Good explanation of why over-taxing the rich is not a good idea.

[Nancy in MI]

Listen, I just went and polled the hens (who I'd assumed were sitting this election out) but to my surprise they each said:

 

bar-RACK bar-RACK bar-RACK :lol:

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Funny, I just polled our hens and they are saying:

 

Mc-Mc-Mc-McCAIN! Mc-Mc_Mc-McCain!

 

:lol:

 

Nancy

[Peek a Boo]

Well, what's in this post bears repeating here. This is why people (ok, well, people like me) scratch their heads over the "Professor Ayers and Sen. Obama served on the same education reform board and went to eight meetings together! and live in the same neighborhood!" furor. Oh, and of course Professor Ayers donated a nice polite $200 to his state senatorial campaign a few years back, and was at a series of coffees in the Hyde Park neighborhood, one of which was in Professor Ayers' house.

 

Unless we're believing the "smoked crack and had gay sex together" whacko rumors, I'm not sure what else there is to be "dug up." "Come clean! Admit it!" I hear this over and over. And yeah, he should so totally do that. Unless, perhaps... this is all there is? Then what?

 

 

nah -- i think the furor is about Obama [and others as far as I'm concerned] not really holding an unrepentant terrorist such as Ayers accountable for their actions and/or words. For years.

 

a nice polite $200. From an unrepentant terrorist.

 

I'm sure there's something/someone similar in McCain's contributions, i just haven't seen it. yet :D

[Peek a Boo]

Have you read his books or have you merely "researched" him online by visiting various right wing websites? I have read his books as well as his website and found everything I ever wanted to know (and then some). I know you people are scared of terrorists and scared of socialists and scared of Muslims. I ask that you really look into that fear and ask yourself if it's legitimate.

 

I love this country and I firmly believe that should we endure another attack from extremist Muslims (or socialists! ;) ), we will still be the greatest country on earth. If we destroy ourselves (by removing our privacy rights, allowing torture, buying into the propoganda from talk radio ala Nazi Germany) in an attempt to never be attacked again than we we will no longer be that great nation. That's a real fear of mine. And I do think its legitimate.

 

 

Margaret

 

gotta agree w/ nancy.

 

heaven forbid reasonable people need to be brainwashed into not liking Obama or the Democratic ideas :rolleyes:

 

you can live in fear if you want to, but don't assume the rest of us are basing our decisions on fear.

[LisaNY]

I find the growing government and increasing taxes to be scary. Spreading the wealth around is terrifying. When you punish smart people who succeed by taxing them more and more, they don't want to continue succeeding. We'll see innovation, initiative, motivation, etc. fall. The very greedy will become rich. Everyone else will become poor. We'll start standing in long lines to collect our government paid for weekly food allowance which won't be enough to feed the family. It was a system that didn't work well for the Soviet Union and it won't work well here.

 

As far as that $200,000 going to a poor person being just as good as staying with the rich person...well the article discussed that. A rich person has the ability to create a job, create products we need, invent something useful, can do something that will benefit society in the long term. Take half their income away, they do less of that. Give it to a poor people and they buy a few necessities but that job, that product, that invention never existed.

 

Obama said in one of the debates that very few small businesses make more than $250,000 and thus wouldn't be affected by his tax increases. My husband learned why so few businesses make more than $250,000 when he worked for a very small one. They don't want to hit that tax bracket so they find ways to spend the money as a write off instead. My husband's employer was VERY generous with his employees to avoid paying those taxes. He took his three employees and their spouses to a Christmas dinner that cost over $800. He took his three employees and their families to Disneyland for a long weekend...paid for airfare, Disneyland hotel, three day park hopper tickets, and breakfast with the characters. I'm sure he paid more than $12,000 for that business trip (they had a 45 minute meeting on the last day to make it deductible). Do you see how taxing the rich at such a high rate actually decreases the taxes the government receives/takes? Those who make enough to be taxed at 55% (what Obama wants to raise it to) will make sure they don't make enough. Leave the tax rate reasonable and the businesses/wealthy won't be trying so hard to right things off.

 

My family has always been low income. We do NOT support taxing businesses and the wealthy in such an unfair way. It hurts us when the government does that. Raise the taxes on businesses and they'll raise the price on their products to recupe the loss. Soon we won't be able to afford even the basics anymore. I'm scared about what we are going to do when that happens.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[LisaNY]

First off Bill, let me tell you I really do enjoy hearing what you have to say about the political climate this year. I've really enjoyed hearing your opinions on the financial mess this country faces. If I had rep I would use it on some of your posts because even though I don't agree with everything you say, I do enjoy learning about your view points on things.

 

I believe Obama was at least partially raised a Muslim. His step-father was one and the paper work from his school in Indonesia reports his religion as Muslim. There are childhood friends of his that are still in Indonesia who remember playing with him in the mosques. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I've known a lot of Muslims over the years and they are fine, upstanding people that I have been proud to know. I do believe that now he is a Christian. But, to me it's a non-issue what ones religion is. Although, why he is so adamant about wanting people not to know that he was around Muslims growing up is an issue for me. I just don't get why he would feel he has to hide that and I find it dishonest. But, whatever, it's his choice.

 

I've never thought he was a terrorist, nor have I ever heard anyone else say he was. I do think he has a pretty close relationship with a known terrorist. I believe he has tried to hide from the public exactly how close the relationship was/is. I have a problem with that. It's not just his one moment of bad judgement in befriending ex-terrorist Bill Ayers that I have a problem with. It's the list of people he has chosen as friends and associates over the years and then tried to hide or disassociate himself from. It's Ayers, Rev Wright, Rezko, and Raila Odinga. These are people I don't want to have the President's ear. And all I can think of is: if these are people we know about, what are his friends that we don't know about like? I don't think he is/was/ or ever will be a terrorist.

 

Socialist: oh yeah, I think it's a good word for him. I would say he believes in Social Democracy. Here's from wikipedia:

 

These positions often include support for a democratic welfare state which incorporates elements of both socialism and capitalism, sometimes termed the mixed economy or the social market economy.[2] This differs from traditional socialism, which aims to end the predominance of capitalism, or Marxism, which aims to replace it with a worker-controlled economic system. Social democrats aim to reform capitalism democratically through state regulation and the creation of programs that work to counteract or remove the injustices and inefficiencies perceived in capitalism.

 

Most of his programs scream Social Democrat to me. Start with Obama handing out tax increase so he can make it more "fair" for all (sorry, the government should tax to get revenue, not to be fair) and then add his health plan, then just for kicks add his "Global poverty act". Yep, I've always thought he was to much a socialist for my comfort.

 

I am not trying to smear the man, nor do I believe I'm spreading untruths. I'm merely trying to help you understand why I don't want him to be president. I do honestly think that Barack Obama loves this country, and I do believe he thinks what he is going to do is good for it, but I think he is wrong. And I will say so with my vote next month. Meanwhile, I will still enjoy hearing your view on both the candidates running (that's McCain, not Bush).

Melissa

 

I feel the same way.

[ma23peas]

Melissa!! You put into words what I've been trying to find the time to do!! I can't stand the wishy washy waffling that Obama does on issues...why deny he was a Muslim? Muslims and the Koran believe/state that if your birth father was a Muslim then you will always be a Muslim regardless of any conversion..he did claim that as his religion, or his parents put it on his form for school..so someone was practicing it...

 

He voted NO on giving the Born Alive law a chance..his excuse was that there were already laws on the books that mandated a doctor intervene and save the child's life

 

"At issue is Obama's opposition to Illinois legislation in 2001, 2002 and 2003 that would have defined any aborted fetus that showed signs of life as a "born alive infant" entitled to legal protection, even if doctors believe it could not survive. Obama opposed the 2001 and 2002 "born alive" bills as backdoor attacks on a woman's legal right to abortion, but he says he would have been "fully in support" of a similar federal bill that President Bush had signed in 2002, because it contained protections for Roe v. Wade.

We find that, as the NRLC said in a recent statement, Obama voted in committee against the 2003 state bill that was nearly identical to the federal act he says he would have supported. Both contained identical clauses saying that nothing in the bills could be construed to affect legal rights of an unborn fetus, according to an undisputed summary written immediately after the committee's 2003 mark-up session."

 

But last night in the debate he said that he would have supported it if it protected Roe v. Wade, which the 2003 DID..and he STILL voted against it...you can say one thing, but when your actions decry something contrary...I have little faith in anything you say. Also, come on, how can a politician stick to absolutes like 100% of McCain's ads are negative...I couldn't believe some of the statements coming out of Obama last night..

 

His agenda is closer to Marxism than I care to venture...and none of this is smearing, it is getting the information straightened out because we're not getting straight answers....I hate that I have to keep checking his voting record against what he says..they don't line up.

 

Tara

[Spy Car]

I think it is pretty despicable to question a person's expressed faith.

 

Really. How you you like the same treatment?

 

Bill

[nmoira]

I think it is pretty despicable to question a person's expressed faith.

Sorry, Bill, I'm with you here, but I cannot read the word "despicable" without hearing it in Sylvester's voice.

 

Packing up and leaving now... as this thread is too Looney Toons for me.

[Peek a Boo]

I think it is pretty despicable to question a person's expressed faith.

 

Really. How you you like the same treatment?

 

Bill

 

who's questioning his expressed faith?

which "same treatment"? The part where they said

I do believe that now he is a Christian.

?

 

 

It's his actions and choices in the past [and now] that are in question --not his faith.

 

If i was attending a Wicca ceremony I'd expect other Christians to question my faith too --because of my ACTIONS. We are called to judge actions. I probably won't judge someone's faith for your typical run of the mill sins if their [overall] fruit is present, but when it comes to worshipping a deity [or not] those are faith-related actions that call for questioning and clarification. "test everything."

 

so yeah --absolutely go ahead and question my faith --it can hold up to the scrutiny :D

 

However, ma23peas-- there are a few places where you list your religion as the mainstream one whether you practice it or not. Listing something else can get you politically/ culturally blackballed or killed. I'm sure many of the atheists/non Christians here could tell you what happens when the mainstream religion finds out you aren't "one of them." I've personally known a couple of atheists/agnostics who felt like they needed to "play Christian" to participate in co-ops and group activities. I started a secular co-op so we wouldn't have to see that.

[Michelle in MO]

If we destroy ourselves (by removing our privacy rights, allowing torture, buying into the propoganda from talk radio ala Nazi Germany) in an attempt to never be attacked again than we we will no longer be that great nation. That's a real fear of mine. And I do think its legitimate.

 

Margaret

 

I certainly don't agree with torture methods to extract information, like you mentioned.

 

However, I think it's extreme to compare all talk radio to Nazi Germany. On another thread this was called "Godwin's Law".

 

Definition from Wikipedia:

 

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

 

Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the reductio ad Hitlerum form.

 

The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussion: electronic mailing lists, message boards, chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.

[Jean too]

Interesting article on why it's playing so well with the left.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/why_obamas_communist_connectio.html

[stripe]

Muslims and the Koran believe/state that if your birth father was a Muslim then you will always be a Muslim regardless of any conversion..

 

In Judaism, if your mother is a Jew, you are a Jew. This is not the case in Islam.