ma23peas Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Just to let us take issue with some important ones. http://www.catholicvote.com/ Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 If it isn't meant to spark political debate then why post a video attacking Civil Rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Maybe all the Republican attack ads could be placed in one thread? I'm a little tired of the "oh, I don't want to debate you people but please watch this *very important* video" threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) No debate intended... I don't agree with an anti-welfare and anti-birth control stance. What is a poor woman supposed to do if she becomes pregnant? We can't leave people with only one option. She should be able to *keep* her baby. No one should be forced into adoption because of finances. It is just wrong. Our society should be better than that. Edited September 29, 2008 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I thought it was beautiful. I wonder if the OP wants to know if we think this violates the political speech for tax exempt status. Well, it says traditional marriage and abortion are very important, not how to vote. We know what the catholic church thinks, but it doesn't tell you whom to vote for. So I think it is safe in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 The suggestion this ad doesn't tell you who to vote for (although it is never said explicitly) is laughable and intellectually dishonest. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 It was not meant to spark political debate, I didn't ask your "opinion" of the video, I put in the subject title "Catholicvote"...I found it very inspiring and encouraging from my faith and commitment viewpoint...by putting Catholicvote in the title....one could assume that my audience is going to be those that would be coming from a Catholic point of view...meaning they hold the same values as the leaders of the church. Perhaps I should have come on and said, Pro-life, family value video ahead..very inspiring...I just assumed by putting Catholicvote in there, it would be understood..you do not agree with the Catholic position on family and life...so why would you look at the video? If you had put a video out there that said, Teachers union video on voting...inspiring... I would assume you side with the teacher's union and that you found it inspiring..it would not offend me that you found it inspiring...I may not agree with the content...and it may not inspire me but I completely give you the right to share it with others....that's all I was doing was trying to show a very inspiring piece to me..one who agrees with the Catholic leadership on family and life and feels it is important in this election...it moved me greatly and thought those that were like minded would find it encouraging as well. There are too many threads out there where folks are trying to criticize the opposite view by challenging their position...this video is there to support those who choose to support life and viewpoints consistent with the Catholic position...not to discourage those who are against it.. I am saddened that those who are inspired by this video can not celebrate this well made expression of their views without the opposition criticizing the content. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I am saddened that those who are inspired by this video can not celebrate this well made expression of their views without the opposition criticizing the content. Tara Why would you be "saddened" at finding political propaganda (definition #2) that clearly aims to influence voters to vote for a particular candidate is not met with universal celebration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 Why would you be "saddened" at finding political propaganda (definition #2) that clearly aims to influence voters to vote for a particular candidate is not met with universal celebration? Because it wasn't meant for universal celebration..I thought if I put "pro-life, pro conservative video" that would bring more of the negative debate out...hoped by putting out there not to incite debate it would keep others from commenting and just simply allow a pro-life pro-conservative video that IS inspiring for those in that political viewpoint to share....are you saying that we are not to share items that are not for the universal audience? If you see a thread asking for a prayer and you are against prayer, would you even bother reading it? This thread is not for universal celebration, it's for conservatives to share a video that is inspiring, period. Sorry that point was not made clear in the title...if you can provide a more clear title for this thread withholding any snarky ones...I will gladly change it so that it is clear this is for those who celebrate the content of the video. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKitty Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Thank you for posting the link. I am not Catholic, though I find it inspiring as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Because it wasn't meant for universal celebration..I thought if I put "pro-life, pro conservative video" that would bring more of the negative debate out...hoped by putting out there not to incite debate it would keep others from commenting and just simply allow a pro-life pro-conservative video that IS inspiring for those in that political viewpoint to share....are you saying that we are not to share items that are not for the universal audience? If you see a thread asking for a prayer and you are against prayer, would you even bother reading it? This thread is not for universal celebration, it's for conservatives to share a video that is inspiring, period. Sorry that point was not made clear in the title...if you can provide a more clear title for this thread withholding any snarky ones...I will gladly change it so that it is clear this is for those who celebrate the content of the video. Tara Because it contains *political content*. Anything with political content is up for debate. It's not the same as prayer requests, etc. Your prayer request doesn't affect the non-Christians on the board. Your vote may. That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 (edited) Because it contains *political content*. Anything with political content is up for debate. It's not the same as prayer requests, etc. Your prayer request doesn't affect the non-Christians on the board. Your vote may. That's the difference. I am sure a gay person wouldn't find it inspiring. I am a Christian, one doesn't necessarily KNOW a video is not for them. Heck the Democratic VP nominee is Catholic. Edited September 29, 2008 by Sis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Also as a Native American I find Columbus being described as "the beginning" of this country as slightly bizarre and offensive. Columbus enslaved and murdered people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asta Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Maybe all the Republican attack ads could be placed in one thread? I'm a little tired of the "oh, I don't want to debate you people but please watch this *very important* video" threads. I guess I'm missing something here: All four candidates were featured, and the film ended with a shot of a "Democratic" ballot. Traditionally, Irish-Catholic and Polish-Catholic families that immigrated to America aligned with the Democratic party (and unions). It wasn't until Roe v Wade and the "one issue voter" that you started to see Catholics leaving the Democratic party. Even today, many die-hard Catholics (and I mean DIE hard) are not single issue voters and still vote the Democratic ticket. I guess they deal with the rest of it in the confessional. ETA: the American Catholic church has always been a bit of an upstart compared to Rome; they are supposed to follow the same rules, but often do so with a wink and a nudge until lambasted by Rome. asta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 http://www.faithfulcitizenship.org/all/family_guide this mentions heroes such as Chavez and Dorothy Day-not all Catholic people interpret life issues so narrowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 This makes me think of something I was wondering about the other day.... And it's a serious question -- not meant to be snarky... How do you feel about the separation of church and state? It was put there for a reason, by the founding fathers, yet the church (and I'm not specifying which church, because many churches seem to do it) spends a great deal of time attempting to influence the voters and put "their candidate" into office. Just...my thought for the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ma23peas Posted September 30, 2008 Author Share Posted September 30, 2008 This makes me think of something I was wondering about the other day.... And it's a serious question -- not meant to be snarky... How do you feel about the separation of church and state? It was put there for a reason, by the founding fathers, yet the church (and I'm not specifying which church, because many churches seem to do it) spends a great deal of time attempting to influence the voters and put "their candidate" into office. Just...my thought for the day! Kelly, not at all snarky! The founding fathers called for separation of church and state..our society has skewed that to the point that we forget our founding fathers views on it..and many history books are rewritten because of it... http://park.org/Guests/Educate/HTALK/church.htm It will get you thinking. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camibami Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Don't paint us all with this brush, please. http://www.amazon.com/Catholic-Support-Asking-Questions-Barack/dp/159020204X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222734698&sr=1-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer in NH Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Thanks for the link..i loved the video. I am Catholic...and do follow the Church's teaching.. For what it is worth: Sen. Biden may be catholic, but he is not allowed to partake of the Eucharist because of his support for anti-life legislation. I don't really see how any Catholic could get upset about that video. It is not a suprise what the Church teaches. as for Separation of church and state, All the founders said was that the Governement would not establish a religion..not that religion had to be dismissed or outlawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I want to address some folks who were listed on the page you referenced: Benjamin Franklin was raised as an Episcopalian but was a Deist as an adult. From: Rick Shenkman, "An Interview with Jon Butler ... Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?", posted 20 December 2004 on History News Network website (http://hnn.us/articles/9144.html; viewed 30 November 2005): Mr. Butler, Dean of the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences at Yale University, is the author of Awash in a Sea of Faith: Christianizing the American People (Harvard University Press, 1990). This interview was conducted by HNN editor Rick Shenkman for The Learning Channel series, "Myth America," which aired several years ago... [interviewer:] Let's go through some of [the Founding Fathers]... Benjamin Franklin? [Jon Butler:] Benjamin Franklin was even less religious than Washington and Jefferson. Franklin was an egotist. Franklin was someone who believed far more in himself than he could possibly have believed have believed in the divinity of Christ, which he didn't. He believed in such things as the transmigration of souls. That is that human, that humans came into being in another existence and he may have had occult beliefs. He was a Mason who was deeply interested in Masonic secrets and there are some signs that Franklin believed in the mysteries of Occultism though he never really wrote much about it and never really said much about it. Franklin is another writer whom you can read all you want to read in the many published volumes of Franklin's writings and read very little about religion. ...The principal Founding Fathers--Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin--were in fact deeply suspicious of a European pattern of governmental involvement in religion. They were deeply concerned about an involvement in religion because they saw government as corrupting religion. Ministers who were paid by the state and paid by the government didn't pay any attention to their parishes. They didn't care about their parishioners. They could have, they sold their parishes. They sold their jobs and brought in a hireling to do it and they wandered off to live somewhere else and they didn't need to pay attention to their parishioners because the parishioners weren't paying them. The state was paying them. ............ There's a whole website about the religion of the founding fathers: http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/franklin_steiner/presidents.html Tons of stuff there with references...more than I could read in one evening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrid Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'd expect the Catholic church to make their views known. I just wonder why they were never in a bigger uproar over the war in Iraq. Perhaps there aren't enough Catholics there? Anytime you put babies and families hugging, then set it to nice music it seems inspiring. Regardless of what kind of family one has, family is important to many people. I just don't think the issues the Catholic church thinks are THE most important are those issues that necessarily effect families the hardest. I'm thinking right about now a lot of people are sweating bullets over the economy. Nothing says sucky family life like not having a job and food on the table. On the other hand, what do I care if Joe and John wanna get married? Ugh.. Among the many reasons I left the Catholic church. Wendy, I could have written this post! You took the words right out from my mouth. astrid (who, at 10:00 pm, is just getting home NOW from a VERY long day of working with those poor, urban moms who do not, in fact, have those rosy family lives--- they are burdened by lack of education, many responsibilities and dwindling funds for the social programs that they depend on.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsmamainva Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 astrid (who, at 10:00 pm, is just getting home NOW from a VERY long day of working with those poor, urban moms who do not, in fact, have those rosy family lives--- they are burdened by lack of education, many responsibilities and dwindling funds for the social programs that they depend on.) :grouphug: Thank you for what you're doing!! We need more of you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLHCO Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Thank you, I liked the video and I'm not Catholic. I don't understand why anyone is shocked over the values held by official Catholic teachings being promoted. This video represents an official stance they honestly believe and of course they are trying to remind others that claim to believe in the teachings of the church, what the stance is of the religion they claim. Of course they are going to show it in an inspiring way. The whole point is to inspire people who hold these values to vote those values, not to change the minds of non-Catholics or even those who are Catholic in name only, cherry picking what they like. I remember when the Pope came out a year or so ago and confirmed the church's teachings that the Catholic church is the only true church. Many Protestants were all uptight about it. I was stunned and how silly their "offense" was. I mean, he's the Pope of the Catholic Church. He wouldn't be much of a Pope if he didn't think that. I was raised among large numbers of very traditional Hispanic Catholics. My grandparents took it very seriously, with my grandmother having 14 children! Family has a very strong meaning in your average, traditional Hispanic Catholic family. My fourth cousins would welcome us in because were were "family". If you hated them, they were still "family" and that was sacred above all else to many of them. The second generation today are largely Catholic in name only. They simply hold party lines without even stopping to think if their views have become incompatable with the religion they claim or the other way around. I appreciate a movie that reminds them of what their church teachings stand for. I have no problem with someone leaving the church, as my mother did, for personal convictions, but if they cannot abide by this, perhaps it's time to rethink their claim to the religion. The most that can maybe be said is that more clarity in the post would be appreciated next time as to whom the content is directed toward, which in this case was toward the choir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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