SKL Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 On the other hand, as a general statement, there is something good to be said about not being over-treated or over-tested just because insurance will pay. Personally I would much rather be in and out if possible. Most of the time that I seek traditional medical help for a problem, it takes hours and hours and they end up doing little or nothing to actually fix the problem. Half of the time they don't even tell me what the problem is, and most of the time the person who "treated" us is no longer there by the time we return for follow-up or for the next problem. I go to a chiropractor whenever possible. So far none of that has been covered by insurance. We get in and out much faster, see people we know, and they actually do something and fix the problem, all for less cost. So I'm getting more and more skeptical about insurance for anything but catastrophic problems. I've heard similar comments about going offshore for treatment - cheaper, faster, more to the point, quality just as good, regardless of insurance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSNative Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 My aunt (not poor and on medicare) had a stroke and had an experience similar to yoru friend's. Her first stroke was mild- slurred speech and half her face drooped. Def a stroke - no doubt. They sent her home and that night she had a second stroke that paralyzed half her body. Come to find out later the hospital could have given her a medication that could have prevented the second stroke. I've heard several other experiences like this. Seems like hospitals need to change their stroke procedures. But I agree with you. I got injured at work and the ER didn't take my workmans comp paperwork though I kept trying to hand it to everyone. I had to wait for hours though the Er was pretty empty. (I know that can be hard to determine but I heard nurses chatting and hanging out for long stretches. Im assuming that if the Er was slammed they wouldn't have time for me to overhear their entire life stories. Lol) The dr was an a$$. The nurses at the end were worse. They handed me crutches and when I asked where the bathroom was they pointed down the hall. No one checked to see if the crutches were the right height, if I could move in them, etc. I couldn't walk and yet not one person checked to see if I was ok to go to the bathroom or even check to see if I had fallen in there. It wasn't until I was with the person who checked me out that I realized they thought I was uninsured. I did file a complaint - not that that means anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 (edited) .. Edited September 2, 2016 by Heigh Ho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Endangering the life is a matter of opinion. If she was discharged to walk the street on her own, yes I can agree with you. But if it was to another adult who would care give, then no..she didnt need the services of a professional 24/7. Lots of grandparents whose dementia has similar effect on their lives. She can take legal action if she truly feels endangerment can be proven. Speaking kindly is something you will have to adress with the hospital. Some hospitals just do not have the funding to train staff, or the management to see that the staff uses its training. The hospital closest to me is so poor in training staff that I dont use it...the doctors know it, but they cant change the admin. Luckily I have choice. I have an elderly relative who was released from knee surgery to home (did not meet criteria to go to nursing home). She could not toilet without help or assitive devices. She knew in advance that she would need help or devices as well as meals but didnt arrange for it. Bitter complaints about the hospital ensued... she felt she should stay there....but she did not meet the criteria for needing hospital care. I cant see blaming the hospital for her failure to provide for her recovery, even though she clearly has a mental issue. I agree with some of you said but have questions about a couple of things, if you don't mind. You said your elderly relative had a mental issue. Was that fact known to medical personnel in advance? If so, when they were informing her of what would be needed for her recovery, did they make sure to provide that information to another responsible party (such as the person who took her to the hospital and picked her up) who agreed to see that any help or devices were available? Or did they just tell your relative, knowing she might not follow through due to the mental issue, and just expect her to magically make it happen? If it's the latter, that's just wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 2, 2016 Author Share Posted September 2, 2016 Endangering the life is a matter of opinion. If she was discharged to walk the street on her own, yes I can agree with you. But if it was to another adult who would care give, then no..she didnt need the services of a professional 24/7. Lots of grandparents whose dementia has similar effect on their lives. She can take legal action if she truly feels endangerment can be proven. Speaking kindly is something you will have to adress with the hospital. Some hospitals just do not have the funding to train staff, or the management to see that the staff uses its training. The hospital closest to me is so poor in training staff that I dont use it...the doctors know it, but they cant change the admin. Luckily I have choice. I have an elderly relative who was released from knee surgery to home (did not meet criteria to go to nursing home). She could not toilet without help or assitive devices. She knew in advance that she would need help or devices as well as meals but didnt arrange for it. Bitter complaints about the hospital ensued... she felt she should stay there....but she did not meet the criteria for needing hospital care. I cant see blaming the hospital for her failure to provide for her recovery, even though she clearly has a mental issue. Honestly, your perspective saddens me a great deal. Your elderly relative clearly has a mental issue, and yet you blame her for her inability to arrange for care. If she has a mental issue, then she does not have the capacity to function like you. The ER's solution to my friend's condition was to offer to call her a cab. That is pretty much discharging her to walk the street on her own. As for your comments about legal action--I have been clear in this thread that my friend is indigent. In other words, she is desperately poor, always has been, and always will be. She has difficulties you will never understand. How on earth is she going to sue anyone? And taking notes or photographs or video while coping with a stroke-like medical event is not possible. It's easy to flip around a phrase like, "She can take legal action..." Your statement is insensitive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 (edited) Her mental issue is that she does not want to fulfill her obligations. The surgeon informed her in advance. She wanted to go to a nursing home or stay in the hospital, and thought she could force that by not setting up unskilled care or acquiring devices. The hospital and nursing homes dont have the funding to agree to that, as she couldnt pay privately even if there was an open bed available for someone who didnt need that degree of care. There is no way to force someone who doesnt want to do something recommended by the surgeon, doctor, nutritionist, etc to do it. We have many of these people in the world...too many to institutionalize. Anyway, I am sorry your friend cant navigate on her own, but hopefully she will get and take advantage of community resources. I dont quite understand why she is not in a group home, if she is that low functioning. my conversation here is over, as you have begun insulting those who dont agree with you. Kindly edit your post title and add the jawm label so no one else mistakes it for a discussion. Edited September 2, 2016 by Heigh Ho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 The problem is two fold: One, most hospitals are not equiped to be 24/7 nursing home care facilities for people who do not have a crisis medical situation. They don't have the beds or the staff. Two, slurred speech and trouble walking does not a mentally incompetent person make. And unless it can be proven the patient is mentally incompetent, the hospital can't just detain people (at an incredibly high billing rate at that) who are otherwise medically stable. Did the patient in the OP want to be admitted? Obviously the OP thinks she should have been, but the OP was not there. People with speech and walking problems live on their own every day. That alone does not make a patient medically unstable and it does not mean a patient is mentally unfit to make their own decisions. And you'd be surprised how many people in the same situation would pitch a fit over being admitted. As for not referring to Drs who won't accept the patient for whatever reason, that's flat out not something hospitals have the ability to know or the staff time to investigate. I still think it's awful your friend was alone and scared and treated disrespectfully. I hope she can find someone to go with her to appts and who can help advocate for her. And mostly I hope she gets the care she needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Anyway, I am sorry your friend cant navigate on her own, but hopefully she will get and take advantage of community resources. I dont quite understand why she is not in a group home, if she is that low functioning. Um, she wasn't that low functioning before the medical episode. She was able to walk and talk, until this happened. Why on earth would she be in a group home preventatively? I can walk and talk and don't need a group home. But if I had a stroke, I might need some kind of specialized care. But I don't have that now that would be crazy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valley Girl Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 (edited) Her mental issue is that she does not want to fulfill her obligations. The surgeon informed her in advance. She wanted to go to a nursing home or stay in the hospital, and thought she could force that by not setting up unskilled care or acquiring devices. The hospital and nursing homes dont have the funding to agree to that, as she couldnt pay privately even if there was an open bed available for someone who didnt need that degree of care. There is no way to force someone who doesnt want to do something recommended by the surgeon, doctor, nutritionist, etc to do it. We have many of these people in the world...too many to institutionalize. Anyway, I am sorry your friend cant navigate on her own, but hopefully she will get and take advantage of community resources. I dont quite understand why she is not in a group home, if she is that low functioning. my conversation here is over, as you have begun insulting those who dont agree with you. Kindly edit your post title and add the jawm label so no one else mistakes it for a discussion. I'm not seeing any insults here. Maybe I missed it. Not wanting to fulfill one's obligations (while having fully functioning faculties) does not sound to my untrained ears like a mental issue. You had mentioned grandparents with dementia earlier in the post I referenced, so I thought perhaps that was her struggle. Now she sounds like someone who just wants what she wants. So I'm really confused at this point. ETA: Reread post in question and changed Alzheimer's to dementia. Edited September 2, 2016 by Reluctant Homeschooler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted September 2, 2016 Author Share Posted September 2, 2016 Um, she wasn't that low functioning before the medical episode. She was able to walk and talk, until this happened. Why on earth would she be in a group home preventatively? I can walk and talk and don't need a group home. But if I had a stroke, I might need some kind of specialized care. But I don't have that now that would be crazy. Yes, exactly. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 The fact is that in our country, nobody has a right to take custody of a person or make decisions for them just because they have mental issues. That's one of the reasons we have a homeless population. A hospital is not a boarding house. They can't give people rooms just because that would be more convenient for some patients. Insurance or not, it won't be paid for and it's not going to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 I am sorry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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