Flat rate group field trip questions

[HS Mom in NC]

How would you present this field trip to a teen homeschool group? 

The Lemur Center has a private tour option for a flat $125 fee for up to 18 people. https://lemur.duke.edu/visit/tours/ course, it would have to be scheduled in advance.  The website says you have to schedule about 2 weeks in advance, but it can vary.

I’d like to present this to my county’s teen group FB page.  We’re new to the group and have only been to 1 bowling event, but we enjoyed the people there and lemurs outdoors in nature would be a lovely group event.

I want to collect money up front and don’t want to do refunds due to the flat rate.
$125/18 people =$7 per person is the least expensive option and about half the general admission rate for a public tour. But, of course, there’s no guarantee we’ll get 18 people going, so people who are interested would not know the actual per person price until everyone was signed up.

Has anyone dealt with this flat rate issue before?  How did you present it to people so you got serious responses and collected funds before scheduling and still find a date that works for people?  Is it just too unrealistic to expect that and should we just go with a public tour and get added in to whoever else shows up for the public tour?
 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[vonfirmath]

I'd set up a minimum # of people that need to sign up before you'll schedule the trip and then divide the flat fee by that # of people. If you get more, you could donate to the Center.

 

[Jackie]

Ugh, I’ve only organized one flat rate field trip and it was annoying. We had people who “committed” but then never paid. Most people didn’t want to commit until they knew the final numbers, and therefore the price, and didn’t understand that if they didn’t commit, they wouldn’t be part of the final numbers. 

If I were to do one again, I would set a minimum number of people, divide out the rate, and collect money with a firm due date. Then I could refund everyone if the numbers weren’t met. I would stop by the bank on the way to the event and take out the refund amounts for overpayment in exact change and deal with them at the event itself.

[Lori D.]

Another vote for you picking the date 6 weeks in advance, setting a minimum amount of participants, and a non-refundable payment in advance. (I mean, not refundable if they sign up then cancel, or sign up and don't show up. Yes, everyone is refunded and the trip is cancelled if the minimum of 12 people is not reached during the sign up period.)

(ETA: I have reached the stage in life where I don't have time for wafflers. Please don't tell me you "want" to sign up — unless you have money in your hand. "Committing" to attend an event means you have *paid* for the event. Your sign up confirmation is the receipt I give you once you put your money in the envelope for that event.)

And I would NOT worry about telling people it is a flat rate and that their cost might go down if more people come (unless these are the type of people who, knowing that, would eagerly help fill the field trip up to 18 people to get the per-person cost down). Surprising people with an unexpected refund always makes them happy. As opposed to making people very unhappy when you have to cancel because those who really wanted to go get hosed by those who hold out to the last minute because they are too cheap to commit unless they can squeeze every last dime out of it. JMO.

I'd set the minimum at 12 people, which is $10.50/person (rounded from the actual $10.42 per person cost). I would set the deadline for signing up/paying for 1 week prior to the event (unless the venue requires more advance notice for cancellation, in case you don't meet your minimum of 12 people). If more than 12 people sign up, continue to have them pay at the $10.50/person rate, and on the day of the event, you can pay the venue their $125, and if the difference between what was paid ($10.50/person spread over 12 people) and how many actually attend ($125 spread over X people) is more than $1/person (less than $1 is NOT worth the headache of figuring it out and getting coinage, IMO), you could refund that $1-3/person to each attendee.

Or, say nothing and donate the extra to the venue.

Or, say nothing and consider the extra as your payment for going through the headache and effort to arrange and administrate the event.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Lori D.

[mom2att]

What Lori D. said is exactly how I would handle it. I read the post while I was out and was going to come home and comment with a very similar response, but since she already said it, I'll just go with "I agree with Lori D."

[HS Mom in NC]

Thank you for the feedback!  It's very helpful.

[Ellie]

3 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

How would you present this field trip to a teen homeschool group? 

The Lemur Center has a private tour option for a flat $125 fee for up to 18 people. https://lemur.duke.edu/visit/tours/ course, it would have to be scheduled in advance.  The website says you have to schedule about 2 weeks in advance, but it can vary.

I’d like to present this to my county’s teen group FB page.  We’re new to the group and have only been to 1 bowling event, but we enjoyed the people there and lemurs outdoors in nature would be a lovely group event.

I want to collect money up front and don’t want to do refunds due to the flat rate.
$125/18 people =$7 per person is the least expensive option and about half the general admission rate for a public tour. But, of course, there’s no guarantee we’ll get 18 people going, so people who are interested would not know the actual per person price until everyone was signed up.

Has anyone dealt with this flat rate issue before?  How did you present it to people so you got serious responses and collected funds before scheduling and still find a date that works for people?  Is it just too unrealistic to expect that and should we just go with a public tour and get added in to whoever else shows up for the public tour?
 

Yes, I've done things like this before. You want to keep it simple, for yourself as well as for others.

Write up a good description of the event, including driving directions (yes, even though most people have GPS and whatnot), parking arrangements, what age the activity is most appropriate for, can younger children attend, should people pack lunches, etc. Include that information with the sign-up (email, FB, however y'all do that). IOW, tell people everything they might need to know, to help them decide if they can do it.

Charge $10 per person. It's a nice round number, and the extra will pay for your own dc to go. There's nothing wrong with that. :-) Or charge $8, if it makes you feel better. People will know what it costs up front.

Ask the Center if it has a deadline for when you can cancel without penalty. Then. schedule the date for, oh, a month in the future, and set a deadline of a week before any penalty deadline. If you don't get enough sign-ups, you can cancel, and then people get refunds.

That deadline is the day that you have to have all monies in hand. Or if y'all do Paypal, that's the date by when people have to pay, and you take down Paypal the day after. You don't want phone calls or emails or anything. You just want to see their money.

On the day of the event, print out the list of everyone who has paid.

You don't want to do that whole thing where you add up everyone and divide by this and charge that. It's way too messy. BTDT. Just charge $8 and call it good.

[Bambam]

I did a flat fee field trip once. I charged a little extra over the minimum to cover my trouble of setting it all up. I made people pay in advance and gave them a due date. If they didn't pay, they were dropped. I explained, "No refunds" - if they couldn't make it, tough. I was on the hook for the full amount regardless.  They could find someone else to take their spot and do whatever financial stuff they wanted to do, I didn't care, but they had to let me know the new names.

I also said that  you had to be on time. This was an educational boat trip. I said that the boat left the dock at this time, and if you didn't make it, too bad. Because I've dealt with homeschoolers before, and many have the unfortunate habit of showing up anywhere from 10 -60 minutes late. For the FIRST time ever, everyone else was there when we got there 20 minutes early. 

[Ellie]

On 8/20/2018 at 1:47 PM, Jackie said:

Ugh, I’ve only organized one flat rate field trip and it was annoying. We had people who “committed” but then never paid. Most people didn’t want to commit until they knew the final numbers, and therefore the price, and didn’t understand that if they didn’t commit, they wouldn’t be part of the final numbers. 

If I were to do one again, I would set a minimum number of people, divide out the rate, and collect money with a firm due date. Then I could refund everyone if the numbers weren’t met. I would stop by the bank on the way to the event and take out the refund amounts for overpayment in exact change and deal with them at the event itself.

I learned the hard way to have people pay in advance. And I always charge a flat rate; that is, I don't ever do that whole add up every attendee divide by a magic number then multiply by whatever. no. Just...no. I once went to a Monterey Bay Aquarium field trip where the organizer did that...it was awful. The docent thought it was awful. I'm surprised homeschoolers were ever allowed to come back. o_0

Edited August 27, 2018 by Ellie

[RoundAbout]

Totally agree with the idea of a flat fee, paid in advance, no refunds. We used to run group campouts this way, charged $X per/person and any extra went to firewood and to cover part of our cost in setting it up. For your situation $10 sounds perfect. 

[Lori D.]

 

A flat rate of $10 is great. BUT... because the field trip as a whole has a required group rate of $125 (whether the group is 1 person or the maximum of 18 people), that means the OP has to sign up a minimum of 13 people (13x$10 = $130) to meet that $125 amount, or will have to pay the difference out of her own pocket if fewer than 13 sign up -- or, have to cancel and refund everyone who did sign up and pay in advance if she doesn't want to have to pay the difference or ask those who signed up and pay to all kick in to cover the difference.

Organizing group field trips always has complications of some kind -- not having enough people sign up and having to cancel/refund is just a different kind of complication to have to deal with. ? 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Lori D.

[Garga]

I haven’t coordinated trips, but I’ve gone on them.  My homeschool group almost always includes verbiage that reads, “You must arrive 10 minutes early.”  Writing it out like that seems to work well to prompt people to get there on time, or earlier.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Garga

[Ellie]

3 hours ago, Lori D. said:

 

A flat rate of $10 is great. BUT... because the field trip as a whole has a required group rate of $125 (whether the group is 1 person or the maximum of 18 people), that means the OP has to sign up a minimum of 13 people (13x$10 = $130) to meet that $125 amount, or will have to pay the difference out of her own pocket if fewer than 13 sign up -- or, have to cancel and refund everyone who did sign up and pay in advance if she doesn't want to have to pay the difference or ask those who signed up and pay to all kick in to cover the difference.

Organizing group field trips always has complications of some kind -- not having enough people sign up and having to cancel/refund is just a different kind of complication to have to deal with. ? 

That is why I recommend having a deadline far enough in advance that it is possible to cancel the field trip with no penalties if enough people don't sign up (some places charge a cancellation fee) (I don't know how they collect that ??), and to charge that $10.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Ellie

[katilac]

19 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Organizing group field trips always has complications of some kind -- not having enough people sign up and having to cancel/refund is just a different kind of complication to have to deal with. ? 

1

 

ime, it is a much MUCH easier complication than collecting money at the last minute or dealing with flakes. For one thing, I always state times/places convenient for ME to offer the refunds. Lots of people do Paypal or such, which makes it super easy. 

19 hours ago, Garga said:

I haven’t coordinated trips, but I’ve gone on them.  My homeschool group almost always includes verbiage that reads, “You must arrive 10 minutes early.”  Writing it out like that seems to work well to prompt people to get there on time, or earlier.

 

Agree, but I would say 15 minutes early. I would also say that no one will be waiting for you at the door if you are late, you will have to wait for both a volunteer and staff member to be able to assist you - if that's even a choice. In my experience, most places have been obliging about letting the occasional late-comer join the group, but if that's absolutely not a choice, you need to say that the venue does not accommodate late arrivals and being late forfeits your ticket. 

[Lori D.]

7 minutes ago, katilac said:

ime, it is a much MUCH easier complication than collecting money at the last minute or dealing with flakes. For one thing, I always state times/places convenient for ME to offer the refunds. Lots of people do Paypal or such, which makes it super easy. 

Totally agree! That's why I included collecting of money as part of sign up in my suggestion up-thread. No way I collected at the time of the field trip -- that was just begging for trouble.

7 minutes ago, katilac said:

Agree, but I would say 15 minutes early. I would also say that no one will be waiting for you at the door if you are late, you will have to wait for both a volunteer and staff member to be able to assist you - if that's even a choice. In my experience, most places have been obliging about letting the occasional late-comer join the group, but if that's absolutely not a choice, you need to say that the venue does not accommodate late arrivals and being late forfeits your ticket. 

For sure -- adjust details as for what works best for each homeschool group, as level of "flakiness" varies from group to group. (:D

Ten minutes worked for the group of homeschoolers I was organizing for field trips, mostly because it was a small group, and it was for students age 12+ and adults -- no young children, as there were other special field trips organized for younger ages by a different coordinator.

Also, everyone knew that we left without them if they were not there before the stated start time. ; )

Edited August 28, 2018 by Lori D.