2 years of Algebra 1 or give me your best ideas for my struggling DD

[cjzimmer1]

DD (14) has always struggled with math.  And I'm not the best teacher for her because math has always been easy for me and its perfectly logical.  I struggle getting concepts across to her because what is obvious to me is not obvious to her and I don't know how to break it down anymore so that it becomes obvious for her.

 

So despite my own feelings on the book, we switched to Saxon.  She has done better with this than other programs.   She has completed 7/6, 8/7, and this year is doing Algebra through Virtual Homeschool Group (the at your own pace version).  She likes it because she can keep trying different problems over and over until she gets them right and retake tests when she bombs them (which is most of the time).  She also likes the instant grading (because I pretty much suck at grading in a timely manner).  But I'm not really sure how much she is grasping and retaining.  

 

Rather than moving her ahead to Geometry, I was thinking of having her repeat Algebra just to make sure she has a good grasp/foundation.  But I have some questions

 

1)  How do you put it on the transcript that you spent two years on a subject that is traditionally taught in one

2) What curriculum would be a good followup (would especially love something online so she could have a self grading option)

 

Would appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or BTDT stories with what worked.

[Lori D.]

Alas, no magic bullet program as to what will best "click" for any student, and sorry your DD has struggled.

 

DS#2 was our math struggler. We took 1.5 years to do Algebra 1 -- first year (9th grade) with Jacobs, then the 1st semester (10th grade) doing all of MUS Algebra 1 at a quick review pace. I just counted it as 1.0 credit = Algebra 1. (Just a heads up: Alg. 2 is even tougher, and it took us another 1.5 years to do MUS Algebra 2 -- repeating many lessons 2-3 times, and even sometimes 4-5 times.)

 

If we had needed a full 2 years for Algebra 1, I would have probably labeled it something like this on the transcript:

9th grade: 1.0 credit = Algebra 1a

10th grade: 1.0 credit = Algebra 1b

 

The good news is that students who struggle really hard with Algebra and abstract math topics very often find Geometry a snap because it is so visual-spatial and tangible, and if you go with a "light" Geometry without much in the way of proofs (such as MUS or the Keys to Geometry), your DD will likely fly through it and grasp it easily, leaving you time to do an Algebra 1 review all next year. (For example, our DS knocked out MUS Geometry is a little LESS than 1 semester, so I was able to throw a little Geometry proofs at him from Jacobs Geometry, since we had that sitting around from older DS. ;) Geometry was SO much easier than Algebra 1 & 2 for very visual-spatial DS#2!)

 

As for what to use for "re-doing" Algebra 1 -- or reviewing -- I'd suggest coming at it from a different perspective, to help you really see what she's retaining/not retaining from Saxon, and at the same time, let you see if something else might "click" a little better for her. Perhaps one of these ideas would work -- all of these are programs that someone with a struggling math student has posted good results with it: 

- Key to Algebra (which lets you take as long/short of time as desired on a topic)

- Math-U-See Algebra 1

- Kinetic Books: Algebra 1

- Math Relief --  Cathy Duffy review

- My Homeschool Math Class -- online classes taught by WTMer Jann in TX! -- lots of tutoring help for students -- and year-round "boot camp" classes available

 

 

Kudos to your DD for persevering with a subject that is tough for her! BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Lori D.

[Tsuga]

Lots of people take remedial math or tutoring after school prior to taking the next level. It's the dirty little secret of the super-successful in competitive schools.

 

I would just list the first one and count the second as preparatory tutoring. Good luck to your daughter. Algebra is something new and not easy to wrap your head around the first time for many, many people and she's not alone.

[RootAnn]

Aleks https://www.aleks.com

Is a paid program and good for finding holes. Not a full program, but would provide that immediate feedback for a second pass.

[Zoo Keeper]

My son will have Algebra 1A  and 1B, each worth a credit.  He *has* put in the hours to earn it, just did not get to the depth needed during 1A for me to say it was enough coverage of standard algebra topics.

 

Honestly, he will probably need summer school to finish his 1B credit.   He's also doing Saxon right now and it is both good (repetition!) and bad for him.  Sometimes the explanations seem very convoluted.  I scrounge around my Algebra stash until I find an explanation that clicks, and then he does the Saxon lesson.  ;)  I have an embarrassing amount of Algebra books.  (   :leaving:    but I have six kids, who knows who will need what books.... teacher training, right ?....)

 

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Zoo Keeper

[cjzimmer1]

Alas, no magic bullet program as to what will best "click" for any student, and sorry your DD has struggled.

 

DS#2 was our math struggler. We took 1.5 years to do Algebra 1 -- first year (9th grade) with Jacobs, then the 1st semester (10th grade) doing all of MUS Algebra 1 at a quick review pace. I just counted it as 1.0 credit = Algebra 1. (Just a heads up: Alg. 2 is even tougher, and it took us another 1.5 years to do MUS Algebra 2 -- repeating many lessons 2-3 times, and even sometimes 4-5 times.)

 

If we had needed a full 2 years for Algebra 1, I would have probably labeled it something like this on the transcript:

9th grade: 1.0 credit = Algebra 1a

10th grade: 1.0 credit = Algebra 1b

 

The good news is that students who struggle really hard with Algebra and abstract math topics very often find Geometry a snap because it is so visual-spatial and tangible, and if you go with a "light" Geometry without much in the way of proofs (such as MUS or the Keys to Geometry), your DD will likely fly through it and grasp it easily, leaving you time to do an Algebra 1 review all next year. (For example, our DS knocked out MUS Geometry is a little LESS than 1 semester, so I was able to throw a little Geometry proofs at him from Jacobs Geometry, since we had that sitting around from older DS. ;) Geometry was SO much easier than Algebra 1 & 2 for very visual-spatial DS#2!)

 

As for what to use for "re-doing" Algebra 1 -- or reviewing -- I'd suggest coming at it from a different perspective, to help you really see what she's retaining/not retaining from Saxon, and at the same time, let you see if something else might "click" a little better for her. Perhaps one of these ideas would work -- all of these are programs that someone with a struggling math student has posted good results with it: 

- Key to Algebra (which lets you take as long/short of time as desired on a topic)

- Math-U-See Algebra 1

- Kinetic Books: Algebra 1

- Math Relief --  Cathy Duffy review

- My Homeschool Math Class -- online classes taught by WTMer Jann in TX! -- lots of tutoring help for students -- and year-round "boot camp" classes available

 

 

Kudos to your DD for persevering with a subject that is tough for her! BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you for all these suggestions!  I'm looking into them and seeing what might work. 

 

I'm also very glad to hear that MUS Geometry is light on proofs.  They were my nemesis in school (despite getting A's in other other math) and my DS who is extremely advanced in math also struggled with them, I was kinda dreading tackling them with DD.  So no matter what we end up doing with Algebra, I'll definitely be eyeing MUS for Geometry.

 

I'd like to see her have 3 years of math but yet I'm not sure she will make it through Algebra II.  I figured if I could legitimately make Algebra 1 into 2 years and than take Geometry we might just call it good.

Edited February 27, 2018 by cjzimmer1

[cjzimmer1]

Aleks https://www.aleks.com

Is a paid program and good for finding holes. Not a full program, but would provide that immediate feedback for a second pass.

 We actually used Aleks for a couple of months before starting Algebra just to shore up her basic arithmetic skills.  I LOVE it for finding those gaps but we usually end up pulling from other resources to teach the information for those gap areas because there isn't enough explanation to get the concept across to DD. She needs every little step explained to her (even my math loving DS said he felt explanations were weak at times). But it's a good idea to run her through it again after she finishes Algebra this year.  Then we could probably just focus on parts of it rather than running through another full year.

[cjzimmer1]

My son will have Algebra 1A  and 1B, each worth a credit.  He *has* put in the hours to earn it, just did not get to the depth needed during 1A for me to say it was enough coverage of standard algebra topics.

 

Honestly, he will probably need summer school to finish his 1B credit.   He's also doing Saxon right now and it is both good (repetition!) and bad for him.  Sometimes the explanations seem very convoluted.  I scrounge around my Algebra stash until I find an explanation that clicks, and then he does the Saxon lesson.  ;)  I have an embarrassing amount of Algebra books.  (   :leaving:    but I have six kids, who knows who will need what books.... teacher training, right ?....)

I can relate to the huge number of math books.  My oldest loves math and for years he would get a new math textbook for his birthday and he was THRILLED.  He would read math books for fun.  But generally what I chose for him were fast paced in depth type of books.  Pretty much the opposite of what she needs.

[RootAnn]

We actually used Aleks for a couple of months before starting Algebra just to shore up her basic arithmetic skills. I LOVE it for finding those gaps but we usually end up pulling from other resources to teach the information for those gap areas because there isn't enough explanation to get the concept across to DD.

Yes- just to identify the gaps, not fill them! You will know what needs extra focus on the second time through Algebra.

[Tess in the Burbs]

this is how we dealt with it.  DS took Algebra 1.  I learned it again with him and he truly earned the grade he got that year.  I thought he would go into geometry.  About 6 weeks in he begged to stop.  He wasn't up for the challenge.  Since math needs to happen yearly I though why not do an algebra review workbook.  Critical Thinking had a book.  Nope, a few weeks in he was struggling and wanted me to answer too many questions for a kid who passed this class just the previous year.  At that point I put him in an online class that review algebra concepts for a semester.  It was perfect.  It proved to him he knew it already. It proved to me he was ready to go into geometry and I just needed to push him a little.  

 

on the transcript this actually is MS.  I have it listed under credits earned before HS.  

 

Algebra 1 1cr.  

Solidifying Foundations of Algebra 1/2cr. 

 

I think any admissions person is going to see he had a review class and not question it.  

[Hilltopmom]

Ds took it twice too. Once with MUS then with TT concurrently with geometry.

Then he moved onto DO Alg 2.

 

I only listed it once on his transcript.

[JudoMom]

DD (14) has always struggled with math.  And I'm not the best teacher for her because math has always been easy for me and its perfectly logical.  I struggle getting concepts across to her because what is obvious to me is not obvious to her and I don't know how to break it down anymore so that it becomes obvious for her.

 

So despite my own feelings on the book, we switched to Saxon.  She has done better with this than other programs.   She has completed 7/6, 8/7, and this year is doing Algebra through Virtual Homeschool Group (the at your own pace version).  She likes it because she can keep trying different problems over and over until she gets them right and retake tests when she bombs them (which is most of the time).  She also likes the instant grading (because I pretty much suck at grading in a timely manner).  But I'm not really sure how much she is grasping and retaining.  

 

Rather than moving her ahead to Geometry, I was thinking of having her repeat Algebra just to make sure she has a good grasp/foundation.  But I have some questions

 

1)  How do you put it on the transcript that you spent two years on a subject that is traditionally taught in one

2) What curriculum would be a good followup (would especially love something online so she could have a self grading option)

 

Would appreciate any thoughts, ideas, or BTDT stories with what worked.

 

Does the VHS have the incremental practice built in to their problem sets?  Or are the problems for each lesson simply what was studied that day?

 

I keep forgetting about VHS, but like you I'm horrible at giving immediate feedback.  But I can't tell if they have the spiral, incremental practice built in like the books.

 

(Sorry, I don't really have an answer to your question.)

Edited February 27, 2018 by JudoMom

[cjzimmer1]

Does the VHS have the incremental practice built in to their problem sets?  Or are the problems for each lesson simply what was studied that day?

 

I keep forgetting about VHS, but like you I'm horrible at giving immediate feedback.  But I can't tell if they have the spiral, incremental practice built in like the books.

 

(Sorry, I don't really have an answer to your question.)

 

Yes they do have review built into each day.  

[almondbutterandjelly]

DD (14) has always struggled with math.  And I'm not the best teacher for her because math has always been easy for me and its perfectly logical.  I struggle getting concepts across to her because what is obvious to me is not obvious to her and I don't know how to break it down anymore so that it becomes obvious for her.

 

 

 

This is my dd and me.  I am a detail person.  My degree is in math.  She is a big picture person.  Does things almost the opposite of how I would do them.  Mathusee is excellent for us.  Mr. Demme is great on concepts.  We had done Horizons Algebra for a semester before I switched to MUS because I felt like, yes, she's doing the procedures, but she's not really remembering them.  She needs the concepts, the big pictures.  MUS has been excellent.  We essentially took two years to get through Algebra 1 because of our Horizons mis-step.

 

I did go ahead and start her on Geometry (Lifepac) in the 10th grade, even though we were only halfway through the MUS Algebra book.  After three months, I realized Lifepac wasn't a good fit, and we switched to MUS Geometry.  Excellent.  Big pictures.  Just cannot say enough good things about it.  It has been really nice overlapping that with Algebra.  But that also meant that we are taking almost two years to get through Geometry.

 

So I started Algebra 2 anyway at the beginning of her junior year.  It's a really nice overlap with being a bit more than halfway through the Geometry book.  Lots of connections and overlapping concepts.  She is flying through Algebra 2, and we may actually finish that one in just over a year.  

 

However, once we finish Geometry (very soon!), we will start the PreCalculus book (still overlapping with Algebra 2).  I am not sure how long PreCal will take, and my dd is college-bound.

 

One thing I have learned is that it's very good to get through Functions in math for SATs, and for MUS, that doesn't come until PreCal.  

 

We always work on math through the summer, and we have been overlapping (taking 2) math classes since her sophomore year.  It's been fine.  The connections are a great reinforcer, really.

 

As far as credit, I organize our transcripts by Subject not by school year, so I just give credit as follows (but list it on transcripts as Algebra 1: 1.0 credit, Geometry 1.0 credit, etc.):

Algebra 1 (freshman year) .5 credit

Algebra 1 (sophomore year) .5 credit

Geometry (sophomore year) .5 credit

Geometry (sophomore year) .5 credit

 

HTH!

 

Kim

Edited February 28, 2018 by perkybunch

[Meriwether]

My oldest son is doing Algebra I for the second year. He did fine the first time through, but he has been a really slow worker. I hoped a second pass through with a different book would help him with speed. So far, it has seemed like a good decision. I think Algebra I is so important to learn well that if a student struggles a second year is a good idea.