12 year old girl in FL arrested for pinching boy on rear end

[catz]

But this isn't about your niece. You are taking the harassment your niece endured and tracing it back to butt-pinching. For all we know this was an innocent, one-time thing. It is NOT necessarily part of a pattern of escalating behaviors.

 

 

In this version of the story the "pincher" herself says "pinching someone's butt and laughing at their reaction is a game that a lot of kids play at the school. She said she thought it was a joke."

 

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida-12-year-old-arrested-for-pinching-classmates-butt/

 

To me that implies repeated, unchecked behavior.   I do think it's highly unlikely an arrest would have occurred if there wasn't more to this story.  However, we are all speculating about that.

 

I don't think anyone is calling this girl a pervert.  But I don't see why the feelings of the pincher should be higher priority than of the pinchee.  Repeated bullying like this IS publicly shaming for the victim.  So although I do not advocate regular arrests, if a school is not taking care of business, I can see how it would escalate. 

 

Just today this story went up locally.  A 7th grader shoved around and injured a teacher for taking his phone.  This is a HUGE issue in our district right now.  Teachers have their hands tied, schools don't react, and kids are not taught boundaries.  This substitute teacher had to report to police on her own.  The school did nothing.  And plenty of parents will scream a teacher should never touch a student's phone.

 

http://www.twincities.com/2016/03/25/st-paul-substitute-teacher-student-repeatedly-shoved-me-when-i-took-his-cellphone/?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#link_time=1458948418

 

 

Edited March 26, 2016 by WoolySocks

[Pen]

I didn't say it was as simple as intent. I said that both intent and perception were considerations when it came to consequences.

 

 

In the United States, the general rule is that ignorance of the law is no defense.

 

 

Legally, requisite "intent" with regard to battery, means the intent to do the action, in this case the intent to touch (pinch the butt of) another without that person's consent.

 

There was neither any justification such as a medical procedure, nor was there permission. So legally it appears that it was in fact clearly a battery, regardless of the emotional states (perceptions or goals--leaving out the word "intent" because you are using it in a common ordinary sense to mean something like the desired result, rather than the deliberateness of the act) of the persons involved.

 

In other words, as in the examples that I gave, that someone may have pulled a chair out from under someone else only meaning it in jest  and not intending any injury, does not mean they will not be liable in earnest for any harm or injury done, or for the person seeking legal recourse even if there was no serious injury. It would be different if there were no legal intent in the sense of no deliberate act to pull the chair out at all, such as one person slipped and as a fluke crashed into someone else's chair in such a way that it pulled out from under the other person.

 

And, btw, it may also be that we as parents could be responsible for intentional actions done to others by our minor children, even if no harmful result was wished, just as we can be responsible if they hit a baseball through someone's window, though they did not mean to do so. And this can be so even if you do not know that you or your children can be held legally responsible despite lack of desiring a bad result.

 

 

In one of the articles on this, maybe not the one linked, the girl said that this was a common thing that was done at that school, apparently by her and her friends, and maybe others also, to pinch random people on the butt to see how they would react. It seems clearly not to be a one time thing, apparently several kids were targeted but only the one boy went to the school authorities to complain. And I guess she now knows some more variety in how people may react. Someone else may have slugged her. Or worse. Maybe more violence, or maybe would have taken it to be a sexual come-on. So maybe she is lucky to have learned the way she learned that it is not okay. And now other kids know too.

 

 

 

As to what kids would know, should know, I have no idea what is true for most schools, but keeping hands to oneself and not bugging other people was covered in my son's school (not a great school by any means) on the first day of Kindy and repeated a number of times.

[Pen]

 And as for butt-pinching being touching someone's private areas - it's no more touching privates than butt-slapping, which sports teams do all the time (as well as friends who tease each other). It's not even in the realm of grabbing breasts or penises. 

 

 

Ondreeuh, I think you are confused in thinking that battery involves touching "privates." The girl was accused of battery, not sexual assault. Where she touched the boy is not relevant with regard to battery.

 

What is different about members of a sport team slapping each other on the butts, backs, or whatever, they are doing, maybe a punch on the upper arm, jump in the air and knuckle bump, various possible things that would involve touch, is that they are doing so presumptively willingly, with requisite (albeit implied) consent. 

[LucyStoner]

But this isn't about your niece. You are taking the harassment your niece endured and tracing it back to butt-pinching. For all we know this was an innocent, one-time thing. It is NOT necessarily part of a pattern of escalating behaviors.

 

When you twist what I say, it just becomes a straw man argument. It really feels like if anyone is not 100% with you, that you will stretch what they say to make them sound like they are 100% against you, yet there is no such dichotomy. There is a spectrum of beliefs and opinions, and I am not on the far end. You like to place me there because it's easier, much like many politicians do to their opponents to make their own arguments look stronger. Instead of responding to actual examples I gave (picking someone up), you twisted it into picking someone a lot smaller than you up and refusing to put them down. Not the same thing. And as for butt-pinching being touching someone's private areas - it's no more touching privates than butt-slapping, which sports teams do all the time (as well as friends who tease each other). It's not even in the realm of grabbing breasts or penises. You are saying that I believe those things are OK and thus I am out of line. I did NOT say those were OK - straw man right there.

 

I am not even sure what you mean by your last line - OK maybe some kids won't stop when called out, but does that mean that they shouldn't even be given the opportunity? They should just be publicly shamed and labeled a pervert at the first offense? How on earth does that help things?

You are committing the same crappy reasoning of which you are accusing me.

 

This is not about my niece. Do not minimize my opinions by trying to cast them as the product of just one anecdote or some sort of personal anger. That is hardly my only experience with school harassment and bullying. Still much of what you clearly said was a gray area is EXACTLY part of what happened to my niece and happens to so many others who don't welcome it or see it as game every day in American schools.

 

My perspective in this issue is about respecting people's bodily autonomy and teaching children, yes even 12 year olds, to do the same. Period. Bullying and harassment (of many kinds) are serious problems in our culture and schools. And they thrive because of a culture that says over and over again in countless ways that most of the time it's not really a big deal. It is not exactly like kids everywhere face legal ramifications for touching people's bodies. Nor do I think they should in all but the most egregious situations. I'm not saying arrest them all. I am saying that we need to teach our kids to both expect body autonomy and respect the bodily autonomy of others. What is so bad about that? Nothing. And maybe it would lead to a lower frequency of more serious issues later on.

 

Please try to see the nuance of my words and not make huge exaggerations about what I said.

 

*Nowhere did I say that kids who do something inappropriate at a very young age should be labelled perverts.

 

*apologizing, admitting what you did, facing some sort of consequence from the school is not "public shaming". It's teaching kids to take responsibility for their actions and to try and empathize with the person they touched without welcome.

 

*Being on a sports team where you slap other people's butts is, as long as it is mutually agreeable, a form of consent. Playing a mutual game is a form of consent unless it's revoked. Being in the same class or on the same bus is not a form of consent.

 

*I did not say you thought it was ok to grab someone's penis or breasts. That said, you did put over the clothes touching and picking someone up with out consent in a "gray area". You made a specific distinction between under and over the clothes touching. That is your opinion. I don't think you are out of line, I think you are wrong. Much the same way you think I am wrong. The example I gave - someone picking up a smaller (generally female) student and not putting them down when he or she objects is the most common example of picking someone up at school that I have observed as a student, volunteer and parent. So that is what I went to because it's the most concerning and to point out that there are definitely instances where it is not a gray area.

 

*Yes, touching butts without consent is on par with grabbing a breast or snapping a bra strap or similar. It may or may not be sexual harrassment but it is a violation of someone's body and counts as assault or battery in many jurisdictions. And while it's not comparable to grabbing a crotch, it's not much less. If a man other than my husband intentionally touches my rear I wouldn't take that any better than him groping my breast. Regardless of his intent. As an adult woman I also have the right to stop him (a right which I have exerted many times when a young person). Why do we deny that right to children in school?

 

*We do know that this was not a one time thing at that school. The girl herself said as much. That perhaps no one made an issue of it until this boy's mom didn't make it ok. Also, in case you didn't read the whole thread this thread has shifted to discussion of things outside of that article.

 

If your kids don't go to school, maybe you don't know how rough it can be these days. Still, please realize that disagreeing with your attitude doesn't make my opinions or arguments faulty. It is not extreme to support bodily autonomy, full stop. Nor do I think your view is extreme...I think it is probably the opinion held by most Americans.

 

What would you do or want done if your child came home and expressed that another child had touched him in a way that seriously bothered him? I don't think you would have the opinion of the girl's father who basically made fun of the boy and attacked the mother's parenting. I think you'd want to protect your son and you wouldn't be happy if the principal used some of the reasoning you have on this thread. It may seem harmless but when it's a child you care about, trust me, feelings shift.

Edited March 26, 2016 by LucyStoner

[SparklyUnicorn]

you were working later than when you were in school.  they could have enacted things in the meantime.  it seems like my olders had stuff in school.

 

Not sure what you mean.

[Elfknitter.#]

In the United States, the general rule is that ignorance of the law is no defense.

 

 

Legally, requisite "intent" with regard to battery, means the intent to do the action, in this case the intent to touch (pinch the butt of) another without that person's consent.

 

There was neither any justification such as a medical procedure, nor was there permission. So legally it appears that it was in fact clearly a battery, regardless of the emotional states (perceptions or goals--leaving out the word "intent" because you are using it in a common ordinary sense to mean something like the desired result, rather than the deliberateness of the act) of the persons involved.

 

In other words, as in the examples that I gave, that someone may have pulled a chair out from under someone else only meaning it in jest and not intending any injury, does not mean they will not be liable in earnest for any harm or injury done, or for the person seeking legal recourse even if there was no serious injury. It would be different if there were no legal intent in the sense of no deliberate act to pull the chair out at all, such as one person slipped and as a fluke crashed into someone else's chair in such a way that it pulled out from under the other person.

 

And, btw, it may also be that we as parents could be responsible for intentional actions done to others by our minor children, even if no harmful result was wished, just as we can be responsible if they hit a baseball through someone's window, though they did not mean to do so. And this can be so even if you do not know that you or your children can be held legally responsible despite lack of desiring a bad result.

 

 

In one of the articles on this, maybe not the one linked, the girl said that this was a common thing that was done at that school, apparently by her and her friends, and maybe others also, to pinch random people on the butt to see how they would react. It seems clearly not to be a one time thing, apparently several kids were targeted but only the one boy went to the school authorities to complain. And I guess she now knows some more variety in how people may react. Someone else may have slugged her. Or worse. Maybe more violence, or maybe would have taken it to be a sexual come-on. So maybe she is lucky to have learned the way she learned that it is not okay. And now other kids know too.

 

 

 

As to what kids would know, should know, I have no idea what is true for most schools, but keeping hands to oneself and not bugging other people was covered in my son's school (not a great school by any means) on the first day of Kindy and repeated a number of times.

The bolded cannot be said enough. It is the basis of any harassment training.

[LucyStoner]

"I don't know why kids in a school setting should have to put up with something I'd report to the police if I were walking down the street and some stranger did to me."

 

I can't bold on iPad. Just thinking about this though. No way would it ever be okay, and I'd tell them to knock it off in the strongest terms possible. Don't get me wrong. But would I report a pinch on the butt to the police? No. I don't think it rises to the level of criminal. Harassing, inappropriate, all sorts of things, but not criminal. The police are not the solution to every problem, in my opinion.

Would I report a single pinch to the police? Probably not unless dude was following me. Though I'd count on his embrassment to induce him not to call the police when I twisted his arm around and told him off. In a world where I've seen full grown men ogling 12-14 year old girls (and who are clearly not close to 18) and where my own teen years were spent dodging way too much "attention", I just don't take kindly to men who feel that it's ok to grab at women and girls. They weren't born that way. Someone raised them to think that was ok. Which is why consent is such an important concept to teach. And as long as not everyone embraces the absolute need for consent, we really do have to teach our children how to stand up for themselves in a variety of ways.

[Pen]

 

My perspective in this issue is about respecting people's bodily autonomy and teaching children, yes even 12 year olds, to do the same. Period. Bullying and harassment (of many kinds) are serious problems in our culture and schools. And they thrive because of a culture that says over and over again in countless ways that most of the time it's not really a big deal. It is not exactly like kids everywhere face legal ramifications for touching people's bodies. Nor do I think they should in all but the most egregious situations. I'm not saying arrest them all. I am saying that we need to teach our kids to both expect body autonomy and respect the bodily autonomy of others. What is so bad about that? Nothing. And maybe it would lead to a lower frequency of more serious issues later on.

 

 

*Nowhere did I say that kids who do something inappropriate at a very young age should be labelled perverts.

 

*apologizing, admitting what you did, facing some sort of consequence from the school is not "public shaming". It's teaching kids to take responsibility for their actions and to try and empathize with the person they touched without welcome.

 

*Being on a sports team where you slap other people's butts is, as long as it is mutually agreeable, a form of consent. Playing a mutual game is a form of consent unless it's revoked. Being in the same class or on the same bus is not a form of consent.

 

*I did not say you thought it was ok to grab someone's penis or breasts. That said, you did put over the clothes touching and picking someone up with out consent in a "gray area". You made a specific distinction between under and over the clothes touching. That is your opinion. I don't think you are out of line, I think you are wrong. Much the same way you think I am wrong.   

 

 

This makes it sound like "a some say Tomaytoes, some say Tomahtoes," sort of distinction.

 

There may be different legal rules in different places, but everywhere I have lived in the United States, legally, so far as I know, you are correct and the other view is incorrect.

 

Grabbing someone's penis or breast, may be a higher class misdemeanor, or a felony instead of a misdemeanor depending on the place and situation. It does not make a lesser misdemeanor "grey."  I suppose this is similar to the idea that someone deliberately crashing a car into a pedestrian obviously seems worse than someone merely running a stop sign. But the latter does not become "grey" in general simply because it is a less heinous illegal action.

 

What seems to be "grey" is, so far as I can tell, people's common belief, knowledge and understandings.   Perhaps like many people in places with jaywalking rules seem to think that it would be "nice" to cross at the corner or in crosswalks, but that jaywalking is generally okay, kind of a grey area, just because in many places that have rules against jaywalking it still is very rarely something that anyone gets a ticket for. 

 

I also don't think that all 12 year olds who pinch another kid's butt should be arrested, but maybe if it helps people learn what is and what is not actually in the "grey" area it will be helpful that it happened and got into the news and was mentioned here.

[kwg]

I'm not sure why it is so certain that the pinch is considered sexual harassment. A pinch on the butt? Isn't that just something kids do because they are copying others? My friends and I would pinch boys in a crowded area for fun at age 12 because the guys couldn't figure out who did it. It was a joke, and definitely not done for a thrill or to harass the guys. Having to give an apology to the entire class would have been beyond mortifying and would have made me feel like everyone considered me a criminal.

Well but the joke's not funny.    When I was in elementary school I loved school, I took it seriously :001_tt1:   I think it was kind of an escape from home.  I always did my homework, paid attention, etc.  I was not the type of kid to cause trouble iow.   The only times I can remember missing school was when we had lice and when my dad would come over so drunk and volatile that we would have to leave for the night.   We did not get sick often. My parents were divorced so no one had time for that  :)

 

At some point my babysitter molested me.  My mother walked in on a minor but still concerning incident and said I should not do things like that and I needed to be a better example to my sister.  I was embarrassed and never told her about any of the other stuff going on.  I am just explaining my mindset a little bc in the 5th grade (11 yo about) we moved and a group of boys had that same MO you are describing.

 

They would walk by in a big group and grab or pinch my rear.  I never knew what to do.  Often I did not know who it was anyway. I think it triggered like a shame cycle  or something.    I froze.  I thought it was my fault, that I was like a magnet or something for this kind of crap.  I had no idea that grabbing butts was a normal thing, or funny, or whatver else you want to call it.   It did not feel that way to me, I just felt embarrassed.   They figured out how to get at me from my desk and that I was not going to tell so then it really was always. I was pretty miserable and it got to the point where I could not have people walk behind me without flinching. Then they made fun of me for that.   I guess it does look odd, that exaggerated startle reflex.  Whenever I think of "steeling myself" I remember how I felt  trying to stop myself from jumping just because someone was walking behind me. :glare:  

 

It never occurred to me they could have been playing a game until this thread.  Jesus.  I suppose it is possible that it was a kind of class game. What a gross one though. 

 

FF to the next year, I had a new teacher and I think she smelled a rat early on bc she moved my desk right next to her's and put a girl behind me.  Good ole Mrs. S.   :001_tt1:  My year was much better and I had no issues and school was back to being a cool place.   SHe had better control of the class and I am sure that helped.   At the end of the year, a different boy not in this group grabbed my butt and I seriously burst into tears and could not stop sobbing.   I was inconsolable and  mortified at my reaction (I hated to stand out) and that people knew. But I thought it was going to happen all over again  :sad:

 

I am not saying these boys grew up to be in jail or perverts.  I do not think that time period was life changing for me or anything like that - I have experienced worse.  But it does seem so unnecessary.  And for a long time it was hard for me to look back on that time period without feeling ashamed that I let them do all that just like with the babysitter you know? And frustrated on why I didnt say anything ever. But too I was only 11 and really did not know how to deal with all that. 

 

The video says the game at this girls' school is to grab strangers in the hallway and watch their reaction. I can imagine what mine would have been.

My middle schooler hasn't been raised in the middle school culture so I'm not sure how he would react. If he was embarrassed, I would definitely discuss the two sides to every interaction - perception and intent. And while his perception of the event is valid, intention DOES matter. Someone who touches him with the intent to intimidate, harass, or embarrass is definitely in the wrong, but someone who thinks it is a harmless joke needs to be given a little grace and set straight without overreacting. It's a hugely important Life Skill to learn to shrug off minor embarrassments and give people the benefit of the doubt instead of protesting every perceived injustice as "not fair!" Stand up straight, say, "That wasn't cool," and don't make a big deal of it unless it becomes a pattern. (Unfortunately necessary disclaimer- I am only talking about minor behavior that is in that gray zone like picking someone up, hugging, pinching cheeks, ruffling hair- not for blatantly offensive behavior like groping someone's body or sticking a hand under someone's clothes).

 

In no universe can I imagine a group of middle schoolers asking for verbal consent before touching. Is it really necessary to get consent before putting your arm around someone? Hugging them? Are permission slips in order (time-stamped, because consent can always be revoked)? Note that I am not saying "anything goes," just that getting explicit consent before any kind of touch is unrealistic. People are going to use their judgment to anticipate what is going to be perceived with the spirit a touch is intended. Some people will perceive it differently, but that doesn't automatically make the toucher WRONG and BAD. (Of course there will be people who do have bad intentions- but there's a difference between someone who hugs someone out of what they perceive to be mutual affection and someone who hugs to exert dominance).

 

I teach my kids to use their best judgment, but that they can't control anyone else's interpretations of their actions. Everyone has their own backgrounds, previous experiences, judgments, and sensitivities, and often it's really not about you at all.

 

Although I respect the rights of others to feel differently, I do think that some go too far in criminalizing childish behavior.

 

ETA: I just asked my 8th grader what he would do, and he rolled his eyes. He wouldn't do anything but tell them to stop.

 

 I would have loved to see it as a harmless joke! It is easy to say that but how was I supposed to do that?  And why? So they (or it sounds like you) could have their fun?  That is where I get cranky about it. I mean, it is a simple thing to say keep the butt grabbing out of class. Grab all the butts you want outside of school. Leave people alone you dont know well enough to invite home  <_<  I did not ask to have that reaction every time someone grabbed me but I also cant imagine that I am the only kid who ever felt that way. I am nobody special, just a regular person. 

 

WoolySocks, on 25 Mar 2016 - 2:02 PM, said:

 

.......... But I'm also in favor of schools and parents sending strong messages about individuals having autonomy in regards to their own bodies, in particular a personal part of their body. .........

 

 

I think this would have been a better lesson for us all than the intention thing you mentioned earlier honestly.  The intention thing sounds more like you are saying "I want to do what I want to do and so sorry you feel bad about it but that is on you, I can't control how you react to my fun. " which sounds ....unkind.  I was a kid too and really did not need that.  I am baffled that you would think it was ok, normal, or fun for kids to behave that way still, as an adult.

 

On the surface calling the police seems off the hook to me. It was the mother that wanted it; the school had suspended the girl so that sounds like they were dealing with it at least on a punishment level.  SOmeone mentioned the school to prison pipeline and it does remind me of that.  I watched the video and neither the girl or dad seem to think it was a big deal. I can see wanting them to get that if it was my kid they were bothering. I hope her diversion program includes something about respecting other people. 

[ondreeuh]

Well but the joke's not funny.    When I was in elementary school I loved school, I took it seriously :001_tt1:   I think it was kind of an escape from home.  I always did my homework, paid attention, etc.  I was not the type of kid to cause trouble iow.   The only times I can remember missing school was when we had lice and when my dad would come over so drunk and volatile that we would have to leave for the night.   We did not get sick often. My parents were divorced so no one had time for that  :)

 

At some point my babysitter molested me.  My mother walked in on a minor but still concerning incident and said I should not do things like that and I needed to be a better example to my sister.  I was embarrassed and never told her about any of the other stuff going on.  I am just explaining my mindset a little bc in the 5th grade (11 yo about) we moved and a group of boys had that same MO you are describing.

 

They would walk by in a big group and grab or pinch my rear.  I never knew what to do.  Often I did not know who it was anyway. I think it triggered like a shame cycle  or something.    I froze.  I thought it was my fault, that I was like a magnet or something for this kind of crap.  I had no idea that grabbing butts was a normal thing, or funny, or whatver else you want to call it.   It did not feel that way to me, I just felt embarrassed.   They figured out how to get at me from my desk and that I was not going to tell so then it really was always. I was pretty miserable and it got to the point where I could not have people walk behind me without flinching. Then they made fun of me for that.   I guess it does look odd, that exaggerated startle reflex.  Whenever I think of "steeling myself" I remember how I felt  trying to stop myself from jumping just because someone was walking behind me. :glare:  

 

It never occurred to me they could have been playing a game until this thread.  Jesus.  I suppose it is possible that it was a kind of class game. What a gross one though. 

 

FF to the next year, I had a new teacher and I think she smelled a rat early on bc she moved my desk right next to her's and put a girl behind me.  Good ole Mrs. S.   :001_tt1:  My year was much better and I had no issues and school was back to being a cool place.   SHe had better control of the class and I am sure that helped.   At the end of the year, a different boy not in this group grabbed my butt and I seriously burst into tears and could not stop sobbing.   I was inconsolable and  mortified at my reaction (I hated to stand out) and that people knew. But I thought it was going to happen all over again  :sad:

 

I am not saying these boys grew up to be in jail or perverts.  I do not think that time period was life changing for me or anything like that - I have experienced worse.  But it does seem so unnecessary.  And for a long time it was hard for me to look back on that time period without feeling ashamed that I let them do all that just like with the babysitter you know? And frustrated on why I didnt say anything ever. But too I was only 11 and really did not know how to deal with all that. 

 

The video says the game at this girls' school is to grab strangers in the hallway and watch their reaction. I can imagine what mine would have been.

 

 I would have loved to see it as a harmless joke! It is easy to say that but how was I supposed to do that?  And why? So they (or it sounds like you) could have their fun?  That is where I get cranky about it. I mean, it is a simple thing to say keep the butt grabbing out of class. Grab all the butts you want outside of school. Leave people alone you dont know well enough to invite home  <_<  I did not ask to have that reaction every time someone grabbed me but I also cant imagine that I am the only kid who ever felt that way. I am nobody special, just a regular person. 

 

WoolySocks, on 25 Mar 2016 - 2:02 PM, said:

 

.......... But I'm also in favor of schools and parents sending strong messages about individuals having autonomy in regards to their own bodies, in particular a personal part of their body. .........

 

 

I think this would have been a better lesson for us all than the intention thing you mentioned earlier honestly.  The intention thing sounds more like you are saying "I want to do what I want to do and so sorry you feel bad about it but that is on you, I can't control how you react to my fun. " which sounds ....unkind.  I was a kid too and really did not need that.  I am baffled that you would think it was ok, normal, or fun for kids to behave that way still, as an adult.

 

On the surface calling the police seems off the hook to me. It was the mother that wanted it; the school had suspended the girl so that sounds like they were dealing with it at least on a punishment level.  SOmeone mentioned the school to prison pipeline and it does remind me of that.  I watched the video and neither the girl or dad seem to think it was a big deal. I can see wanting them to get that if it was my kid they were bothering. I hope her diversion program includes something about respecting other people. 

 

:crying:  I am sorry you went through all of that. And thank you for opening my eyes to one way it could affect someone. I still think this issue should have first been dealt with by educating kids instead of rushing to call the police, but I can see why the family reacted strongly. And thank you for explaining your POV without being condescending - it's much easier to listen to.

[gardenmom5]

Well but the joke's not funny.    

it got to the point where I could not have people walk behind me without flinching. Then they made fun of me for that.   I guess it does look odd, that exaggerated startle reflex.  Whenever I think of "steeling myself" I remember how I felt  trying to stop myself from jumping just because someone was walking behind me. :glare:  

 

 I would have loved to see it as a harmless joke!  . 

 

btdt- I forgot about the flinch reflex whenever someone touched (or was in close proximity to) my back . . . even years after they stopped.  even dh if I wasn't expecting it.  it took me years to overcome that automatic reaction and associate my back being touched with something pleasant.

I confronted a couple girls who "thought it was a harmless joke".  confrontation wasn't my thing - but I really let them have it, and when they realized it was NOT a joke, let alone harmless, they did stop.  they were THE exception.

 

:crying:  I am sorry you went through all of that. And thank you for opening my eyes to one way it could affect someone. I still think this issue should have first been dealt with by educating kids instead of rushing to call the police, but I can see why the family reacted strongly. And thank you for explaining your POV without being condescending - it's much easier to listen to.

 

how do you know they didn't?  some kids are too arrogant to stop, no matter how much "education" on the subject they receive.  and if they're confronted?. . . some of them are inspired to do MORE.

Edited March 27, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Pen]

:crying:  I am sorry you went through all of that. And thank you for opening my eyes to one way it could affect someone. I still think this issue should have first been dealt with by educating kids instead of rushing to call the police, but I can see why the family reacted strongly. And thank you for explaining your POV without being condescending - it's much easier to listen to.

 

 

I also think education would be the better way to go. But I am not sure what sort of education would work. Do you have any sense of what sort of education would have worked for you and your friends?

[LucyStoner]

Nm

Edited March 28, 2016 by LucyStoner

[LucyStoner]

It just feels like everything has gotten so pc and needs the police. It doesn't. I shudder to think what might have happened to me in elementary school. I was the one threatening to kiss the boys if they didn't leave us alone. It only took one kiss on one boy. (Of course that was the age when it was gross.) But I was the defender of girls. I probably would be suspended today and labeled a sex offender of something.

This girl is not going on the sex offender registry and diversion means she won't have any record.

 

Don't blow this out of proportion because you think the incident was blown out of proportion. It's not like school arrest for this is common. It's news because it's fairly rare. I don't think that she should have been arrested either if it was a one time thing but we really don't have the full story.

Edited March 28, 2016 by LucyStoner