Would you do algebra based physics before calculus based?

[Janeway]

Son will need calculus based for college. I had figured that senior year of high school, he can take calculus based physics. Should I plan on him taking algebra physics before that? He will have calculus during junior year.

[regentrude]

What do you mean by "need for college"? In college, as part of his major? Or before college, to be competitive for admission?

 

I do algebra based physics as first science class in 9th grade with my kids. It is a good beginning science. It is useful to have before calc based, but not necessary; calc based courses do not require algebra based physics as a prerequisite and do not build on it, they start from scratch.

 

If he has to take calc based physics as part of his major, it may make sense to take the entire sequence at the college (there will be several semesters required, at minimum two, perhaps three). If not, you need to make sure the high school course in 12th is equivalent in depth and coverage so he does not have gaps.

 

ETA: I would, however, under no circumstances do algebra based physics the year immediately before calc based physics. The student will be so bored, because the material is very similar. I'd space it at least two years apart.

Edited June 8, 2016 by regentrude

[EKS]

My son will be taking calculus based AP physics as his first physics course.  This is because the only other physics choice his school offers is conceptual physics that is taught at an extremely slow pace--meaning they take an entire year to get through mechanics.

[JanetC]

Whether or not two years of physics makes sense really depends on the context of his four-year plan. I would definitely have a year each of chem and bio before adding a second year of physics. And, like regentrude says, physics two years in a row can be a lot of physics.

[Julie of KY]

Whether or not you do a full algebra based physics course first is up to you, but I think it is beneficial to gave been exposed to some physics concepts first so that it is not all new. This can be through textbooks, Teaching Company, or less formal reading and videos.

[JeanM]

My ds did calculus-based physics without having done algebra-based physics first. However, he did spread it out over 2 years. So he took the AP physics C mechanics exam the first year, and the AP physics C electricity & magnetism the second year. He was taking calculus along with the first year of physics, so basically he started calculus first, and then added in the physics when he was ready. I think it would be hard to do that if you were trying to fit it all in one year.

 

He currently thinks that he'll be a history major, so he doesn't necessarily need to take more physics in college.

[Luckymama]

^^^My son (cs graduate) did exactly as JeanM's: AP Physics Mechanics and AP Calculus AB concurrently junior year (the teachers worked together) and AP Physics E&M senior year.

 

The only exposure to physics topics before that came through physical science in middle school and some Science Olympiad events.

[lewelma]

DS did Algebra based physics in 8th and 9th because he was so excited about physics he did not want to wait. The course/exam he took actually had a very strong conceptual element that required long detailed essays which were much harder than the actual math. DS is interested in majoring in physics, so clearly will be taking it all again.

 

Ruth in NZ

Edited June 8, 2016 by lewelma

[Janeway]

What do you mean by "need for college"? In college, as part of his major? Or before college, to be competitive for admission?

 

I do algebra based physics as first science class in 9th grade with my kids. It is a good beginning science. It is useful to have before calc based, but not necessary; calc based courses do not require algebra based physics as a prerequisite and do not build on it, they start from scratch.

 

If he has to take calc based physics as part of his major, it may make sense to take the entire sequence at the college (there will be several semesters required, at minimum two, perhaps three). If not, you need to make sure the high school course in 12th is equivalent in depth and coverage so he does not have gaps.

 

ETA: I would, however, under no circumstances do algebra based physics the year immediately before calc based physics. The student will be so bored, because the material is very similar. I'd space it at least two years apart.

Which physics do you use then? We already started biology, but he does not like the topic. I do not mind delaying and doing the physics now and the biology the next year. 

[Janeway]

What do you mean by "need for college"? In college, as part of his major? Or before college, to be competitive for admission?

 

I do algebra based physics as first science class in 9th grade with my kids. It is a good beginning science. It is useful to have before calc based, but not necessary; calc based courses do not require algebra based physics as a prerequisite and do not build on it, they start from scratch.

 

If he has to take calc based physics as part of his major, it may make sense to take the entire sequence at the college (there will be several semesters required, at minimum two, perhaps three). If not, you need to make sure the high school course in 12th is equivalent in depth and coverage so he does not have gaps.

 

ETA: I would, however, under no circumstances do algebra based physics the year immediately before calc based physics. The student will be so bored, because the material is very similar. I'd space it at least two years apart.

Oh, also, he will need, in the future, calculus based physics as a part of his major. It would be a freshman class. So he does not need it before college and he is not planning to go for a highly competitive school. He is very smart but has Aspergers and can melt down when under stress. Ok, not just that he can meltdown, but he will meltdown under stress.

[regentrude]

Which physics do you use then?

 

 

College Physics by Knight, Jones and Field.

[regentrude]

Oh, also, he will need, in the future, calculus based physics as a part of his major. It would be a freshman class. So he does not need it before college and he is not planning to go for a highly competitive school. He is very smart but has Aspergers and can melt down when under stress. Ok, not just that he can meltdown, but he will meltdown under stress.

 

Calculus based physics at college will be a stressful class. I strongly advise you to get proper documentation for his condition so that you can put accommodations in place at the college. I do not know how lengthy the process is; you may want to keep this in mind as you approach his going off to college.

[Janeway]

Thanks! I actually just redid the process so we are ready with college board. I have a brand new, updated (says ASD now instead of Aspergers) DX and IEP for him.

[G5052]

I agree. I wouldn't do two years of physics in a row, one algebra-based and one calculus-based.

 

Although physics is a good choice for high school, I wouldn't rush to get in calculus-based physics. Getting solid math is much, much more important if he is planning a degree where he needs calculus-based physics in college.

 

I took earth science, biology, chemistry, and AP biology in high school. I wanted to take physics, but my father (a nuclear physicist) encouraged me to focus my efforts on math in high school. The physics teacher there was a disorganized mess anyway.

 

With a solid math background, I didn't find calculus-based physics to be that difficult at all, and I followed in my father's footsteps although more on the computer side. So not having physics in high school didn't hold me back.

 

Ironically both of my children have struggled with math, and neither is going into a STEM field. For them, we did algebra-based physics in high school.

[dereksurfs]

We took a physics first approach because ds14 had the math to go this route.  He is STEM directed and very interested in science.  He took algebra based physics through Clover Creek Science with Jetta Seboly who is a WTM forum member.    This turned out to be an excellent, inspiring learning experience for him and one of his favorite classes of all time.  Could he have waited to take more advanced Calculus based physics later in high school?  Of course.  But this was more than simply checking off a box of requirements for college later.  It was a discovery process exploring the science which his young brain really thrives on.  There is joy in that discovery which inspires.  Had I required him to take biology first there would be no joy as he is just not interested in it.  :tongue_smilie:

 

This Summer he is studying chemistry as he prepares to take a college chemistry DE course in the Fall.  Physics naturally paved the way in understanding chemistry as logical progression.  He is seeing this already in UC Berkeley's eChem1A course which is excellent, BTW. 

 

I agree with other about not taking algebra based physics then calculus based physics back to back.  I also don't know of anyone actually considering such a sequence.  We plan to take calculus based physics after chemistry and biology/physiology most likely in his senior year.  That may also end up being a college course at that point.  I think Regentrude actually recommended something like this in another thread:  not taking calculus based physics in high school directly followed by the same basic subject matter in college (e.g. Physics 1A).  That is probably a separate discussion and consideration regarding the pros/cons of either approach.

Edited June 11, 2016 by dereksurfs

[LisaKinVA]

Oldest took Algebra based Physics as a 9th grader, and will take Calculus-based Physics as a 12th grader.

PonyGirl will take an overview of Physics prior to taking AP Physics C (which is planned for her junior year), mostly because it will have been 5 years since she covered Physics.

PokeMan's current plan includes 2 years of Physics (9th and 12th), but that may change.  He enjoys watching learning videos, so if he watches enough Physics I may skip the introductory level and go straight to University Physics at the proper time.

[brendafromtenn]

My son, who is going to major in engineering or physics, took a similar route to "dereksurfs" son mentioned above.  My son took Biology in 9th and then took Jetta's Clover Creek Science in 10th (In Jetta's first year).  This was an EXCELLENT course and really developed his study skills and his love for physics.(Heh, Jetta :hurray: )

 

Then,when he took Chemistry in 11th, he was much more prepared for that subject, with the physics background.  And then this coming year, which will be 12th grade, he is going to do some type of Advanced Physics.  (Still working on that.......)

 

I agree, with the others about not taking two physics courses back to back.  Was a nice transition for separate with Chemistry.  

[MarkT]

My DS goes to a B&M charter which now only offers AP Physics 1 and 2. He took their Conceptual Physics class in 9th but they switched to Problem Based Learning during the year using a textbook that was not given to the students. The teacher did not understand PBL and it was quite a disaster.  He will be taking  AP Physics 1 his junior year along with AP Calc AB and regular Chemistry. He will probably take AP Physics 2 his senior year.  This should give him a strong background for Calc based Physics in college.  Next summer I may do some Calc based Physics with him as our "after-school" program.