Which would you rather.....19yo vaping issue

[scrapbookbuzz]

What adults do is their business, so long as they're only harming themselves. If they're not using my money or doing it on my property, or near me, then it's their life, their body, and their choice.

To the bolded, neither vaping, smoking cigarettes, or smoking marijuana is "only harming themselves." All of it is disgusting, at the minimum in SMELL. It all smells horrible. Beyond that, it invades others breathing space. It really annoys me that I can't sit out on my patio on a nice day without smelling my neighbor's smoking cigarette and having to breathe in their second-hand smoke! And, to piggyback on a previous poster's comment, wtih marijuana being legalized, while there are several non-psychotropic (non-mind alterating) choices, you good and well know some are using that for an excuse to light up a doobie and drive during and/or after smoking. Smoking that stuff IS mind-altering and can cause a person to cause just as much damage as a drunk driver! Even the smell of vape smoke I find disgusting. So, I disagree that any of it is "only harming themselves." It's causing much discomfort and harm to the other people these smokers are around.

[Farrar]

Idk. Apparently it's perceived as the same to those who choose the drugs over the relationships. I've seen that time and again. I guess I could still talk to them in the phone. But if they can't handle going 20 minutes without a hit (which I have seen plenty of) then for most intents, they have completely cut themselves off from anyone who won't tolerate it.

 

But I came back to this bread bc I wanted to note that while my stance wouldn't change about to the two choices given my stance would be coupled with DEEP CONCERN about why they feeling a need to self medicate at all. All demographics can fall into the self medication trap if they don't have people and or resources to seek healthier options. The OP mentions grades and such which I always find to be odd and irrelevant. They could be a rhode scholar and gainfully employees and my stance wouldn't change. They could be flunking and unemployed and my stance wouldn't change. But neither would my concern and effort to explore why they are seeking these things at all. I think this aspect would upset me for more than the symptom of vaping itself.

 

I think there's a huge gulf between occasionally vaping around friends and not being able to stop vaping for 20 minutes to hang out in a space that doesn't allow it - either a business or a family space. If someone has a serious problem, that's one thing. But the vast majority of people who use legal recreational drugs - vaping, tobacco cigarettes, pot in various forms, alcohol, or even caffeine - don't develop these sorts of serious issues. All of those things can be hazardous to your health in various ways. All of them are dramatically more hazardous if you use more often. But most people don't develop deep seated issues with them after use. Tobacco is probably one of the most dangerous in terms of straight up addiction - it's very, very hard to quit. But even most regular tobacco users can stop using for a few hours and do so routinely.

 

I just cannot imagine cutting off an adult child for doing a legal drug outside my presence unless it was accompanied with serious, ongoing addiction issues and behaviors. I might have concerns about it, but that would be dramatically different from being unwilling to see them.

 

Most people use legal drugs occasionally. Somewhere between 15-20% of adult Americans smoke. Around 70% of adult Americans drink at least occasionally. More than 50% have tried pot at least once. 83% drink coffee. The number of people who are using a drug recreationally is really, really high. While it's not necessarily healthy, I think approaching it as if it's a deep, unusual problem is probably only going to strain a relationship further. Most humans seek out some level of intoxication or altered state - even if just a little caffeine buzz - as part of being human.

[sbgrace]

If given input, I think I would pick the tobacco flavored liquid, hoping said loved one favors the non-nicotine forms. 

 

I would be concerned about marijuana impacts on a young adult brain most of all I think. Then there are issues with driving impaired while using and, in this case, the legality of it. It may not be prosecuted generally, but what if you were an under-age user involved in a car accident, impaired or not? For many, marijuana stays in the system on tests for a long time. 

 

Tough choice, though, and expensive. My mom heart would be really sad, and I'd hope it's short lived. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by sbgrace

[Liz CA]

Idk. Apparently it's perceived as the same to those who choose the drugs over the relationships. I've seen that time and again. I guess I could still talk to them in the phone. But if they can't handle going 20 minutes without a hit (which I have seen plenty of) then for most intents, they have completely cut themselves off from anyone who won't tolerate it.

 

But I came back to this bread bc I wanted to note that while my stance wouldn't change about to the two choices given my stance would be coupled with DEEP CONCERN about why they feeling a need to self medicate at all. All demographics can fall into the self medication trap if they don't have people and or resources to seek healthier options. The OP mentions grades and such which I always find to be odd and irrelevant. They could be a rhode scholar and gainfully employees and my stance wouldn't change. They could be flunking and unemployed and my stance wouldn't change. But neither would my concern and effort to explore why they are seeking these things at all. I think this aspect would upset me for more than the symptom of vaping itself.

 

Yes, the fact someone is still holding up grades, etc is really not the issue. The need to smoke/vape, etc. is IMHO.

 

[StaceyinLA]

Non nicotine would be my first choice.

 

I don't like it or cigarettes, but I cannot IMAGINE losing a relationship with my child over something like this. That's the most absurd thing I think I've ever heard. If it was some sort of destructive behavior that was dragging me down, or requiring some major financial output from me, I'd definitely put a foot down, but these are adult children who work and pay their own way, and I can't imagine separating myself from any of them over smoking. And even the one who lives at home (though she is moving soon) smokes here, but only outside.

 

All of my kids have smoked cigarettes at different times. The older girls who are moms now haven't smoked in years. My unmarried daughter smokes, but knows she needs to stop and has a boyfriend encouraging her, so I'm hoping she will soon. My son smoked for a while and now he does use a non-nicotine vape occasionally.

 

None of them smoke (or vape) right around me because I HATE cigarette smoke, and I don't know enough about vape to consider it safe, and none have ever done either indoors at any of their homes.

 

I don't love that any of them have/do smoke/vape, but I made some decisions my parents didn't love, and they still loved me, so that's my example and I have no complaints.

[Bluegoat]

Because I can. To some extent. I will not give one dime or one minute of my time to it. So live somewhere else and find another way to pay for everything.

 

They can choose to move out bc they would rather choose to smoke/vap whatever. That's their choice. But I choose to not have it on my property or around any of my other children or myself. To those living here, if they can afford to vap, they can afford to move out.

 

This applies to more than my children. People who smoke or vape don't do so on my property or around my children. My in laws were told we wouldn't visit or let the grandchildren visit if he was doing it. Blablahblah but he should be able to do anything he wants in his own home. Well he can. But we won't be there if he does it.

 

I meant it doesn't seem to follow based on what the OP said she was trying to figure out.  Which seems to be, essentially, if you knew your child was doing one of these things, which would worry you more.

 

The third option really muddies the waters.

[StaceyinLA]

Idk. Apparently it's perceived as the same to those who choose the drugs over the relationships. I've seen that time and again. I guess I could still talk to them in the phone. But if they can't handle going 20 minutes without a hit (which I have seen plenty of) then for most intents, they have completely cut themselves off from anyone who won't tolerate it.

 

But I came back to this bread bc I wanted to note that while my stance wouldn't change about to the two choices given my stance would be coupled with DEEP CONCERN about why they feeling a need to self medicate at all. All demographics can fall into the self medication trap if they don't have people and or resources to seek healthier options. The OP mentions grades and such which I always find to be odd and irrelevant. They could be a rhode scholar and gainfully employees and my stance wouldn't change. They could be flunking and unemployed and my stance wouldn't change. But neither would my concern and effort to explore why they are seeking these things at all. I think this aspect would upset me for more than the symptom of vaping itself.

I don't think we're talking about someone who can't go without for a short period of time. That, to me, would be a problem no matter what you were dealing with.

 

As far as the self-medicating though, don't we really all do that in some way, shape or form? If it's not smoking or alcohol, are we not drinking coffee every day, or tea? Are there not people taking their "legal" prescriptions for everything under the sun? I guess I just don't see this as different from other vices. Now, is it a disgusting vice? Yes it is. I cannot STAND the smell of smoke at ALL, and I can smell it on something from a mile away. However, I do think there are many vices and don't believe this is really this (from a mental/addiction aspect) any worse than some of the others.

[Bluegoat]

I have a young-20s relative who smokes. I am disappointed. I wouldn't be around her while she was smoking (nor would she smoke around me). I know at holidays she leaves on a pretense (taking the dog out, even taking out the trash), and comes back smelling like smoke.

 

I don't see how I can ostracize her over this. In theory I would, bc I have a strong personal dislike and disapproval of it.

 

But in practice I don't think it's my business and she is respectful in keeping it out of view.

 

Some relatives don't think she should be allowed to stay in the family home over this, when she visits at Christmas, and really take her mom to task over it.

 

I think it is not worth not letting her sleep in the house at Christmastime.

 

I don't think I know all the details -- but just bc everybody can tell she leaves and comes back smelling like cigarette smoke -- well I don't think that is grounds to be so harsh.

 

This is it.

 

At some point, people are adults.  In the OP the kid was technically too young to smoke mj, but essentially these are legal choices.

 

I would be shocked if someone who is a teetotaler essentially cut off kids who chose to drink socially in other places, not letting them visit or stay at holidays.  It seems like a real over-stepping of bounds with an adult, even if it is your adult child.

[Guest]

I'd take flavored nicotine liquid any day of the week over marijuana. The only MJ product I can get on board with is CBD oil for certain conditions.

[Annie G]

Middle daughter drank and smoked when she lived at home but the situation was this: She was out of school and fully paying her own way while living here, and she did not do either in our house.  It was a good compromise. She was of legal age and we didn't try to control what she did but we made our feelings clear (both sides of the family have members with addiction issues and we think it's a bad idea for our kids to engage in that behavior) and she respected it and did not do either while here. 

 

I know nothing about vaping or pot, and would prefer the kids not engage in either, but I really don;t know which is 'worse'. 

[Murphy101]

I don't think we're talking about someone who can't go without for a short period of time. That, to me, would be a problem no matter what you were dealing with.

 

As far as the self-medicating though, don't we really all do that in some way, shape or form? If it's not smoking or alcohol, are we not drinking coffee every day, or tea? Are there not people taking their "legal" prescriptions for everything under the sun? I guess I just don't see this as different from other vices. Now, is it a disgusting vice? Yes it is. I cannot STAND the smell of smoke at ALL, and I can smell it on something from a mile away. However, I do think there are many vices and don't believe this is really this (from a mental/addiction aspect) any worse than some of the others.

But that's just rot. Not all things are created equal. If my kid said they had tried a cigarette or vape, I'd be disappointed and adamant thy not do it again. If my kid knows that doing X will cause them to be cut off from family who can't or won't be around X and they choose to do it anyways? Then why do they get to claim *I* am the one hurting the relationship?

 

And yes. My mother smoked her entire short life. And it cost her a relationship with me as a child and as an adult. And then she died of cancer. So it cost her relationships to everyone in the end what with her no longer being around. Because she needed that cigarette more than relationships. Which hey. That was her choice but as an asthmatic living with her, just smoking outside was BS my asthma wasn't buying. She would get mad because I hated hugging her. Geez. I could hardly breath at home or when she hugged me bc the smoke had permitted everything. And then I took care of her in her last days as she died of cancer. How dare she have ever whined that I was the one hurting our relationship over her choice to self medicate in a harmful manner. As a kid I didn't know better. As an adult I think her addiction was just.... damned sad.

 

And I've had this talk with my kids over the years. Talks about unhealthy self medicating. About abusing things. About how that affects relationships. About how no one ever knows how bad it will get when they take that first hit. Or if they have addiction tendencies. About how important it is to know we will help them and to avoid going down that road and ask for help if they want to turn back from it.

 

Same thing for motorcycles. Damned death machines. I've gone to funerals for five people riding them and hell will freeze before they can park on my property. Yes. There's a million dangerous ways to die. But I'm okay with having my limits and I'm okay with you having yours. Just keep it away from me and mine, tyvm.

 

Neither of these stances have had an negative affect on any of my children so far.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Murphy101

[nixpix5]

So if the love and education didn't work, you would stop seeing an adult child for smoking or vaping? Cut them out of your life entirely, have zero contact, even if they didn't do it in your presence? You're out of the family, I'm done with you forever unless you change this? That attitude just seems shockingly harsh.

No I wouldn't cut them out entirely. I think I misunderstood the original intent of the question. I was thinking more how you can control it while they are young so that they make better choices later. I would not cut communication but I wouldn't provide funds/housing support etc for someone who was using. I couldn't cut off a child entirely from love as that is too harsh to me.

[Murphy101]

No I wouldn't cut them out entirely. I think I misunderstood the original intent of the question. I was thinking more how you can control it while they are young so that they make better choices later. I would not cut communication but I wouldn't provide funds/housing support etc for someone who was using. I couldn't cut off a child entirely from love as that is too harsh to me.

Oddly enough I wouldn't either. And yet here I am in the zero tolerance camp quite comfortably.

[Bluegoat]

But that's just rot. Not all things are created equal. If my kid said they had tried a cigarette or vape, I'd be disappointed and adamant thy not do it again. If my kid knows that doing X will cause them to be cut off from family who can't or won't be around X and they choose to do it anyways? Then why do they get to claim *I* am the one hurting the relationship?

 

And yes. My mother smoked her entire short life. And it cost her a relationship with me as a child and as an adult. And then she died of cancer. So it cost her relationships to everyone in the end what with her no longer being around. Because she needed that cigarette more than relationships. Which hey. That was her choice but as an asthmatic living with her, just smoking outside was BS my asthma wasn't buying. She would get mad because I hated hugging her. Geez. I could hardly breath at home or when she hugged me bc the smoke had permitted everything. And then I took care of her in her last days as she died of cancer. How dare she have ever whined that I was the one hurting our relationship over her choice to self medicate in a harmful manner. As a kid I didn't know better. As an adult I think her addiction was just.... damned sad.

 

And I've had this talk with my kids over the years. Talks about unhealthy self medicating. About abusing things. About how that affects relationships. About how no one ever knows how bad it will get when they take that first hit. Or if they have addiction tendencies. About how important it is to know we will help them and to avoid going down that road and ask for help if they want to turn back from it.

 

Same thing for motorcycles. Damned death machines. I've gone to funerals for five people riding them and hell will freeze before they can park on my property. Yes. There's a million dangerous ways to die. But I'm okay with having my limits and I'm okay with you having yours. Just keep it away from me and mine, tyvm.

 

Neither of these stances have had an negative affect on any of my children so far.

 

But this is what is used as a justification for parents insisting on all kinds of behavior control of adult kids.

 

Maybe for you it is smoking or driving a motorcycle.

 

For another it is drinking.

 

For another it is dating in college or wearing clothes they don't approve of.

 

"Well, Josie knew that if she dated a Jewish boy, she'd be cut off - how is it my fault if she chose to ignore that?"

Edited June 26, 2017 by Bluegoat

[Murphy101]

But this is what is used as a justification for parents insisting on all kinds of behavior control of adult kids.

 

Maybe for you it is smoking or driving a motorcycle.

 

For another it is drinking.

 

For another it is dating in college or wearing clothes they don't approve of.

 

"Well, Josie knew that if she dated a Jewish boy, she'd be cut off - how is it my fault if she chose to ignore that?"

Sure they do. And I don't agree with it as a general catch all for relationship conflicts or for most things actually. They can parent their own kids however they choose. The notion that choices have consequences isn't some new concept for an adult to grasp.

 

And again, I view this from an entirely different POV than some here. I'd want to know why they are feeling such a strong urge to self medicate that it's worth sacrificing time with family over. Or what was wrong in our relationship that it had such little value to them.

 

Obviously the choice is their's but I have just as much choice to not have that around my property, self or my other children - which means that yes, avoiding all those things is going to severely limit their ability to interact with us if they insist on having their recreational drugs.

 

As a kid, I thought my mother was stupid and selfish bc she smoked. Yes she smoked outside but it really didn't help as much as she claimed. Hugging her was like hugging an ash tray. I dreaded getting in her car. If I accidentally put her clothes in with mine in the washer, then my clothes smelled off. But she couldn't smell any of it. Going to the lake with her was the worst. Because we were outside. Every gust of wind got me a mouthful of smoke. I was miserable. And she knew it and smoked anyway. As an adult I somewhat get she was in the middle of a 40 year addiction that would eventually kill her and it wasn't about me or our relationship at all. But as a kid and teen who was always tired and short of breath, it was not really possible for me to have that perspective. And it was a horrible example to set that I wouldn't want my younger children exposed to by those they look up to, such as older siblings and grandparents.

 

If it matters, we have never had an actual argument over clothing, dating or recreational drug use with any of our kids. It's just never been an issue so far.