whole-to-part outlining ideas?

[rose]

My older dc are using WWS1 and I think that they're struggling a little to see the big picture point of outlining. Their outlines are usually too simplistic and they complain about them I think because they're missing the point. Does anybody have any suggestions?

[almondbutterandjelly]

My big picture kiddo did not do well with WWS 1.  We stopped when they started making her re-write the description of a room.

 

That said, outlining for us is big picture.  Her outlines are simple, unless she is having to write a paper from them, in which case we go through the simple outline again a couple times and add stuff for the paper.  Not whole sentences necessarily, just ideas and phrases.  Bullet points, if you will.

 

So the outlines can be simple because their big picture minds work that way?  (If that's the case.  I think so from you post.  If not, please disregard :)  )

[zoobie]

There's a workbook-style Outlining by Remedia Publications recommended here. We used it and liked it early last year, though I'm not sure how much stuck. I may repeat it or parts of it later this year. There are two books for separate age groups.

[Another Lynn]

My big picture kiddo did not do well with WWS 1.  We stopped when they started making her re-write the description of a room.

 

That said, outlining for us is big picture.  Her outlines are simple, unless she is having to write a paper from them, in which case we go through the simple outline again a couple times and add stuff for the paper.  Not whole sentences necessarily, just ideas and phrases.  Bullet points, if you will.

 

So the outlines can be simple because their big picture minds work that way?  (If that's the case.  I think so from you post.  If not, please disregard :)  )

 

This.  

 

The rest of the post is good advice too.  

[nansk]

Might mind-maps work for this dc instead of outlines? Maybe create a mind-map first, and then create an outline from it?

[Arcadia]

Mind maps were nice as starters but as my kids get older, what was useful was typing out their outlines.

 

First they put down the big picture points. Then they come back later or the next day to add details. Then they add more details. Eventually they could make topic sentences out of the big picture points and write short paragraphs using the details.

[rose]

My big picture kiddo did not do well with WWS 1.  We stopped when they started making her re-write the description of a room.

 

That said, outlining for us is big picture.  Her outlines are simple, unless she is having to write a paper from them, in which case we go through the simple outline again a couple times and add stuff for the paper.  Not whole sentences necessarily, just ideas and phrases.  Bullet points, if you will.

 

So the outlines can be simple because their big picture minds work that way?  (If that's the case.  I think so from you post.  If not, please disregard :)  )

 

Can you help me understand this a little? I've always struggled to understand the process of teaching someone to write and WWS has been a really nice crutch for me. I think what's happening with the outlines is that since we're only on week 12 and they're only 1 level outlines they're failing to see the point of outlining at all. It would be like someone giving them an assignment requiring them to write out ever 10th word of the story. The why of outlining would help them.

 

Might mind-maps work for this dc instead of outlines? Maybe create a mind-map first, and then create an outline from it?

 

Do you have any good resources for this? I remember doing something like this in highschool and I thought that it was incredibly lame. Maybe they just taught it poorly.

 

Mind maps were nice as starters but as my kids get older, what was useful was typing out their outlines.

 

First they put down the big picture points. Then they come back later or the next day to add details. Then they add more details. Eventually they could make topic sentences out of the big picture points and write short paragraphs using the details.

 

I like this idea. WWS just teaches outlining by having students outline other people's writing first which what my dc are frustrated by.

[Farrar]

I literally showed my whole-to-parts style kid a couple of outlines and said, "You know, like this." And then had him do it. Not perfect for sure. But I felt like it was plenty to be getting on with, if that makes sense.

 

Are we talking outlining from a book or outlining before writing a paper?

 

ETA: I feel like I was just a little flip... but to me, this is the beauty of whole-to-parts learners in general. They can often just see an example and then dive in and do something and learn through doing it. Not like they get it right from the get go, but trying the whole process is better for them than having it broken down into bits and doing it little by little. And then you just do it all over again and look for gradual improvement over time.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Farrar

[nansk]

Do you have any good resources for this? I remember doing something like this in highschool and I thought that it was incredibly lame. Maybe they just taught it poorly.

 

I like this idea. WWS just teaches outlining by having students outline other people's writing first which what my dc are frustrated by.

 

I don't have any resources, but try this approach - give them a simple topic, like, say, 'The Game of Scrabble'.

 

Have them make a mind map with these high level bubbles:

1. Gameboard Layouts

2. Letter Weights

3. Rules and Scoring

4. Tournaments

 

Then add smaller, second-level bubbles growing out from each of the big bubbles.

 

This mind map will give them a pictorial overview of all they want to cover in the given topic. Have them transfer these bubbles into a 2-level outline.

 

Then add a third level with phrases or short sentences summarizing what they want to write about each of the second-level bubbles.

 

This way, they can use mind maps to create a holistic, big-picture view of their topic, and then use outlines to add in details.

 

Mind-maps will be useful for their original writing, not for summarizing another person's composition.

 

If you want them to create 1-level outlines for WWS1 passages, get them to tell you the main idea of each paragraph in the passage.

[Kat w]

Mind maps work great for my boys. It is a good starter, esp to have the visual of the "why" to outline.

 

We use mind maps here for almost everything.

Sets in their well...mind lol

 

ETA:

I read after I posted this, your DC is having trouble seeing the why of it all.

Mind mapping gives that to my boys. It sets a picture in their minds to springboard off of.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Kat w

[wapiti]

As mentioned above, I'd show them examples and also do the outlining workbook.

[LMD]

I just use the complete writer for the most part. And I found that outlines got much better when they had to write a short paper using them! Dd, 6th, does a 2 level outline and rewrites from that - from her history or science readings, one a week of about 3-4 paragraphs.

We also talk through the process a lot, because she can't do an effective main point if she doesn't have the ideas straight in her head. That's where logic comes in too.

[LEK]

As mentioned above, we are using Remedia publications outlining books and really loving them. They are providing the step by step hand holding that my dd needed to really see how the outline is created and the overall picture.