How to determine if your kids are ready for an AP course...

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Around here many kids begin taking AP courses in 9th grade. (There's even one school that pushes 6th graders to begin! But we won't count them.)

 

My son has done one online class requiring following a syllabus, memorization, testing, and mid term and final exams.

 

Through Calvert School he is used to taking tests, grading, memorization, and all aspects of testing and course load. The writing is pretty strong although not graded super hard. I give him a lot of writing feedback.

 

So, would he be ready for an AP history course?

[Lilaclady]

I think it is generally advisable if starting young to start in a course that the child enjoys and will work hard in. You can look at the past questions in the college board and see if they are questions you child has some idea about and can work on it over the next year.

Some of the history like world history is quite a lot but American history might be better.

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Ok that makes sense- I think I'll get him into AP comp sci instead for this coming year.

[daijobu]

Ok that makes sense- I think I'll get him into AP comp sci instead for this coming year.

 

I'll let other chime in in case I'm wrong, but my understanding is that AP CS is basically a semester long course that is stretched out over an entire year and it assumes the student has no programming background.  

 

If your student does have some background in programming, then this might be a good first AP for him/her.  Edify Edhesive with Mrs. Dovi is a good choice, and worked well for my dd.  

 

ETA:  It's actually called Edhesive  NOT Edify.  Sheesh.  

Edited February 6, 2016 by daijobu

[Penelope]

There is a new AP computer course that is supposed to be more elementary than AP computer science. Maybe that would be a consideration.

https://advancesinap.collegeboard.org/stem/computer-science-principles

[need2read]

AP classes are college level classes. In my experience there are very few 9th graders that are equipped to handle college level work. When I was in high school in the 90s AP classes were not offered until 11th grade and you needed a teacher recommendation.

 

If your child can write a college level essay, read college level texts, understand college level topics and perform college level work then he would probably do ok. My personal opinion is that the first two years of high school is too early for AP but I know that is not a popular opinion right now.

 

 

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[daijobu]

AP classes are college level classes. In my experience there are very few 9th graders that are equipped to handle college level work. When I was in high school in the 90s AP classes were not offered until 11th grade and you needed a teacher recommendation.

 

If your child can write a college level essay, read college level texts, understand college level topics and perform college level work then he would probably do ok. My personal opinion is that the first two years of high school is too early for AP but I know that is not a popular opinion right now.

 

 

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Well maybe, maybe not.  Certainly there are some very tough AP courses out there, ones that require 2-4 hours of study per day.  (I'm looking at you, AP Biology.)  But there are others such as AP Computer Science A, which is nowhere near what a college computer science course would be like.  And as Penelope pointed out, there's AP Computer Science 1 which is even more lightweight.  

[Penelope]

I really don't think it is the same situation of thirty years ago. I had the same situation in high school, fewer AP classes offered and you would only be allowed to take the class with As in the prerequisite class(es) and a teacher recommendation. Most students in my AP classes in high school did well on the exams. Now, AP exams are being pushed hard and there are more classes offered. I see requirements listed like at least a C in the class preceding the AP-- is a child that got a C in an honors class probably ready for college level work? And are they all really college level classes? I don't know. It probably depends a lot on the college. And of course, many students do not get a 3 or above on the exam. I will not encourage my student to take any particular AP class until I think he/she will excel in the class and get a 4/5 on the exam. As homeschoolers we have more flexibility to make the choices which will best serve our students. Some children are ready at 14 and some aren't.

[mjbucks1]

I think that most parents really do know their children best. If you are having reservations, then don't push your child.

My ds started Algebra I in 6th grade and took high school biology in 7th grade and chemistry in 8th grade. He was working above grade level in all subjects, and acing all the tests rather easily, so I knew he was ready for a bigger challenge. He took AP Chem in 9th grade, along with AP Comp Sci and did very well. He took AP Physics B and AP Latin in 10th, and AP Physics C (both sections) and AP Calc AB in 11th. This year he is taking 3 (see signature). I did not have him take any writing intensive AP classes until 10th because I did not feel he was ready. But, there is no way he could have taken these classes if he was not motivated to do so.

My dd (9th) is studying for just one exam at home this year. She will probably take one or two next year in her area of interest. She would not have been able to copy ds's schedule. The student really must be willing to put in a great deal of work. My ds absolutely loves learning, so AP classes have been fun for him!

[JoanHomeEd]

How to determine if your kids are ready for an AP course...  

When the kid is pushing for it, and you are being dragged along  :)

 

Mine was VERY keen to self-study for AP Cal BC and AP Chem in 8th. I was not keen because I read somewhere that AP Cal should wait and AP Bio was easier (before the format change).

 

But there was no stopping the kid, so what’s a homeschooling mom to do?

1. I figured that by April that year (1 month or so before the exam), if the kid is not ready after practicing with the released exams, we can just put regular Calculus and Chemistry on the transcript.

2. The kid already had experience with the long SAT exam, so there is stamina for the 3 hrs or so AP exam.

So, I caved and gathered the resources. The kid did score 5s on both exams and defied my expectations.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Our local libraries have an entire AP section. We went and pulled out a few of the books, had Ds look through the sample questions, and write a few short answers. Those were compared with what the book gave as an answer. It was a very clear marker of how ready and/or how far he had to go.

 

There are many students around here capable of AP before junior and senior years. Mainly it is executive function. The test is established in a very specific, timed way. You are not openly learning. You are very structured. If you want to put the time in, you can do well. Learning how to study and respond AP style is what the major hang up is. Many teachers also pile on busywork. It can be a lot to juggle. None of that has to do with material.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Our local libraries have an entire AP section. We went and pulled out a few of the books, had Ds look through the sample questions, and write a few short answers. Those were compared with what the book gave as an answer. It was a very clear marker of how ready and/or how far he had to go.

 

There are many students around here capable of AP before junior and senior years. Mainly it is executive function. The test is established in a very specific, timed way. You are not openly learning. You are very structured. If you want to put the time in, you can do well. Learning how to study and respond AP style is what the major hang up is. Many teachers also pile on busywork. It can be a lot to juggle. None of that has to do with material.

 

I agree that being willing to put the time in is a big part of the equation, but the idea that one is not openly learning or that the difficulty of AP classes has nothing to do with the material is a bit of a stretch, isn't it? 

 

How many AP classes has your student taken? I would recommend trying a different provider if this has been your experience with AP classes. 

[fairfarmhand]

We're part of an online school here.

 

For my dd, AP classes did not necessarily go deeper. They just added extra papers and projects to the workload.

 

She took AP Art History. Didn't even try on the test because she wasn't confident enough that she'd pass to wager $90 on it.

 

AP English--passed with a 4

 

AP Government--passed with a 5 I think

 

AP Psychology--Hasn't tested for it yet.

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We got the AP Comp Sci book and my ds could pass it now in 8th grade. So I'm not even sure taking a class would be worth it but if you take the actual class it adds a point to your weighed GPA so I am trying to get him into the PA Homeschoolers class for next year. I think you guys are right in that he should start with an area of interest.

 

We can keep adding one course at a time every year as he is ready. Next year I plan to have him take the SAT Biology Subject test which is supposed to be easier than the AP.

 

So between the two and AOPS math and starting German language, that's probably enough challenge for a 9th grader

[Arcadia]

We got the AP Comp Sci book and my ds could pass it now in 8th grade. So I'm not even sure taking a class would be worth it but if you take the actual class it adds a point to your weighed GPA so I am trying to get him into the PA Homeschoolers class for next year.

There is also the thing about what score you are hoping for. There are some where my kids getting a 3 would be good enough for me for high school credit but if it is something they might major in, then more prep to increase the chance of a 4 or 5 would be worth it.

 

UC and CSU counts the GPA for 10th and 11th, and ignores the 9th grade. So if those are in your possible college choices, you might want to strategize for 10th and 11th grade.

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I did NOT know that Arcadia, thank you.  I guess it makes more sense to put off taking the test until 10th grade then.  ...I never heard that before...are you sure?  I'm sure you're sure, but I want to be sure I'm sure, KWIM?   :huh:   

 

I am so nervous about high school now that it is looming.  My son is oblivious.  Thank God.  LOL

[Arcadia]

I guess it makes more sense to put off taking the test until 10th grade then. ...I never heard that before...are you sure?

Here :)

 

"Calculate your grade point average (GPA)

 

Convert the grades earned in all college-preparatory courses ("a-g" courses) taken in 10th and 11th grades, including summer sessions: A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1. (Pluses and minuses don't count.)

Give yourself an extra point for each honors-level course, up to eight semesters.

Honors courses are Advanced Placement courses, Higher Level and designated Standard Level International Baccalaureate courses, transferable community college courses and UC-certified honors courses that appear on your school's course list. A grade of D in an honors course does not earn an extra point. No more than two yearlong UC-approved honors-level courses taken in the 10th grade may be given extra points."

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/california-residents/admissions-index/index.html

 

ETA:

For CSU

 

"The grades you earn in high school are the most important factor in CSU admission decisions. Your high school grade point average is calculated using your grades in all your college prep "a-g" classes completed after the 9th grade."

 

Also CSU does not require students to take the writing test for SAT or ACT.

http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/grades_tests.asp

 

ETA:

I am going to try to get the ones my kids won't bother to do well subjects done by 9th so that they don't drag down the GPA :lol:

 

ETA:

Not related to AP but to high school. If your son want to chalk up community service hours mentoring/volunteering in programming, there are at least two organizations I know who needs more volunteers.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Arcadia

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Oh man, how did I miss that??  Well that is one more puzzle piece.  

 

I'm tired of homeschooling high school!

 

Wait...I haven't even started yet.  :(

[EndOfOrdinary]

I agree that being willing to put the time in is a big part of the equation, but the idea that one is not openly learning or that the difficulty of AP classes has nothing to do with the material is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

 

How many AP classes has your student taken? I would recommend trying a different provider if this has been your experience with AP classes.

What I meant by the comment is that the learning is dramatically different from openly studying for the enjoyment of learning. The pace is significant. The types of test questions are predetermined. The content is fairly specific. Even down to the way questions are answered is fairly structured. It is not that you are merely learning a subject to a specific level. It is that you are learning specific aspects of a subject, in a specific way, to complete in a specific format. You are learning, but I would say that less than 30 percent of an AP test is the result of what the student knows and more if the student knows how to demonstrate it in the approved way as fast as necessary. Most all of the AP angst is due to the fact the testing and learning is so perscribed. You learn. It isn't that. You just need to learn their way and express it their way. All test prep is that way. AP is just rather high on the scale. That is the hardest part for most every kid I have interacted with in the AP realm.

 

It is the same as the commenter above stating that tests were taken later so their child's writing could be up to par. That has nothing to do with the child knownig the information. It has to do with exhibiting it in the correct way, quickly enough, legibly enough, and dense enough to recieve an acceptable score.

 

My personal child has not taken an AP test yet. He begins next year. But I took a stack. Many, many of my high school students took stacks. I have tutored many kids who have taken stacks (with very good results).

[Woodland Mist Academy]

What I meant by the comment is that the learning is dramatically different from openly studying for the enjoyment of learning. The pace is significant. The types of test questions are predetermined. The content is fairly specific. Even down to the way questions are answered is fairly structured. It is not that you are merely learning a subject to a specific level. It is that you are learning specific aspects of a subject, in a specific way, to complete in a specific format. You are learning, but I would say that less than 30 percent of an AP test is the result of what the student knows and more if the student knows how to demonstrate it in the approved way as fast as necessary. Most all of the AP angst is due to the fact the testing and learning is so perscribed. You learn. It isn't that. You just need to learn their way and express it their way. All test prep is that way. AP is just rather high on the scale. That is the hardest part for most every kid I have interacted with in the AP realm.

 

It is the same as the commenter above stating that tests were taken later so their child's writing could be up to par. That has nothing to do with the child knownig the information. It has to do with exhibiting it in the correct way, quickly enough, legibly enough, and dense enough to recieve an acceptable score.

 

My personal child has not taken an AP test yet. He begins next year. But I took a stack. Many, many of my high school students took stacks. I have tutored many kids who have taken stacks (with very good results).

 

That's not been my dd's experience, nor mine, nor the experience of many others I know. Definitely a YMMV situation.

 

For us, the exam is just an extra. She's not taking the classes just to get college credit. Obviously she hopes to do well, but even if we knew she wouldn't be able to find a testing site, she would take the classes anyway. Our experience thus far has been that good.

 

The format of the test is important, but it's not what causes the AP angst of many I know. The angst comes from trying to find a testing site.  ;)