Anyone here doing high school aiming for college using Life of Fred?

[2_girls_mommy]

Hi! I have never posted here on this board.  But I am thinking about my dd15, currently a sophomore, and need some direction. 

I have specific questions about Life of Fred.  Background: I have a 15 year old very smart, hard working girl, who struggles with dyslexia. She has trouble with math too. She does fine when we work together (fine being subjective here. There are tears of frustration because it is so hard some days. But she really tries ) If I sit with her and work through with her she usually gets a lesson. But she can easily forget everything everyday. And no matter what, she is terrible on tests, no matter how much she gets the material.

She is enrolled into our state's free tuition program for college. So I have to keep her in certain classes, and she has to make a certain score on her ACT, not a super high one, but higher than you need to just get into community college, to get the free tution. Even if she is just going to community college the first two years, she needs that ACT score to get the free tuition. We are counting on that. 

So this has to be her Algebra year. She has to get through Alg. 2 for the tuition program. We are finishing up Rod and Staff arithmetic grade 8, which is really just prealgebra. It has taken us this long to get through that book (started it beginning of last year.) 

I was looking at LOF thinking I could finish that over second semester and the summer, putting her into a Geometry class next year, hopefully mr. D's online. So  has anybody actually used LOF for high school and do you have any suggestions?  Does the beginning Alg. coincide with Alg. 1 and the advanced Alg. as Algebra 2? 

Also I saw they have a chemistry. So real stretch here. She has to have chemistry too. Anybody use that? 

 

[mumto2]

We are LoF fans but did other math courses also.

Our first LoF class was Geometry .........the one thing I remember was the LoF Geometry assumes you have done the second algebra course which is different than the math progression for many other popular programs with Geometry taught between Algebra 1 and 2.  I would make sure she has covered the prerequisites for the outsourced Geometry Just in case the LoF Algebra 1 differs from the sequence in other courses.

Edited December 17, 2019 by mumto2
Typo

[2_girls_mommy]

1 hour ago, mumto2 said:

We are LoF fans but did other math courses also.

Our first LoF class was Geometry .........the one thing I remember was the LoF Geometry assumes you have done the second algebra course which is different than the math profession for many other popular programs with Geometry taught between Algebra 1 and 2.  I would make sure she has covered the prerequisites for the outsourced Geometry Just in case the LoF Algebra 1 differs from the sequence in other courses.

I guess that is kind of what I am wondering about. I could technically do Alg 1 and 2  before Mr ds geometry if we like LOF and do geometry senior year too.  I was going to get the extra practice books for daily work if I go this route, plus start slowly adding in Kahn Academy SAT practice. It will start her at the beginning. I even thought about having her take the PSAT just to link the Kahn with it, but I am afraid that is just too stressful for her. Still pondering that... 

How about the chemistry? have you looked at it? I saw it says includes lab assignments. 

[Pen]

I can’t answer about LoF — my son used some much younger stage, and is now in public school probably not going to go to college.  

But, may I ask what state has a free tuition program?!?!

[2_girls_mommy]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

I can’t answer about LoF — my son used some much younger stage, and is now in public school probably not going to go to college.  

But, may I ask what state has a free tuition program?!?!

sent you a pm! 

[mumto2]

2 hours ago, 2_girls_mommy said:

I guess that is kind of what I am wondering about. I could technically do Alg 1 and 2  before Mr ds geometry if we like LOF and do geometry senior year too.  I was going to get the extra practice books for daily work if I go this route, plus start slowly adding in Kahn Academy SAT practice. It will start her at the beginning. I even thought about having her take the PSAT just to link the Kahn with it, but I am afraid that is just too stressful for her. Still pondering that... 

How about the chemistry? have you looked at it? I saw it says includes lab assignments. 

I just lost a long post so briefly.  The Chemistry........it was published after my kids did Apologia so I have knowledge because my kids used something else for high school chemistry.  We do own the book,  my kids read it for fun, and I just pulled and looked at it.  The Labs are not extensive but could easily be supplemented with something like GPB http://www.gpb.org/chemistry-physics.  There are good worksheets etc http://www.gpb.org/chemistry-matters/unit-2/separating-mixtures do some downloads

My Dd once said regarding the LoF Calculus.........Fred made her fearless even if it wasn’t complete! 😉 Btw, Dd now has a math degree so her need for completeness was higher than most!

[2_girls_mommy]

1 hour ago, mumto2 said:

I just lost a long post so briefly.  The Chemistry........it was published after my kids did Apologia so I have knowledge because my kids used something else for high school chemistry.  We do own the book,  my kids read it for fun, and I just pulled and looked at it.  The Labs are not extensive but could easily be supplemented with something like GPB http://www.gpb.org/chemistry-physics.  There are good worksheets etc http://www.gpb.org/chemistry-matters/unit-2/separating-mixtures do some downloads

My Dd once said regarding the LoF Calculus.........Fred made her fearless even if it wasn’t complete! 😉 Btw, Dd now has a math degree so her need for completeness was higher than most!

Well, that's good. I am still not sure if it will work for us or not. I tried using one of the LOF prealgebras as a supplement last year, and it was a flop. But I think it was because it was too much to keep up with both. So I am going to try it again as a stand alone just this last semester... I think. I put on hold at the library to look through anyway. My oldest is in preCalc now with Mr.d as a senior, so I don't think either of mine will make it to Calculus under me anyway, lol. But who knows? maybe the next one will make it that far! 

[mumto2]

24 minutes ago, 2_girls_mommy said:

Well, that's good. I am still not sure if it will work for us or not. I tried using one of the LOF prealgebras as a supplement last year, and it was a flop. But I think it was because it was too much to keep up with both. So I am going to try it again as a stand alone just this last semester... I think. I put on hold at the library to look through anyway. My oldest is in preCalc now with Mr.d as a senior, so I don't think either of mine will make it to Calculus under me anyway, lol. But who knows? maybe the next one will make it that far! 

Your library has LoF.....so envious!  I hope it works. In my experience Fred either clicks and the kid loves it or it flops.  If your daughter doesn’t love it you will know quickly.  Which Pre Algebra are you trying?

[2_girls_mommy]

11 minutes ago, mumto2 said:

Your library has LoF.....so envious!  I hope it works. In my experience Fred either clicks and the kid loves it or it flops.  If your daughter doesn’t love it you will know quickly.  Which Pre Algebra are you trying?

We worked about halfway through preAlgebra with Biology last year while doing Rod and Staff as our main curric. But since we were doing one lesson of Fred over a week or two, she'd forget what she'd had there instead of it being a reinforcement. So I want to try it on its own . Yes, our library has it and the practice problems. I can probably just keep rechecking it for the whole year. I often do it with texts that mine carries. Don't hate me. 🙂 They don't have the chemistry though. And it's not a cheap book to buy just to look at. I'm not even finding any used of it for a good price. 

[mumto2]

18 minutes ago, 2_girls_mommy said:

We worked about halfway through preAlgebra with Biology last year while doing Rod and Staff as our main curric. But since we were doing one lesson of Fred over a week or two, she'd forget what she'd had there instead of it being a reinforcement. So I want to try it on its own . Yes, our library has it and the practice problems. I can probably just keep rechecking it for the whole year. I often do it with texts that mine carries. Don't hate me. 🙂 They don't have the chemistry though. And it's not a cheap book to buy just to look at. I'm not even finding any used of it for a good price. 

Any chance the library would buy it if you put in a request?  

Also take a look at the sample pdf.  There might be more out there. 

My kids liked the biology one.  They did the whole thing with dad supervision when I was with my mom for a couple of weeks.  I was so grateful for those books!

[Storygirl]

I have not used Life of Fred, but I do have a child with dyslexia and another with a math disability and a third who found math hard. So I have a couple of thoughts to throw out.

1) My impression might be off, but isn't Life of Fred typically used by more advanced students, instead of those that struggle? I have also heard on the boards that it does not provide many practice problems and does not give complete explanations all of the time but assumes prior knowledge or that students have a foundational understand that it didn't drill or teach. If I'm wrong, someone should chime in, but I really wonder if it is the best choice for a student who struggles.

2) Many with dyslexia have trouble with working memory, which affects math. If she had evaluations and received a diagnoses, a good psych should have given in their report a list of accommodations that she should be using. Check your paperwork to make sure you are tailoring her classwork to her needs, so that she has the greatest possiblity of learning the material and having it stick in her memory.  If she has not had an evaluation, now is the time to get one -- with paper documentation, she may get extra time on the ACT, which it sounds like she really needs.

3) It might help you to make another post that doesn't specify Life of Fred in the title, if you would like to get some tips from others on the LC board about how to help her with math. People may not peek into your thread if they don't have experience with LoF, even if they have valuable math tips to offer you. If you describe more specifically what she is struggling with, people generally have great tips to offer.

4) Sometimes starting from an end point (* she has to be at X by graduation*) and working backward to decide what the student should work on now (*in order to achieve X, she needs to be doing Y*) really backfires. Because the student may not be ready for Y. In your case, she may be ready to start algebra now, but considering that it took her two years to get through the 8th grade math level, I think expecting to get through algebra in a year or less is very risky. The subsequent levels of math  -- and success on the ACT -- will depend upon her having a solid understanding of algebra, so I would focus more on what program will achieve understanding and less on how long it will take.

5) Can she take an extra year of high school or a gap year, in which she continues to work on math skills, before taking the ACT or starting college? That will allow her more time to learn the math without the time pressure.

6) Just for comparison, my oldest took the ACT in February, while she was taking her algebra 2 class (she is taking precalc this year). She always struggled with math but gets good grades now in her brick and mortar school, due to a patient and good teacher who gives her extra help as needed. She self-studied for the ACT with a book and online practice test combination. She also took a test prep workshop at her school. Her practice tests at home were getting her around a 16 on the math portion, and when she took the real test, she got an 18 in the math portion. She does not have any disabilities, but she always tests poorly. Her scores on the other sections were higher, so her combined score ended up being a 22. We were expecting a 20, so we were pleased.

What we learned -- someone can study hard and do their best, and there may be a ceiling for what they are able to do. We were not upset at her score, because we expected it and knew she worked hard for it.  But we couldn't have relied on her getting a higher score than she was able. Since you need your daughter to get a certain score, I think she needs to do ACT specific test prep, starting soon, so that she can do a lot of it. Have her do practice tests. Have her do online test prep. Enroll her in an in-person Kaplan (or similar) test prep class.

Juniors typically take the ACT, and then seniors can retake it. Since your daughter will not be in algebra 2 until her senior year, that alone may lower her score. Being in a higher math class means being more adept at the math on the test. You might plan on having her take it several times during her SENIOR year instead of her junior year, and if she can't score high enough, have a plan B for what happens next (either an extra year before college, or going to the CC first while still retaking the ACT until she gets the needed score).

7) If she feels anxiety about math and knows that she HAS to get a certain score on the ACT, but it is iffy that she can manage it..... that is a recipe for math not going well for her over the next couple of years. Doing everything possible to reduce the anxiety is important for her brain to be able to learn.

I hope you figure out a good plan.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Storygirl

[Storygirl]

Also, if she has never been tested for ADHD, I would consider that, as well. ADHD and dyslexia are often co-morbid, and ADHD can definitely contribute to problems with memory or with figuring out the best way to tackle complicated problems.

@PeterPan says that her daughter's ACT scores went WAY up once they medicated for the ADHD.

I guess with all of what I am saying, it boils down to understanding the way your daughter's brain works, so that you can optimize her ability to learn the material. I have tried with my kids to kind of push forward, because they HAVE to learn something, and it just doesn't work. They need the time that they need, and trying to do things faster than the pace that allows them to learn .... it has not worked for us.

https://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/694314-inattentive-add-non-medication-support/

Check out this thread, not because it is about ADHD, but to see the comments by @Ktgrok  and @SanDiegoMom in VA about what it can feel like to the person who is struggling with remembering things and why it has such an emotional impact with academics and just in life.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Storygirl

[EKS]

I would expect for her to need direct instruction no matter what resource you use.  However, if she is unable to do work independently that she has previously practiced with you, then she is probably not getting what she needs to from the instruction or there is a disconnect between the instruction in the text and what the student is expected to bring to the problems.  This second issue is very likely with Fred and one of many reasons I wouldn't use Fred with a child who struggles with math.

My dyslexic son did very well with Jacobs Algebra.  One great thing about Jacobs is that there are two complete problem sets, and for a student who struggles with independent practice, you can do one with her and assign the second one as independent work.

Whatever you do, I wouldn't expect her to learn independently with either a textbook or an online class.

[Storygirl]

I reread your posts and notice that she has to score a certain way on the ACT, but then you say that she will use Khan to study for the SAT. Will she take both? Might it not be better for her to just focus on studying for and taking the ACT only?