Dementia?

[MaBelle]

I don't even know what I'm asking here.  My mom is 82, and looking back on growing up I see that she was always VERY critical of everything I did.  I had to date the right people, be a cheerleader, be homecoming queen, have the right friends.   Never enough.  Always "why are you such a tomboy?"  "Why do you walk like a farmhand?" Even after I was married it continued including being degraded in front of complete strangers. (Complaining about my weight.  I weighed 120)  Like she was always embarrassed by me.   Took me years to figure this out.  FWIW the boys were never treated like this, only we three girls.  

I have to say she is very generous financially, like expensive gifts.  She has given me several antique pieces that are just beautiful.

Now, hang in here, this is rambley.  Yesterday she calls me and wants me to drive 3 hours to sister's, pick up sister and drive 5 hours to pick her up then back 5 to sister's house.  Then I can drive 3 hours home.  Then a day later 3 hours back to sister's, pick her up, 3 hours back to my house.  She visits one day.  Next day back to sister's, 3 hours, 5 more hours to take her  back, 5 more hours to sister's house and 3 more home for me.  

I don't mind doing any of this but I will not do it for a 24 hour visit.  I tell her so and the next day I am a bully who yelled at her and told her she was stupid.  I keep telling myself that she might not be around for long and I should just let it roll off.  Sometimes I think she is getting worse but then I look back and think no,  I just had no idea how she was when I was growing up.

I don't know.  We are not on good terms this morning because I called and asked her why she was saying that about me.  She denied it.  Ugh.

 

 

[MaBelle]

22 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Maybe a combination of aging and her own true personality? I hate to say this sounds NPD, but it does. Maybe it isn't, but what you describe resonates. NPD would include manipulation, deception and dishonesty, though. I agree about not driving that amount for such a short visit. My mom got very angry once when I told her I couldn't do something she asked. It turned into a meltdown on her part and my feeling like it was all my fault and feeling very guilty. You just can't say no without there being negative consequences. But the part where she says you bullied her and then didn't remember it the next day does sound, you know, different and not normal, like something else is going on. At least try not to let it dig at you, because you know you were being reasonable. If things continue like this, then you'll know something is wrong. Sorry. I know I'm not being much help.

Well, she is VERY manipulative.  She and dad are divorced and when sister and I visit she does everything she can to keep us from having any time to visit him.  She is very impressed with people who have money.  She always pays more attention to her friends in the "best" circles and is contemptuous of those who aren't as "socially acceptable."  She is  very judgmental about people.  Especially about their weight.  She is super sensitive about pictures of herself, complains when she thinks it's a bad picture but if she's all dressed up for a party she wants something on Facebook.  Once she wouldn't talk to me on FaceTime because she didn't like the way she looked at the moment.

I think she remembers saying what she did about me, I just think she was lying about it.  So, you could be right.

[gardenmom5]

as the mind goes - the ability to mask is diminished, and they become "more" what they were.  being over critical of daughters - but not sons, sounds vaguely misogynistic.  my grandmother was like that.  I understand where it came from.  one of ten girls - on a farm.  zero sons.  the middle/younger girls especially got the message boys were more desirable.  (you needed strong backs on a farm - pre-motorization.)  she had this subtle expectation that girls were trash. my brother, could do no wrong.  oh - she was the dominant one in my grandparents marriage.  grandpa was a consort. not an equal.

as for the driving around, she may have lost the perspective of time and distance.  e.g. she thinks it's 30 minutes, or 50 minutes - not hours.  I can't imagine she'd want to do that trip - in hours - either..  then again, if she was always entitled and had no problem inconveniencing people, it's only going to have gotten worse.

the remembering/lying about events to fit her own narrative - sounds narcissistic.  my grandmother did that too.   my brother's kids have called him on similar behavior.  (he argued with them, and kept insisting they were wrong.)

[MaBelle]

21 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

as the mind goes - the ability to mask is diminished, and they become "more" what they were.  being over critical of daughters - but not sons, sounds vaguely misogynistic.  my grandmother was like that.  I understand where it came from.  one of ten girls - on a farm.  zero sons.  the middle/younger girls especially got the message boys were more desirable.  (you needed strong backs on a farm - pre-motorization.)  she had this subtle expectation that girls were trash. my brother, could do no wrong.  oh - she was the dominant one in my grandparents marriage.  grandpa was a consort. not an equal.

 

OMGoodness, why have I not seen this before?  Misogynistic describes her to a T.  Critical of the girls, boys could do no wrong.  Contemptuous of her female friends and simpering to any man.  Also she has NO self worth unless she has a man in her life.  She's been married three times currently single and on the prowl at her independent living place.  And when she does have a man in her life she shoves him down our throats.  "Thank so and so for lunch, he paid.  Thank so and so for this and that, it was his idea"  Got to the point that we refused to meet her last crush, because we are so tired of her routine.

I wonder if part of it is her generation raised in the South!?

[gardenmom5]

34 minutes ago, MaBelle said:

OMGoodness, why have I not seen this before?  Misogynistic describes her to a T.  Critical of the girls, boys could do no wrong.  Contemptuous of her female friends and simpering to any man.  Also she has NO self worth unless she has a man in her life.  She's been married three times currently single and on the prowl at her independent living place.  And when she does have a man in her life she shoves him down our throats.  "Thank so and so for lunch, he paid.  Thank so and so for this and that, it was his idea"  Got to the point that we refused to meet her last crush, because we are so tired of her routine.

I wonder if part of it is her generation raised in the South!?

My grandmother was from rural Missouri - born in 1909.

Dh did notice when he was in college - how manipulative (but pretty and very charming) texas girls were.  My grandmother's sister lived in texas for many years - always wore skirt suits, dressed to the nines at all times.  we were somewhere, and there was this obese guy with a texas drawl - and when his wife (super skinny, dressed to perfection) came down to the lobby, he was really condescending - as though she were a Barbie doll all dressed up for him. (like a two-dimensional cardboard cutout).  suddenly, all the billboards we'd seen when in Dallas back in 94 (for "bimbo establishments") started to make sense.  dh commented he started to understand the manipulation - in that culture, it was the way women had power.

I don't know how many watched the original Dallas - Larry Hagman always said "JR is a pussycat compared to what really goes on in this town".  He would know.  His father was a high priced Dallas lawyer.  (he paid a hooker to sleep with him on his 18th BD.  LH paid her to tell his father she did, but not.)

[Laura Corin]

My mother has weirdly started to favour men, after decades of seriously feminist thought and political action. I can only think that she is reverting to the mindset of her youth in the 1920s and 1930s.

For example, after she fell ill and couldn't manage on her own, I took her in (after trying to find her an independent living situation that she would countenance). Sorting out her health status and psychological state whilst working full time was very, very hard and time consuming. Meanwhile, Husband sorted out her finances and one of my brothers cleared her house.

Mother decided to give monetary presents to my brother and husband after the house was sold. When Husband asked why Laura wouldn't get a present, she said that daughters were different.

ETA: Husband told her she should split his present money with me. Which she did, because 'your husband said I should'.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Laura Corin

[MaBelle]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

- in that culture, it was the way women had power.

 

Sad but true.  My mother always said when your dh tells you to do something or how to do something or whatever and you don't agree with it you just say "Yes dear" and then do whatever you damn please when he's not looking.

[StephanieZ]

Dementia can take off the filters. For sure. Even early on. 

The best thing to do is likely just be simple and firm in your responses. "I hate to disappoint you, Mom, but I can't do that much driving all at once."

Mom: BLAH BLAH BLAH

"I'm sorry to disappoint you, Mom, but I won't be able to drive 16 hours in one day."

Mom: BLAH BLAH BLAH

If you can think of a good alternative, then substitute that in there as an option, because dementia can also make it really, really hard for folks to "figure stuff out," 

A good dementia management trick is that sufferers nearly always pick the last option offered. So, if you can think of a dichotomous choice . . . and put your preference as the second option, that often works well. 

I.e., "I can't do all that driving in just a few days, Mom, but we could do the visit over a full week at the end of the month or you could ask (Sister) Jenny to do the return trip driving so you could still go this weekend."

At the end of the day, she is who she is, and she won't likely get nicer as dementia progresses. BUT, you can get a lot better in managing her and you might actually have a better relationship than before if you embrace your new role as Chief Manipulator. It's very easy to manipulate folks with dementia. It sounds awful when it's someone you revere, but it is necessary in order to gently guide them towards necessary and good choices. 
 

[MaBelle]

4 hours ago, Seasider too said:

 

Well, you just described my same-generation raised on a southern farm mother to a T. I do think a lot of the attitudes are situational (which doesn’t make them right, just easier to explain). 

My mom was raised in a small town during the depression.   The  only woman I can think of that has any real value to her is her cousin.  During WW2 a bunch of the women who were sisters lived together with their children while their dhs were off to war.  

[Katy]

5 hours ago, StephanieZ said:

At the end of the day, she is who she is, and she won't likely get nicer as dementia progresses. BUT, you can get a lot better in managing her and you might actually have a better relationship than before if you embrace your new role as Chief Manipulator. It's very easy to manipulate folks with dementia. It sounds awful when it's someone you revere, but it is necessary in order to gently guide them towards necessary and good choices. 
 

 

But if you stop thinking of it as manipulation and think of it as leadership skills it suddenly starts being very wise.

[J-rap]

As far as if it's dementia... in my experience, people's subtle personality quirks start to escalate with early dementia.  My MIL has some subtle OCD stuff all her life, which she kept at bay.  Beginning in her late 80's, they started to take control, and a few years later it was pretty clear that dementia had settled in.

[Jaybee]

It always makes me a little sad to hear people say that older people are just showing who they really were all along. Because dementia is really a type of brain damage, right? And how do you know for sure that their brain has not begun to deteriorate? I had an aunt who gradually started behaving in ways that raised a lot of eyebrows when she was at an age you wouldn't suspect Alzheimers (sp?). So people would gossip about her and how selfish or mean she was. Later, she became very bad and was diagnosed with Alzheimers, and ended up dying of it. At that point, her children were able to look back and see the development and patterns of it, but at first, they just thought she was being mean. There was also a lady I knew growing up who became "boy-crazy" (for lack of a better term), which caused trouble at the care facilities where they tried to get her the care she needed. I totally believe it was due to changes in her brain, not due to the fact that all of a sudden she let everybody know what she was really like. Just something to keep in mind as a possibility.

ETA: Well, of course brains are beginning to deteriorate as we age, but I meant in a more dementia kind of way.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Jaybee

[Laura Corin]

6 hours ago, Jaybee said:

It always makes me a little sad to hear people say that older people are just showing who they really were all along. Because dementia is really a type of brain damage, right? And how do you know for sure that their brain has not begun to deteriorate? I had an aunt who gradually started behaving in ways that raised a lot of eyebrows when she was at an age you wouldn't suspect Alzheimers (sp?). So people would gossip about her and how selfish or mean she was. Later, she became very bad and was diagnosed with Alzheimers, and ended up dying of it. At that point, her children were able to look back and see the development and patterns of it, but at first, they just thought she was being mean. There was also a lady I knew growing up who became "boy-crazy" (for lack of a better term), which caused trouble at the care facilities where they tried to get her the care she needed. I totally believe it was due to changes in her brain, not due to the fact that all of a sudden she let everybody know what she was really like. Just something to keep in mind as a possibility.

ETA: Well, of course brains are beginning to deteriorate as we age, but I meant in a more dementia kind of way.

The thing is, either could be happening. Is the person behaving in a way consistent with personality but more so?  Or is there a personality change?

Once I got to know my mum as an adult (I lived overseas for over twenty years) I started to understand her personality, stretching back into her youth. In the past few years, those personality traits have become entrenched, and I have spent much more time with her, because she is 95 and frail.  She is suffering from the normal memory loss of aging, but not dementia.

Very different from a change of personality due to dementia.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Laura Corin