Would you opt a young dyslexic out of foreign language?

[FairProspects]

Our private school includes foreign language for grades K-12. For NT kids, I consider that a huge asset, but for my dyslexic boys, it presents some concerns. I opted ds out of Spanish this year and he got a study hall instead, which has been huge in helping him keep up with the various output assignments. Now I'm wondering if we send younger ds to the same school next year if I should also opt him out of Spanish. I think he would enjoy the general language exposure and it is just conversational Spanish with cultural information, but a study hall might be vital to his success in keeping up with the regular reading/writing work that takes a dyslexic longer too. This is for upper elementary grades, not junior high or high school credit. What would you do?

[Lecka]

Personally I would do the study hall so that there would be time after school for free time or another activity.

 

Could be take the language his second year?

 

If you think he will not have much homework, then I don't have a strong opinion.

 

It is working out really well for my 5th grader to have a study period instead of playing an instrument, it really is letting him get a lot done at school, and that time directly adds to his time after school.

 

I think if I thought he was just sitting around, I wouldn't like it. But it is nice for him and he has said he is glad I met him do it.

 

But it is his choice coming out of having homework in 4th grade, and he has little interest in playing an instrument.

 

I think you could see if your son is really interested in taking Spanish. If he is, that is different, too.

[PeterPan]

That's tough!  Here's the problem.  I think the study hall is valuable *and* the conversational spanish is valuable.  In general, I think conversational is the way to go with our kids, and I don't think colleges are going to be quite as forgiving on the skipping language thing.  I think it's a hurdle they'll HAVE to deal with, even if we could, in all reasonableness, skip it for high school.  It's the college thing that makes it a problem.  Or maybe there's evidence it won't be?  I see different things at each college.  Some have language as part of their core and waive it if you have 3 years of high school.  I'm guessing for some majors it won't matter, say for engineering or a BS.  

 

I think if the program is challenging enough that they need the study hall, you'll probably have to go that way, like Lecka says, sigh.  But if they can scrape by, then obviously it would be nice.  But not so valuable as to be worth creating stress and unhappiness, since it *is* something that can be done later.

[Pen]

Is Spanish the only option to opt out of in order to get a study hall?

[Lecka]

I am going to add, this year my son's classroom teacher has wanted to work very hard on my son being a confident student and having a can-do attitude and taking more responsibility.

 

She thinks he does not see himself as capably as he ought to.

 

So this has been a priority this year, for him to feel like he is doing a good job.

 

He doesn't feel like he is doing a good job when he is stressed and doesn't have time. And, for him things can just take longer for him. So, he needs the time.

 

The other thing is that he is with just a handful of kids not playing an instrument, so he gets personal attention from the teacher then and he is a kid who does better when he has a little more time with a teacher taking an interest in him. So this gives that time.

 

I do wish he was playing an instrument, but he has promised to strongly consider choir when he gets to middle school, and he liked a middle school choir performance that came to his school recently. So I do think there is still a chance for music for him in the future.

 

The flip side is that sometimes kids don't want to be different, or interpret something in a negative way, like it is a negative. If your son would feel that way, it could be negative even if on paper and in practice it works out. If your son feels like you don't think he can do it, that makes it poor even if it does go well.

 

My son is a lot more comfortable with doing some things different compared to 2 years ago, when he did not want to do anything different. Now he is fine, in a good and positive way, for some things, and in some other areas he is a lot more confident. He is more confident socially this year than he has ever been.

 

He is kind-of that kid who is starting to be held back more by executive function weaknesses than by academics, and they think (and I agree) that looking at those areas and getting him some success and some positive feelings there will do a lot to help him. He is kind-of the kid where he does great working math problems on his white board (they hold up white boards as they work problems for the teacher to see) but then maybe he gets a D in math bc he can't manage to turn in his homework bc he doesn't know where it is. He was also still working on math facts but recently he completed their computer math facts program, all the way through division. (He has improved recently.)

 

So anyway -- if he has a good experience in school and feels capable and has a track record of doing well ------- that is what we think is going to help him the most right now.

 

I think for someone with a different mentality about school and better able to keep track of things or able to do things a little faster, it would not be necessary.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Lecka

[FairProspects]

Is Spanish the only option to opt out of in order to get a study hall?

 

Yes. I don't want to opt him out of any other specialists (PE, library, etc.).

[1shortmomto4]

Never mind.  I don't think my educational philosophy fits in here.

Edited March 6, 2016 by 1shortmomto4

[FairProspects]

Gosh, sure seems like your ds is going to be heavy loaded with work to need a study hall at the age of 10.  Ack!

 

 

Fwiw, I think the workload is age appropriate but with a dyslexic/dysgraphic who has *extremely* slow processing speed it takes him at least twice as long to complete any work. That extra time has to come from somewhere. He is given plenty of accommodations at school, including extra time or extended due dates, but the study hall gives him some built in breathing room during the day so that he can do extra curricular activities afterschool, have less homework, and more time for downtime. This is the eternal struggle of the dyslexic, right? The 2 pages of math that take everyone else 20 minutes to finish in class takes him an hour and becomes homework. He is fully capable of high quality work, but that work does take him much longer than average. That's just his reality. Hence, the reason for study hall during the day to give him that extra time to finish up in class work or get a jump on homework that will take him longer than should be expected. In fact, I've seen study hall suggested in most of the dyslexia books as a tool for success at school. I actually consider it an appropriate accommodation. I'm not sure why I'm being subtly criticized as overloading him or causing him stress for considering employing it.

[OneStepAtATime]

Needing that extra time was definitely helpful when DD was in elementary, but at her school there wasn't a block of time you could have put into the schedule specifically for study hall. I wish there had been. You could do study hall or recess. It was up to the child each day which one they picked. DD rarely picked study hall, and I supported her need to run around, take a break. That's important, too. I wish it hadn't been either or...

 

I hear you on the length of time to complete tasks. DD took forever, poor kid, and it wasn't from lack of effort. I remember DD's Social Studies teacher would give the kids these 20-30 word lists. The kids had to look up and copy down all the definitions. The other kids would finish most, if not all of it in class. Poor DD would take hours. It took her forever and was exhausting to her. Having a built in study hall would have cut down on how much she had to do at home.

[Heathermomster]

Maybe, skip the Spanish for now.  If you wanted, you could purchase an easy, easy Spanish CD such as the one used with Song School Spanish and play it in the car. Personally, I believe dyslexics are better served by taking a classical roots study.

 

DS is taking Spanish now at the co-op and scrapes by in the course by memorizing the conjugations/vocab and by parsing the sentences.  DS is a 10th grader, and we decided to push through and see what would happen in the class with the backup option to take Latin with a friend next year.  There is no way that DS could have completed this class as a 6th or 7th grader because he only learned English parts of speech in 7th grade.  

Edited March 6, 2016 by Heathermomster

[justasque]

Maybe, skip the Spanish for now.  If you wanted, you could purchase an easy, easy Spanish CD such as the one used with Song School Spanish and play it in the car.

My concern would be that eventually he is going to have to take a foreign language. If he is going to be with the same cohort of kids through high school, then when he eventually starts a language he will be significantly behind his peers. That said, I like the idea above to lightly "afterschool" Spanish; carschooling has worked very well for my dc in various subjects. You could also do some more serious study at home in the summer. If he is not going to be with the same cohort of kids in high school, and is likely to have an avenue where he starts from scratch amongst peers who are doing the same, then I would opt him out with no worries.

[Heathermomster]

My DS has never studied Spanish until 10th grade.  He is presently taking a beginning high school Spanish class and earning an A for first semester.  ETA:  Between the classroom and the time it takes to complete the homework, DS spends about 6 hours + per week on that one subject.  The fact that other students in his class may have taken more foreign language than him has no bearing on his performance in the class.  Quite frankly, what others students have taken or not taken is none of my business.

 

What has affected son's performance has been maturity with age and the ability to parse an English sentence and then transfer that knowledge to Spanish grammar rules for reading and translation.  (ETA: I expect DS will forget all of the Spanish he studied after his report card is issued.)  BTW, foreign language is not an entrance requirement for many of the 4 year colleges in my State.  FairP, you could call around and speak to the uni admission offices and determine how to legally bypass foreign lang entrance requirements.  Your son was diagnosed at a very young age. It seems there must be some sort of workaround solution, and I don't expect a college to post that info on their website.   

Edited March 6, 2016 by Heathermomster

[Alessandra]

I didn't read all the posts, but I wanted to say that it is fairly common in our schools to have a child take a foreign language as an ungraded course. Kids do the homework (mostly), the projects and posters, enjoy being in the class, take the tests. But there is no grade at the end of the year. I can't remember if the tests are graded or if the teacher just writes something like 'good effort' on the paper. It can be important to a kid not to feel different by opting out of a class. I saw you had other concerns, like time for study hall, and I realize that I am not addressing that. Life is complicated, lol.

[justasque]

My DS has never studied Spanish until 10th grade.  He is presently taking a beginning high school Spanish class and earning an A for first semester.  ETA:  Between the classroom and the time it takes to complete the homework, DS spends about 6 hours + per week on that one subject.  The fact that other students in his class may have taken more foreign language than him has no bearing on his performance in the class.  Quite frankly, what others students have taken or not taken is none of my business.

Just to clarify/expand my post above - my concern is that "High School Spanish I" is a different course when taught to a group of kids who have had no or very little prior Spanish instruction, vs. a group of kids who have almost all done Spanish every year from K-8. While the Spanish I course may have the same name, the curriculum - the content and the speed at which it is introduced - may be significantly more advanced/fast if it was planned with the average student's background in mind. The OP's son could have considerable catching up to do.

[OneStepAtATime]

I understand where justaque is coming from but I don't think catching up if he misses Spanish in 6th will be a big problem.  And if this is a concern at all the child can take Conversational Spanish in 7th or 8th, instead of 6th, right?  And/or work a little bit after school or during summers with some fun conversational Spanish to get exposure to vocabulary.  Honestly, conversational Spanish in middle school will probably be very different from Spanish in High School.  Just having a bit of exposure will help, of course, but the benefits of having success in his other subjects and not getting behind/overwhelmed his first year in this school seems more important to me than taking formal Conversational Spanish in 6th.

 

FWIW, my daughter was in Spanish class in elementary school for 3 years.  She learned nothing.  And in fact it mucked her up for English reading and writing.  If I had to do it over again, and there had been any option at all, I would not have had her taking that Spanish class.  I would have chosen study hall, especially if other kids also had that option, so she wouldn't see it as a punishment or being deliberately isolated.  She would have had more time to complete her school work, which would have translated into more time to play and spend time with family and generally to be a kid after school, and also more time to pursue outside interests.  She would also have been tackling the "homework" before the end of the school day, when she was exhausted and burned out.  Spanish was just one more thing she got behind in and felt demoralized about.

 

Here's my take.  Your child has been homeschooling.  Transitioning to a school setting may take time.  Building in time to complete some of his work seems a good idea to me.  After all, other kids will be taking this option, too, right?  It isn't like you are asking the school to pull him out of the Spanish class to work on other things all by his lonesome.

[Heathermomster]

We are addressing the mother of a child that is 2e dyslexic/dysgraphic, so there is already considerable catch and keep up to do across all subjects.  I am going to suggest that if the school allows an opt out of Spanish at the logic stage, their normal high school Spanish I class is probably not AP level.  At the very least, the school must not be too bothered by the opt out since they allow it.

 

Should the op's student divert energy from subjects which are necessary for life and entrance college exams in order to take a middle school Spanish class?  We didn't.  We opted for a Latin/Greek morphology study following reading remediation to help with reading comprehension and vocabulary in English. In spite of that fact, my DS sits in a reg high school Spanish I class and is passing.  He studies his butt off in every subject, and Spanish as a 7th grader would not change that fact.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2016 by Heathermomster

[OneStepAtATime]

We are addressing the mother of a child that is 2e dyslexic/dysgraphic, so there is already considerable catch and keep up to do across all subjects.  I am going to suggest that if the school allows an opt out of Spanish at the logic stage, their normal high school Spanish I class is probably not AP level.  At the very least, the school must not be too bothered by the opt out since they allow it.

 

Should the op's student divert energy from subjects which are necessary for life and entrance college exams in order to take a middle school Spanish class?  We didn't.  We opted for a Latin/Greek morphology study following reading remediation to help with reading comprehension and vocabulary in English. In spite of that fact, my DS sits in a reg high school Spanish I class and is passing.  He studies his butt off in every subject, and Spanish as a 7th grader would not change that fact.

:iagree:

[FairProspects]

My concern would be that eventually he is going to have to take a foreign language. If he is going to be with the same cohort of kids through high school, then when he eventually starts a language he will be significantly behind his peers. That said, I like the idea above to lightly "afterschool" Spanish; carschooling has worked very well for my dc in various subjects. You could also do some more serious study at home in the summer. If he is not going to be with the same cohort of kids in high school, and is likely to have an avenue where he starts from scratch amongst peers who are doing the same, then I would opt him out with no worries.

 

It is complicated, but basically the school has various entry points and testing and offers multiple languages. Kids divide among 3 languages at 7th grade, so the majority of Spanish kids will be starting over in another language at that point anyway, along with students who enter the school in 7th-9th grade. Students who started Spanish in elementary or who have been at the school since K often test into Spanish 2 or 3 by 9th grade and keep going quickly through AP Spanish, but Spanish 1 is still offered as a starting point for transfer students or others as late as 9th grade. 6th grade language is ungraded Pass/No Pass. Hope that makes sense. Opt Out would be fine and ds could start in a different language or take Spanish 1 later in middle or high school.

Edited March 6, 2016 by FairProspects