I think lots of things are fine if either the kid is motivated or the parent can fill in the gaps. 

I basically taught everything myself through math contests 😛 . That worked fine for me. I wouldn't recommend it in general. 

[lewelma]

MIT requires all students to take Calculus 1 and 2 in their first year.

1) They can take the final exam and place out Calc 1 and calc 2

2) They can take the final exam and place out of Calc 1, and take calc 2 in the fall term

3) They can do an accelerated class in fall term: Calc1 for 4 weeks, and then Calc 2 for the rest of the fall term.

4) They can do the standard stream: Calc 1 in the fall term, Calc 2 in the spring term

5) They can do the stretch class: Calc 1 in the fall term and in January term (so an extra 4 weeks) and then Calc 2 in the spring term

The point is that even at MIT, a large percentage of the class still takes calculus and doesn't jump into multivariate. MIT knows that some kids have to take or retake calc, and some of them even need a stretch class. 

 

[lewelma]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's a really good point. 

What I would never want in 6th grade is tons of algorithmic drilling. That's just not useful for a little kid. 

I completely agree. And I'm guessing that is what a school kid in 6th grade algebra will be doing. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

I completely agree. And I'm guessing that is what a school kid in 6th grade algebra will be doing. 

Well, they are considering an option where they pull him out and he does something independently, I think. Which seems like a relatively flexible option?? 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[lewelma]

4 minutes ago, GoodGrief3 said:

Ha, well, for us it was Teaching Textbooks Algebra. Which really was fine, but I know causes mathy types to recoil, lol

At some point a kid has to learn how to do more than drill and kill.  You can use any program you want and beef it up, or explain it deeply.  But I think you know what I mean that some kids just learn algebra as a manipulation of numbers and letters with no idea how to use it or why to use it.  If you haven't seen this in you experience, you should meet the kids I tutor!

[lewelma]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I completely agree. And I'm guessing that is what a school kid in 6th grade algebra will be doing. 

 

I haven't read the whole thread. Just the part about his cousin doing algebra in 6th, so wondering the pros and cons of following this time table for her ds.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I haven't read the whole thread. Just the part about his cousin doing algebra in 6th, so wondering the pros and cons of following this time table for her ds.

I guess I don't know that trying to keep up RIGHT NOW will mean he will always want to keep up. He's spent a lot of time working alongside this cousin recently. It's natural that he's currently feeling competitive with her. Plus, there's been a lot of upheaval. I'm not surprised he wants to channel his desire for control and normalcy into something like this. 

But I don't see that this means that he's going to follow along whatever she does for the next 6 years. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Coco_Clark]

I'll just share my personal experience, with a child that skipped Pre-A in 6th grade in order to begin Algebra.

He was coming off Beast, like your DS, and looking over the available Pre-A options, they all felt like review. He tested out of MM7 and the AOPS "do you need this" pre-A test. We looked at AOPS Algebra and decided it was too intense/took up too much time for a child with a lot of other focuses (community theatre 5-6x a week, high school level coding classes, ect).  Instead, we went with Jacobs.

On the one hand, it went well. He was ready for the math. What he wasn't ready for was the...format?  I guess the executive functioning of working from a (dry) textbook, not a (fun) workbook, and the plain number of problems.  What I wasn't ready for was the emotional rollercoaster that is 11/12.  In the end he finished Jacobs in a year and a half.  It wasn't a bad experience per se, but I wouldn't make the decision again.  I think he would have benifited from a middle step, or even *gasp* an easier year.

Que his brother this year. 5th grade and finishing Beast 5 mid year (we just began D). Already tested out of AOPS Pre-A.  But we are just going to do it anyways.  One, with AOPS you know even review is rigor.  But mostly, I think Pre-A is just as much about the executive functioning jump from grammar school to high school than it is about the math.  And I can already feel the hormonal storm starting 😬

*It's interesting to note that the public school boy I have in between these two also had very light 6th/7th grade math years. I do not think this is a coincidence. They know something about kids this age.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Coco_Clark

[lewelma]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess I don't know that trying to keep up RIGHT NOW will mean he will always want to keep up. He's spent a lot of time working alongside this cousin recently. It's natural that he's currently feeling competitive with her. Plus, there's been a lot of upheaval. I'm not surprised he wants to channel his desire for control and normalcy into something like this. 

But I don't see that this means that he's going to follow along whatever she does for the next 6 years. 

I don't really have an opinion as I haven't read the thread.  Just responding to the idea that prealgebra math is just all review. Which does not have to be true. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, lewelma said:

I don't really have an opinion as I haven't read the thread.  Just responding to the idea that prealgebra math is just all review. Which does not have to be true. 

But the prealgebra option is IN school, I think. So then it's likely to be review. 

[wendyroo]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess I don't know that trying to keep up RIGHT NOW will mean he will always want to keep up. He's spent a lot of time working alongside this cousin recently. It's natural that he's currently feeling competitive with her. Plus, there's been a lot of upheaval. I'm not surprised he wants to channel his desire for control and normalcy into something like this. 

But I don't see that this means that he's going to follow along whatever she does for the next 6 years. 

But by then he may not have many options.

The schools is not going to let a 7th grader skip math, so if he takes algebra in 6th then he will more or less be forced into geometry in 7th. Same goes for 8th when he will be pushed into algebra 2. 9th will be pre-calc and 10th will be calc. The US school system doesn't really allow for many exit ramps off the math highway; once you enter at pre-algebra, the only real detour available before calculus will be if you fail a class and have to repeat it.

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

But by then he may not have many options.

The schools is not going to let a 7th grader skip math, so if he takes algebra in 6th then he will more or less be forced into geometry in 7th. Same goes for 8th when he will be pushed into algebra 2. 9th will be pre-calc and 10th will be calc. The US school system doesn't really allow for many exit ramps off the math highway; once you enter at pre-algebra, the only real detour available before calculus will be if you fail a class and have to repeat it.

Here's what the OP said was her son's favorite option: 

"The third option would be to send him back to the small private he was attending previously, which doesn't have either a PreA or an Algebra option in 6th.  There are covid reasons, and social reasons to do that.  If we did that, we could ask that he get pulled out to do something like Derek Owens, or do 6th grade math and other math after school.   Right now, this is his favorite idea. " 

I do not see that your comment applies. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

17 minutes ago, Coco_Clark said:

On the one hand, it went well. He was ready for the math. What he wasn't ready for was the...format?  I guess the executive functioning of working from a (dry) textbook, not a (fun) workbook, and the plain number of problems.  What I wasn't ready for was the emotional rollercoaster that is 11/12.  In the end he finished Jacobs in a year and a half.  It wasn't a bad experience per se, but I wouldn't make the decision again.  I think he would have benifited from a middle step, or even *gasp* an easier year.

Yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that. I like doing algebra with kids as early as possible. I would NOT do a class designed for a high school student with a 6th grader. Those are compatible statements 😉 . 

[wendyroo]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Here's what the OP said was her son's favorite option: 

"The third option would be to send him back to the small private he was attending previously, which doesn't have either a PreA or an Algebra option in 6th.  There are covid reasons, and social reasons to do that.  If we did that, we could ask that he get pulled out to do something like Derek Owens, or do 6th grade math and other math after school.   Right now, this is his favorite idea. " 

I do not see that your comment applies. 

Maybe. But I think his private school only goes to 8th grade.

And if they can't accommodate a 6th grader taking either pre-algebra or algebra, then they probably also can't let a 7th grader take geometry. So if he gets frustrated with online learning mostly on his own during or after school, then his only other 7th grade options may be Math 7 or pre-algebra.

Same issue in 8th grade because it sounds like he will be two years out of synch with the school offerings (I can't even really fathom a school not even offering pre-algebra in 6th grade).

And then he will transfer to a high school and have to choose between repeating a class he has already taken or moving on to the next class whether he is completely ready or not.

My experience with school settings is just much more discrete options rather than the variability homeschooling allows of taking a bite of algebra here, dipping a toe into tessellations there, backtracking to master long division, etc.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, wendyroo said:

And then he will transfer to a high school and have to choose between repeating a class he has already taken or moving on to the next class whether he is completely ready or not.

But the point is that he could take algebra again, if he's not solid. 

[EKS]

The best thing about getting to high school math 1, 2, 3 or more years early is that it gives you time to slow down if necessary when the math is harder.  This only works if the student is homeschooled.

The next best thing is that it gives the student some time to play with other sorts of math.  My son ended up two years accelerated when he went to the local public high school in 9th grade.  He took honors precalculus in 9th and BC calc in 10th and that gave him time to take two years of statistics, which he loved.  Note there is no need to take multivariable calculus in high school even if you're ready for it.

[Drama Llama]

Thanks everyone. 

To be clear, this is a crisis schooled kid.  It’s possible that next year he’ll be home because of covid, but if so it will likely be with me working full time.  But even if his return to school is delayed, the eventual plan is school.  

What he wants is to be on the Algebra in sixth grade track.  He wants that badge of honor of being in the top group. He wants to take Algebra in 6th and Geometry in 7th.  My concern is exactly what @wendyroo raises, that once he is on that path, it’s hard to get off, and he could easily end up in a place where staying on the track involves more work than he’s willing to put in.

On the other hand, being an extroverted athletic ten year old on lockdown during a pandemic is no fun, and if this is something that he thinks he would enjoy then I hate to say no to it.  In addition, for the sake of diplomacy, having two kids who are the same age, very similar abilities and are together for much of the day, and forcing math on one and then not having the other do math could get awkward. 

I did speak to the principal of the private school.  She suggested just having him do PreA with the 7th graders or Algebra with the 8th graders, but then he’d miss whatever his class is doing then.  I am not sure that’s the answer.  She also didn’t say no to the idea of him doing a separate curriculum, just that she needs time to make a decision.