Tired, pain after antibiotics? Maybe a UTI?

[PeterPan]

I've been off the antibiotic 2 months for the bronchitis with coughing up blood that I had in May. I had been slowly, very slowly, improving. I've had dizziness for a month now (consistent) when I lie down and when I stand up (occasional). For the last week or two I've had odd pelvic pain that I thought was maybe some kind of constipation or something because I mainly notice it in the morning. It's now increasing somewhat, because I'm noticing it during the day as a feeling of discomfort and pain. However, pain on me is not registered correctly and I consistently mis-recognize signals or am hypo-responsive. I've seen the chiro twice now for the dizziness and he's saying he doesn't think it's my neck. 

The worst symptom is the fatigue. My natural state is kind of ADHD (kind of nothing), and I'm going backward. I had to resume our long therapy trips (driving 2+ hours each way weekly), and that started my downhill decline. We're losing our speech therapist in September, so ideally I would stick it out. I'm checking right now to see if I have a fever. Urine seems normal, not cloudy or any strong color. Bowels are loose and a green color, which I attributed to the peaches we've been eating. Does that mean it's c-diff? UTI? Something else?

When I say I'm tired, I'm talking like I could spend all day in bed tired. I was beyond that so either I'm regressing with the long drives or something is wrong. It's the pelvic stuff I don't know about. Maybe it's a nothing? 

I just actually have to take care of myself, because no one else does it for me. I did pick up intake papers for a new family practice GP in town. Until that is lined up, I'm relegated to Urgent Care. 

If it's some c-diff, then I would take tons of Florastor, yes? But if it's a UTI (which I've also never had), then I would do cranberry or d-mannose, yes? And would the cranberry kill the Florastor? See why I was confused? LOL And it really could be I just need to go to bed. But every time I go to bed saying I'm tired, I wake up with a bad fever and going on an antibiotic. So just the fact that I'm contemplating going to bed early is a signal to me that it's more than normal fatigue. 

I'm waiting for the thermometer here. Trying to do the math here and I'm a little slow. I drove really slowly today too. That's a total symptom on me. I never drive slowly unless something is wrong, lol. I was 98.1 armpit a couple days ago, but I thought maybe that was hormones. I haven't ovulated in years to my knowledge, and I don't track, but it is that point in my cycle where temps would be up slightly. Since my thyroid last time we tested was slightly low, I would expect my temp to be maybe 1/2-1 degree lower than normal, meaning 97.0-97.4 would probably be my normal for armpit. Ok, it's 98.5 now and holding. That's probably a 1 degree fever for me, and that's how I feel, slightly warm. 

And no, there is zilcho reason to think I'm pregnant. Don't laugh, don't try, don't think it.

Any ideas here? I need to make a safe plan that involves me not dying. Something that works. I can go to the store and get d-mannose tomorrow. I can drive cranberry juice tonight. I can check extra-strength Florastor tonight. I don't know. Oh, I was on antibiotics 3 or 4 times this winter. I've actually lost track it happened so much. I think my mind is going fuzzy or tired or something, because I seriously don't remember. Means if I can beat this without antibiotics that would be the much preferred route. I think whatever I do I should probably continue to monitor my temps. Oxygen levels are good at 98. Just this odd pelvic pain (mild but definite), mild fever, and significant fatigue.

See anything there?

[PeterPan]

Adding, when I had CFS and MCS years ago I did *not* have dizziness as part of the adrenal fatigue. I know that happens, and my mom now has vertigo. I'm just saying I haven't really bought that as an explanation. I could be wrong. But yea, the chiro just was really not wanting to say my neck was the cause. And yes, I'm fatiguing with exertion. I tried going back to the gym last week and it left me more tired.

Sigh. I don't know, lol. That's why I thought I'd just put it out there and see what people think.

[4everHis]

No idea, though my mom, after multiple antibiotics for uti's, had many of your symptoms. Are you hydrated? Cut sugar & caffeine. I personally would be eating minced garlic  (my go to in any circumstance that might be infection). I hope if someone else sees something different they'll jump in. Sorry you're having these symptoms. 

[BeachGal]

Four rounds of antibiotic in one year is very hard on your microbiota. It takes several months for your microbiota to normalize after one round of antibiotics. Taking excellent probiotics can reduce that time but it would be best to be taking them at proper times while also taking antibiotics so as to preserve strains of beneficial bacteria. Then you’d want to continue the probiotic for a few months after. VSL#3 and Visbiome are two used often in research.

Adding the probiotic is the first step but the second is to feed the beneficial bacteria with a wide variety of mostly vegetable fiber. They will not flourish without the fiber. Ghee is a good source of butyrate and that could also help you. A good quality fish oil also increases beneficial bacteria. Walnuts might also help. Avoid sugar, artificial sugar and simple starches.

Fasting from 5 pm (or earlier) until the next morning can also increase beneficial bacteria.

Fatigue can occur after taking certain antibiotics. I would guess it has to do with the synthesis of b vitamins. The dizziness could be low b12. Go to bed early and sleep/nap when you can. You need some serious self care until you feel better.

Do you monitor your vitamin D levels? I used to get lung infections when mine were low.

 

[PeterPan]

Oh wow, I didn't realize b12 low could cause dizziness, hmm. I hadn't liked the b complex I was taking, so I just went back to one that I used to take long ago. I was off for quite a while and haven't gotten in a good routine with it. I also got back my genetics finally (from Genes4Good) and think I might have some MTHFR stuff. So if I was genetically bent to go low and wasn't on it, then yeah it makes sense it would have gone low. I can work on that.

Yup, on D. I take 10k IU a day. No, haven't done bloodwork. I do have some asthma, but I think it was extreme stress this year that got me. My worst cases have been clearly correlated to very high stress.

Yeah, I did yogurt and probiotics after this round. It's been especially rough for some reason. I'm just wondering if it's the b vitamins, like you're saying. I'll run the genes through the Yasko engine and see. I hadn't done that. It took so long to get back results and we made assumptions.

Well I've been guzzling good cranberry juice diluted with water, and I'm feeling a fuzz better. I went ahead and ordered some D-Mannose. I've never done that. 

[Terabith]

I doubt it's c-diff.  That has an odor that is pretty distinct.  

Even taking 10,000 units of D a day, my levels weren't budging until I started taking it with K2.  My levels shot up to 60 something (from like....8?  13?).  And now I just take 2,000 of D with the K2.  Makes a tremendous difference.  I'd say continue the probiotics and add some B12, but seriously look at the D.  I was taking really good quality D, but I needed that K2 with it to dent it.  

It can also just take forever to recover from bronchitis stuff.

[KidsHappen]

What is K2?

[Terabith]

I'm actually not super clear on what K2 is or does.  I just know it makes D absorb so much better.  My chiropractor told me that.  Here's what google says:  https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-k2

[Terabith]

We've definitely had greenish poop with large quantities of certain fruits here.  I know blueberries, but I think nectarines, too.  Not all the time, but if we were eating a lot....  I remember specifically noticing when I was changing diapers because I started thinking through what they had eaten because it was such an odd color.

[catz]

I would definitely try to cut sugar and white flour and add probiotics.  I like small amounts of ground flax as a fiber (start small - like a tsp and work up to 1-2 TBSP).  You could do smoothies with yogurt, berries, greens, a little flax once a day.  If you're having specific symptoms or fever with pelvic pain be seen of course.  Blood work is not a bad idea.

 I was diagnosed with IBS after a long run of abx (lots of tests) and really it got much better holistically over time after making a decision to work on it.   I definitely had other symptoms during that time - green poop, fatigue, even random aches and pains, depression/anxiety.  I really do think if the bowel is not moving well, it can cause weird symptoms.  I still have to watch my diet and I have taken probiotics daily for years.  

[PeterPan]

11 hours ago, Terabith said:

I doubt it's c-diff.  That has an odor that is pretty distinct.  

Even taking 10,000 units of D a day, my levels weren't budging until I started taking it with K2.  My levels shot up to 60 something (from like....8?  13?).  And now I just take 2,000 of D with the K2.  Makes a tremendous difference.  I'd say continue the probiotics and add some B12, but seriously look at the D.  I was taking really good quality D, but I needed that K2 with it to dent it.  

It can also just take forever to recover from bronchitis stuff.

How much K2 are you taking? I'm taking it and I have my ds taking it. With him, I see sensory improvements, like he's easier to touch. It's REALLY noticeable on him. 200mcg a day is what we're both taking, which obviously isn't proportional for me. Maybe what I'd do is see if our K2 dose is on track and then do bloodwork. The vitamin D is so helpful in stabilizing methyl levels and behavior, I would never take him off and wasn't going to wait around for labs. But you're right, for me, I don't know if the 10k is good or excessive or anything. 

Well I was playing around with some genetics stuff this morning, and my memory is better. (I took that better B yesterday.) And the dizziness was chilled last night too. I think y'all might be right that the low bs were causing the dizziness and mental stuff. One of the genes I'm homozygous defective for is connected to b12 levels. I only just got those results this week and hadn't had a chance to dig in.

I'm going to do the cranberry juice today and see what happens. I think maybe I've got a couple layers of things. As long as I'm not running a significant fever (meaning it had gone into my kidneys), I'm ok to take a day or two here and try to approach it that way, rather than going to a doc, I think. I hope. I really don't know. 

9 hours ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Are you having any trouble peeing?  Burning, pain, urgency in your bladder or urethra?   They have test strips now at Walgreens, CVS, etc to test at home.  Pelvic pain can signal a UTI, but usually you feel it when you pee (although, obviously, everyone can experience it differently).   You mentioned taking probiotics with your antibiotics, but I’d up whatever you were taking.  I’ve read you can’t take too many, but that could be wrong.  I’d still up my intake.   Is your middle back hurting any?  If it does, that could signal a kidney infection, which doesn’t always cause pain while peeing.   D-mannose and cranberry juice are what I’d recommend.  If you do suspect a UTI, you may very well need another round of antibiotics.  For some people, the D Mannose will flush out a UTI, but I’ve never been that lucky.   I hope you are feeling better quickly! 

Warning... this is gross....   agreeing with terabith about the c-diff.  It has a very distinct odor and seems to float like mud on the water.  It’s gross. 

I thought I read something about those test strips last night, so maybe I can look for that if I go out. (If I go out meaning my energy is dragging to get out, otherwise I'd just do it.) I should probably stop and pick up the other kind of probiotics too. They have one that has more of the UTI type bugs instead of the regular bugs. I'll try. Yeah, the D-Mannose comes tomorrow, so I guess we'll see. 

I'm really not sure on the timing of probiotics and the cranberry juice. Do you think the cranberry juice will kill the probiotics or florastor?

Nope, no pain while peeing. No, I don't think I have pain in my middle back. My *lower* back is uncomfortable, but my middle back is ok afasik. 

It may be that it's a UTI and kind of lagging in not all the way to terrible land so I'm having discomfort but not going all the way to burning, etc. 

Bowels are more formed today, btw, so I'm thinking my system likes the cranberry juice. It's a good one (Knudson or something, I don't know) with no sugary junk, and I'm diluting it with water to give my system a good flush. It's usually what I do when I want to work on my weight, water, etc. I just hadn't been doing it since this last round of antibiotics.

[Terabith]

80 mcg.  I initially blew my chiropractor off when he said I wasn’t absorbing the D.  I was spending a fortune on good quality stuff.  But no matter how much I took, my numbers weren’t budging.  Well, I mean, they went from like 8-17 or something.  But they couldn’t get to therapeutic ranges.  And I didn’t feel better.  But within weeks of adding the K2, I tested again and was at 60 something.  And I stopped getting sick all the time.  My genetics say I have a gene for congenitally low D, and my kids’ D levels were super low, so I feel like this was a real achievement.  

B vitamins make a huge difference for my husband.  I take them but don’t feel different on them, but it’s like night and day for him.  He can actually get kinda high from extra doses.  

[Terabith]

He’s weird though.  Not only does he have the ADHD caffeine flip, but in college when he wanted to stay up all night, he’d drink chamomile tea.  He can’t do it anymore though.  Makes him shake like crazy.  

[Terabith]

Knudsen’s is great.  Kudos to you for drinking it.  I can’t handle it straight.  If you get a fever, definitely go in, because kidney infections can be nasty.  Or significant pain. But in absence of fever or pain, you’re probably okay to try to self treat for a few days.  How is your lung function?  Bronchitis stuff can just linger on the energy for a long time.  

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

80 mcg.  I initially blew my chiropractor off when he said I wasn’t absorbing the D.  I was spending a fortune on good quality stuff.  But no matter how much I took, my numbers weren’t budging.  Well, I mean, they went from like 8-17 or something.  But they couldn’t get to therapeutic ranges.  And I didn’t feel better.  But within weeks of adding the K2, I tested again and was at 60 something.  And I stopped getting sick all the time.  My genetics say I have a gene for congenitally low D, and my kids’ D levels were super low, so I feel like this was a real achievement.  

B vitamins make a huge difference for my husband.  I take them but don’t feel different on them, but it’s like night and day for him.  He can actually get kinda high from extra doses.  

Interesting! Sounds like I need to get around to testing our D! We really could be taking more than we need. I tried dropping ds' k2 to 100mcg and I could tell the difference in how easy he was to touch. To be proportional, I would need to take 400-600mcg a day, which I was really reluctant to do without evidence.

Well I went to the store and stocked up on more yogurt and probiotics. I had stopped my daily dosing of yogurt and that's when this pain started. I was eating 3-4 cups of yogurt a day after the antibiotics. So I'm going back to eating the yogurt and I got a couple probiotics that say they hit women's stuff. And I got more cranberry juice. Yeah, Knudsons or Lakewood straight kinda curls your hair, lol. I dilute it with a bunch of water, or sometimes I add pomegranate juice or a dab of apple juice. The more dilute it is, the more tolerable it is. 

My pain is down 50% at least today, so I think the aggressive cranberry juice regimen has been pushing it. Tonight I'm doing d-mannose. I can't believe I was so dumb, going OFF all the good stuff I had been taking to restore my gut. I really don't know what I was thinking. While I was on the yogurt, etc., I had been slowly recovering. I pulled back, and boom down to total slug mode. No fever today btw, so I really do think what feels like improvement is improvement. I'll take my temps and see, but I can tell my temps are back down. Yup, 97.7 armpit, which is smack on 98.6. So if my fevers were to go up or the pain to increase, I'd go in. For now I'll watch it and see if I can eat it the rest of the way. That would be ideal.

My lungs were a little crunchy this morning, but I think I need to sweep (run the roomba). In general, they've been fine. I've been getting out of breath more easily, but that was from the bronchitis and has been slow to improve. I've gained some weight because I wasn't exercising at my normal rate since January. (taking ds to so many things, wasn't getting in) So that weight gain might be factoring in too with the stairs stuff. As long as my breathing overall is good and my oxygen is good, my plan is to get well enough to get back in to the gym, get the weight off again, and then see where I'm at. I have this suspicion my lungs may not be the same after all this, sigh. We'll see. I'm just rolling with it. 

I definitely think I was starting to go bacterial and get bad. I'm still not energetic, but I'm not having that "you're losing, you're going to go to bed and die" kind of feeling that I was having yesterday. Now I just need to dig out of this chain of low energy, sigh, and recover. In reality, I need to stop the long drives. I just hate to because he will literally lose access to the only speech therapy that has helped him come September. But it's definitely not good for me, that's obvious.

[PeterPan]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

He’s weird though.  Not only does he have the ADHD caffeine flip, but in college when he wanted to stay up all night, he’d drink chamomile tea.  He can’t do it anymore though.  Makes him shake like crazy.  

Yeah, I don't have the caffeine flip. My dd does, but I don't think I do. If I don't drink it much, then when I have it I'm REALLY hyper and buzzed and amped. Usually lasts a long time on me too, about 24 hours, then I CRASH.

[BeachGal]

On 7/28/2018 at 7:49 PM, PeterPan said:

Interesting! Sounds like I need to get around to testing our D! We really could be taking more than we need. I tried dropping ds' k2 to 100mcg and I could tell the difference in how easy he was to touch. To be proportional, I would need to take 400-600mcg a day, which I was really reluctant to do without evidence.

 

If you tend to get lung infections, getting your vitamin d into a healthier range is a very good idea. It's easy to test. You can even do it yourself.

[Angie in VA]

1 hour ago, BeachGal said:

 

If you tend to get lung infections, getting your vitamin d into a healthier range is a very good idea. It's easy to test. You can even do it yourself.

 

Tell me more. Please?

[ktgrok]

Sounds like you aren't getting enough oxygen, either from anemia or poor lung function. You need to go to the doctor ASAP. How long have you been dizzy for?

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ktgrok

[PeterPan]

9 hours ago, BeachGal said:

 

If you tend to get lung infections, getting your vitamin d into a healthier range is a very good idea. It's easy to test. You can even do it yourself.

How do you do that??

8 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Sounds like you aren't getting enough oxygen, either from anemia or poor lung function. You need to go to the doctor ASAP. How long have you been dizzy for?

Nope, I have a pulse oximeter and have checked it. There, just checked it again, 97%. Fine. I feel better when it's 99%, but I'm ok at 97-98. I really think the person suggesting the B12 as the cause is right. I had gone off my b complex (weird story, tried a cheaper one, it didn't make me feel well, I stopped taking it, turns out I have an MTHFR mutation, oops) and that's how it got low. I think that's why the dizziness was sporadic, because I was taking the new b-complex (one I had previously tolerated, food sourced, lower doses, blah blah) some days and not others. Sometimes I'd take it later in the day and then not be dizzy that night. I wasn't noticing the pattern. So for now, I've decided to up the dose and take it diligently and see what happens. I think that's a good point that it could be something else, but I'm gonna play with this B stuff first and see if that nips it. And I've never had anemia, not during my pregnancies, nothing. I usually have really good iron for some reason in fact, don't know why. Oh and the dizziness was only upon lying down and upon standing up. Well I did get a fuzz dizzy in ds' single line swing. That was weird. But just to be hanging out and go oh my I'm dizzy, no that's not been happening. That's why the chiro suggested adrenals, but I never had dizziness as a symptom even when I had really horrible health and CFS/MCS, so I wasn't buying that as an explanation. I'm *hoping* the B vits turn out to be it.

[ktgrok]

 

 

 

if it is with changing position could be an inner ear thing as well - any sinus issues?. Also, low b12 can cause anemia.

[PeterPan]

Probably getting that covered, because the b vitamin has a bunch of other stuff too (iron, vitamin A, blah blah). It's kind of an energy multi I guess. We'll see. The dizziness was pretty good when I laid down for a bit this afternoon. I'm just watching it. The pain seems mostly gone too. I'm still taking d-mannose and cranberry juice for good measure.

[BeachGal]

On 7/30/2018 at 4:57 PM, Angie in VA said:

 

Tell me more. Please?

 

You can order a home testing kit. One source is Grassroots Health. You prick your finger and put a drop of blood on a card and send it to their lab. Results are emailed to you in about 2 weeks or so. Everything you need is included in the kit. Be sure to read instructions thoroughly and maybe watch a short video showing how to do it to get best results. They also sell a test that will analyze your omega 3 index, which is good to know.

Depending where you live, Walk-in Labs will do these tests as well. Can’t do them yourself in some states, though.