What does "discussing history" look like in your homeschool?

[cintinative]

This seems like a silly question to me, but I have it, so I am asking.

My son has to read primary sources for history. Then he answers questions in a study guide and we are supposed to discuss them. There is no answer key so I read the books myself and attempted to do my best to answer the questions.  

Other than just discussing our answers, what would "discussing" look like for you?  I feel stupid.  Thank you.

[royspeed]

How old is your son? — I might expect an 8th-grader to discuss things differently than a 12th-grader.

If your student is truly reading primary sources, that's awesome.

Among the things I do...  I try to encourage my students to notice what's right in front of them — including their own reactions to specific aspects of the document:

• Was there anything here that you found surprising? —  What, exactly? What was surprising about that?
• What do you notice about the "voice" of this writer? — How does he or she sound to you?
• Was there anything here you found really easy to read & understand? —  What, exactly?
• Was there anything here you found really hard to read or understand? —  What, exactly? 
  [Go to the difficult passage; then:] What was it exactly that made this hard to follow?
  [Have your student pinpoint the things in the writing that the student found challenging, e.g., unusual words; allusions to events or customs the student is unfamiliar with; long, tangled sentence structures, etc.]

Not a complete list, obviously...

[EKS]

It looked like me reading stuff aloud and either my son or I interrupting every few minutes with commentary that often morphed into a full blown conversation.  Any attempts I made to formalize discussions or make them anything other than what they were naturally were immediately perceived as contrived and rejected.

I read all core resources aloud even when my kids were older teens specifically because it allowed for these sorts of natural exchanges.  

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by EKS

[EKS]

4 hours ago, royspeed said:

Among the things I do...

@royspeed Are you a homeschooler or a classroom teacher?  The reason I ask is that the one on one nature of homeschooling frequently requires an approach that doesn't rely on the instructor asking questions that the student is supposed to answer--which can end up feeling like an interrogation.  A genuine back and forth is much better.  In a classroom, the students would provide this for each other, but in a homeschool situation the instructor must provide it.  It is a difficult line to walk and one that I mastered only in the last few years of my homeschooling career.

Edited December 10, 2020 by EKS

[Lori D.]

Our history and literature discussions were very similar to what @EKS described in her first post. Mostly, we read the material together and discussion often flowed directly out of what we were reading.

Your materials may include specific discussion questions, which can be a helpful springboard. If you can do both students together, you'll have a discussion group of 3, which is what we did, and it helped make DSs feel less "put on the spot" or "quizzed". 

You might consider having DSs sometimes take the teacher guide and ask the questions of you. Then you can model complete answers and how to make connections, and how to support your response with specific examples from the materials. Or, once in awhile, use a discussion question as a short (1 paragraph) written reader response prompt.

Asking "how" and "why" questions, and looking for connections and consequences to choices are helpful for starting history discussions. Also, below are some very broad Socratic Questions -- in RED are questions that might especially help with History discussions

1. Questions for clarification:
• Why do you say that?
• How does this relate to our discussion?

2. Questions that probe assumptions:
• What could we assume instead?
• How can you verify or disapprove that assumption?

3. Questions that probe reasons and evidence:
• What would be an example?
• What is....analogous to?
• What do you think causes to happen...? Why:______?

4. Questions about Viewpoints and Perspectives:
• What would be an alternative?
• What is another way to look at it?
• Would you explain why it is necessary or beneficial, and who benefits?
• Why is the best?
• What are the strengths and weaknesses of...?
• How are...and ...similar?
• What is a counterargument for...?

5. Questions that probe implications and consequences:
• What generalizations can you make?
• What are the consequences of that assumption? [What were the consequences of that leader/nation's choice?]
• What are you implying?
• How does...affect...?
• How does...tie in with what we learned before?

6. Questions about the question:
• What was the point of this question?
• Why do you think I asked this question?
• What does...mean?
• How does...apply to everyday life? [How to those past events connect to today, or to another time/event?]

Edited December 10, 2020 by Lori D.

[cintinative]

33 minutes ago, royspeed said:

How old is your son? — I might expect an 8th-grader to discuss things differently than a 12th-grader.

If your student is truly reading primary sources, that's awesome.

Among the things I do...  I try to encourage my students to notice what's right in front of them — including their own reactions to specific aspects of the document:

• Was there anything here that you found surprising? —  What, exactly? What was surprising about that?
• What do you notice about the "voice" of this writer? — How does he or she sound to you?
• Was there anything here you found really easy to read & understand? —  What, exactly?
• Was there anything here you found really hard to read or understand? —  What, exactly? 
  [Go to the difficult passage; then:] What was it exactly that made this hard to follow?
  [Have your student pinpoint the things in the writing that the student found challenging, e.g., unusual words; allusions to events or customs the student is unfamiliar with; long, tangled sentence structures, etc.]

Not a complete list, obviously...

Thank you! Yes, my 9th grader is reading primary sources. His first one was Augustine's Confessions.  😃

[elegantlion]

Questions I ask my students - granted I do this at the college level, so adjust for your specific level. 

What is the audience for this source - was it for public or private - ie: speech or a letter, etc. 

Who was the author? An important political figure, an everyday citizen, an immigrant, an enslaved person, etc. 

What does this source tell you about the period of history you're studying? 

What words do you not understand? Do you need to look them up? Can you reason it from context? - In other words, what do you need to do, what can I help you with to understand this document. 

How does this fit with other viewpoints in this particular slice of history?  - Some students have a hard time understanding that one historical document cannot speak for everyone of the time period. 

Does this document have bias? - which can be good and bad

What does the author leave unsaid?  - I love this question because this is where many historians start research out of curiosity of what is not in the source or what kind of implied knowledge the source requires. 

My students read generally 5-7 documents, usually snippets,  a week and try to figure out how those souces convey the "voices of the past." We spend 50 minutes as a group discussing them. Some authors who put together primary source readers, put sources together by theme - the American history reader we use focuses overall on freedom, but uses sources from leaders, immigrant, women, persons of color, and/or indigenous peoples. 

 

You could do this in a very socratic type fashion, letting the conversation develop organically. Fun exercises might be to grammatically pick apart sentences, this is fun in colonial American documents, not as much if you're working with simple translations. 

Other activities might be connecting the sources - how does this source tie in with what you've already read. Did these people know each other?

Another question could be how truthful the document is - not just to the individual author but to that slice of society. For instance, my students read a week of documents from immigrants, some indentured servents, some not. Two write back home to Europe - one discussing the greatness of America, you must come, there is land for everyone, etc.The other source talks about the horrendous treatment they've received as an indentured servant and begs their father to send money for clothes. So an experience can be invididual and based upon status and wealth of an individual. 

 

Two of my favorite primary sources are: The Letter of Jourdan Anderson to his former master. He's being truthful, but it's full of, for lack of a better word, snark. 

 

My other favorite are medieval college students writing home for support. These are great conversation starters. 

 

If I were doing this with one student, I'd add a lot of my input, and in my opinion, if a college level discussion lasts 50 minutes in a group, a 15 minute discussion (good discussion) over a snippet would be sufficient for me. If they're reading complete books, I'd require longer. Some sources are easier to discuss than others and each source lends itself to a different way of discussing. 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by elegantlion

[EKS]

Another way to structure a discussion is to discuss the prompt (or several prompts) for an essay that has been assigned to the student.  This allows you to really get into the weeds on a particular question and it seems less contrived because it is attached to an expectation for output that will (presumably) be evaluated.  I found this worked particularly well when someone else had given the assignment.  

[cintinative]

3 hours ago, EKS said:

Another way to structure a discussion is to discuss the prompt (or several prompts) for an essay that has been assigned to the student.  This allows you to really get into the weeds on a particular question and it seems less contrived because it is attached to an expectation for output that will (presumably) be evaluated.  I found this worked particularly well when someone else had given the assignment.  

Do you mean someone else wrote the essay prompt or that the essay was written for another class?

[EKS]

3 hours ago, cintinative said:

Do you mean someone else wrote the essay prompt or that the essay was written for another class?

That the essay was written for another, outside, class.

Edited December 11, 2020 by EKS

[mom2scouts]

We use Tapestry of Grace and it has teacher's notes and discussion questions. I also have a history lover who already has extensive knowledge on some subjects or will read beyond the assignments, so I'm the one who's usually learning something new.

[katilac]

On 12/10/2020 at 11:58 AM, EKS said:

It looked like me reading stuff aloud and either my son or I interrupting every few minutes with commentary that often morphed into a full blown conversation.  Any attempts I made to formalize discussions or make them anything other than what they were naturally were immediately perceived as contrived and rejected. 

Same. It seems time-consuming, but really it's no more so than having to each read the material separately, come up with a plan/questions, and prod discussion, lol.

Reading separately, answering questions in writing separately, then coming together for discussion is a classroom construct that you don't need to copy. Guided discussion that students are prepared for can of course be very effective in the right circumstances (higher level students who are interested and motivated), but that's usually not a high school & homeschool situation. 

Try going through the material together and see how it works. Get comfortable with the idea that there will be subtopics and answers neither of you understand - we would often look up further info right then and there. Sometimes we gained clarity right then, sometimes one of us found out more later, sometimes we simply acknowledged that we didn't get it and didn't care to pursue it further. 

The list of questions can still be a useful tool, although I would look them over before doing the reading. 

[Porridge]

Thank you elegant lion and LoriD!

Edited December 13, 2020 by JHLWTM