Alternatives to Biology/Chemistry/Physics on the High School Transcript

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm looking for some BTDT advice from people whose kids have been accepted to college with something other than the standard 3 credits w/ lab - Biology, Chemistry,Physics - on their transcripts.  How have colleges reacted to students having other science w/ lab credits besides the "big 3?"

 

My dd is not a stem student, but she's always loved Astronomy and she'd like to take the Astronomy class at the local CC as one of her science credits. They offer two options, Stellar Astronomy and Astronomy of the Solar System. They both are lab courses, transferable to the states 4-year unis (CSU & UC) and AA-degree applicable.  Could she take this instead of taking Physics as one of her 3 science credits without adversely affecting her college application?

 

I know you are supposed to look at colleges dc are interested in to make this decision, but that's not really helping me. She's in 9th so doesn't really know where she wants to go. Option 1 is doing 2 years of DE at the CC then transferring to a state school. Astronomy will work for that.  

 

But if she wants to go directly to a 4-year college: Some say specifically that you need Bio, Chem & Physics. How rigid is that? It seems like I read about kids all the time who have taken alternative sequences and still gotten into college. Is this right, or am I wishful thinking?

 

Other colleges say "2 science required (3 preferred); one life science and one physical science required."  It seems like Astronomy works in that case.

 

What says the Hive?

Edited December 26, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[dereksurfs]

Hi Rose,

 

I'm glad you asked this question as it is similar to mine. Although I was thinking of replacing Biology with something else until I looked at the creative Biology path you and others are taking. While the standard answers are obvious: 'check with the colleges you plan to attend' or 'take it just to be on the safe side,' you're right. We don't always know where they will be attending especially as a freshman or sophomores. Some don't even know their major yet and won't for quite some time. I mean let's get real. Heck, many seniors don't even know which college they will be attending until 'after' they apply, hear back and then consider potential scholarship offers, total costs, program pluses and minuses, campus life, etc... So how do we generally plan for such things while sometimes taking the road less traveled? 

 

Obviously many adults and college graduates have done well in their professions without taking one of these three science courses while in high school. In CA we have a very 'general' idea from the CSU and UC requirements. But I went to private universities in CA which had different requirements than either. So it really depends on many factors: state, public/private, major, etc... 

Edited December 26, 2016 by dereksurfs

[Garga]

Hi Rose,

 

I'm glad you asked this question as it is similar to mine. Although I was thinking of replacing Biology with something else until I looked at the creative Biology path you and others are taking. While the standard answers are obvious: 'check with the colleges you plan to attend' or 'take it just to be on the safe side,' you're right. We don't always know where they will be attending especially as a freshman or sophomores. Some don't even know their major yet and won't for quite some time. I mean let's get real. Heck, many seniors don't even know which college they will be attending until 'after' they apply, hear back and then consider potential scholarship offers, total costs, program pluses and minuses, campus life, etc... So how do we generally plan for such things while sometimes taking the road less traveled? 

 

Obviously many adults and college graduates have done well in their professions without taking one of these three science courses while in high school. In CA we have a very 'general' idea from the CSU and UC requirements. But I went to private universities in CA which had different requirements than either. So it really depends on many factors: state, public/private, major, etc... 

 

 

 

This is so true.  I know there's really no other way to answer the question than "depends on the college they want to attend", but my 14 year old has no idea what college he wants to attend.  And unless something dramatic happens, he won't know until the last minute like you said above.  Honestly, he didn't even realize he was expected to go to college until this past September. The future is all a fuzzy blur to him at this point.  He's not picking colleges and thinking of majors right now.  :)  

 

Sorry OP that I can't answer your question, but it's a good one and I hope some good answers come in.

[foxbridgeacademy]

So I looked at several College admission reqs. (UC, A&M, IU, Purdue, and MTSU) some don't even state that you have to take Bio/Chem/Physics.  Of the ones that do they require Bio and either Chem or Physics. then recommend additional sciences.  So I'd think Bio, Chemistry and Astronomy would be more than fine. If she really does not want to take a particular course then couldn't you leave it until Senior year?  By then she'd have some idea of where she's going and if they require particular classes.  You could even do Block schedule and get in 2 Science that last year.

 

[kiana]

If you're only missing one of the "big three", it should be pretty simple to fit in a DE senior year class to make it up if you're looking at a college that really wants to see it. Even if you're missing two, most CC's offer first-semester bio/chem or bio/chem for non-majors in the spring. 

 

Imo, take what she's interested in now and plan on using junior/senior year if a college of strong interest or a planned major definitely requires physics/chemistry. 

[dereksurfs]

If you're only missing one of the "big three", it should be pretty simple to fit in a DE senior year class to make it up if you're looking at a college that really wants to see it. Even if you're missing two, most CC's offer first-semester bio/chem or bio/chem for non-majors in the spring. 

 

Imo, take what she's interested in now and plan on using junior/senior year if a college of strong interest or a planned major definitely requires physics/chemistry. 

 

This is one of the many beauties of DE. They allow you to pick up a course in one semester that would normally take an entire homeschool year of planning, sweating over, teaching, etc... Instead, just sign, take it and BAM, done! No mom/dad grades, etc... Complete it in one semester and move on. Of course you have to be adequately prepared for the content. But those non-major courses are typically not as intense as the 1A STEM equivalents.

[Lori D.]

Agreeing with previous posters' suggestions about the "big 3", and it does seem like when it is a non-STEM major, that as long as the student has the requisite *number* of science credits, many college admission offices will flex about which specific ones -- esp. if you've done 1-2 of the "big 3".

I just wanted to add a caveat that you will really want to investigate the content of the 4-unit Astronomy classes that transfer to the university. Even though these are introductory courses, they OFTEN have MUCH more to do with the math calculations and physics exercises that are a part of Astronomy, rather than just the enjoyable introduction to  facts and information about Astronomy that your DD may be wanting/expecting. What you would be wanting is something that is for non-Astronomy-majors, or for the general public. (But do note: those are often only 3-unit courses, and/or are not always accepted as transfer credits to a university.)

Good luck, and enjoy! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lori D.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I took Chem for non-majors and did great even though I'd never taken Chem in H.S.

[Chrysalis Academy]

If you're only missing one of the "big three", it should be pretty simple to fit in a DE senior year class to make it up if you're looking at a college that really wants to see it. Even if you're missing two, most CC's offer first-semester bio/chem or bio/chem for non-majors in the spring. 

 

Imo, take what she's interested in now and plan on using junior/senior year if a college of strong interest or a planned major definitely requires physics/chemistry. 

 

This is the best plan, I think. It's so good to have DE as a backup! 

 

Geez, maybe we don't even have to do science next year? We've got one credit in 9th, and she can easily do two more via DE during her last two years.  

 

It's completely out of character (for me) to feel gleeful at this prospect - I love science, and even though it's a "meh" subject for dd I do think it's important.  But we spent junior high really hammering scientific literacy, so I feel she has a good grasp of basic, citizen-science level concepts in all the main domains. And the problem isn't doing a class at home, it's doing labs at home. We're really struggling with that. I'm finding it extremely difficult to find meaningful experiments that we can do without a lot of costly equipment & supplies or that we can pull off as written at home. And it's hard to motivate, for both of us, because it's always pulling away from things she'd rather be working on. If it's hard to pull off for Biology, which is the subject I know best, i can't even imagine trying to do it for the other sciences.  So leaving it for the CC, with a real lab and a real science teacher, is very appealing.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Agreeing with previous posters' suggestions about the "big 3", and it does seem like when it is a non-STEM major, that as long as the student has the requisite *number* of science credits, many college admission offices will flex about which specific ones -- esp. if you've done 1-2 of the "big 3".

 

I just wanted to add a caveat that you will really want to investigate the content of the 4-unit Astronomy classes that transfer to the university. Even though these are introductory courses, they OFTEN have MUCH more to do with the math calculations and physics exercises that are a part of Astronomy, rather than just the enjoyable introduction to  facts and information about Astronomy that your DD may be wanting/expecting. What you would be wanting is something that is for non-Astronomy-majors, or for the general public. (But do note: those are often only 3-unit courses, and/or are not always accepted as transfer credits to a university.)

 

Good luck, and enjoy! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Yes, I was concerned about this too. But the classes only require algebra.  And dd is completing Algebra 2 this year and is doing very well. It might even be good for her to have a math-heavy lab class, to demonstrate the usefulness of math, and to keep her skills in Algebra sharp while we're doing Geometry.  It is a risk, though, that the class will end up being significantly different than she is anticipating. I'll make sure she reads the posted syllabi and we check out the textbooks and the professor's ratings before we sign up. I'm also going to show her all of the science-with-lab options, and just let her pick what she's most interested in learning about, I think.

[quark]

This is the best plan, I think. It's so good to have DE as a backup!

 

Geez, maybe we don't even have to do science next year? We've got one credit in 9th, and she can easily do two more via DE during her last two years.

 

It's completely out of character (for me) to feel gleeful at this prospect - I love science, and even though it's a "meh" subject for dd I do think it's important. But we spent junior high really hammering scientific literacy, so I feel she has a good grasp of basic, citizen-science level concepts in all the main domains. And the problem isn't doing a class at home, it's doing labs at home. We're really struggling with that. I'm finding it extremely difficult to find meaningful experiments that we can do without a lot of costly equipment & supplies or that we can pull off as written at home. And it's hard to motivate, for both of us, because it's always pulling away from things she'd rather be working on. If it's hard to pull off for Biology, which is the subject I know best, i can't even imagine trying to do it for the other sciences. So leaving it for the CC, with a real lab and a real science teacher, is very appealing.

I think CA CCs have an issue other states might not (yet) have and that's lab science classes filling up very quickly with low priority for high school students. I would start tracking this enrollment and number of sections early if possible. At our CC, chemistry and physics fill up fast. The CC creates many more bio science sections than it does chemistry and physics.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I think CA CCs have an issue other states might not (yet) have and that's lab science classes filling up very quickly with low priority for high school students. I would start tracking this enrollment and number of sections early if possible. At our CC, chemistry and physics fill up fast. The CC creates many more bio science sections than it does chemistry and physics.

 

Good point. I'm assuming she'll be able to get into the classes she wants. 

 

Although if she does the CHSEE then she gets higher priority, right? Although then we have to pay for the classes. Still cheaper than online classes, though.

[quark]

With chspe yes but it usually takes effect the following semester not the first. Might depend on CC though. Good luck! <3

[Lori D.]

On 12/27/2016 at 7:19 AM, Chrysalis Academy said:

This is the best plan, I think. It's so good to have DE as a backup! 

Geez, maybe we don't even have to do science next year? We've got one credit in 9th, and she can easily do two more via DE during her last two years.  

...So leaving it for the CC, with a real lab and a real science teacher, is very appealing.

 

On 12/27/2016 at 8:38 AM, Chrysalis Academy said:

Good point. I'm assuming she'll be able to get into the classes she wants...

Yikes! That can be a dicey proposition -- there are all kinds of reasons why you might NOT be able to get the classes you need if you put it off to do TWO sciences as DE in 12th grade. Then you'd be in the boat of having to take very significant time away from her real passion and career focus to jump a hoop. Instead, you might try spreading your remaining 2 sciences out over the 3 years left of high school -- so, you only have to get through about 2/3rds of a program in 10th, and in 11th finish the remaining 1/3 and get 1/3 into the new science, and in 12th, finish the remaining 2/3 of the second science.
 

On 12/27/2016 at 7:22 AM, Chrysalis Academy said:

Yes, I was concerned about this too. But the classes only require algebra.  And dd is completing Algebra 2 this year and is doing very well. It might even be good for her to have a math-heavy lab class, to demonstrate the usefulness of math, and to keep her skills in Algebra sharp while we're doing Geometry.  It is a risk, though, that the class will end up being significantly different than she is anticipating. I'll make sure she reads the posted syllabi and we check out the textbooks and the professor's ratings before we sign up. I'm also going to show her all of the science-with-lab options, and just let her pick what she's most interested in learning about, I think.

Sounds good! Frequently, it is the "Stellar" Astronomy type of course that is the more Math/Physics heavy, and the Solar System type of course that is much less so. And if it's a 4-unit course, that 1 semester college Science equals 1 YEAR of high school credit, so she'd only *need* to do the 1 semester course to knock out another full credit of high school science...

Good luck! ? Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Lori D.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yikes! That can be a dicey proposition -- there are all kinds of reasons why you might NOT be able to get the classes you need if you put it off to do TWO sciences as DE in 12th grade. Then you'd be in the boat of having to take very significant time away from her real passion and career focus to jump a hoop. Instead, you might try spreading your remaining 2 sciences out over the 3 years left of high school -- so, you only have to get through about 2/3rds of a program in 10th, and in 11th finish the remaining 1/3 and get 1/3 into the new science, and in 12th, finish the remaining 2/3 of the second science.

 

 

Sounds good! Frequently, it is the "Stellar" Astronomy type of course that is the more Math/Physics heavy, and the Solar System type of course that is much less so. And if it's a 4-unit course, that 1 semester college Science equals 1 YEAR of high school credit, so she'd only *need* to do the 1 semester course to knock out another full credit of high school science...

 

 

Good luck! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

I was thinking one lab science in 11th and one in 12th via DE - so two semesters out of two years.

 

And yes, the Solar System Astronomy class is 4 units - 3 units of lecture and one unit of lab.

 

So my current thought is to consider the one semester we've done so far a non-lab science, and to do a lab science with a long-term research component spread over the next 3 semesters.  Then one DE lab science in 11th, and another in 12th.  So that would be 3 credits of science w/ lab, and  .5 credit of non-lab science (as an extracurricular, or just additional science credits).

[Classic Mom]

My daughter took Physical Science, Biology, and Chemistry for 9th-11th. For senior year, she taking what are calling "History of Science" which is reading original works by the most important scientists, one complete spine on the history of science, and writing some papers.

And, she was just accepted early decision to Dickinson College, so it was not a problem for a small liberal arts school.

[klmama]

You will feel a lot better if you get answers from the people whose opinion counts: admissions officers.  Call some colleges you think your dc might attend, and ask them what sciences they expect.  Chances are good that many won't care as much as you think they will. 

 

 

[MerryAtHope]

I looked at a number of schools in my state (both state and private schools), and I don't think any of them "required" physics. They all wanted 3 sciences, and usually specified 1 or 2 with labs. Some specified biology or chemistry. Some specified both. Even our local Community College specifies that for those students who want to enter the transfer program (get an associates and transfer), they need to have biology in high school.

 

My oldest (not at all interested in a STEM field) did Physical, Robotics, and Biology, and my youngest has done Bio/Chem/Physics and Advanced Bio (she wants to go on in nursing next year). 

 

All that to say--start looking at schools in your area and see what their requirements are--it may not be all 3 (I think that's usually more elite schools). When I was looking into this, I read that only 20% of high school students take Physics--and a lot more than that go on to college. I'm sure you can find some quality schools that won't demand physics be one of the sciences. 

[AngieW in Texas]

My two older children did the standard sciences.

 

My youngest did not.

9th grade - Conceptual Physics

10th grade - Conceptual Chemistry

11th grade - Life on Earth dual credit class at cc (only biology-type class she could take that didn't require Algebra II as a prerequisite)

12th grade - Geology dual credit class with lab at cc

 

 

My 18yo was accepted at every college we submitted an application to and also received scholarship offers from all of them.

We applied to Adelphi University, Pace University, Hofstra University, and University of Texas at Dallas (financial safety).